OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 27, 2014, 11:10:25 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A little help and advice in regargs to thanksgiving  (Read 14172 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2007, 04:19:48 PM »

To get back to the OP, my priest always allows us to break the fast for one day for Thanksgiving. He and his family, however, have their own tradition of eating lobster on that day. They started this when they were Lutherans, long before they knew about the Nativity Fast.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,508


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2007, 04:26:42 PM »

Normally our family tradition is Mongolian beef and homemade potstickers.

We won't be observing the Nativity fast on Thanksgiving.

Although it is going to be quite strange in the future when my husband is the only one able to observe teh fast. He is absolutely fine with it. But it makes me feel strange. As I mentioned before; out of the last 7 years there would have only been about 2mths when I would have been able to fast according to the guidelines (pregnant and/or breastfeeding). And with the arrival of more children in the future (Lord willing, we certainly HOPE SO), I imagine it will be some time before I can observe the fast in the future.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 04:27:51 PM by Quinault » Logged
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2007, 04:36:20 PM »

Regarding the OT -- the OCA Diocese of the South (and I think the whole church) has observed a dispensation to eat w/the family for years, now, afaik.  So that meal will be normal, but it'll be hard to pass up on the leftovers.

Now, about that song...

Oh... and the songs they sing...

Yes, we'll rally round the flag, boys, we'll rally once again,
    Shouting the battle cry of Freedom,
We will rally from the hillside, we'll gather from the plain,
Shouting the battle cry of Freedom.

(Chorus)
The Union forever,
Hurrah! boys, hurrah!
Down with the traitors,
Up with the stars,

Ahem....   angel

We much prefer this 'un:

Quote
Our flag is proudly floating on the land and on the main,
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!
Beneath it oft we've conquered, and we'll conquer oft again!
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!

(Chorus)
Our Dixie forever! She's never at a loss!
Down with the eagle and up with the cross!
We'll rally 'round the bonny flag, we'll rally once again,
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!

Our gallant boys have marched to the rolling of the drums.
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!
And the leaders in charge cry out, "Come, boys, come!"
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!--

Chorus

They have laid down their lives on the bloody battle field.
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!
Their motto is resistance -- "To the tyrants never yield!"
Shout, shout the battle cry of Freedom!--

Capitulation, my...!   Wink
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2007, 05:37:40 PM »

Normally our family tradition is Mongolian beef and homemade potstickers.

We won't be observing the Nativity fast on Thanksgiving.

Although it is going to be quite strange in the future when my husband is the only one able to observe teh fast. He is absolutely fine with it. But it makes me feel strange. As I mentioned before; out of the last 7 years there would have only been about 2mths when I would have been able to fast according to the guidelines (pregnant and/or breastfeeding). And with the arrival of more children in the future (Lord willing, we certainly HOPE SO), I imagine it will be some time before I can observe the fast in the future.
Oh, you've been fasting all right. I saw what my wife was able to eat over the last nine months, and I can say with all certainty that pregnancy is in itself a fast. Enjoy Thanksgiving; it really is still a wonderful holiday.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,508


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2007, 05:42:48 PM »

Oh, you've been fasting all right. I saw what my wife was able to eat over the last nine months, and I can say with all certainty that pregnancy is in itself a fast. Enjoy Thanksgiving; it really is still a wonderful holiday.

When you factor in the foods I have to avoid while being my childs cafeteria I have to avoid quite a few foods; dairy, soy, nuts, broccoli, garlic, onions, chocolate Angry and anything spicy (read-flavor) ect. So the concept of fasting from foods isn't foreign to me. EVERYDAY is a dairy free day in this house! Grin
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 05:43:45 PM by Quinault » Logged
username!
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ukrainian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Pennsylvaniadoxy
Posts: 5,063



« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2007, 08:02:34 PM »

I'm interested in why no one mentioned this.

