OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 31, 2014, 01:55:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Allah in Arabic  (Read 25456 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« on: November 25, 2007, 08:30:18 PM »

this came up on the shout out (I still don't get that).

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty), in Aramaic/Syriac Alaahaa.  Similar in construction to Coptic P-Noudi (the God).  It carries no religious (meaning Muslim) connotation at all, except monotheist.

It is premuslim.  It is a contraction of al- (the) and ilaah (a god).  Hence it is never plural (the gods is al-aalihah), nor feminine (the goddess is al-ilaahah, but the goddess name "Allaat" is from a similar contraction as Allaah).

When it is defined by a suffix possessive pronoun, the contraction is broken down and you get, for instance, ilaahii "my God" (like eli eli lama sabachthani) yaa ilaahanaa O Our God, etc.


in shaa' Allaah God willing.  Always said with reference to the future.  Per the Lord's brother (James 4:15) I say in shaa' al-Rabb.

al-Hamdi lillaah Praise be to God.  The muslim doxology. The Christian one begins "al-majdu lillaah fi-l'ulyaa"

maa shaa' Allaah (as) what God wanted.  Said in approval of something.

In Arabic script:

الله

ayy su'aal  any questions?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 08:32:21 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 08:31:43 PM »

this came up on the shout out (I still don't get that).

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty), in Aramaic/Syriac Alaahaa.  Similar in construction to Coptic P-Noudi (the God). 

It is premuslim.  It is a contraction of al- (the) and ilaah (a god).  Hence it is never plural (the gods is al-aalihah), nor feminine (the goddess is al-ilaahah, but the goddess name "Allaat" is from a similar contraction as Allaah).

When it is defined by a suffix possessive pronoun, the contraction is broken down and you get, for instance, ilaahii "my God" (like eli eli lama sabachthani) yaa ilaahanaa O Our God, etc.


in shaa' Allaah God willing.  Always said with reference to the future.  Per the Lord's brother (James 4:15) I say in shaa' al-Rabb.

al-Hamdi lillaah Praise be to God.  The muslim doxology. The Christian one begins "al-majdu lillaah fi-l'ulyaa"

maa shaa' Allaah (as) what God wanted.  Said in approval of something.

In Arabic script:

الله

ayy su'aal  any questions?

Yes, God and Allah is pre-Muslim
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 08:33:27 PM »

Yes, God and Allah is pre-Muslim

And post muslim too!
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 08:43:22 PM »

And post muslim too!

Yes, most absolutely and without reservation!  God always, before, now and always!
Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,328


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 08:53:07 PM »

There is no question that the word "Allah" is the Arabic word for God.  We use it in the Church.  But there's speculation as to why Mohammed used the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam, which also connects the origin of the word "Allah" to a Hindu moon goddess.

God bless (Allah yi barik  Wink ).
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Hadel
IN CHRIST
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Jerusalem
Posts: 275


Jesus Christ Our Lord, King of Kings


« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 04:23:19 AM »

Hi,

Yes, we say Allah now and before. Actually, 2 centuries before Islam. This is a fact. I have posted this before in another topic.

Why is it hard to believe this or understand? With all the hype and media, it made "Allah" sound so evil, but it is pure ignorance.

I speak both Arabic and English, you can hear me say "God Be with You...." & "God's Will" .... etc in both Arabic and in English (both of the same meaning). Except when I email this or say it, I always say it in English because I fear people would not understand and of course judge me wrongly.

Got in German, Bog in Serbo-Croatian, Dios in Spanish, Allah in Arabic and God in English.

I hope all would understand this and stop the judgement.

My brother's friend who is very nice plus good-hearted guy in the Military (however ignorant about the topic) once asked me "You don't believe in Allah, do you?" And I responded "Yes of course and so do you." I then proceeded to explain that all speak different languages and have different names for the same God. He understands this now. So education is the answer.

I thought to share one of the experiences I have had.

Thanks for sharing, we appreciate it.

In Christ,
Hadel

« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 04:26:17 AM by Hadel » Logged

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2007, 04:12:51 PM »

Excellent post. Thank you for the contribution.

Dios te bendiga.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 03:35:40 PM »

There is no question that the word "Allah" is the Arabic word for God.  We use it in the Church.  But there's speculation as to why Mohammed used the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam, which also connects the origin of the word "Allah" to a Hindu moon goddess.

God bless (Allah yi barik  Wink ).


Actually the first time crescents show up in Islamic art is the dome of the rock: their replace the Crosses on the Crowns of the Christian emperors and kings!
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Christodoulos
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 03:53:34 PM »


Actually the first time crescents show up in Islamic art is the dome of the rock: their replace the Crosses on the Crowns of the Christian emperors and kings!

God bless !

I once heared the rosary in arabic and when I remember well, they prayed: Holy Mary Mother of Allah......do arabic christians call her Mother of Allah ?

In CHRIST

« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 03:54:13 PM by Christodoulos » Logged
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 04:11:34 PM »

God bless !

I once heared the rosary in arabic and when I remember well, they prayed: Holy Mary Mother of Allah......do arabic christians call her Mother of Allah ?

In CHRIST
Yes; they say "Ya kiddisa Maryam ya walidat'Allah"

In Christ,
Gabriel
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 04:12:02 PM by Jibrail Almuhajir » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
Christodoulos
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 04:31:55 PM »

Yes; they say "Ya kiddisa Maryam ya walidat'Allah"

In Christ,
Gabriel

Allah hu Akbar -God is great !

