OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 25, 2014, 02:33:48 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Teachings against modern technology; an Old-believer-doctrine thread  (Read 4385 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« on: November 15, 2007, 04:24:44 PM »

This thread was split from the "Did Jesus ever smile?" thread, at the following point:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13335.msg185003.html#msg185003

- Cleveland, Global Moderator


Now that you have returned to OC.net, Mr. Alden, do you have any support or answers to some of the questions that people asked you in other threads when you were hear last? 

Would you please be so good as to explain why using shampoo is a bad thing?  Also this ties in with your previous assertion that bathing was bad, yet you did not explain why nor what you mean by bathing (sea bathing? showers? hot water?) nor give any supporting evidence from other sources besides your own authority.  Would you please explain and give citations to back up your opinion?  Thank you.

Ebor
« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 10:15:28 AM by cleveland » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 07:11:57 PM »

Now that you have returned to OC.net, Mr. Alden, do you have any support or answers to some of the questions that people asked you in other threads when you were hear last? 

Would you please be so good as to explain why using shampoo is a bad thing?  Also this ties in with your previous assertion that bathing was bad, yet you did not explain why nor what you mean by bathing (sea bathing? showers? hot water?) nor give any supporting evidence from other sources besides your own authority.  Would you please explain and give citations to back up your opinion?  Thank you.

Ebor

Ebor please don't ask silly questions:
Jesus didn't use shampoo therefore we don't use shampoo.

How can you be so blind?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Sloga
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 830



« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 07:35:46 PM »

Ebor please don't ask silly questions:
Jesus didn't use shampoo therefore we don't use shampoo.

How can you be so blind?

Jesus didn't use internet, why are you using it?  Wink
Logged

Христе Боже, Распети и Свети!

"In the history of the human race there have been three principal falls: that of Adam, that of Judas, and that of the pope." Saint Justin Popovic
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 07:53:07 PM »

Jesus didn't use internet, why are you using it?  Wink

Touché!   Grin
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 08:05:36 PM »

Ebor please don't ask silly questions:
Jesus didn't use shampoo therefore we don't use shampoo.

How can you be so blind?
Does everyone know I was being sarcastic?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Hopeful Faithful
How can there be any earthly consecrated orthodox bishops during the age of this Great Apostasy?
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: In transition to the Russian old Orthodox
Jurisdiction: The Strong Russian Old Pomorsky (Stranniki)
Posts: 206


An Old Faith Flag


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007, 08:08:31 PM »

Jesus didn't use internet, why are you using it?  Wink

I am working on escaping as we speak.

No winking on my part here, I assure you.

Modern plumbing is antichrist due to the petrolueum chemicals and man-made electricity used in its production.

Ten page postings are not desired here, so I will simply say that there are more than enough answers for those serious enough. For a long time the bells have been ringing more than clearly enough, if we choose to hear.

My Petroleum Warning Page
http://MyMartyrdom.com/petro.htm

My Man-made Electricity Page
http://MyMartyrdom.com/manmade.htm


With high hopes for all of us, but with today being worse than Sodom do not expect much from the status quo.







Logged

HIS Judgment Cometh, And That Right Soon! Mark 13:35

If any man be ignorant, let him alone be ignorant (at his own peril). 1 Cor. 14:38

Let us all hope to be found a faithful, loving bond-slave of Christ on the soon approaching Last Day.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 08:14:32 PM »

This is a serious question hopeful faithful. Are you serious in your opinions or are you conveying some form of sarcasm I seriously don't know. I mean I am the chief of hypocrites (I take the lords name in vain, I swear, have deviant thoughts etc) but your style of living that you speak of means you can't live in civilization, I mean you have a website that speaks against the internet? this is Irony in its fullest its like those Che Chuvera T-Shirts. I respect all religions as equal but what the old rite does is so legalistic that it is the kind of thing Jesus spoke against with the Pharisee's worrying to much about the little t traditions and this is exactly what the old rites do they try to elevate little t tradition to capital T Tradition.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 08:16:13 PM by prodromas » Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 08:16:45 PM »

I am working on escaping as we speak.
You "were working on escaping" months ago. Please...don't let us hold you.

