Author Topic: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)  (Read 927 times)

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Offline Nephi

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Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« on: March 19, 2014, 01:32:21 AM »
So I just stumbled onto something offered at a local Catholic parish. They had two things listed for their weekday services, "Mass" and this thing called a "Communion Service." I was confused so needless to say I did a Google search. I found this:

Quote
What is a Communion service? I think our parish is rather typical of what parishes are doing across the country. In our parish, for example, on days when the pastor is absent, the pastoral associate, Sister Jane, leads a Communion service. She calls the assembly together with the Sign of the Cross and a prayer. Then she (or another member of the parish) reads the Scripture passages assigned to the Mass for the day. Sister Jane then says a prayer thanking Christ for the gift of the Eucharist. Everyone recites the Lord—s Prayer. Then Sister distributes holy Communion with hosts consecrated at a previous Mass and taken from the tabernacle. She concludes the service with a prayer.

Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all. Although not entirely related, it reminds me of a lay classmate of mine that once talked about how a priest gave him a host to carry around until he got the chance to give it to someone who couldn't make it to Mass.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 01:35:48 AM by Nephi »

Offline WUnland

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 02:06:58 AM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 02:11:30 AM by WUnland »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 11:03:08 AM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

Quote
Although not entirely related, it reminds me of a lay classmate of mine that once talked about how a priest gave him a host to carry around until he got the chance to give it to someone who couldn't make it to Mass.

Ugh.  At that point, why not just put it in an envelope and send it through the mail? 
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 05:11:59 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 06:15:15 PM »
It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option. 

Is there a reason, then, why they created a Communion Service format if the LOH is also an option?  For example, is the Communion Service just a matter of omitting certain sections from the order of Mass as printed in the missalette whereas the LOH requires a whole other set of books? 

Quote
It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

I was aware of both the option and its rarity (I attended one once, but only one, and it was a special occasion).  I always thought it was unfortunate that even this way of incorporating the LOH into parish life was so unknown.  In most places with which I'm familiar, if the LOH is a part of parish life, it's because the early bird prayer group that meets to say the Rosary before Saturday morning Mass bought a few books and learned how to do it on their own. 
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 06:30:57 PM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland

Why does this sound sooooo Protestant to me.......you know the Evangelical style Protestantism....?

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 06:35:20 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

Offline WUnland

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 07:57:59 PM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland

Why does this sound sooooo Protestant to me.......you know the Evangelical style Protestantism....?

Indeed it IS VERY protestant at least to my mind, that is why I avoid them.  It certainly IS a "replacement mass" as it follows the same order. That said the entire Novus Ordo culture is protestant so really no surprise.  Here in Japan they have watered down the liturgy so much that it is unrecognizable.  I was told that the Japanese would not understand such "western" concepts as guilt and sin so those terms have been redacted.  I asked some of my parish members if they had ever confessed, and nobody ever had.  Just before Easter they have some weird protestant like "reconciliation" service where everyone lines up and  whispers to the priest his misdeed, then everyone gathers in little groups and bless each other and pray for their forgiveness, and a general absolution is given.  I believe that this is totally illicit, even by Catholic standards, but the church here does things its own way.

I live here and really have no choice.  There is NO traditional rite anywhere in the country, and a lot of parishes were going Neocat because of the Filipino base until the Bishops here outlawed it.  When I first came to this forum I was looking towards Orthodoxy, but that too is very scarce here which makes honest inquiry impossible.  The closest community is 2 hours by train away, so I do my best with what is available. At least my priest was trained pre VatII so he does accept my requests for personal confession and doesn't get excited when I call the "Liturgy services" the "phony mass", which he knows that I avoid.

I cringe sometimes at the direction my church is headed. I come from a protestant background, and it seems that as the years go by I am returning to the same type of practice that I left through no choice of my own,  at least in the public representation of the liturgy.

W.Unland
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 08:05:43 PM by WUnland »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 08:10:24 PM »
Quote
I was told that the Japanese would not understand such "western" concepts as guilt and sin so those terms have been redacted.

