Author Topic: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue  (Read 21338 times)

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Offline choy

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2012, 03:56:19 PM »
Ah, I see. But why wouldn't we? We're Catholic after all.  This is what I do not get with Eastern Catholics, and I admit I got caught up in this.  We're trying to be like the Orthodox in terms of our theology on the Papacy (or lack of it for the Orthodox).  But the fact that we're Catholics we should be accepting these dogmas with no ifs and buts.  If we don't, then we should be Orthodox.  It is as simple as that.

And they are heresies. It is as simple as that.

And it is the opposite for Catholics.  That is why I said Eastern Catholics shouldn't believe what the Orthodox do about the Papacy, otherwise they would be heretics from the Catholic point of view.

Offline mike

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2012, 03:57:35 PM »
So why are you asking such questions?

Yes, for a variety of reasons:for one, they are all in schism from their Mother Churches, i.e. the Orthodox, with whom they would have to deal with individually.  For instance, the UGCC is in schism (or rather heresy, but we'll leave that aside for the point at hand) from the Patriarchate of Moscow.  On the one hand the PoM has to speak with the Vatican with the other Orthodox Churches present, as no separate deal can be made with the Vatican that all 14 other Churches do not agree with.  On the other hand, regarding the UGCC, it has to deal with the PoM alone on its status: the Patriarchate of Antioch, for instance, has no business or concern with the UGCC beyond what it pursues in common with Moscow with the Vatican. Conversely, Antioch would deal with the Melkites, Maronites and Syriacs now in submission to the Vatican.

Which brings up another issue: if the "Byzantine Catholics" have to be represented at the Vatican-Orthodox talks, don't the Armenian, Coptic, Syriac "sui juris churches" with which the Vatican and the Byzantines are in communion, have to be represented as well?

I am curious as to what heresy you are talking about regarding the UGCC?  Is it her claim to be a Patriarchate?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2012, 05:20:03 PM »
Ah, I see. But why wouldn't we? We're Catholic after all.  This is what I do not get with Eastern Catholics, and I admit I got caught up in this.  We're trying to be like the Orthodox in terms of our theology on the Papacy (or lack of it for the Orthodox).  But the fact that we're Catholics we should be accepting these dogmas with no ifs and buts.  If we don't, then we should be Orthodox.  It is as simple as that.

Or one can believe that neither the Latin nor the Orthodox have it quite right about the Papacy.  Not so simple.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2012, 05:22:02 PM »
Which brings up another issue: if the "Byzantine Catholics" have to be represented at the Vatican-Orthodox talks, don't the Armenian, Coptic, Syriac "sui juris churches" with which the Vatican and the Byzantines are in communion, have to be represented as well?

Yes, but there is a seperate dialogue with the Oriental Orthodox.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2012, 05:25:35 PM »
Complain to the Vatican.  For one, they insist that if a Orthodox apostacizes, he has to go to the schismatic sui juris.

On paper, in practice if an Orthodox wants to attend a Latin Catholic parish there is nothing stopping them and most do just that.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2012, 05:33:17 PM »
Which brings up another issue: if the "Byzantine Catholics" have to be represented at the Vatican-Orthodox talks, don't the Armenian, Coptic, Syriac "sui juris churches" with which the Vatican and the Byzantines are in communion, have to be represented as well?

Yes, but there is a seperate dialogue with the Oriental Orthodox.

Good point. The Byzantine Catholics have just as much right to be at the dialogue with the Oriental Orthodox, as the Armenian Catholics et al have to be at the dialogue with the Eastern Orthodox.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2012, 05:36:12 PM »
Or one can believe that neither the Latin [Brad Pitt?] nor the Orthodox have it quite right about the Papacy.  Not so simple.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline choy

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2012, 08:08:22 PM »
So why are you asking such questions?

Because I want to know.  Currently I am a practicing member of the UGCC and I'd like to learn about the issues other people see in the Church.

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Exclusion of Eastern Catholic Churches from the Ecumenical Dialogue
« Reply #143 on: September 26, 2012, 01:08:09 AM »
Ah, Peace.
*
A beautiful word for your first post in the Forum.

Peace to you too, dear Joab.

Fr Ambrose (aka Irish Hermit)

Dear Fathers,  Has anything happened in the Eastern Christian Dialogue that would be newsworthy?