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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 268782 times) Average Rating: 0
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the slave
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« Reply #1215 on: March 29, 2008, 12:30:30 PM »

BTW, a simple way for people to determine if someone really is banned is to view their profile and see if there is the option to send them a PM. If not, they can then assume they have been stealth banned. It is of course possible to disable PM's in your profile, but I don't think I have ever come across anyone who had voluntarily done so.

John

John,

Being somewhat an innocent in these matters, I would never have thought of that way of spotting if someone is banned.

I still think it's dishonest banning someone and not tagging them , as they do with most other folk on CAF
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« Reply #1216 on: March 29, 2008, 01:20:53 PM »

If everyone would stop behaving like children over there, there would be no reason for this.

Papist hath spoken!
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« Reply #1217 on: March 29, 2008, 01:27:24 PM »

Being somewhat an innocent in these matters, I would never have thought of that way of spotting if someone is banned.

I still think it's dishonest banning someone and not tagging them , as they do with most other folk on CAF

You may be right. Still, it's nice to learn that the situation there isn't as bad as I had thought.
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« Reply #1218 on: March 29, 2008, 02:29:50 PM »

I certainly think so. If everyone would stop behaving like children over there, there would be no reason for this.

Starting with the so-called Catholic moderators...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1219 on: March 29, 2008, 02:33:30 PM »

I certainly think so. If everyone would stop behaving like children over there, there would be no reason for this.

If the Latin Catholics that know NOTHING about Eastern Orthodoxy of Greek Catholicism (other than what they read online or from their handful of visits to said parishes) would butt out of the conversations at CAF and allow normal conversation to exist from the posters that are Greek Catholic or Eastern Orthodox and have been involved with those associations in real life for an extended period of time talk it would be a little better place.  If the moderators didn't vanish posts when Eastern Orthodox stick up for their faith when some ignorant poster waddles in and slams their faith, well that is beyond words.  It shows the lack of understanding and inward thinking of the ignorant posters who walk into the Eastern Catholic forum and think they know EVERYTHING because they read it on newadvent or wikipedia. 
It's a treachery that the most intelligent Eastern Orthodox AND Eastern Catholic posters haven't been able to stand up for themselves over there now for the better part of half a year.
And I am talking about full time practicing Eastern Catholics, not just a Latin Catholic refugee that makes a mockery of the Byzantine Rite by attending only because the priest faces east, uses incense and the choir doesn't strum a guitar. 
What is failed is that you attend a certain Eastern Catholic pilgrimage and you see the Latins who are mocking the Rusyn Faith, people and their church.  They attend their services without getting to know the praxis, they block their children from communion, the cover their heads with those mantillas, they demand latin devotions be done in the parishes (luckily it doesn't usually happen).  They mock the Eastern Catholic traditions, for them it is another part of the cafeteria where they can pick and choose what THEY want, they have no respect for the Byzantine/Greek Catholics that worship in the parishes they infest.  The Latin refugees are only there because, as I have said before, very rarely a lay person gives out communion, no guitars, father faces east, vestments are pretty, incense is used, and they can sometimes bully a priest into giving them communion while kneeling (I've have seen this MANY times in my day).
It isn't fair just to use the Eastern Catholic parishes as your own personal resort that is a getaway from your dissidence towards the current Roman Missal.
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« Reply #1220 on: March 29, 2008, 02:48:31 PM »

That's not exactly the way being banned from a forum, any forum works. You don't get to present your case to the rest of the forum members in the general forum. You are just banned. That's how it works.
You are still missing the point. I don't think any of us want to have our banishment debated on the forum we just want out status to be shown correctly.


That's all......


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Paisius
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« Reply #1221 on: March 29, 2008, 04:37:39 PM »

Starting with the so-called Catholic moderators...  Roll Eyes
Oh yeah. Following there own rules and trying to keep things private is extremely childish. Give me a break.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1222 on: March 29, 2008, 04:39:11 PM »

You are still missing the point. I don't think any of us want to have our banishment debated on the forum we just want out status to be shown correctly.


That's all......