You are going to a non-Orthodox household for a dinner.  Much material exists to explain that sentence.
Remember we are supposed to hide our fasting, and not tell the public, for the reward from God is greater than the reward from man.  It would be more imposing to try to assert or make a spectacle at a mixed gathering.  If it were a total Orthodox gathering with the minority being non-Orthodox, then you could go full out.  But since you are visiting a non-Orthodox household for the dinner we were taught that it is better to accept their food and not mention your fasting at all.  What is worse, breaking the fast by pride of telling everyone you are fasting or keeping the fast in your heart that day while you keep the fact that you are fasting quiet?  I hope I am making sense.  And remember fasting doesn't mean anything if it is done just to meet the "legal requirements (think how the pharisees held the law).  The best thing to do would just go to the dinner and have everyone eat what is given by the host. 

  Fasting by inquirers can sometimes dishearten them greatly.  Fasting is a challenge.  To get the balance of pray and fasting just right takes time.  Many rookies keep legal and get sick, they over-fast, they don't know recipes to keep a balanced diet during fast times (mostly great-fast).  Ease into things.  Talk to your priest.
Don't be afraid to call him about this either!  Orthodox priests are close to their congregations and inquirers and welcome calls like this fasting question.  I wouldn't email him this question as you can't get the same amount of instruction via email as you could over the phone or if you can set up a 30 minute meeting at his office.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 08:04:18 PM by username! » Logged

BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2007, 09:16:51 PM »

Great post username; alot of excellent advice.

I would echo his advice: regardless of Thanksgiving or not, don't rush headlong into a strict fast; work your way into over a few years
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,892


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2007, 01:28:08 AM »

One thing from which you CAN and should fast, even during the Thanksgiving dinner, and that's from gluttony.  Don't make yourself as stuffed as the bird you just ate.
Logged
Desiring_unity
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 51


« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2011, 02:53:13 AM »

I can't remember where I heard this but it is true, Orthodox Americans typically break from the fast for Thanksgiving?
Logged

"Beloved in Christ, if you ever despair, wondering if what you do for God matters, remember: each single act of holiness is like a stone thrown into an ocean—the ripples go forth, and we do not know whom they touch or where they end."

From: http://www.antiochian.org/node/18911
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,108


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2011, 04:13:07 AM »

One priest told me that he tells his parishioners to, in honor of the old calendar.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,240



« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2011, 09:59:16 AM »

I'm reasonably certain that GOA Archbishop Demetrios has done so, and I know that Archbishop Dmitri, of blessed memory, did so for the Diocese of the South (OCA). I don't know about other jurisdictions. Our own priest has directed us to observe Thanksgiving in the traditional American manner with family and friends and to resume the fast on Friday, bringing any leftover non-fasting food to the church for use in our food program for the homeless.
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
TheMathematician
Banished and Disgraced
OC.net guru
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 1,420


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2011, 10:25:44 AM »

For us on the old calendar, it is not an issue, because it is not a fast day
Logged

SCREW BON JOVI!
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2011, 11:58:25 AM »

I'm in the OCA Diocese of the Midwest and we are given a blessing to celebrate Thanksgiving and we are new calendar.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Knee V
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 227



« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2011, 06:15:20 PM »

As long as I've been Orthodox I've been in the OCA diocese of the South, and we've always broken the fast for Thanksgiving. The reason that I was given is because it is the only secular holiday specifically set aside for the giving of thanks, and is thus Eucharistic at its core.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,792


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2011, 06:35:10 PM »

As long as I've been Orthodox I've been in the OCA diocese of the South, and we've always broken the fast for Thanksgiving. The reason that I was given is because it is the only secular holiday specifically set aside for the giving of thanks, and is thus Eucharistic at its core.

Good reason: Breaking bread together in thanksgiving.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,020


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2011, 10:28:36 PM »

Some other countries have a similar holiday, at different times of the year. I wonder if they get to go non-fast too. I think it would be all right, as long as they resume any necessary fast once the holiday is over.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2011, 12:17:10 AM »

The Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) has given a blessing for all the faithful to keep the fullness of the Thanksgiving feast. It is a tradition in many parishes to remember the day liturgically.

