Hello Sparky, welcome to the forum,
I don't know what their policy is on banning. Again, I'm not a moderator over there. The only thing I know is that there were many, many complaints made about Orthodox behavior, and apparently when the higher ups (namely the man Karl Keating or someone else on the main staff who pays good money to run that forum) finally looked, he/they pulled the plug, lock, stock and barrel.
I am not surprised, but I believe that you are imagining the situation to be quite different than it actually is.
I agree that there must have been complaints, especially from the financial supporters. But their complaints would not have been about rudeness on our part (any more than any other groups rudeness (I think as a group we set a high bar overall), but the fact that the Latin Catholic church was not showing well. If they were kicking butt every day there would be no complaints.
If your eye offends you pluck it out and all that.
This is really misapplied. What you are saying is "if that other persons eye offends you...pluck his eye out!
Read their TOS. They don't have to give warning, as I understand it.
Granted.
Well, you see...the goal should not be to bully or beat up on anyone. That is a lack of Christian charity, is it not? Who is the one who should be the better example of Christ's charity?
Is there really success in causing more division and hatred rather than charity? Really?
I have always felt the same way. Too bad the archives have been locked, and possibly destoyed, you could see the lack of charity and where it originated. They keep the most mundane stuff archived there, like old political forums and such, but not this one.
Think about it. The root of our divisions (all of them, Orthodox, Catholic, and even Protestant) is rooted in human pride, the deadliest of all sins. With the Protestants it is to make each individual their own pope. With the Orthodox, they have no humility and therefore "non servum" (that is my perception, for what it's worth, and I do not think it is far off the mark)....We are all guilty of it. The goal should be to break that cycle, but since we are all rooted in ugly pride it will not happen.
I can agree, we are all guilty of pride. I don't agree with your assessment of the Orthodox, which is nothing but your preconceived notion based upon the flaweed assumption that the bishop of Rome should be as a modern Pope.
We as a group will, in fact, serve God's Will and do try as best as we know and are able. We understand primacy and authority in the church, it is operative at all levels. Historically we have never had anything like a modern Pope to reject out of pride. If we actually did have something like that, and refused to any longer "serve" him, I suppose you would have an argument.
But I was taught that the Pope was the "
Servant of the Servants of God", is he not?
With Rome a sense of intellectual and spiritual superiority.
In fact, it is arrogance, and a pride in the organization which is still (after all) composed of fallible human beings. And it is hamartia.
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you are better at debate and managed to convince some people to your argument. You won a few souls to your cause. Bully for you. But what did you really accomplish? A lot more hurt, a lot more pain, a lot more division in the Body of Christ.
Since Catholic Answers is a Catholic organization whose goal is to defend the Catholic faith, I think converting Catholics to commit schism and therefore mortal sin would be upsetting to the board's owners, don't you think?
If this is what you think, then we are not very close to healing this rift. At one level (the "polite" level) we are your "sister" churches, and at another we are nothing but low-down dirty schismatics! While some Latin Catholics attempted to hold a balanced and informed position (something I respect even when I do not agree) others had malice in their hearts, looking to draw blood, equating us with protestants and heretics. Keen on disgracing both our beliefs (which are often shred by eastern Catholics) and our Holy Orthodox church, the Bride of Christ, itself.
Do you concur with Pope Boniface VIII when he states in
Unam Sanctam:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00]"If, then, the Greeks or others say that they were not committed to the care of Peter and his successors, they necessarily confess that they are not of the sheep of Christ; for the Lord says, in John, that there is one fold, one shepherd, and one only.”[/bgcolor]
Do you agree with Pope Eugene IV when he states in
Canate Domino that:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00] "It [the sacrosanct Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart "into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" [/bgcolor]
Are you in agreement with Pius XI when he writes in
Mortalium Animos:
[bgcolor=#f5ff00] “Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius and the reformers obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls? Alas their children left the home of their fathers, but it did not fall to the ground and perish for ever, for it was supported by God. Let them therefore return to their common Father, who, forgetting the insults previously heaped on the Apostolic See, will receive them in the most loving fashion. For if, as they continually state, they long to be united with Us and ours, why do they not hasten to enter the Church, “the Mother and mistress of all Christ’s faithful?” Let them hear Lactantius crying out: “The Catholic Church is alone in keeping the true worship. This is the fount of truth, this is the house of Faith, this is the temple of God: if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned, which will be lost and entirely destroyed, unless their interests are carefully and assiduously kept in mind.”[/bgcolor]
Many of your like-minded coreligionists take these pronouncements to heart, and use that as justification to attack us. If anyone spreads misinformation about my Faith to their advantage, anywhere, I will not hesitate to try and correct these mistakes (and which are sometimes deliberate lies, or so it seems). If I am correct and all the readers can see that, and it results in some people choosing Holy Orthodoxy over your church, well then shame on those who brought this situation about, for they are to blame, not I.
I am just musing here, but the Lord works in mysterious ways, and perhaps he intended the polemical Latin Catholic posters to look so foolish...who can say? Perhaps this was a mechanism to open the eyes of some few honest and sincere inquirers. It's just a thought...
It really is what I described above - you went in, ate their food, drank all their beer, then proceeded to turn the hosts' other visitors and family members against them.
That is something you are not able to speak about since by your own admission you did not participate.
What we did was defend Holy Orthodoxy when it came under attack from some people of your confession who in no way were interested in building up out mutual ties or reinforcing our common qualities, but were directly and seriously engaged in tearing down Holy Orthodoxy. Presenting misinformation, sometimes innocently, sometimes apparently not, and sometimes mixing their opinions in as fact. It is odd that they found it necessary to do this when they should be able to make their own church look pretty good without having to resort to putting Holy Orthodoxy down.
We defended our church by correcting poorly translated quotes and putting Patristic evidence in context. It was a simple idea really. But I won't take credit for that, others better knowledgeable and prepared than I were able to carry that through.
I have stated here (on this thread) before that the Latin Catholic posters generally relied on quote mines and other resources that they trusted, but which were seriously flawed when it comes to the eastern churches. These include but are not limited to the Old Catholic Encyclopedia and Catholic Answers very own polemical materials. Many of them were used to arguing the case with Protestants, and foolishly assumed that we were no better. So then, much energy was expended trying to box us in to their own narrow definitions as "rebels" and "heretics" to discredit our church, they failed.
Some tried to prove our church "started" at some point in Christian history instead of arising out of the Pentecost event, they failed.
It should be noted that a large percentage of those conversions were of LURKERS, not necessarily continually active participants. They had plenty of opportunities to read the evidence presented, and ask questions of the more active participants. They lurkers and inquirers also had plenty of opportunities to do their own independent research outside of CAF from sources of their own choosing! This, from my recollection, they were always encouraged to do.
All the Latin Catholics had to do was answer each question honestly, that should have been able to dominate any discussion if they presented Truth in their arguments and that true information had merit. But they did not or could not always be honest and when that happened the audience saw right through them. They should be ashamed of their poor performance in their own setting.
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you are better at debate and managed to convince some people to your argument. You won a few souls to your cause. Bully for you. But what did you really accomplish? A lot more hurt, a lot more pain, a lot more division in the Body of Christ.
Congratulations! I'm sure our Lord is happy.
This sounds like a pretty sour comment.