Interesting.......

Do you know something about arabian Saints ?

I only know some orthodox Monasteries in Syria and Lebanon like Panhagia Sayadnaya and Ballamand with the wonderworking icon of our Lady of Ballamand the monastery of St. Thekla and I think Hamatoura .....

In CHRIST
Logged
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 04:34:44 PM »

There is no question that the word "Allah" is the Arabic word for God.  We use it in the Church.  But there's speculation as to why Mohammed used the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam, which also connects the origin of the word "Allah" to a Hindu moon goddess.

God bless (Allah yi barik  Wink ).
Here's an article found on About.com:Islam I thought was interesting.  When I was a Muslim, no one seemed to truly know why the cresent was adopted as the symbol.  But one thing is for sure; I enjoy eating croissants in honor of leaving Islam. Cheesy

"The Crescent Moon
From Huda,
Your Guide to Islam.
Is it a symbol of Islam?
The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. The symbol is featured on the flags of several Muslim countries, and is even part of the official emblem for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. The Christians have the cross, the Jews have the star of David, and the Muslims have the crescent moon, right?
What is the history behind the crescent moon symbol? What does it symbolize or mean? How and when did it become associated with the faith of Islam? Is it a valid symbol for the faith?

The crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods.

There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon as its symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city's flag even before the birth of Christ.

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city's existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Osman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five pillars of Islam, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags and it is still not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.

Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims."




Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,990


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 04:38:58 PM »

Allah hu Akbar -God is great !

Interesting.......

Do you know something about arabian Saints ?

I only know some orthodox Monasteries in Syria and Lebanon like Panhagia Sayadnaya and Ballamand with the wonderworking icon of our Lady of Ballamand the monastery of St. Thekla and I think Hamatoura .....

In CHRIST
I don't know of any Arabian saints, if you mean saints from the Arabian pennensula.  If you mean Arabic saints; yes.  St. Isaac the Syrian, St. John of Damascus, St. Symeon the Stylitus(sp?) all come to mind.

Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
ignatius
Baptacathadox
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic > Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,690


My Son Aidan... :-)


« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 04:54:01 PM »

I don't know of any Arabian saints, if you mean saints from the Arabian pennensula.  If you mean Arabic saints; yes.  St. Isaac the Syrian, St. John of Damascus, St. Symeon the Stylitus(sp?) all come to mind.

St. Isaac the Syrian!!! Pray for us!!!

Wa'salaam!  Grin
Logged

St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”
Sloga
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 830



« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2007, 02:02:16 AM »

Unfortunately, this goes beyong simple misunderstanding, seeing as how Bosniaks say Allah even when they are speaking their Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian (WHATEVER you wanna call it) language. They think Bog is inappropriate for them to say, despite the fact that I have brought up multiple times that Christians in the Middle East say Allah...

BTW, I'm guessing this would mean it wouldnt be innaproproate for a christian to wear the Allah necklace you see muslims wear, but I bet my savings account that they would spark a riot in my school if I decided to wear it.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 02:03:45 AM by Sloga » Logged

Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2007, 02:12:42 AM »

I don't know of any Arabian saints, if you mean saints from the Arabian pennensula.  If you mean Arabic saints; yes.  St. Isaac the Syrian, St. John of Damascus, St. Symeon the Stylitus(sp?) all come to mind.



SS Isaac and Symeon were Syriac, our cousins.  We'd have them, but the Syriac OO have first dibbs.

St. John of Damascus, the lyre of the Spirit, composer of the Resurrection service, organizer of the Eight Tones, defender of the icons: for which the iconoclasts mocked him with his Arabic name, Mansur.

SS Sergius and Bacchus were originally Bedouin.  Rusaga, the site of Sergius' martyrdom, became a See, renamed Sergiopolis and a  major pilgrim center.  Pre-Islamic poetry in Arabia speaks of St. Sergius.

SS. Cosmos and Damian, the unmercenary pharmacists: born in Arabia, as were their brothers martyred with them.

St. Abo, the patron of Tblisi, a convert from Islam, raised in Baghdad.

St. Harith (Aretas) of Yemen and the other martyrs of Najran: the Quran refers to them as the "People of the Ditch" (they were burned in a pit).


That will have to do for now.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Hadel
IN CHRIST
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Jerusalem
Posts: 275


Jesus Christ Our Lord, King of Kings


« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2007, 05:45:59 AM »

Unfortunately, this goes beyong simple misunderstanding, seeing as how Bosniaks say Allah even when they are speaking their Serbo-Croatian-Bosnian (WHATEVER you wanna call it) language. They think Bog is inappropriate for them to say, despite the fact that I have brought up multiple times that Christians in the Middle East say Allah...

BTW, I'm guessing this would mean it wouldnt be innaproproate for a christian to wear the Allah necklace you see muslims wear, but I bet my savings account that they would spark a riot in my school if I decided to wear it.


Yes, in Arabic we say "Mother of God" which is "Mariam Ihm Allah".... I do say this when I say the Rosary which is 100% accurate. Smiley

Yes, you are right; I have seen Christians in Jordan wear the "Allah" necklace (the word) in Arabic and a Cross around their necks. It is ok in Jordan, however, found odd somewhere else because of the lack of understanding.