I know that my parish has always, on Wednesday evening, served Vespers and has Orthodoxy 101 (the usual Wednesday activities) and then Small Compline (which we always do during the Nativity fast) but insert the Akathist of Thanksgiving (Glory to God for All Things). On Thursday morning (Thanksgiving Day), we celebrate the Divine Liturgy.
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
Thankful
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 263



« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2011, 01:17:05 AM »

In our parish (and some others I'm aware of), we do not have a blessing to break the fast completely, but we do have a blessing to have fish that day (like with other feast days held during a fast).  We also have a liturgy that day.  We're celebrating Thanksgiving together as a parish the Sunday before the fast -- complete with turkey, buttery mashed potatoes, pecan pie, etc.
Logged

William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2011, 08:25:52 PM »

My parish's calendar doesn't have Thanksgiving marked a a fast day.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,214


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #64 on: October 19, 2011, 09:04:25 PM »

The Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) has given a blessing for all the faithful to keep the fullness of the Thanksgiving feast. It is a tradition in many parishes to remember the day liturgically.

I know that my parish has always, on Wednesday evening, served Vespers and has Orthodoxy 101 (the usual Wednesday activities) and then Small Compline (which we always do during the Nativity fast) but insert the Akathist of Thanksgiving (Glory to God for All Things). On Thursday morning (Thanksgiving Day), we celebrate the Divine Liturgy.

We have always done the same as well in ACROD.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #65 on: October 20, 2011, 06:17:33 PM »

When President Lincoln first instituted Thanksgiving, it was as a day of fasting.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
samkim
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 735



« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2011, 05:33:54 PM »

It's safe to break the fast until your turkey's all gone. Hah. Get a small turkey.
Logged

주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,459



« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2011, 05:45:58 PM »

When President Lincoln first instituted Thanksgiving, it was as a day of fasting.

This is sorta vague.

It is more in Lincoln's shadow that Thanksgiving became a regular holiday of celebration.

Thanksgiving Days were puritanically penitential for the most part prior the tradition that grew out of a Country coming to grips with a Civil War.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2011, 05:53:57 PM »

It's safe to break the fast until your turkey's all gone. Hah. Get a small turkey.
My priest did make it a point to tell us not to try getting away with buying three turkeys and having to finish all the leftovers because there's no room in the freezer!  Grin
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
TITL
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 105



« Reply #69 on: October 31, 2011, 07:46:56 PM »

One priest told me that he tells his parishioners to, in honor of the old calendar.

Wow!  Shocked

I never thought I'd hear such answers from the Orthodox. I guess being a Copt is really different from... what are you guys again? Greek Orthodox?
Logged
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,205



« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2011, 09:29:00 PM »

My parish's calendar doesn't have Thanksgiving marked a a fast day.
This is my experience as an Antiochian as well.

EDIT: But, truth be told, I will be spending Thanksgiving with my non-Orthodox parents and brothers (two of whom I haven't seen in a couple of years), and I would eat whatever was served even if the the fast wasn't relaxed. Seconds, too, probably.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 09:31:24 PM by Agabus » Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2011, 09:43:00 PM »

One priest told me that he tells his parishioners to, in honor of the old calendar.

Wow!  Shocked

I never thought I'd hear such answers from the Orthodox. I guess being a Copt is really different from... what are you guys again? Greek Orthodox?

What is being implied here?
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2011, 09:44:42 PM »

.

EDIT: But, truth be told, I will be spending Thanksgiving with my non-Orthodox parents and brothers (two of whom I haven't seen in a couple of years), and I would eat whatever was served even if the the fast wasn't relaxed. Seconds, too, probably.
In the spirit of "not going to lie," I'm going to join this bandwagon.

I need a lot of work, clearly.
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2011, 09:47:13 PM »

.

EDIT: But, truth be told, I will be spending Thanksgiving with my non-Orthodox parents and brothers (two of whom I haven't seen in a couple of years), and I would eat whatever was served even if the the fast wasn't relaxed. Seconds, too, probably.
In the spirit of "not going to lie," I'm going to join this bandwagon.

I need a lot of work, clearly.

I think many of the desert fathers are with you, actually.

