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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 274199 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mickey
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« Reply #1530 on: May 29, 2008, 02:05:20 PM »

Ah... Advanced Trolling 401.

The graduate course!  laugh
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 02:05:34 PM by Mickey » Logged
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« Reply #1531 on: May 29, 2008, 03:02:49 PM »

Ah... Advanced Trolling 401.
I really just think everyone is being very unfair to him. I am not sure that I want to go any further with this because I know I will just get accused of being a troll but its simply not fair to accuse every poster, such as Simple Sinner, who accepts all the teachings of the Catholic Church, of other motives. It gets really old.
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« Reply #1532 on: May 29, 2008, 03:26:50 PM »

Speaking of accepting the teachings of the RCC, does it bother anyone else in either communion when people say things like "Orthodox and Catholics really believe the same things, they just don't know it yet?" This thinking is out in force in the thread about the RO patriarch receiving Catholic communion.
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« Reply #1533 on: May 29, 2008, 04:10:15 PM »

Gregory Palamas was a good voice to have on the EC forum.  He was a voice who didn't simply surrender to western thinking.  It seems like there are very few left on that forum who haven't just assumed the Latin theology.  Ghosty offers a good perspective but he is the only one who consistently posts who offers anything but Latin theology.  There are several who post once in a while - LakaYaRabb, ronyodish, yeshua - who are good but there are very few who post more than a couple posts a week.
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« Reply #1534 on: May 29, 2008, 05:38:06 PM »

I really just think everyone is being very unfair to him. I am not sure that I want to go any further with this because I know I will just get accused of being a troll but its simply not fair to accuse every poster, such as Simple Sinner, who accepts all the teachings of the Catholic Church, of other motives. It gets really old.

Hmm ... that is really getting old.
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« Reply #1535 on: May 29, 2008, 05:39:53 PM »

Speaking of accepting the teachings of the RCC, does it bother anyone else in either communion when people say things like "Orthodox and Catholics really believe the same things, they just don't know it yet?" This thinking is out in force in the thread about the RO patriarch receiving Catholic communion.

A little, but what bothers me even more is what I like to call the "We're both right except that you're wrong" style of rhetoric. I don't have an example off the top of my head, but I think a number of CAF posters have used it with regard to the Orthodox. (This isn't exactly an example, but it's a little like what Skippy said few days ago: "I do not see EO as opponents but fellow Christians who have been misled by their own propaganda.")
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« Reply #1536 on: May 29, 2008, 06:05:16 PM »

My agreement with Michael on CA was not marking out Simple Sinner but a few from that we are the church and bread american catholic crowd...

I choose not to engage Easterners...

maybe a few sod busters...
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« Reply #1537 on: May 29, 2008, 06:29:24 PM »

I am getting the impression (don't know this for sure) that certain individuals are drawing out other posters into stating things so as to report them and have them silenced. Like a hockey game, getting your opponent into the penalty box can be a strategy.

Michael


Interesting.
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« Reply #1538 on: May 31, 2008, 01:04:22 AM »

Birth Control - Contraception
Papa Gregorio

Papa Gregorio,

Are you here?

I would really love to have copies of your messages on the early Church Fathers and their teaching on birth control.

I kept a list of your messages but of course they have been annihilated along with so much valuable information on CAF.

If anybody can access them for me, they were at these links...

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2096440&postcount=97
 
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2096838&postcount=102
 
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2099192&postcount=133
 
http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2099435&postcount=138
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« Reply #1539 on: May 31, 2008, 03:38:45 AM »

Papa Gregorio

Papa Gregorio,

Are you here?
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Thank you, OC.net, for making these connections possible.
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« Reply #1540 on: June 03, 2008, 04:43:56 AM »

My brothers and sisters,

I’ve read this thread virtually from the time it was begun and I want to say a few things about it. Let me begin with some background before I get into the circumstances that birthed this protest movement and those which have continued to nourish it.

Firstly, I have been touched deeply by the expressions of respect and affection that have been posted by so many, Catholic and Orthodox. I’d be lying to you if I said that there have not been a lot of occasions on which my reading here was done through misted eyes. You can’t imagine how much it has meant to realize that, in the midst of your own frustrations and rancor over the injustices done, that so many were concerned for my well-being and so bothered by what they saw as wrongs done to me.