Sad though, they do not say "Bog." My Croatian best-friend always says "Bog."

Thanks all for your thoughts and contributions!

In Christ,
Hadel
Logged

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 10:10:41 PM »


Yes, in Arabic we say "Mother of God" which is "Mariam Ihm Allah".... I do say this when I say the Rosary which is 100% accurate. Smiley

Yes, you are right; I have seen Christians in Jordan wear the "Allah" necklace (the word) in Arabic and a Cross around their necks. It is ok in Jordan, however, found odd somewhere else because of the lack of understanding.

Sad though, they do not say "Bog." My Croatian best-friend always says "Bog."

Thanks all for your thoughts and contributions!      Peace  ,,,   Thats not true ,the bosnian Muslim use both Allah and Bog...just listen to there internet radio Bosanac or Bosanka or Cool Bosna also internet radio Fenjer.....stashko

In Christ,
Hadel
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 10:11:44 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
songul
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: orthodox
Posts: 10



« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2008, 06:34:40 PM »

Hi to everyone,

what I have learned during my stays in several muslim countries is, that many muslim scolars-"ulama" are convinced that the name of Allah is genuine and of divine descendence for this reason the two ll's should be pronounced in a different manner; e.g. "dark".

They reject any linguistic explanation and claim the word God as in other languages has to be translated as "al Ilah".

As I went to an arabic church in the former town I was living in, I always noticed that they tried to avoid this kind of pronunciation.

So how is it really to be?

Songul.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2008, 06:50:49 PM »

Hi to everyone,

what I have learned during my stays in several muslim countries is, that many muslim scolars-"ulama" are convinced that the name of Allah is genuine and of divine descendence for this reason the two ll's should be pronounced in a different manner; e.g. "dark".

They reject any linguistic explanation and claim the word God as in other languages has to be translated as "al Ilah".

As I went to an arabic church in the former town I was living in, I always noticed that they tried to avoid this kind of pronunciation.

So how is it really to be?

Songul.

The pronunication with dark "l" (mufakhkham "honored") is regular.  It is, however, pronounced front (imalah "inclined") near a front vowel.

The Muslims are quite fond of overemphasizing it.  That is probably what is being avoided at the Church.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Irenaeus07
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 204


« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2008, 07:54:02 AM »

Hi to everyone,

what I have learned during my stays in several muslim countries is, that many muslim scolars-"ulama" are convinced that the name of Allah is genuine and of divine descendence for this reason the two ll's should be pronounced in a different manner; e.g. "dark".

They reject any linguistic explanation and claim the word God as in other languages has to be translated as "al Ilah".

As I went to an arabic church in the former town I was living in, I always noticed that they tried to avoid this kind of pronunciation.

So how is it really to be?

Songul.

Well, when I was Muslim my instructor told me there are actually two opinions among Muslim scholars regarding origin of Allah.  One opinion is as you have stated, that it is not derived from any word, but rather it is unique, and second opinion is that is derived from Al Ilah, the God.  And both are valid opinion among the Muslims, it is just the first opinion, is considered the dominant opinion, or strongest opinion while yet the second opinion is still valid and followable.

He is an article by an American Muslim scholar explaining that Allah is derived from Al Ilah. http://www.nawawi.org/downloads/article2.pdf


Logged
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 01:29:27 PM »

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty)

Very close, but what really surprises some Arabic speakers is being told that the Arabic cognate for Elohim is in fact....Allaahum'ma.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 01:29:40 PM by SamB » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 01:49:29 PM »

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty)

Very close, but what really surprises some Arabic speakers is being told that the Arabic cognate for Elohim is in fact....Allaahum'ma.

Ssshhhh! (or Sih! Sih!): you aren't supposed to bring that up. LOL.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2009, 05:46:28 PM »

this came up on the shout out (I still don't get that).

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty), in Aramaic/Syriac Alaahaa.  Similar in construction to Coptic P-Noudi (the God).  It carries no religious (meaning Muslim) connotation at all, except monotheist.

It is premuslim.  It is a contraction of al- (the) and ilaah (a god).  Hence it is never plural (the gods is al-aalihah), nor feminine (the goddess is al-ilaahah, but the goddess name "Allaat" is from a similar contraction as Allaah).

When it is defined by a suffix possessive pronoun, the contraction is broken down and you get, for instance, ilaahii "my God" (like eli eli lama sabachthani) yaa ilaahanaa O Our God, etc.


in shaa' Allaah God willing.  Always said with reference to the future.  Per the Lord's brother (James 4:15) I say in shaa' al-Rabb.

al-Hamdi lillaah Praise be to God.  The muslim doxology. The Christian one begins "al-majdu lillaah fi-l'ulyaa"

maa shaa' Allaah (as) what God wanted.  Said in approval of something.

In Arabic script:

الله

ayy su'aal  any questions?

I'd say that the issue of the word Allah was probably a lot less complicated before Muhammad came along. Yes Allah is the cognate of El (not Elohim techinically as it's plural, but anyway) and Alaha, and it's correct for the Arabic Bible to translate Elohim/Theos as Allah. BUT can the same be applied to the use of Allah in the Quran? I'm no expert of Arabic grammar but I get the impression that the Quran treats Allah as personal name, thereby attempting to make it a cognate for YHWH, hence Allah's name is, well, Allah, which of course contradicts the Bible. And most Muslims interpret Allah as a personal name too, they refer to their god as Allah, whether they're Arabic speakers, English speakers, Turkish, Farsi, Urdu or whatever.