Of course they wouldn't. Though, there is a Japanese word, 罪 (つみ) that is usually translated as 'sin' in English.
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline Nephi

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 08:10:55 PM »
Ugh.  At that point, why not just put it in an envelope and send it through the mail? 

Jesuits. ;)

Offline Nephi

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 08:12:37 PM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 08:26:36 PM »
Is there a reason, then, why they created a Communion Service format if the LOH is also an option?  For example, is the Communion Service just a matter of omitting certain sections from the order of Mass as printed in the missalette whereas the LOH requires a whole other set of books?

They really didn't have to create anything.  It is simply the Liturgy of the Word from Mass (minus the priests blessings) with the Rite for Communion outside Mass added, so yes I would think not needing books was a motivator.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 08:32:20 PM by Deacon Lance »
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 08:28:56 PM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

No.  No priest, no Mass.  One could have Vespers or Lauds with the Rite for communion outside Mass.  And really this shouldn't make you cringe because this is really what Presanctified Liturgy is.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 08:30:52 PM by Deacon Lance »
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 08:35:06 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

What do you think Typica with Communion is? 
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 09:03:22 PM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland

Why does this sound sooooo Protestant to me.......you know the Evangelical style Protestantism....?

Because your not well read.  This is actually very Orthodox.  Typica is the old Palestinian monastic rite for Communion when no priest was around.  Typica with Communion and this service are similar.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 09:07:54 PM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland

Why does this sound sooooo Protestant to me.......you know the Evangelical style Protestantism....?

Because your not well read.  This is actually very Orthodox.  Typica is the old Palestinian monastic rite for Communion when no priest was around.  Typica with Communion and this service are similar.

Did hermits in deserts use the Typica?

If so, did the Monks of St. Benedict have a typica?
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος
ἐλέησον ἡμας

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 09:15:08 PM »
I cringe sometimes at the direction my church is headed. I come from a protestant background, and it seems that as the years go by I am returning to the same type of practice that I left through no choice of my own,  at least in the public representation of the liturgy.

Many people seem to have similar experiences in other denominations as well, where they say things like: "I didn't leave my church, my church left me." Orthodoxy seems to have avoided this thus far, by God's grace. May it stay so.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 09:26:28 PM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

No.  No priest, no Mass.  One could have Vespers or Lauds with the Rite for communion outside Mass.  And really this shouldn't make you cringe because this is really what Presanctified Liturgy is.

If the "Communion Service" was done with a priest or at least a deacon, like a Presanctified Liturgy, I wouldn't have even started this thread. Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers make me cringe as it is, so this is just icing on the cringe-cake.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 09:55:46 PM »
Unfortunately yes I have experienced a "service".  Here in Japan we have 5 priests for every 7 parishes so once a month there is no priest available to celebrate mass.  When the priest is not available a lay person leads the service which mimics the mass up to the  readings but stops after the gospel.  After the gospel someone will give a personal faith experience speech after which Extraordinary Ministers will distribute pre-consecrated communion keeps since the last consecration a week earlier.  There is no daily mass here except for religious sisters at their convent, and those are not available to the laity.

The lay person leading the service does so from the pews and not the sanctuary, so there is no make believe priest.  Same banal songs as mass though.

I hate these things and try to avoid them by travelling to the next town on my parish "service" Sunday if a mass is available there.

I imagine it is much the same elsewhere. I understand why they are necessary here.  This is an non-religious country and most of the priests are elderly foreign missionaries, mine a 72 year old priest from Ireland who has been here for 40+ years. There just aren't any vocations, and the days of Irish missions are long gone.

W.Unland

Why does this sound sooooo Protestant to me.......you know the Evangelical style Protestantism....?

Because your not well read.  This is actually very Orthodox.  Typica is the old Palestinian monastic rite for Communion when no priest was around.  Typica with Communion and this service are similar.