Modern plumbing is antichrist due to the petrolueum chemicals and man-made electricity used in its production.
Of course. I was saying so myself to Napoleon Bonaparte only yesterday.

Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 08:19:07 PM »

Hopeful Faithful you have an article about how photography is sinful because of staring yet have an old believer photo on the hyper link? Are you serious?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 08:19:27 PM by prodromas » Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2007, 08:24:37 PM »

I saved a much higher resolution of this photo from Hubble which really has the details of all the surrounding galaxies.
Pretty amazingly sinful here, star gazing that is. (This is on your website) Hopeful faithful I did a presentation on Irony in my linguistics class but you should have told me about your website.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 08:25:37 PM by prodromas » Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 08:39:33 PM »

Everyone, I'm finishing up the script for a stage production about people who rail against the evils of modern techonology and the like, using said technology to do so.  At this point, I'm ready to begin casting.  Does anyone want to audition for a part in Hypocrisy:  The Musical?
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2007, 08:41:00 PM »

Everyone, I'm finishing up the script for a stage production about people who rail against the evils of modern techonology and the like, using said technology to do so.  At this point, I'm ready to begin casting.  Does anyone want to audition for a part in Hypocrisy:  The Musical?

HAHAHA ill take lead role thank you.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2007, 08:48:40 PM »

The ironic part of all of this is that modern literature in Russia owes a bit of a debt to these sectarians.  Avvakum's autobiography was one the first works to use vernacular Russian and really brought individualism to Russian literary thought. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avvakum

Logged
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2007, 08:55:58 PM »

HAHAHA ill take lead role thank you.

Okay, I'll need you to sing this (to the tune of Battle Hymn of the Republic):

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the dimming of the screen
I'll throw out all my software and I'll wipe my hard drive clean
I'll tell the unbelievers that they are mighty unclean
And the 'net will send them to hell!!!

(Chorus)
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
I'm shutting my internet down!
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2007, 09:07:05 PM »

Okay, I'll need you to sing this (to the tune of Battle Hymn of the Republic):

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the dimming of the screen
I'll throw out all my software and I'll wipe my hard drive clean
I'll tell the unbelievers that they are mighty unclean
And the 'net will send them to hell!!!

(Chorus)
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
I'm shutting my internet down!
HASHDGASKLDGHAHAHAHHAHAHA  laugh funniest song ever
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Athanasios
Latin Rite Catholic faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin Church Diocese of Youngstown
Posts: 1,800


The Divine Mercy


« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 10:58:10 PM »

Hello,

Wow! No bathing or shampooing. I hope at least then we could use as many nose plugs as we need.  laugh


Didn't Christ tell us that when we fast not to be like the Pharisees who show it off to the world, but that when we fast that we should anoint our heads, wash our faces and be not unkempt. Hard to do what the Lord orders without soap and water.
Logged

Through the intercession of Our Lady of Mount Carmel, may Jesus Christ bless you abundantly.

Pray that we may be one, as Christ and His Father are one. (John 17:20ff)

A.K.A. - JMJ_coder
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 11:12:20 PM »

Ebor please don't ask silly questions:
Jesus didn't use shampoo therefore we don't use shampoo.

How can you be so blind?

 Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin

I caught the humour here.  Wink

Ebor (not affiliated in any way with "Walmart".  Walmart owns emoticons?  Colour me dubious)

(
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2007, 12:55:06 AM »

I am working on escaping as we speak.

May one ask *how* or what you are doing to "escape"?

Quote
Modern plumbing is antichrist due to the petrolueum chemicals and man-made electricity used in its production.

So earlier plumbing such as with lead pipes (ancient Rome for example) or the sewers and baths of Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro in what is now Pakistan and thought to be around 4000 years old are not "antichrist"?  Or for that matter it just occurred to me that the Jews have the "Mikva", a ritual bath which is part of the practice of observant Jews to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikvah
http://www.mohenjodaro.net/indusbuildings.html

Quote
Ten page postings are not desired here, so I will simply say that there are more than enough answers for those serious enough.