It's good that you brought this up, afterall many misguided Evangelicals are making a big deal out of whether Christians and Jews worship Allah, as they assume that Allah is "copyrighted" to Islam. Not that Christians shouldn't address this issue, considering the revival of dawah in recent years. But since Arabic speaking Jews and Christians have always addressed YHWH as Allah, the real question is not whether we worship Allah, but whether we worship Muhammad's Allah.
Logged
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 06:15:03 PM »

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the recognition of Allah as a personal name rather than a contraction of 'god' and the definite article is not the majority opinion amongst the Islamic scholars and sheikhs though it is a valid opinion that may be held.

The habit of young men persisting in using the Arabic name, as well as numerous Arabic terms (salaat, deen, etc.) while speaking English can be an irritating one and, as I see it, often an example of showing off that is perhaps not so different from the case of some zealous Orthodox who take things overboard by never using any name other than the Greek Theotokos to refer to the Mother of God when speaking English.  I should think Allah is special in Arabic to Muslims because to them that name, even if not acknowledged as a proper, personal name, was revealed to them in Arabic through revelation.
Logged
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2009, 06:51:59 PM »

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the recognition of Allah as a personal name rather than a contraction of 'god' and the definite article is not the majority opinion amongst the Islamic scholars and sheikhs though it is a valid opinion that may be held.

The habit of young men persisting in using the Arabic name, as well as numerous Arabic terms (salaat, deen, etc.) while speaking English can be an irritating one and, as I see it, often an example of showing off that is perhaps not so different from the case of some zealous Orthodox who take things overboard by never using any name other than the Greek Theotokos to refer to the Mother of God when speaking English.  I should think Allah is special in Arabic to Muslims because to them that name, even if not acknowledged as a proper, personal name, was revealed to them in Arabic through revelation.

I get what you're saying, and I do this too with YHWH and Yeshua, LOL.

But how do most Muslims interpret Bismillah? "in the name of God" or "in the name of Allah"? I'm personally yet to hear a Muslim not praying to Allah. There are cognates for "God" in Turkish, Farsi, Urdu, ect. but I've never heard of Christians who speak the same languages pray to Allah.

What is the Islamic understaning of Allah in a worship context, as opposed to an academic context?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 06:55:19 PM by Nazarene » Logged
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2009, 12:13:33 AM »

I say that to most Arabic-speaking Muslims, Allah would register in their minds as the contraction I mentioned, even more so with bismil-Laah where the dark 'l' is lost, the 'a' of Laah becomes fronted, and the 'a' of the definite article assimilates into 'i'.  To the Arabic ear, this sound has less the ring of a personal name, with a stronger 'feel' for the definite article, but in this contracted form, it nonetheless still conveys the sense of identification with the one, true God rather than the impression of indefiniteness that the English phrase 'the God' conveys, and that would be captured in bismil-Ilaah.

Since to us Christians Allah is simply the equivalent of 'God', we do not use the Arabic name when speaking another language, but since Muslims consider Arabic a sacred language of revelation through which the word 'God' has been presented to them, and since their mental conception of the revealed word of God differs from ours and even takes on a transcendence of its own that elevates the language itself in which that word of God is revealed, this may explain why it has been incorporated into the languages of non-Muslim Arabs, to whose ears Allah might sound more like a personal name because Arabic is not the language they speak and hence the Arabic name does not carry with it the sense of familiarity it does to an Arabic speaker.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:19:31 AM by SamB » Logged
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2009, 06:32:05 AM »

Thank you SamB for your explanation. Permit me probe a little deeper:

The Quran claims that the Allah it talks about is the same Allah of the Bible (YHWH). Since the "portrait" the Quran "paints" of Allah differs from the "portrait" that Scripture "paints" of Allah, how are we, who believe the Scriptural "portrait" is the correct one, to understand this difference when it comes to apologetics?

Should we say that Muslims do worship the same Allah, just that their perception of who He is, is incorrect. Or, that Muslims actually don't worship the same Allah as they have rejected the Scriptural "portrait" citing "corruption" as their justification (excuse)?

I believe that most Muslims, who live in Muslim countries, who do not have the freedom to access Christian teachings on the Bible, or even the Bible itself, sincerely believe that they worship our Allah. However just because someone believes something it doesn't make it fact. But what about the Ulama and Muslim apologists like Zakir Naik who do, and insist on evangelizing us? Is the ignorance willful in this case or not?

The Muslim world is putting increasing pressure on the Church to declare that we all worship the same Allah. Western scholarship used to refer to the "Judeo-Christian civilization" and the "Muhammadans" but now we hear about the "Abrahamic civilization".

Where do we as Christians put our foot down when it comes to giving Muslims what they want?
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2009, 05:00:26 PM »

Thank you SamB for your explanation. Permit me probe a little deeper:

The Quran claims that the Allah it talks about is the same Allah of the Bible (YHWH). Since the "portrait" the Quran "paints" of Allah differs from the "portrait" that Scripture "paints" of Allah, how are we, who believe the Scriptural "portrait" is the correct one, to understand this difference when it comes to apologetics?

