Author Topic: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy  (Read 32477 times)

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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #225 on: February 04, 2009, 11:42:32 PM »
See what the followers of Patriarch Pavle do? They pray for schisms in the Church. Since only Satan would wish the Church to be torn apart, they must be satanists.

This is totally out of line.  As a moderator I would expect more out of you.  This kind of childish nonsense is so incredibly offensive...

You cry a river when someone disrespects your Patriarch, but then you turn around and say such things about my Patriarch.  I am just shocked by how inconsiderate and hurtful you are being!  This kind of dialogue commands no respect!

Bear with me. I'm teaching stashko a lesson.
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Offline Mark of Ephesus

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #226 on: February 05, 2009, 12:02:58 AM »
He's not my Patriarch...and thank God i don't have to follow him...If patriarch Pavle was to seek reunion with rome i would reject him also,,,and join one that's against rome and any type of reunion.....


I am totally opposed to reunion.  I doubt if Serbia would go that way. They are too close to Russians, and his Holiness, Patriarch Kirill is not about to join with Rome.
Suddenly the Judge shall come, and the deeds of each shall be revealed, but with fear we cry out in the middle of the night, Holy, Holy, Holy art thou o God, Thru the prayers of the Theotokos have mercy on us and save us!

Offline John of the North

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #227 on: February 05, 2009, 12:07:27 AM »
He's not my Patriarch...and thank God i don't have to follow him...If patriarch Pavle was to seek reunion with rome i would reject him also,,,and join one that's against rome and any type of reunion.....


I am totally opposed to reunion.  I doubt if Serbia would go that way. They are too close to Russians, and his Holiness, Patriarch Kirill is not about to join with Rome.

Do yourself a favour and step away from this thread. ;)
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Offline Mark of Ephesus

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #228 on: February 05, 2009, 12:08:29 AM »
He's not my Patriarch...and thank God i don't have to follow him...If patriarch Pavle was to seek reunion with rome i would reject him also,,,and join one that's against rome and any type of reunion.....

Wasn't the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church hosted by the Church of Serbia a few years ago (~2006)?
Well here is the evidence stashko from your own satanic Church's official website:
http://www.spc.rs/Vesti-2006/09/25-09-06-e.html
Quote
COMMUNIQUE
JOINT  INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION FOR THE THEOLOGICAL  DIALOGUE  BETWEEN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Belgrade, Serbia, 18-25 September 2006

The ninth meeting of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church met in Belgrade, Serbia, from 18-25 September 2006, continuing the work begun in 1980 to seek the restoration of full communion.  
Are you going to be true to your word and abandon this Antichrist of a Patriarch of yours? Or are you just mouthing off?




Brother:

He has a point. You can't command me to respect one Patriarch, and insult another......Kind of hypocritical wouldn't you say? (just trying to make a point here.)
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #229 on: February 05, 2009, 12:11:20 AM »
I am totally opposed to reunion.  I doubt if Serbia would go that way. They are too close to Russians, and his Holiness, Patriarch Kirill is not about to join with Rome.

This is all such buffalo cakes.  You should be praying for Rome to return to Orthodoxy, and that this would be the means of reunion.  But it seems as if you are so full of hate for Roman Catholics that you cannot see straight.  I am not saying that the pure Orthodox faith should compromise on a single thing.  But all Orthodox Christians should seek to restore communion with Rome if Rome will recant of her wrongs.

By the way, Rome's repentance is the only way that communion will be restored.  If some other false union is devised, then all the of the Church will oppose it.  But your paranoia and your forgone conclusions make me sick.  Probably about as sick as you feel when you look at a Catholic...

Edited for language.

-- Nebelpfade
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 12:14:33 AM by Nebelpfade »

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #230 on: February 05, 2009, 12:13:45 AM »
He's not my Patriarch...and thank God i don't have to follow him...If patriarch Pavle was to seek reunion with rome i would reject him also,,,and join one that's against rome and any type of reunion.....


