Topic: The white lights I keep seeing

[mmaccs]

Are beginning to scare the crap out of me to be quite frank, I've seen a kind of flash of light around five times in the last three days

It seems to be from another dimension. One of the times I saw a light was challenged, I silently asked and there it was kind of in the sky through a gap in my blind (for around one second)

Tell me what the score is with this please

[PeterTheAleut]

First, see if you can find a natural explanation for this phenomenon, something as simple as, say..., a street lamp.  Not to belittle your legitimate concerns, but the cause may be just that simple.  If you cannot find any natural reason, then I recommend you do the following:

1.  Talk to your priest.
2.  Talk to your priest.
3.  Talk to your priest.

Need I reiterate again that you need to bring this to the attention of your priest if you cannot find a natural cause for this phenomenon?

[mmaccs]

Trust me, it's not natural. I've also heard sharp moans of a woman in pain seemingly from another dimension that nobody else could hear, and, my entire body was jolted in bed the other morning

I'll talk to him

[PeterTheAleut]

Trust me, it's not natural. I've also heard sharp moans of a woman in pain seemingly from another dimension that nobody else could hear, and, my entire body was jolted in bed the other morning

I'll talk to him

Yeah, I think you had better do this, and ASAP.  What you present to us appears demonic.

[aurelia]

Also please see a physician.  I know a lot of you may not like this but seeing and hearing things is also a sign of other more serious mental/chemical problems.

[ozgeorge]

Also please see a physician.  I know a lot of you may not like this but seeing and hearing things is also a sign of other more serious mental/chemical problems.

I second that suggestion.

[aurelia]

Thanks. 

I put that there because I have a good friend with those issues (the dreaded "s" word) and in fact he calls them his "demons" Just cover all your bases, I hate to see anyone suffer no matter what the cause.

[Heorhij]

Dear mmaccs, I second others' suggestion about seeing a physician. Please, do this ASAP. There are so many disorders that cause these "white light" hallucinations - lead poisoning comes to mind, and a large number of others.

[PeterTheAleut]

Dear mmaccs, I second others' suggestion about seeing a physician. Please, do this ASAP. There are so many disorders that cause these "white light" hallucinations - lead poisoning comes to mind, and a large number of others.

Part of the "natural explanations" I talked about.

[Tzimis]

I saw a white light myself late night. It was in the sky. It probably was a comet. maybe this can explain it.

[Ebor]

Yes, please get some medical advice and an examination.  Flashes of light and auditory hallucinations can have physical causes such as migraine, eye trouble, neurological situations etc.  

Ebor

[Art Nichols]

Those white lights are demonic. See your priest ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterTheAleut]

Those white lights are demonic. See your priest ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

And have you read the other posts on this thread that suggest neurobiological roots (e.g., psychological/mental/emotional illness) for these "hallucinations"?  The idea that this phenomenon may be demonic has been suggested (by me), but there very well could be natural causes, as well.  To state with such certainty that these white lights are demonic may actually encourage a paranoia that is not necessary.

[Ebor]

Neurological disorders are physical diseases/conditions of the nervous system and brain.  They may seem to be emotional or psychological, but there are physical causes in many cases such as tumors, seizures and the like.  A person I know who has *had* seizures said that the white lights/auditory hallucinations sound like having a seizure. 

You are quite right, Peter, that stating with certainty but *without* knowledge of the person having the experiences is not helpful but can fostor paranoia and prevent proper treatment.

For some good books on neurological cases I can recommend Oliver Sacks' works such as  The Man who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, A Leg to Stand On,  Seeing Voices,  An Anthropologist on Mars, Awakenings and others.

mmaccs, have you had a chance to see a doctor?

Ebor

[pathofsolitude]

To Ebor- Do you give the same diagnosis for the stories we read about in the gospels and in church history?? Actually neurological disorders are often caused by demons. They work physically just as the good angels can physically bestow mental bliss.

To mmaccs- If you are praying and fasting then dont worry! The enemy is just trying to stir you up. The same things happened to the saints. Lets not forget that even St Antony was badly bruised all over his body by the wicked spirits. Fight in faith. Invoke the Holy Name and make the Sign of the Cross as much as you can. The Master Jesus Christ is invincible!!!

[prodromas]

Pathofsolitude I'm sorry but this sort of primitive understanding of phenomenon like this is the same reason why I cringe when I see my grandmother "spit" on people to ward off Satan. The fact is that it could be anything but according to Occam's razor I believe that first mmaccs should see a licensed physician and of course mmaccs should pray then if there is no definitive answer a priest should most probably be sought after. The saints went through things we will never understand and the exact situation isn't always important but the meanings these stories convey.

[pathofsolitude]

Pathofsolitude I'm sorry but this sort of primitive understanding of phenomenon like this is the same reason why I cringe when I see my grandmother "spit" on people to ward off Satan. The fact is that it could be anything but according to Occam's razor I believe that first mmaccs should see a licensed physician and of course mmaccs should pray then if there is no definitive answer a priest should most probably be sought after. The saints went through things we will never understand and the exact situation isn't always important but the meanings these stories convey.