Should we say that Muslims do worship the same Allah, just that their perception of who He is, is incorrect. Or, that Muslims actually don't worship the same Allah as they have rejected the Scriptural "portrait" citing "corruption" as their justification (excuse)?

I believe that most Muslims, who live in Muslim countries, who do not have the freedom to access Christian teachings on the Bible, or even the Bible itself, sincerely believe that they worship our Allah. However just because someone believes something it doesn't make it fact. But what about the Ulama and Muslim apologists like Zakir Naik who do, and insist on evangelizing us? Is the ignorance willful in this case or not?

The Muslim world is putting increasing pressure on the Church to declare that we all worship the same Allah. Western scholarship used to refer to the "Judeo-Christian civilization" and the "Muhammadans" but now we hear about the "Abrahamic civilization".

Where do we as Christians put our foot down when it comes to giving Muslims what they want?
Interesting that you would be so upset about Muslims setting up their own god in their own image, citing corruption, when you yourself do the same thing.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2009, 06:23:54 PM »

Pardon? On what basis do you make this accusation? If you're going accuse me of setting up my own god in my own image, then provide evidence to support your claim.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 06:39:12 PM by Nazarene » Logged
SamB
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 784

Crates of araq for sale! *hic*


« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2009, 05:13:04 AM »

this may explain why it has been incorporated into the languages of non-Muslim Arabs, to whose ears Allah might sound more like a personal name

I apologise for the error above: I mean to say non-Arab Muslims.

Briefly, in what concerns the matter of whether Muslims worship a false god or God Himself imperfectly, I think it to be a legitimate topic for theological discussion in which Christians may present different opinions.  On the basis that men are capable of conjuring up out of any textual source numerous interpretations, one would have to consider whether (Sun'ni) Islam in the absence of an official church of its own can be said to present a definitive version of its interpretive teachings that we can scrutinise on the Islamic god and who he is (i.e. does there exist something of an authoritative body of any kind that may legitimately present to us the definitive Islamic teaching on God?), and if there exists such, whether the personal interpretations of a good number of Muslims within a particular country or society may divert away from this official version.

I cannot speak of Islam in the abstract since I am a stranger to theological studies; however, due to no personal investigation but simply to my upbringing in the society to which I belong, I choose to be of the opinion that we and the Muslims who have made up the societies I personally have known do not worship different gods.

The only argument with which I am familiar that promotes the false god theory is the one that disqualifies a religion from legitimately claiming to have the true God as the object of worship for its adherents when that religion explicitely rejects (as opposed to merely not confessing it) that God is a Trinity, on the grounds that one cannot deny something integral to the essence of God and still in fact be worshipping that same Deity.  By that argument then, one would disqualify both Islam and Masoretic Judaism (but not the personal conviction of a deist), both being religions that positively reject God's trinitarian nature and the revelations presented by the Christian religion--assuming of course that the followers or interpretative teachings of these religions are even able to indicate some understanding of what it is they are rejecting.
Logged
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2009, 07:12:52 AM »

Thanks SamB, much to ponder. And no worries about the typo, I understood the implication.
Logged
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2009, 01:00:50 PM »

Pardon? On what basis do you make this accusation? If you're going accuse me of setting up my own god in my own image, then provide evidence to support your claim.
I make this accusation on the basis of having seen Messianic Jewish worship, and having had several friends in high school who were Messianic Jews.

First, the worship is non-liturgical, and there is no episcopacy. This is not the nature of orthodox worship. It is not up to a single congregation, a single preacher, or a single lay person to worship how they wish. A god who does not care how he is worshipped is not the Christian God.

Second, the prayers are said only in the name of Yeshua, not in the name of the Trinity. Messianic Judaism, like many Protestant denominations, claims to be Trinitarian, yet upon inspection is revealed to be Unitarian, with the god Yeshua being the sole deity in one part. YHWH is given a nod only as being the father of Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit, if He is mentioned at all, is only a vague power that displays Himself through controlling worshippers Voodoo-style (speaking in tongues, slaying in the Spirit, etc.). Never are the three given equal weight: Yeshua alone saves, not the Trinity. A unitarian god is not the Christian God.

Third, sola Scriptura is primary, and within that, only Scripture in the Hebrew or Aramaic languages are acceptable. Even English translations do not use the Greek name Jesus, but the Hebrew Yeshua. Some tradition is kept, such as the refusal of adherents to spell out God's name, even in English (they write instead G-d). Yet the greater traditions are not, and like other Protestants, Messianic Jews ignore everything that occurred within Christianity between the second and sixteenth centuries. A god who does not speak except through Scripture is not the Christian God.

Fourth, Messianic Judaism recognizes no saints. No great martyrs, no great confessors, no great bishops are recognized. There is no "cloud of witnesses," as St. Paul describes them, to watch over the Church. A church with no saints is not the Christian Church.

In short, Messianic Judaism is nothing more than ethnic Jewish converts to Protestantism, and Protestants who mistake Judaism for historical Christianity. The Messianic god, Yeshua, is created in the image of these people who want to be both Jewish and Protestant. He is not the Christian God.

So when I see both Messianic Judaism and Islam re-creating God to fit their theology, I find it ironic that each side would reprimand the other for that of which they both are guilty.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2009, 05:18:01 PM »

Pardon? On what basis do you make this accusation? If you're going accuse me of setting up my own god in my own image, then provide evidence to support your claim.
I make this accusation on the basis of having seen Messianic Jewish worship, and having had several friends in high school who were Messianic Jews.