In its inception, I had both qualms and misgivings about accepting a moderator position at CAF.  Historically, Eastern and Oriental Christians (Catholic or Orthodox) haven’t fared well at any predominately Latin on-line forum and CAF to that time was no particular exception. Eastern Catholics - seeking to be contributory and foster an awareness of their very existence - would post to a thread discussing praxis or spirituality, explaining how and/or why it differed in their Church from the “Catholic norm” - the Latin way. Not untypically, responses made clear that no one had asked, few cared, and a significant number already doubted our Catholicity and felt confirmed in their perception by the fact that we weren’t doing things “the right way”.

Eastern Orthodox posters got even less-welcoming receptions, with suspensions and bannings being seemingly de riguer, regardless of the topics to which they sought to contribute. It was fairly obvious that it was significantly more “acceptable” to be a Protestant expressing a viewpoint counter to Catholic opinion than it was to do so as an Orthodox Christian. Thinking back on this, I suspect that the origins of this mindset have something to do with an expectation that the Orthodox, being “so much like us Catholics” and “supposedly an Apostolic Church” are just being stubborn in refusing to see things “our” way - while the Protestants can be forgiven for doing so - as they are just plain ignorant (“invincibly ignorant” as we like to say).

That CAF proposed to establish a venue dedicated to Eastern Christianity certainly seemed a positive step. It would acknowledge that the “other lung” existed, even though its lobes were segmented; it would afford an environment in which we could discuss topics that had peculiar significance to our Churches and peoples - praxis, iconography, architecture, vesture, spirituality, hagiography, and others - as well as explore and even debate issues that divided us - the filioque, papal authority, doctrine, dogma, among the few or the many, depending on one’s perspective on the glass and its contents. Additionally, Latins and non-Catholics with a genuine curiosity about or interest in the East could come there, get answers, disabuse their misperceptions, etc.

Still, I knew that the concept was fraught with potential problems. Our on-line presence is negligible compared to that of Latins - be they traditionalists or otherwise. And our experience as a group is largely limited to interacting with “our own kind” - at places like OC.net, ByzCath, Indiana, TAW, and other sites - with our choice of “home” being made chiefly on the basis of how “rough and tumble” an environment we are willing to accept. As large as CAF was (and is), it would be a far cry from the myriad small Latin sites with either a token Eastern board or none. So, the atmosphere had the potential to be extraordinarily different from anything most of us had encountered or with which we had dealt.

Another issue, a personal one for me, was whether I could successfully moderate it. The on-line Eastern Christian community is comparatively small, as I mentioned, and large numbers of those who actively participate in it either know one another or know of one another.  There’s cross-over among the sites and reputations often transcend registration bounds. CAF has a policy, not widely known, that its moderators adopt a pseudonym used only in their mod capacity. It has value: if a member has prior “history” with another poster who is suddenly elevated to a moderator position, there may be perceptions that future interactions with that individual will be colored by that history - for better or worse, depending on whether the history is positive or negative. (I will say that, to their individual credit, the majority of CAF mods succeed in putting aside their personal bias toward or against members with whom they’ve interacted as posters in a non-mod capacity.)

For the majority of forums there, this does not present particular issues. However, an intended strength of the Eastern Forum was to be that its mod would, himself or herself, be an Eastern Christian, thus be attuned to the issues, familiar with at least some of the personalities, and be able to command a modicum of respect because he was “one of us”. The problem was that “Joe Monahan”  could assert his status as an Eastern Christian, but the anonymity of his new pseudonym precluded posters from recognizing him as someone with whom they might be comfortable - knowing him from elsewhere. So, as well as I knew some of you, none of you knew “Joe” and I was going to have to establish credibility to which I might otherwise have been able to lay claim. Impossible, no, but a difficult obstacle to overcome and one about which I thought long and hard before saying “yes” to the position.

The deciding factor for me was a profound faith in Eastern Christians as a “community”, regardless of their ecclesial affiliation. Now, I’m not naïve. There are “hard-core” Eastern Christians - on both sides - whose capacity for interaction and discussion with their counterparts in the “other” Church about matters religious is nil and would make the average Athonite monk look like an ecumenist of the first order. For such folk, the idea of gracelessness is absolute and hurling anathemas is a practiced art, the likes of which probably has not been seen since Cardinals Humbert and Frederick in Hagia Sophia. For the majority of those willing to even participate in a venue such as CAF, however, I had to believe that they would do so in a manner consistent with Christian charity - which does not require that one be any less passionate about his or her beliefs  or be reticent to express those - only that one know when and how to do it and be willing to accord others the same opportunity, regardless of how much they disagree. In the simplest of terms, to my mind, it‘s the difference between apologetics and polemicism, that between faith and unbridled zealotry.   