Do the holy gospels and the saints have a "primitive understanding" of things? Maybe we should use "Occam's razor" on them too?! I personally adhere to the method of the saints over the scholastic philosopher Occam. Btw, our friend says he is hearing "sharp moans of a woman in pain from another dimension," and sees strange lights after praying. These are the very exact tactics of demons to lead people astray.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

PoS,

Do you have as complete an understanding of things as the writers of the Holy Gospels and all the Saints?

[Keble]

What I want to know is why it's such a bad thing to take the simple precaution of seeing a doctor.

[pathofsolitude]

What I want to know is why it's such a bad thing to take the simple precaution of seeing a doctor.

There is nothing wrong with seeing a doctor. I believe his name is The Great Physician.

[Ebor]

To Ebor- Do you give the same diagnosis for the stories we read about in the gospels and in church history?? Actually neurological disorders are often caused by demons. They work physically just as the good angels can physically bestow mental bliss.

I don't "diagnose" because I am not a doctor (nor do I play on on TV  ).  Neurological disorders are often caused by such things as tumors or lesions or damage to nerves or the brain, sometimes by auto-immune system troubles.  God has enabled the human race to gain knowledge of the body and how some of the processes work. He gave us medicine to help protect or heal or treat illness and injury.   

There could be a number of reasons for this to be happening.  I am not the only one who has urged the OP to see a doctor, others who are EO have done so as well as *well* as consulting a priest. 

And if the cleric tells the OP to see a doctor?

To mmaccs- If you are praying and fasting then dont worry! The enemy is just trying to stir you up. The same things happened to the saints. Lets not forget that even St Antony was badly bruised all over his body by the wicked spirits. Fight in faith. Invoke the Holy Name and make the Sign of the Cross as much as you can. The Master Jesus Christ is invincible!!!

It would seem that you are "diagnosing" for a person whom you do not know.   

Ebor

[EofK]

You know, my brother used to be into shunning modern medicine and relying solely on prayer and "deliverance" ministries when he was sick a few years ago.  His condition steadily worsened over the course of a year until my mother convinced him he needed to see a doctor.  Once he did, he discovered that had pneumonia, with 30% capacity left in only one lung.  The chest xrays also showed a mass in his chest/neck, which turned out to be thyroid cancer and Hodgkin's lymphoma fused together in a tumour.  He now realizes the value of medicine and that sometimes the physical being needs to be treated physically.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for prayer and it is possible that you, mmaccs, are suffering from demonic influence but please do see a medical doctor as well as your priest.  There indeed could be a biological reason for this. [/echo]  I see no point in repeating it's-a-demon when this person's physical health has not yet been assessed.

[pathofsolitude]

You know, my brother used to be into shunning modern medicine and relying solely on prayer and "deliverance" ministries when he was sick a few years ago.  His condition steadily worsened over the course of a year until my mother convinced him he needed to see a doctor.  Once he did, he discovered that had pneumonia, with 30% capacity left in only one lung.  The chest xrays also showed a mass in his chest/neck, which turned out to be thyroid cancer and Hodgkin's lymphoma fused together in a tumour.  He now realizes the value of medicine and that sometimes the physical being needs to be treated physically.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for prayer and it is possible that you, mmaccs, are suffering from demonic influence but please do see a medical doctor as well as your priest.  There indeed could be a biological reason for this. [/echo]  I see no point in repeating it's-a-demon when this person's physical health has not yet been assessed.

First of all mmaccs probably doesnt need to be "delivered" from any demons. As I said the saints experienced the same harassment.

Btw- Deliverance doesnt work automatically. If the priest or monk is not a Spirit-bearer he cannot do it.

And of course not all illnesses are demonically caused. I only said that they "often" are.

[minasoliman]

You know, my brother used to be into shunning modern medicine and relying solely on prayer and "deliverance" ministries when he was sick a few years ago.  His condition steadily worsened over the course of a year until my mother convinced him he needed to see a doctor.  Once he did, he discovered that had pneumonia, with 30% capacity left in only one lung.  The chest xrays also showed a mass in his chest/neck, which turned out to be thyroid cancer and Hodgkin's lymphoma fused together in a tumour.  He now realizes the value of medicine and that sometimes the physical being needs to be treated physically.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for prayer and it is possible that you, mmaccs, are suffering from demonic influence but please do see a medical doctor as well as your priest.  There indeed could be a biological reason for this. [/echo]  I see no point in repeating it's-a-demon when this person's physical health has not yet been assessed.

Kinda reminds me of the story of the person drowning and asked God for help, not realizing that the three people who came to save him were sent from God.

mmaccs,

On the flipside, there are many physicians who will be more than willing to play Good Samaritan and help you on your issues of seeing white lights.  Don't be fooled by the idea that "many saints experienced the same thing."  A monk one time got the message that chariots of fire will come take him to heaven like it did Elijah.  It lead him to his suicide instead as he jumped off a monastery roof.  If it's a somatic issue, it should be checked with the little helpers of the Great Physician, also given the name "physician."

God bless.