If a posting as something to say, or answers questions that others have asked then such would be desired here.  On the other hand, it seems unlikely that 10 pages would be required to answer people's questions. 

You say there are "more then enough answers for those serious enough".  Well, I am serious in my questions, yet you are unable or unwilling to answer them.  And having read your pages, the answers to my questions are not there, either. 

Quote
My Petroleum Warning Page
http://MyMartyrdom.com/petro.htm


This is a page of bald assertions, personal opinions, lack of historical knowledge and  misunderstood or misused quotes from other people. This passage for instance:

"People do not realize all the things we would have to do without if we were willing to obey God for once and get rid of all our sinful petroleum habits. Basically modern medical treatments would be thrown out the window, including vision lenses."

Now this isn't clear as to whether Mr. Alden thinks that vision problems are caused by the use of petroleum or that glasses are made with it.  Well, lenses have been ground from glass and sent into wire or horn frames without a drop of petroleum involved that I know of.  One wonders just what procedures are classified as "modern medical treatments" and *why* they would be 'thrown out the window'. 

Then there is this passage:

"Before his presidency Woodrow Wilson worked to abolish automobiles in 1906. While president of Princeton University he said, “Nothing has spread socialistic feeling in this country more than use of the automobile...They are a picture of arrogance and wealth, with all its independence and carelessness”."

I immediately noticed the elipses and from Mr. Alden's earlier postings of supposed "quotes" that were to support his opinions I knew that he would, in fact, re-write a sentence to make it say something that the original author did not intend.  I found the passage.  It and much of the other bits about automobiles is from this article from "American Heritage Magazine" volume 54, issue 3, July 2003.
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/2003/3/2003_3_44.shtml

Here is the passage from the article:

“Nothing has spread socialistic feeling in this country more than use of the automobile,” pronounced one prominent educator, author, and social critic in 1906—Woodrow Wilson, then the president of Princeton University. “They are a picture of arrogance and wealth, with all its independence and carelessness.”

Notice the words.  Unless Mr. Alden can provide another source for the quote, he is taking it and others out of context of this article. He either does not understand what the writer was really saying or he is twisting other's words to his own (incorrect) interpretation as (false) support for his ideas.

There is nothing in the article about Woodrow Wilson working "to abolish" the automobile.  It is based on a book about the making of the Model T Ford as a car for ordinary people.  Earlier paragraphs are about how the early cars were only available to rich people, the working classes could not expect to ever own one, and the drivers were a danger to pedestrians and other vehicles. That is the Context of the Wilson quote which is about social resentment and unrest at ostentatious displays and dangerous driving. Then Henry Ford made the Model T which was amazingly cheap for the time.  The rest of the article is about how the car came to be accepted and enjoyed by millions. 

Other bits from this page:

"Sulfur is derived from petroleum and is often used to burn incense"

"Often"?  by whom and where?  I've never come across any sulfur in incense, for one thing it has a strong smell of its own.  Some Sulfur is now taken from petroleum, but that is a recent process; however it is found naturally around volcanos and hot springs and in mineral form
http://periodic.lanl.gov/elements/16.html

"Gunpowder is also made with petroleum products, something which is unnecessary, dangerous, noisy, smelly and messy."

Gun powder is made from Sulfur (not a 'petroleum product' but an element), charcoal (wood heated without oxygen) and potassium nitrate (aka "Saltpetre/peter" a precipitate from such I grant smelly things as manure and urine).  So the source of gun powder is not correct and while some of the adjectives are correct (it can be dangerous if misused, firing a gun can be noisy) those are his opinions and declaring it "unnecessary" is not a belief held by many such as those who hunt for some of their food.

Quote
My Man-made Electricity Page
http://MyMartyrdom.com/manmade.htm

Just an example or two from this page

"There is also the Seventh Wonder of the Ancient World, The Pharos (Lighthouse) of Alexandria. It was said to be seen from 300 miles away and could destroy boats 30 miles away."