Did hermits in deserts use the Typica?

If so, did the Monks of St. Benedict have a typica?
St Sabbas' monastery was a blend of cenobitic and eremitcal life, for Great Lent the monks would retire to caves in the desert.  He also did not allow monks to be ordained.  So several factors were at play that led to the development of a Communion service.

St. Benedict, on the other hand wrote a cenobitic rule.  He also did not object to monks being ordained nor did the Roman Church have aliturgical days so there would have been no need.

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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 11:44:50 PM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

No.  No priest, no Mass.  One could have Vespers or Lauds with the Rite for communion outside Mass.  And really this shouldn't make you cringe because this is really what Presanctified Liturgy is.

Then why the distribution of Our Lords Body if this is not a Rite of Communion?  Why is the RCC allowing this sort of practice to continue?  Is this a rogue practice ?   As a RC I would never attend such a service.....

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 11:46:03 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

What do you think Typica with Communion is? 

We  have not typical with communion......   Do you?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 11:56:52 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

What do you think Typica with Communion is? 

We  have not typical with communion......   Do you?

Yes.  As do the Antiochians and ACROD, I think OCA allows this as well.
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 11:58:01 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

What do you think Typica with Communion is? 

We  have not typical with communion......   Do you?

Yes.  As do the Antiochians and ACROD, I think OCA allows this as well.
Communion is only distributed at Liturgy or the Presanctified Liturgies......

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 11:58:08 PM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

No.  No priest, no Mass.  One could have Vespers or Lauds with the Rite for communion outside Mass.  And really this shouldn't make you cringe because this is really what Presanctified Liturgy is.

Then why the distribution of Our Lords Body if this is not a Rite of Communion?  Why is the RCC allowing this sort of practice to continue?  Is this a rogue practice ?   As a RC I would never attend such a service.....
It is a Communion Rite.  
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 11:59:38 PM »
Anyone ever had any experience with this or have any thoughts on it? Seems rather strange that a non-clergy can distribute the Eucharist in a service without any clergy (priest, deacon, etc.) present at all.

I've never witnessed one of these, but I don't understand why they bothered to create a "Sunday Service in the Absence of a Priest" or whatever they call it when they have something called "The Liturgy of the Hours".  It shouldn't have been so difficult to add the Sunday readings into a Lauds or a Vespers and tack on Communion toward the end (if this is an absolute must), after the Lord's Prayer.   

That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

In Orthodoxy, a "Reader's service" is usually done when a Liturgy is not possible, BUT a big BUT here, Communion is NOT distributed.   The parishioners recognize that this is not a replacement for the Liturgy but only a way of gathering the parish in one place for communal prayer.   A wiser choice than trying to imitate a Mass communion et al.  Just something not quite right about this...

What do you think Typica with Communion is? 

We  have not typical with communion......   Do you?

Yes.  As do the Antiochians and ACROD, I think OCA allows this as well.
Communion is only distributed at Liturgy or the Presanctified Liturgies......
I am pretty sure OCA people here have stated their bishops allow it.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2014, 12:00:33 AM »
Communion is only distributed at Liturgy or the Presanctified Liturgies......

Not quite.

Quote
in some jurisdictions, it can also be a service led by a deacon which includes the distribution of Holy Communion.

[...]

This Typika service is a form of Pre-Sanctified Liturgy held by a deacon and authorized by the local bishop when a priest is unavailable. The deacon distributes communion to the faithful present at the service. It should be noted that while this service is blessed in some jurisdictions, it is not universally accepted, nor is it of ancient origin. However, the idea of deacons bringing communion to those unable to attend the Liturgy is an ancient custom, and so it can be argued that the ancient custom provides the basis for this more recent practice.

However, the important part is that it is still a deacon leading the service and distributing the Communion, not a layperson.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 12:01:16 AM by Nephi »

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2014, 12:03:02 AM »
That is actually an option.  It is also an option to have a Vesperal/Laudinal Mass, but it is rarely done.

