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« on: November 14, 2007, 06:54:28 AM »

Hi, I'm Orthodox, it's Wednesday, and I'm starving.  Grin

I just took a look at the box of cereal that I have for breakfast and that is basically the only food (apart from baby cereal and very stale bread) available until my husband comes home.

It says it MAY contain TRACES of nuts AND MILK. It's not supposed to, but it may. What does that mean? What are the actual chances of it really containing milk? Are there any official fasting guidelines in such cases? Do I just stick with the stale bread?  Grin

Thank you!
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007, 07:02:55 AM »

I don't want  to sound like a smart alik but why are you worrying so much? why are you fasting?
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007, 07:12:41 AM »

I don't want  to sound like a smart alik but why are you worrying so much? why are you fasting?


Did I sound like I'm worrying too much?  Embarrassed I just wouldn't like to wilfully break the Wednesday fast, that's all  Smiley I don't know much about such warnings on food (I can only guess they have to put them there b/c of allergies), what they really mean, and if there are any Orthodox responses to them... ?
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007, 07:17:09 AM »

I'll let some more pious and learned posters answer sorry paradoxy.
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007, 07:22:12 AM »

My cure for the "fasting hungrys" is plain toast and black tea.
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2007, 07:31:27 AM »

I'll let some more pious and learned posters answer sorry paradoxy.
Thanks anyway.  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2007, 07:36:27 AM »

My cure for the "fasting hungrys" is plain toast and black tea.

Um... thanks, George, but it's not really a case of 'fasting hungries', but just plain old hunger, as I haven't had my breakfast yet, I'm breastfeeding, and it's now 12.30 PM here. And I'm still looking at the box of cereal from post #1, but don't dare open it!  Wink

But I might toast the stale bread, so thank you!  Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2007, 07:41:46 AM »

I think mothers who are breastfeeding shouldn't really fast. Did you ask your priest?
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2007, 07:45:26 AM »

But I might toast the stale bread
Don't forget the black tea! The L-Theanine has a marvellous effect of giving a sense of relaxed alertness, and it's full of anti-oxidants!
By the way, tea loses it's antioxidants when you add milk, so you're better off drinking it black anyway!
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 07:48:24 AM »

Don't forget the black tea! The L-Theanine has a marvellous effect of giving a sense of relaxed alertness, and it's full of anti-oxidants!

Aunty-who?
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2007, 07:48:59 AM »

I think mothers who are breastfeeding shouldn't really fast. Did you ask your priest?

Yes, my fasts are relaxed, but I should fast 'properly' on Wednesdays and Fridays.  Smiley

I didn't ask him about boxes of cereal that 'may contain traces of milk', though...
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2007, 07:52:46 AM »

Don't forget the black tea! The L-Theanine has a marvellous effect of giving a sense of relaxed alertness, and it's full of anti-oxidants!
By the way, tea loses it's antioxidants when you add milk, so you're better off drinking it black anyway!

I don't have black tea at all... But I think I'll be getting some soon, as I seem to be drinking increasing amounts of coffee to no avail as my baby daughter seems to be sleeping for decreasing amounts of time...

I drink soy milk when I fast, that shouldn't interfere with those aunties, right?  laugh
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2007, 07:54:36 AM »

No advice on the box of cereal that says it 'may contain traces of milk'?

Sigh.

Going for the stale bread...  Wink
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2007, 07:59:20 AM »

I don't have black tea at all...
WHAT?!!!  Cheesy
Any herbal teas?

I seem to be drinking increasing amounts of coffee to no avail as my baby daughter seems to be sleeping for decreasing amounts of time...
The two may be related. See: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/drugs.html

I drink soy milk when I fast, that shouldn't interfere with those aunties, right?  laugh
Not sure on that one.
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2007, 08:20:01 AM »

WHAT?!!!  Cheesy
Any herbal teas?

Cammomile?