I am totally opposed to reunion.  I doubt if Serbia would go that way. They are too close to Russians, and his Holiness, Patriarch Kirill is not about to join with Rome.

Do yourself a favour and step away from this thread. ;)

I second that motion.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 12:15:05 AM by username! »

Offline Trudy

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #231 on: February 05, 2009, 12:16:37 AM »
all Orthodox Christians should seek to restore communion with Rome if Rome will recant of her wrongs.

Amen.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #232 on: February 05, 2009, 12:24:26 AM »
Edited for language.

Not that I question the judgment of our moderators, but I would like to point out that St. Paul used the exact same strong language in the Holy Scriptures:

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but buffalo cakes, that I may win Christ ( Philippians 3:8 ).

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #233 on: February 05, 2009, 12:40:06 AM »
I doubt if Serbia would go that way.
She already has, or did you miss this from the official website of the Serbian Patriarchate:
http://www.spc.rs/Vesti-2006/09/25-09-06-e.html
Quote
COMMUNIQUE
JOINT  INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION FOR THE THEOLOGICAL  DIALOGUE  BETWEEN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

Belgrade, Serbia, 18-25 September 2006

The ninth meeting of the Joint International Commission for the Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church met in Belgrade, Serbia, from 18-25 September 2006, continuing the work begun in 1980 to seek the restoration of full communion.  

Clearly the Serbian Church has fallen from grace and is the synagogue of satan.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #234 on: February 05, 2009, 12:42:41 AM »
Since satan literally means "to accuse" or "one who brings accusation", I'd say plenty of satans are running around in this thread.

Oh, wait, am I also now making an accusation? [head explodes]

Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #235 on: February 05, 2009, 01:43:34 AM »
See what the followers of Patriarch Pavle do? They pray for schisms in the Church. Since only Satan would wish the Church to be torn apart, they must be satanists.

This is totally out of line.  As a moderator I would expect more out of you.  This kind of childish nonsense is so incredibly offensive...

You cry a river when someone disrespects your Patriarch, but then you turn around and say such things about my Patriarch.  I am just shocked by how inconsiderate and hurtful you are being!  This kind of dialogue commands no respect!

Bear with me. I'm teaching stashko a lesson.



Your not teaching me any lesson ,,trust me ,,im so against the vatican and it's reuninon with us.....what they did to orthodoxy thru history...ill never trust them ever....i believe to forgive but never to forget.....i rather have islam than rome anyday...that saying serbs are so proud of better the sultan's turban than the tiera of rome anyday......


Even it patriarch pavle tied whatever with the vatican i know my people ,,,serbs wouldn't follow him in this......
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Online PeterTheAleut

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #236 on: February 05, 2009, 02:04:45 AM »
Your not teaching me any lesson ,,trust me ,,im so against the vatican and it's reuninon with us.....what they did to orthodoxy thru history...ill never trust them ever....i believe to forgive but never to forget.....
No, you don't!  Otherwise you wouldn't keep rehashing on this forum the same bitterness at the same crimes the Vatican has committed against you and your people.  Forgiveness means refusing to bear a grudge.  You obviously still hold a grudge against the Vatican.  That isn't forgiveness.

i rather have islam than rome anyday...that saying serbs are so proud of better the sultan's turban than the tiera of rome anyday......


Even it patriarch pavle tied whatever with the vatican i know my people ,,,serbs wouldn't follow him in this......
So your personal bitterness, not doctrinal issues, is what fuels your opposition to any and all attempts to dialogue with Rome.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 02:06:03 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #237 on: February 05, 2009, 02:15:30 AM »
Your not teaching me any lesson ,,trust me ,
Oh, but I am. I've already shown you that your Serbian Orthodox Church has hosted a joint dialogue with the Roman Catholics in Belgrade with a view to "full Communion" in 2006. There you are! You learned something from me today! Your Patriarch hosted a meeting with Catholics in Belgrade to work towards full communion with them. Have a look at your Church's website, it's right there:
http://www.spc.rs/Vesti-2006/09/25-09-06-e.html


,im so against the vatican and it's reuninon with us.....what they did to orthodoxy thru history...ill never trust them ever....i believe to forgive but never to forget.....i rather have islam than rome anyday...that saying serbs are so proud of better the sultan's turban than the tiera of rome anyday......
Well, clearly, Patriarch Pavle disagrees with you, so what are you going to do? Are you just full of talk and nothing else?