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Paisius
Because that is the most important issue of the day.
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« Reply #1223 on: March 29, 2008, 04:39:43 PM »

If the Latin Catholics that know NOTHING about Eastern Orthodoxy of Greek Catholicism (other than what they read online or from their handful of visits to said parishes) would butt out of the conversations at CAF and allow normal conversation to exist from the posters that are Greek Catholic or Eastern Orthodox and have been involved with those associations in real life for an extended period of time talk it would be a little better place.  If the moderators didn't vanish posts when Eastern Orthodox stick up for their faith when some ignorant poster waddles in and slams their faith, well that is beyond words.  It shows the lack of understanding and inward thinking of the ignorant posters who walk into the Eastern Catholic forum and think they know EVERYTHING because they read it on newadvent or wikipedia. 
It's a treachery that the most intelligent Eastern Orthodox AND Eastern Catholic posters haven't been able to stand up for themselves over there now for the better part of half a year.
And I am talking about full time practicing Eastern Catholics, not just a Latin Catholic refugee that makes a mockery of the Byzantine Rite by attending only because the priest faces east, uses incense and the choir doesn't strum a guitar. 
What is failed is that you attend a certain Eastern Catholic pilgrimage and you see the Latins who are mocking the Rusyn Faith, people and their church.  They attend their services without getting to know the praxis, they block their children from communion, the cover their heads with those mantillas, they demand latin devotions be done in the parishes (luckily it doesn't usually happen).  They mock the Eastern Catholic traditions, for them it is another part of the cafeteria where they can pick and choose what THEY want, they have no respect for the Byzantine/Greek Catholics that worship in the parishes they infest.  The Latin refugees are only there because, as I have said before, very rarely a lay person gives out communion, no guitars, father faces east, vestments are pretty, incense is used, and they can sometimes bully a priest into giving them communion while kneeling (I've have seen this MANY times in my day).
It isn't fair just to use the Eastern Catholic parishes as your own personal resort that is a getaway from your dissidence towards the current Roman Missal.
YAWN!
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« Reply #1224 on: March 29, 2008, 04:49:50 PM »

Because that is the most important issue of the day.

On this particular topic it's pretty important.  Huh


Yours in Christ
Paisius
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« Reply #1225 on: March 29, 2008, 05:19:07 PM »

Starting with the so-called Catholic moderators...  Roll Eyes
Oh yeah. Following there own rules and trying to keep things private is extremely childish. Give me a break.  Roll Eyes
Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1226 on: March 29, 2008, 05:21:50 PM »

YAWN!
And I think this is precisely the ignorant attitude username is talking about in his post.

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« Reply #1227 on: March 29, 2008, 05:22:22 PM »

^^ Sorry. I know I shouldn't have butted-in, but I just couldn't resist being a part of that loving exchange.
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« Reply #1228 on: March 29, 2008, 05:26:14 PM »

and allow normal conversation to exist from the posters that are Greek Catholic or Eastern Orthodox and have been involved with those associations in real life for an extended period of time  

What about the occasional poster who is Latin Catholic but also knowledgeable about Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox? Shouldn't he/she participate in the conversation as well?

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« Reply #1229 on: March 29, 2008, 05:33:59 PM »

What about the occasional poster who is Latin Catholic but also knowledgeable about Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox?
Ain't no such animal. I think they went the way of the unicorn.
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« Reply #1230 on: March 29, 2008, 08:01:12 PM »

It isn't fair just to use the Eastern Catholic parishes as your own personal resort that is a getaway from your dissidence towards the current Roman Missal.
I don't see where it would be wrong for a R. Catholic to attend a Byzantine Catholic Church.
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« Reply #1231 on: March 29, 2008, 08:30:03 PM »

FMFJIH, but it's not that.  Username!'s (wow is that hard to type) point was, I think, that it is ridiculous for Roman Catholics to go to a Byzantine Catholic Church for the reason that they are escaping from the sorry state of the liturgy (abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass).  And I agree.  What *is* wrong, is for those same Romans to go to a Byzantine Church and then pressure the pastor and the parish as a whole to have devotions such as Rosary, Stations of the Cross, Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, etc..
Those Romans would do well to try to learn about and embrace some of the Eastern traditions, as many of them as possible, IMHO.