Oh so your accusation is not based on anything I said on this forum. So this is an attack on what you think my beliefs are, not on what I said my beliefs are. A case of “paint them all with the same brush”, do you think that's fair?

First, the worship is non-liturgical, and there is no episcopacy. This is not the nature of orthodox worship. It is not up to a single congregation, a single preacher, or a single lay person to worship how they wish. A god who does not care how he is worshipped is not the Christian God.

Did you bother to read the description I gave of the practices done in my synagogue? These are authentic Nazarene traditions which the Orthodox churches inherited from the Apostles who themselves were Nazarenes. As for an Episcopacy, well we lost ours when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE by the Romans and our Bishop St. James was martyred. Don’t you read Church history?

Second, the prayers are said only in the name of Yeshua, not in the name of the Trinity.

Question for you: What is the Name of the Trinity? Yeshua said to “baptize in the Name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit”, so what is their Name? Here it is:

{Exodus 3:15} And Elohim* said further to Moses, "Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: YHWH, the Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, has sent me to you: This is My name forever, This My appellation for all eternity. (Hebrew Tanakh)

*Elohim is plural, the Trinity is speaking, get it? Had I used the LXX, I wouldn’t have known this!

{Philippians 2:9-11} Because of this, Alaha also elevated Him highly and gave Him the Name that is greater than all names, that at the name of Yeshua* every knee should bow that is in heaven and on earth and that is under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Yeshua Meshikha is MarYah**, to the glory of Alaha His Father. (Aramaic Peshitta)

*You do know that the name Yeshua means “the salvation of YHWH”, don't you?
**MarYah literally means “Master Yah”, Yah is an abbreviation of YHWH (see the Targums). Don't you know these things? I wouldn’t know that Yeshua really is YHWH if I used the Greek NT! You might not understand what this means to me, but I’ll tell you this much: Names are extremely important to Jews!

{Ezekiel 11:5} Thereupon the Spirit of YHWH* fell upon me, and He said to me, “Speak: Thus says YHWH...” (Hebrew Tanakh)

*Need I elaborate on the obvious, or are you starting to get it now?

The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, the Holy Spirit is YHWH. We do pray in the Name of the Trinity, YHWH is the Name of the Trinity.

Now can I ask you a question: Where in either Scripture or Tradition does God say that His name is “Trinity”?

Messianic Judaism, like many Protestant denominations, claims to be Trinitarian, yet upon inspection is revealed to be Unitarian, with the god Yeshua being the sole deity in one part. YHWH is given a nod only as being the father of Yeshua, and the Holy Spirit, if He is mentioned at all, is only a vague power that displays Himself through controlling worshippers Voodoo-style (speaking in tongues, slaying in the Spirit, etc.). Never are the three given equal weight: Yeshua alone saves, not the Trinity. A unitarian god is not the Christian God.

I don't know about speaking in tongues, this is certainly not done in my synagogue we don't believe that the “Pentecostal mambo jumbo” is either Scriptural or an authentic Nazarene tradition. Did you know that “Messianic Judaism” is not monolitic? I can't speak for everyone who calls themselves a “Messianic Jew” but I can speak for Nazarenes, which are BTW a real historical sect. The worship and doctrine you describe does not resemble my sect at all.

The three Qnume of the Godhead are given equal weight in worship, that I can assure you. As I stated on the “Messianic Judaism” thread that we avoid calling YHWH Elohim a “Trinity” for reasons I gave, but for your sake I'll refer to the Trinity. It is the Trinity which saves, we understand that just fine, thank you very much, and boldly acknowledge and proclaim it to our fellow unbelieving Jews who still have a “veil over their eyes”, so that they too may believe :

I need not remind you of our understanding of exactly who YHWH Elohim is. Now keeping in mind what I said earlier, read this:

{Isaiah 43:11} I, yes I, am YHWH, And besides Me there is no saviour.

No one saves but YHWH Elohim. And how does He do it? With His arm/right hand:

{Exodus 6:6} Say, therefore, to the Israelite people: I am YHWH. I will free you from the labours of the Egyptians and deliver you from their bondage. I will save you with an outstretched arm and through extraordinary chastisements.

Do you now understand why we celebrate Yeshua’s crucifixion as the fulfilment of Pesakh/Paskha? Just as the Son saved humanity from sin, likewise the Son, the Qnuma of YHWH Elohim who saves, saved our ancestors from Egyptian bondage. You cannot comprehend how sacred Paskha is to us Nazarenes! The Miltha (Logos) may have “become flesh” in the incarnation but He was always with us in our history as our deliverer from us enemies:

{Exodus 15:6} Your [/u]right hand[/u], O YHWH, glorious in power, Your [/u]right hand[/u], O YHWH shatters the foe!

And just so you know that Yeshua is indeed the arm of YHWH:

{Isaiah 53:1-5}  Who can believe what we have heard? To whom has the arm of the YHWH been revealed? For He has grown, by His favour, like a tree crown, Like a tree trunk out of arid ground. He had no form or beauty, that we should look at Him: No charm, that we should find Him pleasing. He was despised, shunned by men, A man of suffering, familiar with disease. As one who hid his face from us, He was despised, we held Him of no account. Yet it was our sickness that He was bearing, Our suffering that He endured. We accounted Him plagued, Smitten and afflicted by Elohim; But He was wounded because of our sins, Crushed because of our iniquities. He bore the chastisement that made us whole, And by His wounds we were healed.