This is part of an assertion that the ancient Egyptians had electrical circuit diagrams in paintings (where can we see these?  What source for this information?)

We did the math. To be visible 300 miles away the Pharos would have had to have been about 11 miles high (taking into account that the Earth's surface is curved).  The information I found such as at a site about light houses http://www.harbourlights.com/catalog/2003/hl_pharos.htm
is that it was about 384 feet high and could been seen at a distance of around 35 miles.  That is the first error. 

Next is associating the Pharos with electicity at all.  Its light was from fire and mirrors (metal mirrors not glass).  The legend that it could destroy boats is just that.  For information on how a professor and students at MIT set things on fire with reflected light see here: http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/deathray/10_Mythbusters.html

Then there's this
" There is a story about President Eisenhower and the first computers. He walked into the room housing their flashing lights with cogs and wheels inside them, along with the green monitors. The president asked the computers, “Is there a God?” For a good while there were noises of everything working and just as the president turned to ask Vice President Nixon to get a technician the computers answer was given, “Now there is!”.

Leaving aside that there is not a citation as a source for this "story" and the anachronism of "first computers" (ENIAC? it used tubes, not 'cogs and wheels'; The Mark 1A Navy fire control? it had gears and hand-cranks but no monitor;  The Difference Engine? no, way too early) and "green monitors" (we called them "Terminals" back in the Dim Times) I know where this comes from because I read it long ago when I was first reading science fiction.  It's a very short Science Fiction story by Fredric Brown titled "Answer" from 1954.  The complete text can be read here: http://www.alteich.com/oldsite/answer.htm  it's *very* short.

So this is either taking Mr. Brown's story or it got misremembered/turned into an "Urban Legend".

There is more on both of these pages which raises the eyebrows and caused me to wonder again if Mr. Alden is really serious in his statements, or is making a parody site for amusement.

Ebor

« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 01:35:18 AM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2007, 10:23:25 AM »

I have to ask....

Why is Chess forbidden?Huh?
Logged
TinaG
I am not a pessimist - I'm just grimly realistic!
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 870


If only my family were this normal !


WWW
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2007, 10:59:57 AM »

As much as we're all beating down Hopeful Faithful for his extreme and whacked out ideas (sorry Hopeful Faithful just pointing out the obvious), aren't there some of us who harbor fantasies of living the simple life?  I think as technology has distanced us from the natural world and the slower pace of an agricultural lifestyle, we all get a little desperate or nostalgic for something we don't have and don't know how to go back to.  Yuppies loooveee the Amish; urbanites bought old farms & mountain acreage during the back-to-the-land movement of the 60's & 70's; there are hundreds of micro-farm and simple living websites, etc... 

I've always wanted to live this kind of life, but my plan includes homemade soap, solar powered high speed internet access and environmentally friendly indoor plumbing (though there's nothing that would teach you humility like an outhouse on a cold winter morning)

BTW, Hopeful Faithful, do you mind if I ask if you have children?  Do you think this kind of severe, unsmiling, doom and gloom lifestyle is healthy for children?  What kind of parenting principals fit in with this outlook and if you do have kids, how have these ideas panned out in your own experience?
Logged

On the spiritual path somewhere between the Simpsons and St. Theophan the Recluse, but I still can't see the Springfield city limits sign yet.
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2007, 11:06:34 AM »

Okay, I'll need you to sing this (to the tune of Battle Hymn of the Republic):

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the dimming of the screen
I'll throw out all my software and I'll wipe my hard drive clean
I'll tell the unbelievers that they are mighty unclean
And the 'net will send them to hell!!!

(Chorus)
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
Just as soon as I reply to my latest thread
I'm shutting my internet down!

 laugh laugh laugh
Love it.  I nominate this for a Tony already. 
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 11:09:33 AM »

On a serious note, I do agree that our society uses way too much petroleum but that's more a problem of wastefulness and lack of good stewardship than it being inherently evil. 
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,497


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2007, 11:10:28 AM »

Mr. Alden's rants re: the "evils of the world" make me think of that most misquoted phrase of St. Paul, "For the love of money is the root of all evil" (1 Tim 6:10).  How many times have we heard the first four words of that verse removed from the rest of it by people who are missing the point?  