And, to your everlasting credit, the overwhelming majority of you met that standard. In the 2.5 (I think) years that I moderated the Eastern forum, the number of Eastern Christians - Orthodox or Catholic - whom I had banned could be counted on less than the fingers of two hands (two of those - both members here - distressed me because I knew them and believed they could be contributory, but they were unwilling to tone down the rhetoric to an acceptable level). Most persons whom I banned were non-Easterners who disrupted the forum despite warnings to cease and desist. (Of those, I regret but one - a poster whom I think I could have salvaged with a bit more effort.) Yes, there were short-term “vacations” from posting, when I thought it was for the best of all concerned, I needed to make a point, or someone pushed me over the edge. I tried - hard - to impose those fraternally or paternally - whichever you prefer - and several here have spoken of such. I must admit that it’s gratifying that most have done so while remarking that they understood why it happened. But, for the most part, order was maintained by gentle chiding in private or the occasional raising of my virtual voice in public.

You folks made me proud, never more so than when one group rallied to the defense of their counterparts when they saw outrageous remarks directed at them by drive-by antagonists or Latin triumphalists who came into the forum, intending to set up shop and “bash” either Orthodox or Catholics.

That the forum was effectively dismantled (restructured is way too kind a term) is despicable, as was the banishment of the Orthodox to the Non-Catholic forum, and the ultimate intellectually dishonest act of banishing valuable contributors on such flimsy pretenses as “requiring too much expenditure of moderation resources”. Regretably, I can offer you no real insight as to why this happened; I am as much in the dark as you.       

In fairness to the staff at CAF, there was little interference with the EC forum for most of my tenure there, by either admin or other mod staff. Although we routinely looked out for one anothers’ forums during times when a forum’s mod was not on-line (in my case, that generally meant US daytime or evening hours), it was almost unknown for a mod to take any action in EC except for a few rare instances of temporarily locking a thread - and only in the most egregious circumstances.

Even when I was off-line for a couple of months due to computer issues, the only mod to actively engage my forum was Marian Carroll, a good friend and my fellow overnighter, whom I asked to cover for me. And, in a tremendous display of loyalty, even the most vociferous among you exercised incredible restraint during my absence - which contributed greatly to my credibility in what was thought of by many as the “hottest” forum on the site - which it really wasn’t. (The Non-Catholic and Apologetics forums were more than capable of making EC look like an agape on the average day.)

Did we ever have issues? Of course! There were allegations of proselytizing and I did have to caution against it in a few instances - a caution that was heeded. There were also a couple cases of conversion by Catholics to Orthodoxy and at least one of Orthodox to Catholicism. On one occasion, the public response was problematic - from both sides - one lamenting and the other celebrating - and I found it necessary to intervene, establishing that it was acceptable to offer prayers for a convert in his or her spiritual quest, but that it was not acceptable to use it as an excuse for triumphalism or disparagement. To his credit, my dear friend and brother, Father Ambrose, was already actively involved - behind the scenes - making the very same point - even before I had seen the thread and reacted to it.

And that was typical of the unique nature of the community we formed there. I daresay that there were few, if any, other forums at CAF in which a mod felt comfortable privately messaging the forum’s 50-60 “regs” to point out that one of more threads had hit CAF’s “hot topics” list and were likely to attract an influx of posters from whom we might expect to see provocative posting. The purpose of doing so - to request restraint and not allowing oneself to get drawn into confrontations that would serve no legitimate purpose of dialogue, discussion, education, or civil debate.  And, you, inevitably, met the challenge. As you did when some newbie posted a query that seemed so elemental as to be ridiculous or which had been answered a hundred times previously. Reminded that, sometimes, a question is just a question, you rallied and sought to provide the best possible responses - bringing some folks along to the point where they became regular and valued participants in their own right.

All in all, I was and remain proud of you, how you represented yourselves, and how your participation reflected on me as the forum moderator. So, it was rather much a surprise when - a few days after being asked to think about ways to increase Eastern Catholic participation on the forum - I was presented with a fiat accompli as to the “restructuring” - meaning that Orthodoxy would be relegated to the Non-Catholic forum. My explanation, a repetition of the argument I presented for an Eastern Christianity forum two plus years previous, that one could not separate discussion of Eastern Catholicism from its historical roots in Orthodoxy nor from the myriad shared aspects of praxis - language, ritual, chant, prayers, iconography, etc - fell on deaf ears.