Even it patriarch pavle tied whatever with the vatican i know my people ,,,serbs wouldn't follow him in this......
Then why are Serbs hosting meetings with Roman Catholics in Belgrade with a view to full communion (their own words)?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 02:16:50 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #238 on: February 05, 2009, 02:16:23 AM »
Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Stashko, this sounds like a damning prayer for some...

Offline stanley123

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #239 on: February 05, 2009, 02:22:48 AM »
Your not teaching me any lesson ,,trust me ,,im so against the vatican and it's reuninon with us.....what they did to orthodoxy thru history...ill never trust them ever....i believe to forgive but never to forget.....i rather have islam than rome anyday...that saying serbs are so proud of better the sultan's turban than the tiera of rome anyday......


Even it patriarch pavle tied whatever with the vatican i know my people ,,,serbs wouldn't follow him in this......
I was sorry to read about this problem.

Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #240 on: February 05, 2009, 02:25:25 AM »
I thank The almighty that we don't have anything like a supreme  pontiff on this earth as catholic's have... him being a god on earth for them...that if one doesn't follow him even if he teaches error ,even calling on the name of jesus won't save that person,,because the pope has condemed that person to hell..so nothing could save him....

And orthodoxy wants to join this ,,,God Forbid
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline John of the North

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #241 on: February 05, 2009, 02:28:17 AM »
I thank The almighty that we don't have anything like a supreme  pontiff on this earth as catholic's have... him being a god on earth for them...that if one doesn't follow him even if he teaches error ,even calling on the name of jesus won't save that person,,because the pope has condemed that person to hell..so nothing could save him....

And orthodoxy wants to join this ,,,God Forbid

Why don't you hate Catholics somewhere else?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #242 on: February 05, 2009, 02:32:27 AM »
I thank The almighty that we don't have anything like a supreme  pontiff on this earth as catholic's have...
Instead you apparently have an Antichrist as a Patriarch who leads the Serbian Synagogue of Satan which dialogues with Roman Catholics in Belgrade and seeks to restore Communion with them.

I don't know which is worse.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #243 on: February 05, 2009, 02:35:31 AM »
im against unification period im expressing what i think ,or is that not allowed anymore...
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline John of the North

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #244 on: February 05, 2009, 02:42:33 AM »
im against unification period im expressing what i think ,or is that not allowed anymore...

I think you have stated your position before.....
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #245 on: February 05, 2009, 02:48:56 AM »
im against unification period im expressing what i think ,or is that not allowed anymore...
Oh, it's allowed, but you're obviously lying when you say you're against it since you remain in the "Serbian Synagogue of Satan" led by the Antichrist who seeks reunion with Rome and holds meetings with them in Holy Belgrade to work towards that.
I'm just saying, if you were serious about what you say you stand for, you would at least protest this action by your own Church: http://www.spc.rs/Vesti-2006/09/25-09-06-e.html
But clearly, you just want to talk yourself up and do nothing.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 05:17:42 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #246 on: February 05, 2009, 03:02:01 AM »
Serbs are not stupid they won't follow him in this....we have a good and long memory in what happened and what the vatican did by beatifying a croatian ustasha cardinal....and other things...bishops can try...But they can be thrown out just as easy and replaced...people have the last word in this if there shepherds go rouge...
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #247 on: February 05, 2009, 03:04:41 AM »
Serbs are not stupid they won't follow him in this....
They ARE following him in this.
The meeting took place THREE YEARS AGO and no one has said a word.
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Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #248 on: February 05, 2009, 03:08:46 AM »
why arn't we reunited now ...they know better and what would happen.. talk is cheap but action will get a reaction if they tried to join us with them...
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:11:26 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #249 on: February 05, 2009, 03:14:17 AM »
why arn't we reunited know ...
What difference does that make? You guys are seeking reunion with Rome.