It's not electricty that's evil, it's our misuse and abuse of it that is so.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2007, 11:15:33 AM »

Very good, Schultz, otherwise Mr. Alden will have to explain to us the striking similarity of his pictured donkey saddle to a Peterbilt or a Kenworth.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2007, 09:51:42 AM »

As much as we're all beating down Hopeful Faithful for his extreme and whacked out ideas (sorry Hopeful Faithful just pointing out the obvious), aren't there some of us who harbor fantasies of living the simple life?  I think as technology has distanced us from the natural world and the slower pace of an agricultural lifestyle, we all get a little desperate or nostalgic for something we don't have and don't know how to go back to.  Yuppies loooveee the Amish; urbanites bought old farms & mountain acreage during the back-to-the-land movement of the 60's & 70's; there are hundreds of micro-farm and simple living websites, etc... 

I apologize for giving an impression of "beating down" HopefulFaithful/Mr. Alden.  I asked him questions in the past which he did not answer but instead did not come here for some weeks. I ask questions now that he has come back and again he does not answer them nor explain things that he as stated as a kind of 'fiat' (Bathing is not allowed, nor shampoo nor chess for example. By whom?  When?  On what does he base these assertions beyond his own authority?)  Meanwhile he posts or puts on his website things that are not true, or are his *own* ideas presented as though they are universal truth.  He misuses other people's words to try and show that his opinions/personal ideas are true and have support, which they do not.  Taking other people's writing and changing it to fit one's own assertions is, pardon me, lying about what they really wrote and meant.  Why should something that is supposed to be a Universal Truth and Dictate from God require falsehood to support it?

I pointed out some of the errors on his cited pages so that persons who read him can know that just saying something does not mean that it is true. (and repeating oneself doesn't make it true either.)  I try to provide links to show that I am not speaking on my own authority, that the real information, other people's writings and true science/history etc do not say what HF says they do.

I do understand what you write about simpler living and agree with that it is a good thing, but then I grew up on Montana, granted in what we call a city, but it is still slower, less crowded and different from large urban areas.  But Mr. Alden is not advocating simplying per se but dictating what he thinks is the Only Right Way to live a godly life.

Quote
I've always wanted to live this kind of life, but my plan includes homemade soap, solar powered high speed internet access and environmentally friendly indoor plumbing (though there's nothing that would teach you humility like an outhouse on a cold winter morning)

 Smiley  Plumbing is a good thing, it has helped public health immensely.  Reading history, the open sewers and general filth of earlier centuries were a health hazard and having pure clean water to drink has stemmed many illnesses.  Soap/cleaning materials has been around for milennia, too. Alternative energy sources are good too.  (Montana has several 'wind farms' for example: clean, and with all the wind we have pretty reliable)

Quote
BTW, Hopeful Faithful, do you mind if I ask if you have children?  Do you think this kind of severe, unsmiling, doom and gloom lifestyle is healthy for children?  What kind of parenting principals fit in with this outlook and if you do have kids, how have these ideas panned out in your own experience?

Considering that his statement against "modern medical treatments" (which I would like to understand what ones he means and why) and that just over a century ago large numbers of children did not live to see their 5th birthday due to disease and infections, such a lifestyle would not be 'healthy'.  And another point that just occurred to me is the matter of food and water: farming is not something that just happens and not all kinds of foods (vegies, fruits) can grown everywhere so there's the matter of nutrition.

Just some thoughts.