The two may be related. See: http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/drugs.html


I'm actually pretty sure it was the other way round - she seems happy and well-rested all the time, (especially around 1.30AM), not irritable or fidgety. I, OTOH, am utterly sleep-deprived, and need coffee to be able to keep my eyes open & make sure she doesn't get killed during her stunts around the house... as soon as I've had enough coffee to awaken somewhat, 3 hours later, she wants to be nursed to sleep and then takes a long, peaceful nap... which I can't share, b/c I'm completely unable to sleep during the day.  Undecided
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 08:28:03 AM »

Camomile is fantastic stuff!

I don't know how new parents do it! I'd be fit to be tied if I was so sleep deprived!
You should think about talking to some of our other new parents about tips in the "Family Forum" on OCnet!
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 08:32:38 AM »

Camomile is fantastic stuff!

I don't know how new parents do it! I'd be fit to be tied if I was so sleep deprived!
You should think about talking to some of our other new parents about tips in the "Family Forum" on OCnet!

I will, thanks!

This thread should probably be removed because it is just chatting now (however pleasant  Smiley), has nothing to do with faith, and no one seems to know what's to be done about 'may contain traces of milk' cereal.

And I've already breakfasted on very stale bread.

Mmmm... stale bread... it's yummy when you're starving!  Smiley

Thank you all.
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 09:02:25 AM »

It says it MAY contain TRACES of nuts AND MILK. It's not supposed to, but it may. What does that mean? What are the actual chances of it really containing milk? Are there any official fasting guidelines in such cases? Do I just stick with the stale bread?  Grin

Honestly, that's probably just a legal disclaimer for the off chance that someone who's severely allergic to nuts or milk eats it, gets one of those minute traces, and has a reaction.  Then the company can point to it and say, "We warned you."  Honestly, we're talking about such small amounts that it seems similar to what my bishop calls the 7 ingredient rule.  If you insist on looking at the ingredients on the box, what you do is count through the first seven or until you hit the first chemical, whichever is first.  By that point, they're in such small amounts that avoiding that for the fast is just being hyper-technical.  You might want to ask your priest about a rule of thumb for those situations.
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 09:17:47 AM »

You are breastfeeding...i.e., still eating for two. One has an excuse to relax her fast, the other exempt.

Eat the cereal.
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« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 10:05:27 AM »

No advice on the box of cereal that says it 'may contain traces of milk'?

Sigh.

Going for the stale bread...  Wink
I've heard it said "If I can't see it, it's not there."
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 10:49:38 AM »

Podromos got it right when he said speak to your Priest.

My wife just stopped nursing our daughter and did not fast during her pregnancy nor while nursing our daughter.  We decided this after consulting our doctor and our Priest and they both agreed it would not be in her best interest.

Now that our daughter is six months old and no longer nursing, she has continued to fast as usual.  I would first speak to your priest and I'm sure he will tell you not to worry about being to strict on yourself during this period in your life.
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 11:46:55 AM »

I know I have thought the same over possible traces of milk in cereals but is it too wrong to say that that my second thoughts were: "let´s be reasonable, it´s a cereal, I am eating it on its own, and if there is a trace of milk in it, I could not even see it, let alone enjoy it"?

What I am asking here is this: Paradoxy apart from breastfeeding, tries to keep the fasting rules, something to consult with her priest. But, is it reasonable to worry - and that applies to all of us - about things that are beyond our control and the point of fasting? I see fasting as a means of exercising and desintoxicating the body and the spirit, abstaining from giving free rein to passions etc. I understand it is not a question of eating something "unclean". So, how could possibly a "possible" trace of milk affect my fasting? Does it not become legalistic to observe a rule unbendingly?

It is not my intention to condition my brothers´ freedom with this, I just took the opportunity the post offered me to ask something I have been wondering about for a long time.
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2007, 12:26:17 PM »

Sophie,

I think you are right on.  It is important to note the "spirit of the fast" as opposed to the "letter of the fast".