they know better and what would happen..
Yeah. Absolutely nothing. Just like absolutely nothing happened for three years after the meeting in Belgrade with the Roman Catholics.

talk is cheap
Yep. And that's about all you'll ever give us stashko


but action will ge a reaction if they tried to join us with them...
Umm....they ARE trying to join in Communion with Roman Catholics.: http://www.spc.rs/Vesti-2006/09/25-09-06-e.html
But hey, why don't you just give us some more talk about how the Serbs will never allow such talks to take place in Belgrade..... ::)

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Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #250 on: February 05, 2009, 03:23:19 AM »
Again talk is cheap it won't come to anything thank God ,vatican won't ever change because its stuborn,, orthodoxy won't accept catholic's with out change , so it looks to me. we will never unite....Thats the way i like it a hu a hu
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:24:44 AM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #251 on: February 05, 2009, 03:25:47 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HxBt_l0maE

Don't talk, I will listen.
Don't talk, you keep your distance
for I'd rather hear some truth tonight than entertain your lies,
so take your poison silently.
Let me be. Let me close my eyes.
Don't talk, I'll believe it.
Don't talk, listen to me instead,
I know that if you think of it, both long enough and hard
the drink you drown your troubles in is the trouble you're in now.
Talk talk talk about it. You talk as if you care
but when your talk is over tilt that bottle in the air,
tossing back more than your share.
Don't talk, I can guess it.
Don't talk, well now your restless
and you need somewhere to put the blame for how you feel inside.
You'll look for a close and easy mark and you'll see me as fair game.
Talk talk talk about it, talk as if you care
but when your talk is over tilt that bottle in the air
tossing back more than your share.
You talk talk talk about it, you talk as if you care.
I'm marking every word and can tell this time for sure,
your talk is the finest I have heard.
So don't talk, let me go on dreaming.
How your eyes they glow so fiercely I can tell you're inspired
by the name you chose for me. Now what was it? O, never mind it.
We will talk talk talk about this when your head is clear.
I'll discuss this in the morning, but until then you may talk but I won't hear.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:29:44 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline Mark of Ephesus

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #252 on: February 05, 2009, 07:52:02 AM »
My. You are certainly poetic, if nothing else. You can respond seriously when you are ready. :)
Suddenly the Judge shall come, and the deeds of each shall be revealed, but with fear we cry out in the middle of the night, Holy, Holy, Holy art thou o God, Thru the prayers of the Theotokos have mercy on us and save us!

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #253 on: February 05, 2009, 08:36:02 AM »
Are you going to be true to your word and abandon this Antichrist of a Patriarch of yours? Or are you just mouthing off?


I think you need a holiday!!  Patriarch Pavle was my Patriarch at one time, and I have spent part of the Great Fast with him in Prizren at the seminary when he was bishop there.     He is a holy man and this statement about him is way out of line.   I am sorry I clicked on this thread and started to read it.

"In other words, authority in the Church belongs to the bearers of the Holy Spirit, the Saints of God, Who live in the Holy Spirit. Thus, for example, at the present time, the most authoritative of all the Orthodox Patriarchs is probably Patriarch Pavle of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Distinguished by his extraordinary humility and also theological acumen, his voice is the one Patriarchal voice which commands authority in the Universal Orthodox Church at present. He certainly has no political power or riches, but he does have authority - conferred by the grace which dwells in him and is expressed by him."

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/cardinal.htm

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #254 on: February 05, 2009, 08:50:47 AM »
My. You are certainly poetic, if nothing else. You can respond seriously when you are ready. :)

The above back-and-forth is precisely the reason why I was groaning at your resurrecting this thread:
- Despite the conjecture, no reunion has taken place
- Without doctrinal agreement on our Faith, no reunion will take place
- However, many Orthodox are against union period - even if the Roman Church were to return to the Faith of the Orthodox 100%, which is the only way union would happen anyway
- Because of the above point, people go out of their way to tell us how evil the Roman Catholics are and how no true Orthodox would even talk with them in a civil manner, which is a shame, because they (in doing so) condemn their own Patriarchs...

