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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 277514 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #1125 on: February 01, 2008, 09:20:58 PM »

How would you suggest that we be more in keeping with the message of the Gospel?
Would you suggest we remove the Orthodox-Catholic Discussion Forum and merge it with the "Western Rite Orthodox Forum" and secretly ban Roman Catholic posters?

A pink slip in my future?   Wink laugh
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« Reply #1126 on: February 01, 2008, 11:02:33 PM »

Haven't gotten banned yet, but boy do they love to move posts around.  There was one thread in particular that was over the edge anti-Orthodox over "there."  Some of us posted in response and you know what?  They moved the answers to just enough different "new threads" that the defense argument got split up and the Anti-Orthodoxy still shines.  It's funny.  On the Eastern Catholic board the posts/threads are to be informative for non-Eastern Catholics.  So I WAS Greek Catholic.  So why then are the catholics that prefer ancient languages allowed to chime in with their own two cents while not adding solid answers based on years of being an Eastern Catholic?  But yet, when those who do have the Easetern Catholic life experience are basically silenced.  So it's a place to get answers but those that have the answers and give them without a biased approached are taken out. 
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« Reply #1127 on: February 02, 2008, 01:56:56 AM »

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:
Was that one deleted as well?
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« Reply #1128 on: February 02, 2008, 03:02:24 AM »

Was that one deleted as well?

Oddly enough, no.

Though it is way down on page four of Non-Catholic Religions so it is not easy to find.
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« Reply #1129 on: February 02, 2008, 04:06:23 AM »

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:I've also had another post deleted where I also mentioned the banning. I'm surprised I didn't receive a caution for that one too.

John, my friend,

If you get by with only a month for that, I'll be most surprised, although Catherine's efforts these days appear to be much taken up with policing threads to assure that topics are split off as often as is necessary to segment discussion.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #1130 on: February 02, 2008, 12:29:05 PM »

Regardless of who was brought in, the forum has hit the bottom and landed on spikes.
Sadly, CA Forum appears to have turned into an anti-Orthodox and anti-Eastern Catholic diatribe.
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« Reply #1131 on: February 02, 2008, 01:54:57 PM »

Well it has taken me long enough but I have finally earned a one month suspension. Unlike most here I did actually have to push the envelope a bit, so I definitely deserved this. I had responded to spikman asking for assurance about his decision to move towards Orthodoxy, saying:I've also had another post deleted where I also mentioned the banning...
The thing to do, I have found, is to make the post knowing it will probably not last long in that state, but send an exact copy by PM to the intended recipient.

If any part of your post is deleted you can be sure the recipient will become very aware of that.

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« Reply #1132 on: February 04, 2008, 01:33:45 AM »

Regardless of who was brought in, the forum has hit the bottom and landed on spikes.
There is no way anyone can man a defence for Orthodox over there now.  I guess the war is officially over, especially when they start threads attacking Eastern Orthodox and there isn't any substance to a single post in those threads and I simply can't say anything, I'm going toe-to-toe with the two or three main opinion groups that make up the posts on the forum anymore.  I know the responses and I would be lead into citing, referencing and making elaborate replies to the post and they'd just repeat themselves and not argue with any academic style.
Example:
P:Eastern Orthodox are all ________ ________ because on this date _____ this happened and in _______
the great Pope ________ made this comment.  Therefore they are out of the church and there is no salvation or grace.. blah blah blah

Response:  Enough information to get your master's thesis in front of the judges

P:  there is no salvation outside of the church and therefore the Eastern Orthodox have ________ and are _______ because the Pope is ___________ and therefore I'm right and everyone else is wrong

There is no point in wasting time if it isn't going to be read or disputed with a real post!!!!!  That is the point of discussion. 
If that forum wants to look and support attitudes that run contrary to the position of the Roman Catholic Church, then so be it.  I know there are plenty of knowledge laden Eastern Catholics that read all of these boards that could add much over there.  Because not only are the Orthodox ridiculed the Eastern Catholics are as well. 
It is a shame when the forum was to revert back to an informational spot for Catholics to learn about the Eastern Rites, which is one thing... but when it turns into a place for attacks by Catholics against Catholics... that's just a whole other box of cigars. 
And while I am ranting, I have seen the latin-refugee attitude that the Eastern churches are just good enough to escape the mass in the Roman churches, they aren't mindful of the very deep and cultural histories of the churches they use as a feel good place and they aren't respectful enough to learn the different methods of worship or anything about the community.  They just demonstrate that it is just another offering on the buffet table of Catholicism they get to choose from whenever one Rite of Worship style tires them.  This is not what the Eastern Churches are made for, I can assure you that.
They are communities that were formed by and most likely still consist of families who have strong and old country ties to the very existence of the particular sui juris church in the first place.  These members are are Greek Catholic/Byzantine Catholic not only by their personal convictions but also by actual historical events that happened to their ancestors.  When people go in and use their churches as feel good places it is a mockery of not only the church members beliefs but also their shared heritage.  While there is nothing wrong about attending a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church* as a Latin Catholic one should be mindful of the history of the people and why they have a UGCC and also perhaps more important, or another part of the equation, they should be willing to learn and understand the worship practices of the Byzantine Rite. 
Anyway, I'm done ranting.

*I chose the UGCC for this example but you could insert any of the Eastern Catholic Churches.
Everyone one of them has a history to their existence.  For example, besides the historical happenings in the mid to late 1600's the UGCC exists as it does today because the persecution during the Soviet rule created a strong faith among the Ukrainian Catholics and after communism fell the UGCC came out of the catacombs with their faith having been made stronger by the trials they faced.  I don't care what a person's argument for or against the Eastern Catholic churches are, you simply can not help but admiring the faith and love for the church despite such persecution.  Things to remember, everyone has a story, sometimes the story should be very respected even though you may have different beliefs. 