In retrospect, I was naïve to not realize that this was the beginning of a course of events that was not going to be derailed. The explanation that CAF had been approached by “someone with contacts in the Eastern Catholic community who raised the issue of Eastern Catholics being uncomfortable posting in the EC forum” struck me as patently absurd on several counts. I felt then, and still do, that my own contacts in the on-line EC community were such that I would not have been in the dark were such the case. And, I said that, but my reply got short shrift.

As one of the most senior mods at CAF and because of some particular areas of expertise, I had assumed and/or been delegated a number of specific responsibilities there beyond the EC forum and probably had become too complacent about the security of my position. So, the short and sweet e-mail dispensing with my services because CAF was “moving in new directions” - a message discovered only after I was unable to log into the site, was a shock. More distressing was the discovery that Marian Carroll had likewise been “retired” - apparently because our close working relationship as the “overnight janitorial staff” as we sometimes joked was seen as presenting a risk that might offer me opportunities to be privy to info after the fact of dismissal.

In sum, I was apparently seen as having been entirely too accommodating to my Orthodox brothers and sisters, at the expense of my Catholic brothers and sisters. I’d not be surprised that whomever made these decisions at CAF suspects that I’ll be translating to Orthodoxy any day. In fact, I’ve been an Eastern Catholic for my entire adult life and I will repose as such. Would I embrace the term “Orthodox in Communion with Rome”? I suppose that I could argue that being a Melkite is as close as one can get to being truly that, but I am sympathetic to the fact that my Orthodox brethren find the terminology objectionable and, so, I’ll forego it. Instead, I will carry on as I am - ever hopeful that, if not in my lifetime, in that of my children, the Holy Spirit will guide the hierarchs and peoples of our Churches to find the wisdom and the means to reunite.

Having now gone on for much longer than I intended, let me wrap this up. There are three issues I want to quickly address - Joe’s future, CAF as it is now, and this thread.

Someone wondered if I might be induced or inspired to open a forum, to blog, or otherwise be visible on-line. The answer is no, but I thank you for the thought. Prior to “Joe” appearing at CAF, an on-line community existed and survived and flourished. It is a mistake to think that Joe is necessary to its continuing to do so. OC.net and ByzCath are the proof that it can and does and will . (And I say that with no intent to denigrate Indiana, TAW, or any other on-line venue, but I truly believe that what John Vernoski created at ByzCath and what Dustin, Phil, and Robert created here at OC are, by far, the best of the lot.) I’ll continue participating on-line in my less authoritative persona - known to a half-dozen folk whose discretion I treasure as much as I do their friendship and affection. (By the way, “Joe” has almost disappeared from CAF - a search reveals only 3 of my posts survive on the EC forum, although there are scattered ones elsewhere.)

CAF will survive because of the financial resources available to it. Its EC forum will survive less because it is an essential piece of the geography there than because there is an arrogance inherent in the organization which will resist its dismantling in the face of criticism. I’ve avoided any discussion of the internal workings of the entity (other than talking about the mod pseudonyms) both because it wouldn’t give you much understanding of an enigma and because - despite what they did - I don’t feel that I can ethically do that. As to continued participation there, I echo what my brothers, Irish Melkite, Hesychios, and others have said. I admire, equally, those who have decided against continued involvement (or had that decided for them) and those who have elected to stay, despite the circumstances. That so much material was trashed - despite the promise to “review and restore” selected threads is the height of intellectual dishonesty and speaks volumes. I especially bemoan loss of the Reference Threads and the great discussions that were purely educational - the continued absence of which can’t be defended on any grounds other than outright ignorance.  Interestingly, when it’s not wandering off into inane discussion, the forum there has become very much oriented toward the Oriental Catholic Churches, the Maronites, and the Chaldean Catholics, As my brothers and sisters of those Churches tend to be under-represented in other forums, it may serve a valid purpose in that regard. 