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
pathofsolitude
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Immaculately Pure Hesychastic Orthodoxy of the Old Way
Jurisdiction: Unorganized Catacomb Communion in Exile- (the bishops have lost the faith)
Posts: 133


« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2007, 07:39:08 PM »

Hello guys. I respect Mr Alden. I think he is a decent guy who hates the world and wants to be a genuine friend of the divinity. So far I think he is better off than 99.9% of "Christians." Who cares if he thinks shampoo, gasoline, photography, plumbing or whatever is bad? It doesnt seem to me that he is condemning anyone for using these things. If he wants to be a narrowminded ultra John the Baptist type then let him be. At least he's not a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. Why dont you guys go pick a fit with someone who is against the Lord Jesus?

Note of clarification- my understanding of society as evil has absolutely nothing to do with the things that Mr Alden is talking about. Just so you know.

SIDE NOTE TO THE MODERATORS- thank you for taking me off "mute" mode. I think you fellows are running a very fair operation on OCnet. Cheers!


 
Logged

The great apostasy has occured. Get out of there while you can!!! Its better to be priestless than to have a heretic bishop. The apostles taught that the church consists of saints only. There are about 7,000 Spirit-bearers currently in the catacombs.
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2007, 08:05:17 PM »

At least he's not a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. Why dont you guys go pick a fit with someone who is against the Lord Jesus?

So now RCs and Protestants are enemies of the Lord?  Next you'll be carrying signs that say "God hates fags" like those Westboro clowns.
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2007, 02:17:36 AM »

Hello guys. I respect Mr Alden. I think he is a decent guy who hates the world and wants to be a genuine friend of the divinity. So far I think he is better off than 99.9% of "Christians." Who cares if he thinks shampoo, gasoline, photography, plumbing or whatever is bad? It doesnt seem to me that he is condemning anyone for using these things. If he wants to be a narrowminded ultra John the Baptist type then let him be. At least he's not a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. Why dont you guys go pick a fit with someone who is against the Lord Jesus?

Note of clarification- my understanding of society as evil has absolutely nothing to do with the things that Mr Alden is talking about. Just so you know.

SIDE NOTE TO THE MODERATORS- thank you for taking me off "mute" mode. I think you fellows are running a very fair operation on OCnet. Cheers!


 

Narrow minded? Are you sure your not playing the part of a particular pot?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2007, 12:58:21 PM »

So far I think he is better off than 99.9% of "Christians."

Well, since I suspect that you don't personally *know* "99.9% of Christians" nor Mr. Alden (though that is possible that you have met him in RL) there may not be many facts behind this assessment.

Quote
Who cares if he thinks shampoo, gasoline, photography, plumbing or whatever is bad? It doesnt seem to me that he is condemning anyone for using these things.

If you read some of his posts here or the pages at his website he *does* condemn their use by others. His particular bete noirs are, if his writings are sincere rather then an elaborate parody, supposed to apply to everyone.  Therefore no Christian should use shampoo or bathe, or use electricity etc.  He makes these declarations without any authority beyond his own word.  When he does give a citation or quote, there has been a pattern of changing other people's words and/or taking them out of context to make them appear to support his pet opinions.  I have found a number of cases where he did this.  To change and use other people's words that way is not being truthful, it is lying about the other people's thoughts and ideas and opinions. 

If a idea is true, why should it have lies for support?

There then are the flat-out mistakes and errors in some of his writing.  Just because something is in print or on the 'net doesn't make it True nor is it necessarily false either.  That is where discernment and study and supporting information come in. 

Quote
If he wants to be a narrowminded ultra John the Baptist type then let him be. At least he's not a Roman Catholic or a Protestant. Why dont you guys go pick a fit with someone who is against the Lord Jesus?

Ah, but this is not a case of people going to his site and harassing *him*.  He has come here, posted statements and opinions and assertions of things as fact, yet he does not back them up.  He has made statements against canonical EO.  He ignores questions and requests for explanations and backup materials to his opinions. He repeats himself as though the mere repetition will make something true. 

<ignoring the shots against other Christians>

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
pathofsolitude
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Immaculately Pure Hesychastic Orthodoxy of the Old Way
Jurisdiction: Unorganized Catacomb Communion in Exile- (the bishops have lost the faith)
Posts: 133


« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2007, 02:22:43 PM »

Hi Ebor. I must say that you give the most detailed and exacting posts that I have ever seen on any forum. You can take that as a compliment I guess.