And it's so boring over there on CAF that it's very tempting to try to get myself banned just so I have an excuse not to go back   laugh
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« Reply #1232 on: March 29, 2008, 09:00:28 PM »

Ain't no such animal. I think they went the way of the unicorn.

Rare, yes; extinct, not quite yet.   Tongue
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« Reply #1233 on: March 29, 2008, 09:11:17 PM »

Ain't no such animal. I think they went the way of the unicorn.

Rare, yes; extinct, not quite yet.   Tongue

Unfortunately, prejudice isn't so rare.
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« Reply #1234 on: March 29, 2008, 11:08:58 PM »

FMFJIH,....
Sorry for my ignorance, but what does FMFJIH mean?
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« Reply #1235 on: March 29, 2008, 11:38:30 PM »

"Ain't no such animal. I think they went the way of the unicorn."

Really Oz, flattery will get you no where...

james, a sinful poker player   Cool

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« Reply #1236 on: March 30, 2008, 02:54:37 AM »

YAWN!
Yawn all you want, drive by post all you want.  Until you've lived through the refugee incidents, seriously your yawn makes my point even more bold.
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« Reply #1237 on: March 30, 2008, 09:04:50 AM »

Remember I'm the banned member that actually admits it was a just banning.  Tongue

however I'm also fed up with the way that the very few ECs / EOs  there now are having such a grim time of it. People have been brought in somehow to try and get some posts of a decent quality. On the whole the RC Members do not realise this.

The same questions are being asked time and time again .

RCs are very welcome to attend EC Parishes - of that there is no doubt - but we really do not want them trying to compare our services with the ones they want.

We in the East have our own identity , our own praxis .

I still feel, and will continue to say , that CAF's little hiding of the Banned status of some banned members is indefensible
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« Reply #1238 on: March 30, 2008, 11:40:58 AM »

I don't see where it would be wrong for a R. Catholic to attend a Byzantine Catholic Church.

When I was Byz. Catholic, we had some folks come to our Church from the Latin Church who started kneeling during the consecration, saying "AND THE SON" during the filioque, and telling us we should not end the "Our Father" with "For thine is the kingdom" because it sounds "Protestant" (?!)

That is what the above posters are reacting against.
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« Reply #1239 on: March 30, 2008, 11:51:09 AM »

and telling us we should not end the "Our Father" with "For thine is the kingdom" because it sounds "Protestant" (?!)

Wow, really?  Well, that 'thine' sounds awfully Protestant now doesn't it.   Tongue  "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever."  Now that sounds RC.   laugh
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« Reply #1240 on: March 30, 2008, 12:13:44 PM »

Wow, really?  Well, that 'thine' sounds awfully Protestant now doesn't it.   Tongue  "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever."  Now that sounds RC.   laugh

What think Anastasios is referencing is that in the Roman Missal the priest doesn't end the prayer with the "For thine is the Kingdom, etc..." 

P: Let us pray with confidence to the Father, in the words our gave us:

A: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses; as we forgive those who trespass, against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

P: Deliver us, Lord, from every evil, and grant us peace in our day. In your mercy in, keep us free from sin, and protect us from all anxiety, as we wait in joyful hope for coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ:

C: For the kingdom,the power, and the glory  are yours, now and forever.

That is how the Our Father is done in the Roman Missal (current, normative mass). 

Anastasios hits the nail on the head with his post.
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« Reply #1241 on: March 30, 2008, 12:16:40 PM »

Friul,

Wow, really?  Well, that 'thine' sounds awfully Protestant now doesn't it.   Tongue  "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and for ever."  Now that sounds RC.   laugh

I was more shocked to hear that some RCs are 'saying "AND THE SON" during the filioque'.

- Peter.

(Seriously, though, I do think it's terrible when Latin Catholics go into an EC parish and try to fix things to their own likings -- particularly changing the Creed.)
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« Reply #1242 on: March 30, 2008, 02:51:20 PM »

When I attend a Latin rite Catholic mass, I don't say the filioque during the Creed.  I wonder if Latin Catholics would object to the omission?  Then again, I believe the Catholic Church affirms the validity of the Creed without the filioque, so perhaps no one would mind.
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« Reply #1243 on: March 30, 2008, 03:09:20 PM »

Where ever I attend I follow and respect their norms, it is common sense to do a little research...