As to this thread, it is a testament to the staff here that it has been continued as long as it has. CAF has had a couple of instances in the past of bannings - individual or small group - that resulted in backlash, in the forms of blogging, websites, e-groups, or small bodies of resistors setting up shop at other sites and carping about it. All were short-lived despite much talk to the contrary from those involved. You folks have maintained your presence and made your voices heard for a good six months and, overall, the quality and tenor of your reactions has been laudable, reasoned, and on-target. You’ve explored, analyzed, pointed out the silliness and small-mindedness of what has transpired. Now, it’s time to move on. I haven’t really looked carefully to see what the level of involvement in this site or at ByzCath is for the individuals who are voicing their issues here. But, you need to bring your knowledge, expertise, and love of your respective Churches to the forefront and put CAF behind you. Don’t forget - we had too good a time for that and we were too good as a group - but, find your niche, here, at ByzCath, at Peter’s new forum, at Indiana, at TAW, wherever. 

I thank Father Chris, Deacon Dustin, Robert, George, and all the staff here (including the mod here who used to post at CAF  Grin ) for their kindness in offering me the opportunity to post this overly long missive. My suggestion would be that this thread quietly close in a day or two - not to preclude forever discussion of CAF - there will be, from time to time, some particularly outrageous event there that merits a new thread here. But, this thread has had its useful life; its mere existence should be a reminder to CAF for a long time to come that the choices they made were poor and wrong.

Finally, my humble prayers for all of you, my dear brothers and sisters. I only wish that I dared to name all of you - but someone would inevitably be overlooked, and I could not reconcile that, but I cannot close without giving recognition to the beloved Hiero-monks Ambrose. Bless, Fathers.

Joe
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« Reply #1541 on: June 03, 2008, 05:19:50 AM »

Joe

How nice to see you reappear  Smiley if only to really say 'goodbye' Sad

Whatever you do do in the future I hope it brings you much satisfaction .

I'll miss you.

Многая літа!

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« Reply #1542 on: June 03, 2008, 05:49:02 AM »

My brothers and sisters,
Joe,
As one moderator to another, I salute you comrade!

George
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« Reply #1543 on: June 03, 2008, 08:00:26 AM »

Joe,
As one moderator to another, I salute you comrade!

George

Amen.
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« Reply #1544 on: June 03, 2008, 08:54:41 AM »

Close this thread? ...never.
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« Reply #1545 on: June 03, 2008, 10:04:08 AM »

Joe,

So good to hear from you.  You have always been fair and balanced in moderating the CAF.  My reins were pulled in a time or two, but we all knew and respected your decisions even though they may have hurt our egos a bit.

In Christ,

JoeS (StMarkEofE)
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« Reply #1546 on: June 03, 2008, 11:11:06 AM »

Joe,

I've never actually met you (at least not as "Joe") since I only joined CAF after this thread started (and largely as a result of it); so hi.

As to continued participation there, I echo what my brothers, Irish Melkite, Hesychios, and others have said. I admire, equally, those who have decided against continued involvement (or had that decided for them) and those who have elected to stay, despite the circumstances.

Yes, that's not an easy choice. Personally, after considering different possibilities, I've been going with the theory that the best compromise is to participate at ECF-CA (the Eastern Catholic forum on the Catholic Answers website) -- not to get into debates and arguments with my fellow ECs so much; but rather to, first, provide basic information about Eastern Catholicism; and, second, to suggest, for anyone asking, resources for digging deeper into Eastern Catholicism/Orthodoxy, such as Bishop Kalistos' books, the ByzCath website and forum, and ...

Peter’s new forum

... and yes, I'm afraid it's true. Grin I even set up my own resource, in the form of a small discussion forum. (Of course, when directing inquirers there, I have to be even more cautious about forum etiquette.)


On a slightly different note, one thing that I've gleaned from various conversations in the past few months (and which I see in your post as well) is that people from the old "Eastern Christianity" forum generally don't want to have a new forum that would be a continuer of that old forum (or I should say "another continuer", since the current ECF-CA is already one continuer of it). I have already come to accept that fact, but I don't think I can really understand it. I don't in any way mean to be disrespectful to any of you (especially since I didn't go through what all of you went through); but it seems to me that, had I been part of that forum, I would want it to continue, even if the lack of CAF-sponsorship meant that it would be somewhat diminished. Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful of any past or current CAF poster.

God bless,
Peter.
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« Reply #1547 on: June 03, 2008, 11:52:00 AM »

I don't in any way mean to be disrespectful to any of you (especially since I didn't go through what all of you went through); but it seems to me that, had I been part of that forum, I would want it to continue, even if the lack of CAF-sponsorship meant that it would be somewhat diminished. Again, I don't mean to be disrespectful of any past or current CAF poster.