However, this also works in reverse (IMHO).  This is kind of why I take issue with the notions of the veggie burger, soy latte and Tofu chicken fast.  If these foods replicate the original so that you realize no cognizable difference from fasting days and non-fasting days, are you really fasting.

Although I guess some might argue that "tofu chicken" is cruel and unusual and certainly represents the highest order of deprivation!!! LOL
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2007, 12:33:44 PM »

Sophie,

I think you are right on.  It is important to note the "spirit of the fast" as opposed to the "letter of the fast".

However, this also works in reverse (IMHO).  This is kind of why I take issue with the notions of the veggie burger, soy latte and Tofu chicken fast.  If these foods replicate the original so that you realize no cognizable difference from fasting days and non-fasting days, are you really fasting.

Although I guess some might argue that "tofu chicken" is cruel and unusual and certainly represents the highest order of deprivation!!! LOL

On the other hand, if veggie burgers, soy lattes, and the like are what you would be eating on a non-fast day, I don't see a problem with eating them on fast days (IMHO).  I guess it comes down to intent.  If you're eating the substitutes because that's what you normally eat anyway, go for it; if you're eating it to get around the fast, put the pharisee food down and enjoy your salad.  Tongue
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2007, 12:49:40 PM »

I would say the same thing applies even if you eat those foods regularly, because where is the deprivation if you continue to eat what you always eat?

If I'm eating burgers and steaks on fast days all the while "contemplating the spirt of the fast", am I okay?
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« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2007, 12:58:42 PM »

I would say the same thing applies even if you eat those foods regularly, because where is the deprivation if you continue to eat what you always eat?

If I'm eating burgers and steaks on fast days all the while "contemplating the spirt of the fast", am I okay?

I suppose that goes to the question of whether the fast is supposed to be about making yourself suffer or if it's about avoiding foods that inflame the passions. 
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« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2007, 01:00:49 PM »

I suppose that goes to the question of whether the fast is supposed to be about making yourself suffer or if it's about avoiding foods that inflame the passions. 

Part of it is also avoiding foods that are or come from animals.  Meat, dairy, poultry were not chosen at random.  Olive oil and wine are in a different category.
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2007, 04:26:35 PM »

I was told by someone that olive oil was not allowed in a fast because it was originally kept in animal skins, but now it's fine to use. May or may not be true, but I rarely have it anyway.

My priest gave me two rules to follow until I was done growing:

1.) Abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Fridays, and on Mondays during Lent. Continue to have dairy.

2.) If I am served meat by someone else, mention nothing about fasting, because it is more of a sin to deny food that is served to you.

Unless the food visibly has meat and dairy in it, it's fine. I've been told it's about eating simply, not so much about what one eats.
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2007, 04:59:36 PM »

I was told by someone that olive oil was not allowed in a fast because it was originally kept in animal skins, but now it's fine to use. May or may not be true, but I rarely have it anyway. 

I think this was addressed in another thread, but in the Mediterranean/Middle East olive oil was kept in clay pots, like most liquids...

My priest gave me two rules to follow until I was done growing:

1.) Abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Fridays, and on Mondays during Lent. Continue to have dairy.

2.) If I am served meat by someone else, mention nothing about fasting, because it is more of a sin to deny food that is served to you.

Unless the food visibly has meat and dairy in it, it's fine. I've been told it's about eating simply, not so much about what one eats.

Part of it is eating simply, but part of it is what you are eating.  Just don't get too obsessed with it.
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« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2007, 10:20:33 PM »

OK First off relax second you're new to fasting I take it We are not into legalism in Orthodoxy. Consult with your priest if you are usure. I applaud your desire to be faithful. Remember the Lord is looking at your heart not your stomach.
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« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2007, 12:39:21 AM »

If you are breastfeeding I would definitely consult your priest. Most of the women I know who are breastfeeding do not fast. Your body needs lots of calories to produce the milk so you cannot afford to risk your health or the health of your baby.
I really get concerned and nervous when I hear stories like yours. I hope your priest doesn't expect you to fast while breastfeeding.  Sad
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