[ialmisry]

Kinda reminds me of the story of the person drowning and asked God for help, not realizing that the three people who came to save him were sent from God.

mmaccs,

On the flipside, there are many physicians who will be more than willing to play Good Samaritan and help you on your issues of seeing white lights.  Don't be fooled by the idea that "many saints experienced the same thing."  A monk one time got the message that chariots of fire will come take him to heaven like it did Elijah.  It lead him to his suicide instead as he jumped off a monastery roof.  If it's a somatic issue, it should be checked with the little helpers of the Great Physician, also given the name "physician."

God bless.

Yes.  as I recall one named Luke wrote a biography. But I guess those against medical doctors have used Occam's razor to cut it out of the canon.

[Ebor]

Kinda reminds me of the story of the person drowning and asked God for help, not realizing that the three people who came to save him were sent from God.

I was thinking of the same joke, Mina.  "I sent you a row boat, a sail boat and a freighter."

Ebor

[Hadel]

Hi,

Yes, I agree, see your doctor and do a brain scan as well. Always check everything before believing.

Plus, why do all of you say "White light" is demonic?! I would think a white light is from "God." Why would a demon come in a white light? Just a thought.

Take care of your health first and then check on other options like a priest.

In Christ,
Hadel

[PeterTheAleut]

Plus, why do all of you say "White light" is demonic?! I would think a white light is from "God." Why would a demon come in a white light? Just a thought.

1.  Not all of us say these white lights are demonic.  If you've read the thread thoroughly, this is the message of only two or three of us--there are many more of us who say otherwise.  (FTR, I only suggested that the white lights MAY be demonic; I didn't say I knew for certain.)

2.  "... for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."  (2 Corinthians 11:14) - The answer to your second question is this:  to deceive the faithful.

[Pravoslavije-gal]

Are beginning to scare the crap out of me to be quite frank, I've seen a kind of flash of light around five times in the last three days

It seems to be from another dimension. One of the times I saw a light was challenged, I silently asked and there it was kind of in the sky through a gap in my blind (for around one second)

Tell me what the score is with this please

Are you under stress friend?

Stress can tighten the muscle fibers around the eye(yes eyes do have muscles and cause such things to happen.

Same goes with the ears.

Peole who are suffering the 'sch" disease or psychosis would not even realise that what is going on is abnormal.

If you realise what is going on and are aware that it is not "normal" chances are it due to stress.

Get checked out by a mediacl expert anywayz thoughh...

[prayingserb]

Hi,

Yes, I agree, see your doctor and do a brain scan as well. Always check everything before believing.

Plus, why do all of you say "White light" is demonic?! I would think a white light is from "God." Why would a demon come in a white light? Just a thought.

Take care of your health first and then check on other options like a priest.

In Christ,
Hadel

Demons can menifest to look God-like, so the victim is even more fooled, thinking it's Godly experience.

[Hadel]

Hi,

Thank you all; I understand what you mean about "White Lights."

However, I read that white lights, the eye doctors calls "Floaters." So I say he might have his eyes checked and I pray all is in good health.

God Be with you.

In Christ,
Hadel

[Psalti Boy]

GO SEE AN OPHTHALMOLOGIST, OR A RETINA SPECIALIST RIGHT AWAY.  That sounds like a possible retina detachment.  Don't wait too long.  When I suffered 2 vitreous detachmants 3 years ago in an accident, my ophthalmologist and retina specialist told me if I ever see any kind of flashing light to see them right away.  I hope it turns out to be nothing.

PB

[Psalti Boy]

. . . seeing and hearing things is also a sign of other more serious mental/chemical problems.

Well . . . I don't know about that.  I've got mental problems and have yet to see white flashing lights.    Except when I'm driving and they are accompanied by red flashing lights behind me. 

PB

[Psalti Boy]

I read that white lights, the eye doctors calls "Floaters."

I've got floaters and they are more like white or black threads and dots.

PB

[Quinault]

My brother was born prematurely, and because of that he ended up with oxygen poisoning. Oxygen poisoning causes you to basically become blind (pure oxygen in newborns).

Anyway, about 14 years ago he started to see white lights and floaters. My mother was joyful, she declered that he is "healed" of his legal blindness if "he would just believe." He insisted on seeing the BIH doctors anyway, my mom was triumphantly sure that they would declare him "healed." Instead he was rushed into surgery less than 24 hours later for a COMPLETE retinal detachment. They were somewhat able to save some sight in that eye, but it will never be the same. If he hadn't had surgery immediately he would have lost all sight in that eye.

All that to say, even if you THINK that you have been healed, go to a doctor irregardless for a medical verification.

I completely believe in healing, and I know that God can and does heal people. But being checked by a doctor won't make your healing go away. It isn't a failure of faith. It is prudent and wise to do so. We are called to be good stewards, and that includes how we care for our bodies.

[Quinault]

I've got floaters and they are more like white or black threads and dots.

PB

Those are different. Everyone has a certain amount of those wormy types of floaters. They look like little clear worms. Most people don't notice them. But when you do notice them a great deal it is bad. Those floaters are some of the vitrial gel in your eye if they are large and noticable.

[PeterTheAleut]

Something to consider for this discussion:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13317.msg199251.html#msg199251

[aurelia]

I don't see the conection.