For me, it was all about the people who posted there. Since most of them have found their way over here, OC.net works for me. (Plus I get the benefit of all the non-CAF members who post here.)
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« Reply #1548 on: June 03, 2008, 12:07:51 PM »

Greetings Joe,

Christ is Risen!

It is so good to read your words again. I have become all nostalgic again for the old days. Now I have become misty eyed.  Cry


My prayers are with you always.

The worst of sinners,
Mickey

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« Reply #1549 on: June 03, 2008, 02:39:24 PM »

Well spoken Mr. Joe M.


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« Reply #1550 on: June 03, 2008, 04:08:17 PM »



Joe speaks in wisdom, let us be attentive.

Joe, and I mean this, was perhaps one of the best moderators I have ever seen in any form of media. 

I forever will remember our golden days where Joe created an oasis in the middle of a desert.  I think we should take Joe's wisdom and carry forward with the great discussion and friendships we had at CAF.  Let's get back to being us!  Let's start the discussions we used to have again and look forward!  Joe, thank you my brother you have given us wise words that we should all follow.  Thank you for your words and your years as being our coach, moderator, brother, the little whisper in our ear that would say "behave my friend," and one of the best mediators I have known.  I should say it one more time, thank you Joe for being my friend. 
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« Reply #1551 on: June 03, 2008, 06:05:13 PM »

Finally, my humble prayers for all of you, my dear brothers and sisters. I only wish that I dared to name all of you - but someone would inevitably be overlooked, and I could not reconcile that, but I cannot close without giving recognition to the beloved Hiero-monks Ambrose. Bless, Fathers.

Joe
Dear Joe,

my blessing to you for being a friend, a teacher, and a constant source of support. I only wish I can tread on the path of this life with your integrity.

Should you ever decide - whether physically or electronically, and under any identity - to pay a visit here in Turin, let me know, and you will be made to feel at home as much as possible.

Yours ever in Christ,

sinful priest-monk Ambrogio



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« Reply #1552 on: June 04, 2008, 05:39:08 AM »

CAF has a policy, not widely known, that its moderators adopt a pseudonym used only in their mod capacity.

Thank goodness you let us know about this. You have just saved some poor man with the same name from suffering a spontaneous bear hug from me on being introduced  Cheesy

It is good to hear from you again, whatever your name actually is.

John
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« Reply #1553 on: June 04, 2008, 04:01:17 PM »

Joe, it is good to hear from you.  I always respected you as a moderator and never thought anything negative about your moderating.

Padre Ambrogio, it is good to hear from you again too.  I was hoping to see you show up again.  I always thought your posts were very interesting and informative.
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« Reply #1554 on: June 04, 2008, 05:17:49 PM »

Quote
I thank Father Chris, Deacon Dustin, Robert, George, and all the staff here (including the mod here who used to post at CAF  Grin ) for their kindness in offering me the opportunity to post this overly long missive.

Who's that?   HuhTongue Cool j/k

For anyone that doesn't know, when I co-founded OCnet with Robert and Philip back in 2002 it was common knowledge that my given name is Dustin but online I often went by my (Eastern Catholic) confirmation name Anastasios as a moniker or nickname mostly. From the time I became a catechumen in the Orthodox Church and when I was baptized, however, I took the name Anastasios and was ordained as a Deacon with the name Anastasios in April of this year.  So no Deacon Dustin exists that I know of but I know old habits die hard  Cheesy.

Thanks for taking the time to give such an in-depth appraisal of the situation "Joe" and as a fellow moderator I certainly respect what you went through!

In Christ,

Deacon Anastasios
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« Reply #1555 on: June 05, 2008, 06:57:51 AM »

Joe,

Thanks for the reminders of the good times and bad, my friend.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #1556 on: June 05, 2008, 09:49:09 AM »

Dear friend in Christ Joe,

I echo the sentiments of all my friends and colleagues above, we have come such a long way together in such a short time. I became a bit misty eyed reading your account.

Please accept my heartfelt thanks for all your efforts, I will not soon forget what you accomplished. And although I don't expect a response, know that you have my prayers for all good things.

Blessings,
Michael
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« Reply #1557 on: June 06, 2008, 12:00:44 AM »

Well the exile is over  police, but hardly coming home.