It happens nearly every time this canard is brought up.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #255 on: February 05, 2009, 08:51:33 AM »
I thank The almighty that we don't have anything like a supreme  pontiff on this earth as catholic's have...
Instead you apparently have an Antichrist as a Patriarch who leads the Serbian Synagogue of Satan which dialogues with Roman Catholics in Belgrade and seeks to restore Communion with them.

I don't know which is worse.

George, what on earth are you talking about?!  

Yes, this meeting of the International Orthodox-Roman Catholic Theological Commission was  held in Belgrade.

But it was dominated by Constantinople, by the Greek co-chair, Metropolitan Ioann Zizioulas of Pergamon and his avant-garde approach to ecclesiology which is often very difficult to distinguish from modern Roman Catholicism.   It was so bad that the Russian delegation issued a statement of protest.  Serbia likewise disowned it all subsequently.

We are holding our breath and wondering when Zizioulas will accept a red cardinal's hat and a Roman pension.  :-)  I know some Orthodox who would rather take their chances with Lord Voldemort than with Metropolitan John of Pergamon.  
 
And in fact I'm not joking: take a look at the following article, with a little patience for its shaky English (it was written in Italian by the Russian Orthodox, and translated into English overnight, but the points are well worth considering.) Please note that the article takes issue only at Metr. John's theology, and does not wish to belittle him either from a pastoral or a human/personal point of view.
 
"Does the theologian Ioannis Zizioulas represent Orthodoxy?"

http://digilander.libero.it/ortodossia/Zizioulas.htm
 
I remember how my heart sunk when I learnt that Zizioulas was chairing the Orthodox delegation to the renewed Catholic-Orthodox dialogue which met in Serbia three years back. I prayed that his "theology" would not predominate and lead the Catholics astray. If so, it would all require unpicking and refashioning in the decades to come. In other words, it would do a great disservice (temporarily) to the quest for unity between the Catholics and the Orthodox. My hope was that the Serbian bishops who are disciples of our holy Father Justin Popovich would also be speaking at the Meeting and offering the Catholics a better understanding of Orthodoxy ecclesiology.  Alas, Constantinople refused to attend if Bishop Artemije was to be there and he is one of Fr Justin's outstanding disciples.  Constantinople was afraid of Bp Artemije's traditional theology.  Belgrade caved in to Constantinople and Bp Artemije was withdrawn from the Serbian delegation.  The Russian Orthodox representatives were left to seriously protest Zizioulas' ecclesiology.
 


« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 08:57:18 AM by Irish Hermit »

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #256 on: February 05, 2009, 08:53:16 AM »
Are you going to be true to your word and abandon this Antichrist of a Patriarch of yours? Or are you just mouthing off?


I think you need a holiday!!  Patriarch Pavle was my Patriarch at one time, and I have spent part of the Great Fast with him in Prizren at the seminary when he was bishop there.     He is a holy man and this statement about him is way out of line.   I am sorry I clicked on this thread and started to read it.

"In other words, authority in the Church belongs to the bearers of the Holy Spirit, the Saints of God, Who live in the Holy Spirit. Thus, for example, at the present time, the most authoritative of all the Orthodox Patriarchs is probably Patriarch Pavle of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Distinguished by his extraordinary humility and also theological acumen, his voice is the one Patriarchal voice which commands authority in the Universal Orthodox Church at present. He certainly has no political power or riches, but he does have authority - conferred by the grace which dwells in him and is expressed by him."

http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/cardinal.htm

Father, you should probably read more carefully what Ozgeorge was pointing out - Stashko was saying that he'd separate from his Patriarch if he were to ever dialogue with the Catholics about unity, and when Ozgeorge pointed out that the Serbian Church actually hosted one of these dialogue meetings, he did not follow up on his word, so Ozgeorge has been turning Stashko's vitriolic language back on him to prove a point (that his hatred is dangerous).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #257 on: February 05, 2009, 08:56:03 AM »
Instead you apparently have an Antichrist as a Patriarch who leads the Serbian Synagogue of Satan which dialogues with Roman Catholics in Belgrade and seeks to restore Communion with them.