Should we be surprised that the angel Gabriel told Mariam to name her son Yeshua (the salvation of YHWH)? And need I mention what Emmanuel means? Oh and of course that He will return to judge the nations:

{Isaiah 52:10} YHWH will bare His holy arm In the sight of all the nations, And the very ends of earth shall see The victory of our Elohim.

And as for Ruakh HaQodesh/Rukha D’Qudsha (the Holy Spirit), yes we know what Yeshua meant by calling Him The Comforter, as did the Disciples:

{Isaiah 51:12-13}  I, I am He who comforts you! What ails you that you fear man who must die, Mortals who fare like grass? You have forgotten YHWH your Maker, Who stretched out the skies and made firm the earth! And you live all day in constant dread Because of the rage of an oppressor who is aiming to cut you down. Yet of what account is the rage of an oppressor?

I could go on and on, but this should suffice.

Third, sola Scriptura is primary, and within that, only Scripture in the Hebrew or Aramaic languages are acceptable.

Nazarenes are not Solas Scriptura like Protestants. We divide divine revelation into two basic categories: The Word of God and The Inspiration of God, this is similar to what’s done in Rabbinical Judaism. The Word of God is anything spoken by YHWH Elohim directly, i.e. when we see “Thus says YHWH” or “the word of YHWH came to _____ and said”. BTW note “the word of YHWH”, another reference to Yeshua.

So The Word of God includes the Torah, Prophets & Gospels (cause Yeshua is YHWH). The rest is The Inspiration of God and is classified according to weight of authority, the Writings and the Epistles of the Apostles bearing the highest authority in this category. Everything else (Maccabees, Ben Sirah, Diadache, Polycarp, etc.), as long as it’s not in conflict with what is specifically commanded by the higher authorities, is accepted as authentic Nazarene tradition. We only make mandatory what is specifically commanded otherwise we might get lost in tradition like the Phrasisees did and therefore nullify The Word of God. Other things are optional, and yes they may be “unscriptural” but they must never be antiscriptural.

And what’s the problem with us chanting the Scriptures in our sacred languages?

Even English translations do not use the Greek name Jesus, but the Hebrew Yeshua. Some tradition is kept, such as the refusal of adherents to spell out God's name, even in English (they write instead G-d).

This is the case with many of the Messianic Bible translations yes, and I’m personally not satisfied with any of them. There is nothing wrong with the preference of Yeshua over Jesus, Yeshua is Messiah’s real name after all, and it’s just easier for us to make the connection to YHWH, especially when witnessing to non-believing Jewry.  As for G-d, this is an unnecessary practice carried over from Orthodox Judaism, like I said before, many converts to Messianic Judaism bring baggage with them. Anyway God’s name is YHWH not God. But Bible translation is not my focus at the moment, our liturgical traditions are.

Yet the greater traditions are not, and like other Protestants, Messianic Jews ignore everything that occurred within Christianity between the second and sixteenth centuries. A god who does not speak except through Scripture is not the Christian God.

It is unfortunate that most Messianic Jews have no interest in learning about the early Church, after all it was Nazarenes like St. Peter who established it, and hence the baggage of Protestantism amongst many converts. However there is a growing interest and many like me are now diligently researching early Christian tradition (that’s why I’m here!). But we are not confining our studies exclusively the “Roman Church” but also to the Christianity outside the Roman empire.

Fourth, Messianic Judaism recognizes no saints. No great martyrs, no great confessors, no great bishops are recognized. There is no "cloud of witnesses," as St. Paul describes them, to watch over the Church. A church with no saints is not the Christian Church.

Nazarenes do indeed recognize the righteous dead. Though the way we honour them differs from Gentile Christianity, we do it the Jewish way through the principle of “YHWH remembers”. I would love to explain how this works, but since I’m saved for space, I’ll do so on the “Messianic Judaism” thread when I get a chance. Feel free to remind me in case I forget.

In short, Messianic Judaism is nothing more than ethnic Jewish converts to Protestantism, and Protestants who mistake Judaism for historical Christianity. The Messianic god, Yeshua, is created in the image of these people who want to be both Jewish and Protestant. He is not the Christian God.

Since it’s the Protestants who have been most active in witnessing to the Jews, why should we be surprised that modern Messianic Judaism is such a mess? Though I hope from what I’ve written you are able to distinguish mainstream Messianic Judaism from the modern Nazarenes – those who seeking the ancient traditions of the Apostles which have been preserved by the Church.

So when I see both Messianic Judaism and Islam re-creating God to fit their theology, I find it ironic that each side would reprimand the other for that of which they both are guilty.

I would only really apply this to certain Messianic Jews who are Arians – i.e. the modern Ebionites (yet they call themselves Nazarenes!) who only see Yeshua as a human Messiah (thereby denying the Father and the Son), and yes they still exist, see this www.netzarim.co.il.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2009, 06:25:14 PM »

As for an Episcopacy, well we lost ours when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE by the Romans and our Bishop St. James was martyred. Don’t you read Church history?