I posted a little blurb just to test.  I've been restored.

Just not much to post on anymore.

Solitudinem faciunt et pacem appellant.  They make a desert and call it peace.

Hey Isa -

I got inspired by your restoration and went back and signed in...

And to my utter relief read the following:

_____________________________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Transgression of forum rules

This change will be lifted: Never

_____________________________________________

You have been a joy to me in your posts...

Arsenios
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« Reply #1558 on: June 06, 2008, 12:09:44 AM »

My brothers and sisters...

Joe

Thanks Joe -

You were a good Mod...

I had no idea you had put this much thought into it...

Hope your finances are better by now...

I have moved on...

So here is a little question I thought might be fun to ask:  Can a Mod post under a pseudonym OTHER than his Mod name?  Or even in his own name?  I know the owner of TheologyWeb ran into bags of bites from opponents who felt intimidated in their debatings with her...  I mean, if it were me, I would have a hard time, in a discussion I loved, staying out of the fray just because I was a Mod...

I mean, c'mon... 
It's over now... 
You can tell us... 
We won't tell anyone, promise!  :-)

I mean, didja ever post in any of the threads you moderated as a non-Mod on the EC of CAF???

Arsenios  [Who more than deserved every suspension you ever handed out to him and more!]

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« Reply #1559 on: June 06, 2008, 12:29:08 AM »

Hey Isa -

I got inspired by your restoration and went back and signed in...

And to my utter relief read the following:

_____________________________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
Transgression of forum rules

This change will be lifted: Never

_____________________________________________

You have been a joy to me in your posts...

Arsenios

Good to "see" you Reader.  I was just thinking about you, but couldn't remember what your new identity was here.  A late "Christ is Risen!"
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« Reply #1560 on: June 06, 2008, 01:22:52 AM »

Good to "see" you Reader. 
I was just thinking about you, but couldn't remember what your new identity was here. 
A late "Christ is Risen!"

So where are you doing your posting these days? 
Mine is over at theologyweb.com
I moved 30 miles to be near the mission Church in Ellensburg WA...

Things are changing...

But not God...

"Truly He is Risen!"

Arsenios
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« Reply #1561 on: June 09, 2008, 05:48:05 PM »

This is a new one on me:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=3785448#post3785448


see also:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=245862
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« Reply #1562 on: June 09, 2008, 07:45:09 PM »

You see, normally, when someone transgresses the rules and is banned at CAF, their posts are left in place, and their names appear with the term "BANNED" under them, so that everyone will know that the person is no longer allowed to post...  But you will find nothing of the kind under my name, nor the names of the other Orthodox posters, whose names were not so identified as banned, yet the great majority, if not all, of posts of whom were removed from CAF...

You see, CAF KNEW that they were doing wrong, and wanted to conceal their action from the rest of the members...

Such is the power of darkness...

Arsenios
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« Reply #1563 on: June 10, 2008, 09:41:02 AM »

You see, CAF KNEW that they were doing wrong, and wanted to conceal their action from the rest of the members...

Such is the power of darkness...

Not so subtle--eh?
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« Reply #1564 on: June 10, 2008, 10:36:54 AM »

Dear Reader,

You see, normally, when someone transgresses the rules and is banned at CAF, their posts are left in place, and their names appear with the term "BANNED" under them, so that everyone will know that the person is no longer allowed to post...  But you will find nothing of the kind under my name, nor the names of the other Orthodox posters, whose names were not so identified as banned, yet the great majority, if not all, of posts of whom were removed from CAF...

I agree with you completely. In both my participation on ECF-CA and the setting up of my own "alternative to ECF-CA" discussion forum, one thing I've tried to never lose sight of is the injustice of the secret banning of so many EC and EO posters by CAF mods.

You see, CAF KNEW that they were doing wrong, and wanted to conceal their action from the rest of the members...

I can't say whether they knew they were doing wrong, but I would certainly say they SHOULD have known it's wrong to secretly ban people like that.


What I find "remarkable" about the lastest mod post (the one I linked to above), is the implication that a thread for presenting the Orthodox position would not be allowed in ECF-CA (i.e. it would be relagated to the "Non-Catholic Religions" section of CAF), but a thread for ECs to comment on and respond to the Orthodox position is allowed on ECF-CA. Yikes.
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« Reply #1565 on: June 10, 2008, 01:09:01 PM »

What I find "remarkable" about the lastest mod post (the one I linked to above), is the implication that a thread for presenting the Orthodox position would not be allowed in ECF-CA (i.e. it would be relagated to the "Non-Catholic Religions" section of CAF), but a thread for ECs to comment on and respond to the Orthodox position is allowed on ECF-CA. Yikes.