I don't know which is worse.

George, what on earth are you talking about?!  

Yes, this meeting of the International Orthodox-Roman Catholic Theological Commission was  held in Belgrade.

But it was dominated by Constantinople, by the Greek co-chair, Metropolitan Ioann Zizioulas of Pergamon and his avant-garde approach to ecclesiology which is often very difficult to distinguish from modern Roman Catholicism.   It was so bad that the Russian delegation issued a statement of protest.  Serbia likewise disowned it all subsequently.

We are holding our breath and wondering when Zizioulas will accept a red cardinal's hat and a Roman pension.  :-)  I know some Orthodox who would rather take their chances with Lord Voldemort than with Metropolitan John of Pergamon.  
 
And in fact I'm not joking: take a look at the following article, with a little patience for its shaky English (it was written in Italian by the Russian Orthodox, and translated into English overnight, but the points are well worth considering.) Please note that the article takes issue only at Metr. John's theology, and does not wish to belittle him either from a pastoral or a human/personal point of view.
 
"Does the theologian Ioannis Zizioulas represent Orthodoxy?"

http://digilander.libero.it/ortodossia/Zizioulas.htm
 
I remember how my heart sunk when I learnt that Zizioulas was chairing the Orthodox delegation to the renewed Catholic-Orthodox dialogue which met in Serbia three years back. I prayed that his "theology" would not predominate and lead the Catholics astray. If so, it would all require unpicking and refashioning in the decades to come. In other words, it would do a great disservice (temporarily) to the quest for unity between the Catholics and the Orthodox. My hope was that the Serbian bishops who are disciples of our holy Father Justin Popovich would also be speaking at the Meeting and offering the Catholics a better understanding of Orthodoxy ecclesiology.  Alas, Constantinople refused to attend if Bishop Artemije was to be there and he is one of Fr Justin's outstanding disciples.  Constantinople was afraid of Bp Artemije's traditional theology.  Belgrade caved in to Constantinople and Bp Artemije was withdrawn from the Serbian delegation.  The Russian Orthodox representatives were left to seriously protest Zizioulas' ecclesiology.

Actually, there are a number of clergy within the EP who disagree with Zizioulas' ecclesiology, and I too was a bit disheartened when he was chosen as the co-Chair.  The above point was only that the Serbian Church participated, which stashko insisted would never happen, and in so doing they have incurred his judgment laid out in his posts...
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #258 on: February 05, 2009, 08:57:18 AM »
My. You are certainly poetic, if nothing else. You can respond seriously when you are ready. :)

The above back-and-forth is precisely the reason why I was groaning at your resurrecting this thread:
- Despite the conjecture, no reunion has taken place
- Without doctrinal agreement on our Faith, no reunion will take place
- However, many Orthodox are against union period - even if the Roman Church were to return to the Faith of the Orthodox 100%, which is the only way union would happen anyway
- Because of the above point, people go out of their way to tell us how evil the Roman Catholics are and how no true Orthodox would even talk with them in a civil manner, which is a shame, because they (in doing so) condemn their own Patriarchs...

It happens nearly every time this canard is brought up.