The fast begins again the moment you leave your host's table.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2011, 09:51:46 PM »

I would think that helping myself to a heaping plate of seconds would get a raised eyebrow from a Desert Father or two!
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2011, 09:57:21 PM »

I would think that helping myself to a heaping plate of seconds would get a raised eyebrow from a Desert Father or two!

It is all about not bringing offence to your host and disharmony to the interaction.

You can fast doubly strictly later when the feelings of others are not at risk of harm.

Obviously this principle should not be used as an excuse for gluttony, but denying family members the opportunity to show their love for you (with food) in order to maintain an unbroken fast is also spiritually dangerous.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
dzheremi
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,064


« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2011, 09:58:23 PM »

Not to answer for TITL, but I know from past discussions with Copts that there is some disagreement on how to handle "American Thanksgiving", since it is during a fast and likewise not a native holiday for the majority of the people in the Coptic church (ethnic Egyptians). I don't think anything bad is implied in being surprised...it's not really something they've had to deal with for the majority of their nearly 2000 years of being a church. (And I'm working on trying to make the point among them that for some of us in the church it is a native holiday, and we can celebrate it in accordance with the principles we are told to follow in such circumstances, not to make the Orthodox church something that it isn't but because as converts we generally don't come from Orthodox families.)

One priest told me that he tells his parishioners to, in honor of the old calendar.

Wow!  Shocked

I never thought I'd hear such answers from the Orthodox. I guess being a Copt is really different from... what are you guys again? Greek Orthodox?

What is being implied here?
Logged

IsmiLiora
Chronic Exaggerator
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: One step closer!
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America (GOA)
Posts: 3,434


Back by unpopular demand.


« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2011, 10:00:57 PM »

I would think that helping myself to a heaping plate of seconds would get a raised eyebrow from a Desert Father or two!

It is all about not bringing offence to your host and disharmony to the interaction.

You can fast doubly strictly later when the feelings of others are not at risk of harm.

Obviously this principle should not be used as an excuse for gluttony, but denying family members the opportunity to show their love for you (with food) in order to maintain an unbroken fast is also spiritually dangerous.
I do agree with you, Akimori. I am being more cheeky than anything else. Sorry about that. Smiley

My husband and I first learned our lesson when we repeatedly (politely) refused a chicken dish at the house of a family in our church. They were beyond confused and probably offended, and I wish we hadn't done that.
Logged

She's touring the facility/and picking up slack.
--
"For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow." Ecclesiastes 1:18
--
I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view --
Life went on no matter who was wrong or right
TITL
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 105



« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2011, 10:10:42 PM »

I just thought God comes first, then native holidays.

Which is to say fasting is more important than eating turkey.
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2011, 10:29:39 PM »

I would contend (and I am not trying to be inflammatory or upsetting) that offending your brother by putting your fast before his feelings is, perversely, putting God second.

I also think the desert fathers have my back on this one, if what I'm saying is properly applied.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2011, 10:31:04 PM »

I would think that helping myself to a heaping plate of seconds would get a raised eyebrow from a Desert Father or two!

It is all about not bringing offence to your host and disharmony to the interaction.

You can fast doubly strictly later when the feelings of others are not at risk of harm.

Obviously this principle should not be used as an excuse for gluttony, but denying family members the opportunity to show their love for you (with food) in order to maintain an unbroken fast is also spiritually dangerous.
I do agree with you, Akimori. I am being more cheeky than anything else. Sorry about that. Smiley

My husband and I first learned our lesson when we repeatedly (politely) refused a chicken dish at the house of a family in our church. They were beyond confused and probably offended, and I wish we hadn't done that.

Yeah, it's this sort of thing that I am talking about.
Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
TITL
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 105



« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2011, 10:48:18 PM »

What if it would offend my brother if I didn't put wine on the table with every meal?

Should I destroy myself and be a stumbling block for him, or teach him what's right and abide by my own rules (fasting vs. not fasting)?
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2011, 10:53:48 PM »

What if it would offend my brother if I didn't put wine on the table with every meal?

Should I destroy myself and be a stumbling block for him, or teach him what's right and abide by my own rules (fasting vs. not fasting)?