Can a Vesperal Mass also be done without a priest/deacon? As much as I love Catholics and am around them regularly, this sort of thing just makes me cringe.

No.  No priest, no Mass.  One could have Vespers or Lauds with the Rite for communion outside Mass.  And really this shouldn't make you cringe because this is really what Presanctified Liturgy is.

Then why the distribution of Our Lords Body if this is not a Rite of Communion?  Why is the RCC allowing this sort of practice to continue?  Is this a rogue practice ?   As a RC I would never attend such a service.....
It is a Communion Rite.  
In Orthodoxy , I would not be too sure of this......

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2014, 12:06:47 AM »
Communion is only distributed at Liturgy or the Presanctified Liturgies......

Not quite.

Quote
in some jurisdictions, it can also be a service led by a deacon which includes the distribution of Holy Communion.

[...]

This Typika service is a form of Pre-Sanctified Liturgy held by a deacon and authorized by the local bishop when a priest is unavailable. The deacon distributes communion to the faithful present at the service. It should be noted that while this service is blessed in some jurisdictions, it is not universally accepted, nor is it of ancient origin. However, the idea of deacons bringing communion to those unable to attend the Liturgy is an ancient custom, and so it can be argued that the ancient custom provides the basis for this more recent practice.

However, the important part is that it is still a deacon leading the service and distributing the Communion, not a layperson.

Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 12:14:45 AM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 12:24:58 AM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 
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Offline Reader KevinAndrew

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2014, 06:16:39 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2014, 06:48:04 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?
Absolutely incorrect.  From the website of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese of Wichita:
http://www.dowama.org/sites/docs/SVCTypika_No_Priest.pdf
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2014, 06:53:49 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?
Absolutely incorrect.  From the website of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese of Wichita:
http://www.dowama.org/sites/docs/SVCTypika_No_Priest.pdf

You still cannot distribute Holy Communion without a deacon present, according to that document.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2014, 06:59:21 PM »
Ugh.  At that point, why not just put it in an envelope and send it through the mail?  


Sure< ... Why not send a personal letter to the Metropolitan? ... Please do that. Make the case for an appeal.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 06:59:58 PM by WPM »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2014, 07:19:53 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?
Absolutely incorrect.  From the website of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese of Wichita:
http://www.dowama.org/sites/docs/SVCTypika_No_Priest.pdf

You still cannot distribute Holy Communion without a deacon present, according to that document.
Reader Kevin claimed Communion wasn't distributed at all. 
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Offline Reader KevinAndrew

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2014, 10:09:21 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?
Absolutely incorrect.  From the website of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese of Wichita:
http://www.dowama.org/sites/docs/SVCTypika_No_Priest.pdf

You still cannot distribute Holy Communion without a deacon present, according to that document.
Reader Kevin claimed Communion wasn't distributed at all. 
With no priest or deacon, no

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Catholic "Communion Service" (not Mass)
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2014, 06:56:12 PM »
Yes but the service itself began of necessity so non-ordained monks could commune.

The EO practice of Typika with Communion? It seems that having at least a deacon is an integral part, unless I'm missing something.

IIRC, Typica originally developed as Fr Lance describes, but eventually Communion dropped out as self-communing dropped out.  That Communion has been reintroduced in certain contexts is fairly recent. 

In the Eastern Rite of the Antiochian Church typica is always sans Communion. It's a lay service, as you know, when no priest or deacon are available. So when or where has reintroduction of Communion taken place? I don't even see where it's even an option to add in the rubrics. Would this reintroduction be some homemade, fused together service?
Absolutely incorrect.  From the website of the Antiochian Orthodox Diocese of Wichita:
http://www.dowama.org/sites/docs/SVCTypika_No_Priest.pdf

You still cannot distribute Holy Communion without a deacon present, according to that document.
Reader Kevin claimed Communion wasn't distributed at all. 
With no priest or deacon, no
But that is not how you qualified it.  You said always.  You were wrong. 
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