In regards to our friend Mr Alden-
I think his program is more funny than harmful. Actually I would be willing to bet most of my money that he is actually playing a joke on us. He says that gasoline and photography are evil. Yet his profile image is a picture of him driving a van! Why would he pick this particular picture otherwise? Understand that I'm not trying to attack him here like other people are doing. People like you, Ebor, are taking him seriously. I am only pointing out whats going on.

Is he explicitly condemning people to hell? I havent seen it yet. You guys think that simply recognizing that people are sinners is a violation of Jesus' command to not judge. The Lord was using a teaching device called a "progressive overstatement" which was not meant to be taken literally.

Anyways Old Believers are Christians. I respect them more than most "Christians" that I have met. Lets use our time wisely.

Logged

The great apostasy has occured. Get out of there while you can!!! Its better to be priestless than to have a heretic bishop. The apostles taught that the church consists of saints only. There are about 7,000 Spirit-bearers currently in the catacombs.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2007, 08:06:46 PM »

Pathofsolitude as a young man who thoroughly enjoy pranking people ala Borat style (I make wild ethnic allegation in my predominately white town to people who think I am being serious and out of not trying to offend me they concede to my requests trust me its funnier than it sounds) and I whole heartedly agree that if Mr. Alden's site is a parody I respect this man beyond belief but my BS detector doesn't seem to be reading anything which worries me that he is actually genuine.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2007, 05:11:19 PM »

Hi Ebor. I must say that you give the most detailed and exacting posts that I have ever seen on any forum. You can take that as a compliment I guess.

Thank you. I try.  Smiley

(Perhaps it is not surprising that my "What Star Trek Character are You? Quiz result was "Spock/Data"  Wink )


Quote
In regards to our friend Mr Alden-
I think his program is more funny than harmful. Actually I would be willing to bet most of my money that he is actually playing a joke on us. He says that gasoline and photography are evil. Yet his profile image is a picture of him driving a van! Why would he pick this particular picture otherwise? Understand that I'm not trying to attack him here like other people are doing. People like you, Ebor, are taking him seriously. I am only pointing out whats going on.

There has been some speculation that he is, indeed, doing a parody site and in his postings.  But the truth is not known.  And if it is indeed parody, one wonders at the misuse and misquoting of others in supposed support of the "parody" opinions.    I would also submit that disagreeing with someone and asking them to support their statements is not the same thing as "attacking" them.

Quote
Is he explicitly condemning people to hell? I havent seen it yet.

Have you visited his site "MyMartyrdom" and read all of his pages?

Ebor
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 05:12:16 PM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Entscheidungsproblem
Formerly Friul & Nebelpfade
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Machine God
Posts: 4,495



WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2007, 09:39:28 PM »

I have to ask....

Why is Chess forbidden?Huh?

It has been banned in Eastern and South Eastern Europe, especially Russia, a bunch of times throughout history.  A few times in Western Europe too.  I think the reasoning was it was a heathen game, others said it brought on the plague, etc.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 09:39:56 PM by Friul » Logged

As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2007, 11:13:22 PM »

Better Chess than Grand Theft Auto. At least the former gets the kids to use their minds.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2007, 04:24:28 AM »

Better Chess than Grand Theft Auto. At least the former gets the kids to use their minds.

Mr.Y im sorry but I disagree I'm sure I will be in a position of stealing a car in my life as opposed to making a logical decision  Grin
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2007, 03:28:34 PM »

Nice.  Cheesy
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,442



« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2007, 01:33:24 PM »

Mr.Y im sorry but I disagree I'm sure I will be in a position of stealing a car in my life as opposed to making a logical decision  Grin

 Cheesy No, no! that is not logical!   Wink

Says one of the forum 'vulcans', but in that case I probably shouldn't be using any emoticons.  Grin

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Tags: Old Believers Troll 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.152 seconds with 64 queries.