"Stupidity is also a gift from God, but one mustn't misuse it". + Pope John Paul II ...

Rampant amongst the many I say...

pax


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« Reply #1244 on: March 30, 2008, 03:33:07 PM »

When I attend a Latin rite Catholic mass, I don't say the filioque during the Creed.  I wonder if Latin Catholics would object to the omission?  Then again, I believe the Catholic Church affirms the validity of the Creed without the filioque, so perhaps no one would mind.

I know what you mean, as I face that dilemma myself whenever I attend a Sunday mass at a Latin Catholic Church. I'm not entirely keen on saying the filioque, but I also don't feel right saying one creed while everyone else says a different creed. (That's just my own personal feeling on the matter, for what it's worth.)

Blessings,
Peter.
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« Reply #1245 on: March 30, 2008, 03:36:29 PM »

I wonder if Latin Catholics would object to the omission? 

I don't think many Latins would object per se; but I imagine some of the more, shall we say, "activist" Latins might use it as a justification for inserting the filioque when they themselves are at an EC parish.

-Peter.
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« Reply #1246 on: March 30, 2008, 06:05:06 PM »

Hello everybody! Hieromonk Ambrogio is still around...  Wink

Got a PM note today - had a message from user "natural36dd" on CAF.

Since it was the first PM in quite a few months, I opened my CAF mailbox to read it (yep I am still there - unbanned and seemingly unharmed).

Now the surprise - the message had been deleted, and seemingly even user "natural36dd" had vanished into thin air.

...is Big Brother at work again?  Huh

Yours in Crist,

hieromonk Ambrogio
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« Reply #1247 on: March 30, 2008, 08:56:46 PM »

Padre,

That user name sounds like a reference to a woman's bosom...beware

james
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« Reply #1248 on: March 30, 2008, 09:12:05 PM »

"natural36dd"

Father, bless!

I'm sorry, but that screen-name sounds like one set up to promote materials that are not appropriate.  This may be a reason why you can't find their user account.  Here on OC.net, if a user posts pornographic material we will immediately ban them, and edit their post or delete it entirely.  For porn spammers, we have a "one strike and you're out" policy, for the protection of our members.  This may indeed be why the PM to you was deleted (if it contained inappropriate material or links), and may be why the account is gone.
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« Reply #1249 on: March 30, 2008, 10:42:12 PM »

My good old USN gray matter is well trained to detect such...

pax
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« Reply #1250 on: March 30, 2008, 10:45:11 PM »

It was a porn spam, and I forwarded it to Ms. Grant.  It seems that hundreds of members received the message under a couple different post names.

I haven't logged in for ages, but since I had a few people I had been privately conversing with, I thought I should check in.

Unfortunately my message didn't auto delete and I got an eyeful. Shocked

And I also found myself dragged into an exchange on Reformation and the East.....there was the usual banter...no facts and then an offhand remark (question?) about one Patriarch of Constantinople a Calvinist or something?

I gave a quick run down of the Tübingen exchange  and the results.(I felt I had to state I spoke as a  former cradle Lutheran, not as an Eastern Orthodox...why should I feel I have to walk on eggshells like that?)
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« Reply #1251 on: March 30, 2008, 11:20:39 PM »

It was a porn spam, and I forwarded it to Ms. Grant.  It seems that hundreds of members received the message under a couple different post names.

I haven't logged in for ages, but since I had a few people I had been privately conversing with, I thought I should check in.

Unfortunately my message didn't auto delete and I got an eyeful. Shocked

And I also found myself dragged into an exchange on Reformation and the East.....there was the usual banter...no facts and then an offhand remark (question?) about one Patriarch of Constantinople a Calvinist or something?

I gave a quick run down of the Tübingen exchange  and the results.(I felt I had to state I spoke as a  former cradle Lutheran, not as an Eastern Orthodox...why should I feel I have to walk on eggshells like that?)