Good questions, I think.

It seems to me that in your own house, your guests should keep whatever fast it is you keep. In the house of another, the duty to accept hospitality comes before your own fast, which you may enforce doubly strictly once you leave your host's table.

If your host knows about your fast and makes an effort to accommodate it, all the better.

The fast is for our own benefit, after all. Both the fast and accepting the charity of one's neighbour are ways of glorifying God.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 10:54:41 PM by akimori makoto » Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
TITL
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 105



« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2011, 10:58:10 PM »

I don't see how cooking beans instead of chicken for my neighbor will offend him?

A vegetarian, non religious, person will do no different than a person fasting.

I don't think it's right for me to break the fast when inviting guests, unless they're allergic to all vegan products...

If I were the guest, I wouldn't mind eating meat on fasting days. But that's something else.
Logged
akimori makoto
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-heretical Christian
Jurisdiction: Fully-sik-hektic archdiocese of Australia, bro
Posts: 3,126

No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2011, 10:59:26 PM »

I don't see how cooking beans instead of chicken for my neighbor will offend him?

A vegetarian, non religious, person will do no different than a person fasting.

I don't think it's right for me to break the fast when inviting guests, unless they're allergic to all vegan products...

If I were the guest, I wouldn't mind eating meat on fasting days. But that's something else.

Actually, I'm in complete agreement with you. I'm sorry if I have given the wrong impression. I think we are both conflating multiple posts.

I am only talking about the situation of being someone else's guest (I think this is what Liora and Agabus were saying?).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 11:03:40 PM by akimori makoto » Logged

The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Thankful
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 263



« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2011, 12:27:58 AM »

It seems maybe we're a little too concerned with "don't want to offend the host" if that's the only reason for breaking the fast.  I know a wide variety of people and can't think of a one that would be offended if I took mashed potatoes, roasted vegies, jello, cranberries, bread and apple pie, but no turkey.  We don't have to take some of everything, you know?  We don't have to call attention to what we're doing or that we're not going to eat animal products.  We can just go and love on people and enjoy and talk and laugh and hug and encourage and listen -- and not take turkey.  

(I'm not addressing the issue of people having a blessing to feast on this day.)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 12:29:14 AM by Thankful » Logged

dcommini
Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,198


Beannachd Dia dhuit

dcommini
WWW
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2011, 01:37:48 AM »

I've only been Orthodox for a little over a year so I am not that familiar with everything yet, but it seems to me that the parishes I have been apart of gave a blessing to break the fast for Thanksgiving. I try not to eat a whole lot so I can still keep the spirit of the fast and not gorge myself on food, but that is a lost cause when I am with my in-laws who always try to make me eat more food; I literally have to tell them countless times that I am full and don't want any more food before they offer three more times... Such is life.
Logged

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...
Maximum Bob
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,480


Personal Text? We can have personal text?


« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2011, 11:30:51 PM »

I think I remember seeing in this thread http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13332.0.html that the Antiochian Orthodox Church of North America has a dispensation to break the fast for that day. If I'm reading it wrong, of course, correct me.
Logged

Prov. 3: 5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.
Psalm 37:23 The Lord guides a man safely in the way he should go.
NicholasMyra
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian/Greek
Posts: 5,835


Avowed denominationalist


« Reply #88 on: November 04, 2011, 04:41:24 AM »

One thing from which you CAN and should fast, even during the Thanksgiving dinner, and that's from gluttony.  Don't make yourself as stuffed as the bird you just ate.
Logged

Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,214


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #89 on: November 04, 2011, 09:28:17 AM »

I think I remember seeing in this thread http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13332.0.html that the Antiochian Orthodox Church of North America has a dispensation to break the fast for that day. If I'm reading it wrong, of course, correct me.

Likewise over the years for the New Calendar parishes of ACROD, and all of us when Thanksgiving is at its latest dates in November. Peter the Aleut's advice about fasting from GLUTTONY at the table is well taken and one that I have likewise heard over the years from our priests!
Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.141 seconds with 71 queries.