Logged
Nazarene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Judaism
Jurisdiction: Messianic
Posts: 520


David ben Yessai


« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2009, 06:44:36 PM »

OK you caught me, yes I am a baptized member of the Greek Orthodox Church.
Logged
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2009, 06:56:48 PM »

OK you caught me, yes I am a baptized member of the Greek Orthodox Church.

The death of a bishop does not mean the death of the Episcopacy. The great Church historian Eusebius mentions how the first 15 bishops of Jerusalem were "of the circumcision":

James the brother of the Lord
Simeon I
Justus I
Zaccheus
Tobias
Benjamin I
John I
Matthias I
Philip
Senecas
Justus II
Levis
Ephram
Joseph I
Judas

Judas (+135) was then succeeded by Marcus, who was the first Gentile bishop of Jerusalem. Don't you read Church history?
Logged
witega
Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,614


« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2009, 04:06:09 PM »

As for an Episcopacy, well we lost ours when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE by the Romans and our Bishop St. James was martyred. Don’t you read Church history?

Don't you read Jewish history? Per Josephus, St. James was martyred (stoned by the Temple leadership) a decade before the destruction of Jerusalem.

Then, per Church history, the local Christians selected another to succeed him. And when that one reposed, another, and another and so forth. St. James was bishop of Jerusalem not an ethnarch for Jewish Christians everywhere.
Logged

Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2010, 01:48:05 AM »

this came up on the shout out (I still don't get that).

Allaah is just God in Arabic (only with the capital).  Its cognate in Hebrew is Elohim (plural of majesty), in Aramaic/Syriac Alaahaa.  Similar in construction to Coptic P-Noudi (the God).  It carries no religious (meaning Muslim) connotation at all, except monotheist.

It is premuslim.  It is a contraction of al- (the) and ilaah (a god).  Hence it is never plural (the gods is al-aalihah), nor feminine (the goddess is al-ilaahah, but the goddess name "Allaat" is from a similar contraction as Allaah).

When it is defined by a suffix possessive pronoun, the contraction is broken down and you get, for instance, ilaahii "my God" (like eli eli lama sabachthani) yaa ilaahanaa O Our God, etc.


in shaa' Allaah God willing.  Always said with reference to the future.  Per the Lord's brother (James 4:15) I say in shaa' al-Rabb.

al-Hamdi lillaah Praise be to God.  The muslim doxology. The Christian one begins "al-majdu lillaah fi-l'ulyaa"

maa shaa' Allaah (as) what God wanted.  Said in approval of something.

In Arabic script:

الله

ayy su'aal  any questions?
Hello Isa A Arabic Friend Of Mine  From Lebanon, converted to Protestant Christianity from Islam, I asked Him About The Word Mashala, He Mentioned That It Was A expression, Like If One Saw A Beautiful Woman and said  Oh My God Is This Correct or just one of the expression of the word...In the Balkan Language we have the word Mashala ,for us it means waving or a woman waving,,For a Guy  waving is Mashao... Grin
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Sloga
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 830



« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2010, 05:25:03 AM »

Mashallah in the Balkans when used means God has willed it and Inshallah If God Wills it (Ako Bog da)
Logged

Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2010, 06:32:12 AM »

Mashallah in the Balkans when used means God has willed it and Inshallah If God Wills it (Ako Bog da)

The Slavic Mashala Ona Je Mashala Na Mene [Past tense]...Or She Waved At Me....
Or Present Tense[ Ona Mashe na mene....Or She's waving at Me,The word sound the same but different meaning....[Middle east Mashallah] and [Slavic
Mashala]......Oh well..... Grin

A Bulgarian Girl told they say Mahala ......Again Oh Well..... Grin
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 06:44:42 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2010, 06:37:23 AM »

AFAIK, in Arabic Maasallah means Allah/God forbid or protect whilst Inshaallah means Allah/God willing Smiley
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2010, 06:54:29 AM »

AFAIK, in Arabic Maasallah means Allah/God forbid or protect whilst Inshaallah means Allah/God willing Smiley

Brate Pozdrav....
Thank You!...Hows thing's in Turkey.....You did Mention your Mom Is Bosnian and your Dad Turkish.....
Do you ever Go to the Turkish speaking Orthodox Church, For Holy Liturgy,Or Just the Greek Speaking ,,I watched on U-tub the Turkish Orthodox Church It was really Beautiful....
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2010, 07:50:13 AM »

AFAIK, in Arabic Maasallah means Allah/God forbid or protect whilst Inshaallah means Allah/God willing Smiley

Brate Pozdrav....
Thank You!...Hows thing's in Turkey.....You did Mention your Mom Is Bosnian and your Dad Turkish.....
Do you ever Go to the Turkish speaking Orthodox Church, For Holy Liturgy,Or Just the Greek Speaking ,,I watched on U-tub the Turkish Orthodox Church It was really Beautiful....

Dear brate,

Long time no see.  How are things in your life? Smiley

Both my parents are of Bosnian origin (They are actually related). This is why I never claim to be Turkish.  Grin

I go to the Greek Church whenever it is open. (It opens occasionally though). There is no Serbian parish here. The only Orthodox Church we have here worships in Greek, which I always prefer to Turkish.


Gospod be with you. Pozdrav.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 07:51:59 AM by Theophilos78 » Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2010, 08:02:18 AM »

I tend to doubt the hypothesis that "Allah" is from "al-ilah". Is there any other Arabic word that is a result of such a contraction?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.172 seconds with 72 queries.