I also find it to be tragic--the constant implication by the moderation regarding catholicity (or lack thereof). The forum relegates the Orthodox posters to the "non-catholic" forum. It is a constant reiteration that the Orthodox are not catholic. That is why I have ceased posting there. In fact, I may not return in any capacity.

P.S.--I was secretly banned on Steve Ray's forum some time ago. Aparrently, this is a common and shared tactic.  Cry
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« Reply #1566 on: June 10, 2008, 01:55:38 PM »

I also find it to be tragic--the constant implication by the moderation regarding catholicity (or lack thereof). The forum relegates the Orthodox posters to the "non-catholic" forum. It is a constant reiteration that the Orthodox are not catholic. That is why I have ceased posting there. In fact, I may not return in any capacity.

P.S.--I was secretly banned on Steve Ray's forum some time ago. Aparrently, this is a common and shared tactic.  Cry

I've never had a problem on Steve Ray's forum and have always thought they were much more open. Did you PM their Administrator "Siggy" to ask why?
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« Reply #1567 on: June 10, 2008, 02:02:40 PM »

I've never had a problem on Steve Ray's forum and have always thought they were much more open. Did you PM their Administrator "Siggy" to ask why?

How? Good ol Sparky banned me because I was defending Holy Orthodoxy. And she was quite nasty about it. Of course it continues to seem like I am an active member.

I am okay with it though. The members there do not seem very Eastern oriented (including their own in communion with Rome). I sensed much anger there.
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« Reply #1568 on: June 10, 2008, 02:19:38 PM »

I also find it to be tragic--the constant implication by the moderation regarding catholicity (or lack thereof). The forum relegates the Orthodox posters to the "non-catholic" forum. It is a constant reiteration that the Orthodox are not catholic.

What do you expect? It is a Catholic forum, after all. We would not consider Catholics to be orthodox.
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« Reply #1569 on: June 10, 2008, 02:39:45 PM »

What do you expect? It is a Catholic forum, after all. We would not consider Catholics to be orthodox.

I think most Catholics would be appalled if they were considered to be "not orthodox".

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« Reply #1570 on: June 10, 2008, 02:49:27 PM »

How? Good ol Sparky banned me because I was defending Holy Orthodoxy. And she was quite nasty about it. Of course it continues to seem like I am an active member.

I am okay with it though. The members there do not seem very Eastern oriented (including their own in communion with Rome). I sensed much anger there.

I have defended Orthodoxy there but have never had that reaction, so I am surprised that that happened to you. then again, I never posted that much there, nor did I get very direct in my posting. Who knows.
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« Reply #1571 on: June 10, 2008, 02:52:54 PM »

I have defended Orthodoxy there but have never had that reaction, so I am surprised that that happened to you. then again, I never posted that much there, nor did I get very direct in my posting. Who knows.

I must have hit a nerve. This wretched sinner has been known to cross the line at times.  Embarrassed

Peace and blessings to you.
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« Reply #1572 on: June 10, 2008, 03:00:04 PM »

The forum relegates the Orthodox posters to the "non-catholic" forum. It is a constant reiteration that the Orthodox are not catholic.
It's a little war going on between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics. One side says Orthodox are not catholic, the other side says Catholics are not orthodox.
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« Reply #1573 on: June 10, 2008, 04:13:48 PM »

I think most Catholics would be appalled if they were considered to be "not orthodox".

They probably would be. But I would not expect the OC.net moderators to allow discussions of Catholicism in an "Orthodox-only discussion" section of the forum, if there were/is one, just because of the outcry from Catholics.

I don't agree with the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum and replacing it with a weaker, more sanitized version. But I will have to side with CAF on this one for being consistent with their new subforum's stated purpose. If the CAF mods consider Orthodoxy as "non-Catholic," well, I and others do not agree but it is their site. Smiley
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« Reply #1574 on: June 10, 2008, 07:22:08 PM »

a little war going on between Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics. One side says Orthodox are not catholic, the other side says Catholics are not orthodox.

True...gotta luv those US American Catholics
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