Well, I certainly think that if Rome gets rid of their dogma's since 1054, and the Pope can be "Primus Inter Pares" then I don't have a problem. The part I have a hard time with is WHY CAN'T WE BE CIVIL WHEN DISCUSSING IT?!!!  Now if we were arguing with Latins, I might understand........
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #259 on: February 05, 2009, 08:57:55 AM »
Father, you should probably read more carefully what Ozgeorge was pointing out
Why break the habit of a lifetime?
Especially when trying to curry the favour of a groupie?
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2009, 09:00:02 AM »
I suspect ozgeorge is really Gregory House, M.D.  Or wants to be like him.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 09:00:57 AM by LBK »
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2009, 09:03:42 AM »
I suspect ozgeorge is really Gregory House, M.D.  Or wants to be like him.  ;)
Who is that?
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #262 on: February 05, 2009, 09:05:20 AM »
Father, you should probably read more carefully what Ozgeorge was pointing out - .

In that case, my apologies.  I had not looked at this thread previously and it was George's words about the Patriarch which caught my eye.  Given that he has been so incredibly grumpy on the OCA thread, with me and with others, I took his words at their face value.

But I do not believe that the holy Patriarch of Serbia should be called "the Antichrist as a Patriarch who leads the Serbian Synagogue of Satan."   Such words are really inappropriate, whether in jest or for pedagogical purposes.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #263 on: February 05, 2009, 09:06:36 AM »
Opinion noted.
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #264 on: February 05, 2009, 09:09:06 AM »
I suspect ozgeorge is really Gregory House, M.D.  Or wants to be like him.  ;)
Who is that?

A doctor on a TV show who is incredibly gruff and insulting with his coworkers and manipulative to the extreme in order to achieve his goals (whether it be helping a patient or feeding his drug habit).
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 09:09:32 AM by cleveland »
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Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #265 on: February 05, 2009, 09:11:38 AM »
Father, you should probably read more carefully what Ozgeorge was pointing out
Why break the habit of a lifetime?
Especially when trying to curry the favour of a groupie?

Your rudeness and your snideness really know no bounds.  You have no respect for clergy.   You resort to personal attacks.  You throw around ad hominems.  You break all the rules which are normally required from people who participate in Forums like this.  If you weren't already a Moderator I would push the "Report to Moderator" link.  What on earth has been biting at you over the last 24 hours?  :(   Go and have a nice cold gin and tonic.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #266 on: February 05, 2009, 09:12:20 AM »
ozgeorge, I understand House (the TV show featuring this irascible doctor) is shown on Australian television.
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #267 on: February 05, 2009, 09:15:17 AM »
Why break the habit of a lifetime?
Especially when trying to curry the favour of a groupie?

Your rudeness and your snideness really know no bounds.  You have no respect for clergy.   You resort to personal attacks.  You throw around ad hominems.  You break all the rules which are normally required from people who participate in Forums like this.  If you weren't already a Moderator I would push the "Report to Moderator" link.  What on earth has been biting at you over the last 24 hours?  :(   Go and have a nice cold gin and tonic.

Actually, you can report the actions of any user, from the greenest "newbie" to the most seasoned poster, to the uninhibited member to the Admin of the Forum.  We have policies in place to deal with any situation, and moderators have been warned before for their actions.
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Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #268 on: February 05, 2009, 09:42:43 AM »
Your rudeness and your snideness really know no bounds. 
Really.

You have no respect for clergy.
You have not proven to me that you are clergy (see: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,19559.msg289455.html#msg289455 ).

You resort to personal attacks. You throw around ad hominems
Well you disparage my Patriarchate, so we're even.

You break all the rules which are normally required from people who participate in Forums like this. 
Well, not all of them.

If you weren't already a Moderator I would push the "Report to Moderator" link. 
Please feel free to report me. I've also been warned twice before (Green Dot) so don't worry about that if it happens.

What on earth has been biting at you over the last 24 hours? 
My jurisdiction being insulted (as I explained).

   Go and have a nice cold gin and tonic.
I can't, I'm on duty.
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Re: Patriarch Bartholomew is ready to accept the Pope's primacy
« Reply #269 on: February 05, 2009, 09:49:30 AM »
ozgeorge, I understand House (the TV show featuring this irascible doctor) is shown on Australian television.
The only things I watch are The Antiques Roadshow, The Simpsons and The World News.
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