Actually, what they would be refering to would not be EP Jeremiah of the Tubingen exchange, but Cyril Lucraris, whose writings were condemned at the Synod of Jerusalem.  (btw, I'm a fellow former cradle Luteran).
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« Reply #1252 on: March 30, 2008, 11:25:03 PM »

Actually, what they would be refering to would not be EP Jeremiah of the Tubingen exchange, but Cyril Lucraris, whose writings were condemned at the Synod of Jerusalem.  (btw, I'm a fellow former cradle Luteran).

I have a strange feeling we have met.
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« Reply #1253 on: March 31, 2008, 11:09:48 AM »

Ain't no such animal. I think they went the way of the unicorn.
Oh my. Just because some of us Latin Catholics think Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics are often very wrong, does not mean we are ignorant of them.
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« Reply #1254 on: March 31, 2008, 11:13:21 AM »

When I attend a Latin rite Catholic mass, I don't say the filioque during the Creed.  I wonder if Latin Catholics would object to the omission?  Then again, I believe the Catholic Church affirms the validity of the Creed without the filioque, so perhaps no one would mind.
We would mind because our tradition and our rubrics for our Liturgy include the filioque. Yes, it does not need to be in the Creed for the Greeks, but it is required in our Liturgy. This would be like me going to a Ruthenian parish and explicitly reciting the filioque as part of the Creed just to make a point. That would be unacceptable.
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« Reply #1255 on: March 31, 2008, 11:27:55 AM »

Oh my. Just because some of us Latin Catholics think Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics are often very wrong, does not mean we are ignorant of them.
Um...you've personally twice retracted things you've said based on your misonceptions of Eastern Orthodoxy on this forum.
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« Reply #1256 on: March 31, 2008, 12:29:18 PM »

We would mind because our tradition and our rubrics for our Liturgy include the filioque. Yes, it does not need to be in the Creed for the Greeks, but it is required in our Liturgy. This would be like me going to a Ruthenian parish and explicitly reciting the filioque as part of the Creed just to make a point. That would be unacceptable.
I think there is a difference, though.  The Catholic Church affirms that it is not heretical to say the Creed without the filioque.  The Orthodox Church affirms that it is heretical to say it with the filioque.  If I, as a person who is not sure about the orthodoxy of the filioque, go to a Catholic Church and omit the filioque (in a quiet manner, without drawing attention to myself), I am only speaking in accordance with what I believe to be true.  Quite likely, no one around me will even notice.  To say the filioque just to fit in with the rubrics of the liturgy would be to make a mockery of the Creed.  What is the point of saying the Creed if I don't completely agree with it?  I attend Catholic mass because I am trying to learn more about the Catholic Church, and I truly believe God is worshipped there.  However, I am not going to follow along with something I do not agree with just to make the people around me feel better.

If a Jewish or Muslim person was to visit a Catholic Church, out of a desire to learn more about Catholicism, yet did not feel right saying any of the Creed, would he or she be unwelcome?  If you answer that they would be welcome (and I hope you do), then surely a fellow Christian would be welcome, particularly one who says a version of the Creed which the Catholic Church fully affirms as orthodox?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2008, 12:30:38 PM by The Iambic Pen » Logged
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« Reply #1257 on: March 31, 2008, 12:41:55 PM »

Oh my. Just because some of us Latin Catholics think Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics are often very wrong, does not mean we are ignorant of them.

Well - 'twas a Latin Bishop who told me I ws a heretic for going to the UGCC Sad
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« Reply #1258 on: March 31, 2008, 03:33:54 PM »

This would be like me going to a Ruthenian parish and explicitly reciting the filioque as part of the Creed just to make a point.

Man! did I call that one or what?
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« Reply #1259 on: March 31, 2008, 03:38:51 PM »

The Iambic Pen,

I realize your post is directed towards Papist, but here are my own thoughts on it, for what it's worth.

As I mentioned previously, I "don't feel right saying one creed while everyone else says a different creed". That is to say, if you're in a parish which says the creed with the filioque (e.g. a Latin or Maronite Catholic parish) it doesn't seem right to me, personally, to omit only the filioque (thus saying a different creed than the one everyone else is saying, albeit not an incompatible creed, in my view). On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with an Orthodox or an EC who visits a Latin parish and chooses to keep silent during the creed (nor a Latin Catholic who visits an EC or EO parish and chooses to keep silent during the creed).

God bless,
Peter.
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