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #1133 on: February 04, 2008, 11:50:49 AM »

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.
And may I add that you and Isa have done a superb job on that thread. You will be an asset to Holy Orthodoxy!
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« Reply #1134 on: February 04, 2008, 10:22:36 PM »

I agree. Isa and myself have been arguing a couple guys in a thread callled "Unstructured Thread". We've been mopping the floor with these guys by buliding arguments cited on historical facts, canons, and scriptures while picking apart their fallacious responses. (A common tactic of theirs has been to throw a dozen quotes at us without even trying to explain what it is they are trying to prove). Anyway, it gets tiring like running around in circles. They are not interested in honest debate only diatribes. I think that I've learned all that I can over there and am ready to take more steps to enter the Orthodox Church.

I just read that thread. I can't believe that poster has not been banned yet. The best part is how calm the Orthodox responses are.
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« Reply #1135 on: February 05, 2008, 04:19:31 AM »

I got to say you  Micky, isa, and varc did a most exellent job in defense of holy orthodox on catholic answers  non catholic sub-forum.....i just got thru reading your posts.....God bless you all .....keep up the good work .....stashko
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« Reply #1136 on: February 08, 2008, 02:30:56 AM »

Sadly, CA Forum appears to have turned into an anti-Orthodox and anti-Eastern Catholic diatribe.

Isn't that the truth...Sad

I find myself posting less and less on there. Most of the time, I just sit back and watch. Some of the responses really tick me off though, especially when people try to rewrite history. My favorite is when people say the Orthodox left the Church and are therefore schismatic. Oh please! It was Rome who sent them/us (would have been in same boat at that time) away! Even though I am still Catholic, I will certainly not back such false notions or anti-Orthodox sentimates--especially as I seek to be more like an Orthodox under Rome and maybe someday soon (still praying while I study), fully Orthodox Wink
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« Reply #1137 on: March 03, 2008, 07:37:26 AM »

Ah, you gotta love em.
I pop into the forums for the first time since my suspension has ended and look what awaits me
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It appears that you have not posted on our forums in quite some time. Why not take a few moments to:

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« Reply #1138 on: March 03, 2008, 12:07:25 PM »

Ah, you gotta love em.
I pop into the forums for the first time since my suspension has ended and look what awaits me Grin

Yes, I noticed your return.

I've posted more as it seems that they can't keep a lid on Orthodoxy, at most moving it to "Non-Catholic Forum"
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« Reply #1139 on: March 03, 2008, 02:10:41 PM »

Quote
Why not take a few moments to...
I suggest you take this as a rhetorical question because answering it may get you banned.
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« Reply #1140 on: March 03, 2008, 02:37:01 PM »

I get that warming miss you notice by email...

I use stealth mode and cruise by once in a while and shake my head, what poor catechisment exists within the American Catholic Church...

Too much happy clappy we are the church and a lack of real penance...

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« Reply #1141 on: March 04, 2008, 02:55:37 PM »

I received ten infraction points yesterday. What does this mean?
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« Reply #1142 on: March 04, 2008, 03:06:23 PM »

I received ten infraction points yesterday. What does this mean?
I don't know. I recieved twenty last week.
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« Reply #1143 on: March 04, 2008, 03:30:39 PM »

It probably means you're doing something faithful to Church teaching Wink
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« Reply #1144 on: March 04, 2008, 03:39:36 PM »

I don't know. I recieved twenty last week.
You and I may be headed for the dog house together.
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« Reply #1145 on: March 04, 2008, 04:33:56 PM »

You and I may be headed for the dog house together.
Its all good. We can spend our days there bickering like we do at Catholic Answers. LOL  Smiley
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« Reply #1146 on: March 04, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »

I had had some points before I was given the boot. I had ten points before I was "locked" out.
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« Reply #1147 on: March 05, 2008, 11:12:01 AM »

We can spend our days there bickering like we do at Catholic Answers. LOL  Smiley
Perhaps that is a pre-taste of purgatory? Wait a minute--purgatory does not exist!  Wink
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« Reply #1148 on: March 05, 2008, 02:06:10 PM »

Perhaps that is a pre-taste of purgatory? Wait a minute--purgatory does not exist!  Wink
It doesn't?  Huh
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« Reply #1149 on: March 05, 2008, 06:14:59 PM »

It doesn't?  Huh

Sorry papist it doesn't Cheesy
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« Reply #1150 on: March 08, 2008, 03:45:47 PM »

I think I'm in the right place.....I'd wave but there are no animated smilies here!
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« Reply #1151 on: March 08, 2008, 04:29:09 PM »

I think I'm in the right place.....I'd wave but there are no animated smilies here!

Oh you're in the right place alright.
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« Reply #1152 on: March 08, 2008, 05:08:50 PM »

I think I'm in the right place.....I'd wave but there are no animated smilies here!

Welcome!
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« Reply #1153 on: March 09, 2008, 06:18:04 PM »

I had had some points before I was given the boot. I had ten points before I was "locked" out.

I used to post there.  I actually posted there until I found this website.  I received a warning for coming to the defense of a couple of Orthodox Christians who were responding to some nasty comments that a Roman Catholic poster was leaving on several threads.  I had been growing tired of the way Orthodox Christians were being treated there for some time prior to this, so I just stopped posting.  The warning was the last straw for me.  Before I stopped, though, I sent the moderator a response to her warning, telling her what I thought of what I perceive as the double standard there.  Also, too many of the people there are just rude in general.  I've been made to feel much more welcome here.
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« Reply #1154 on: March 09, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »

Oh you're in the right place alright.

So....where to go from here?  I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself?  I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons.  I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.
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« Reply #1155 on: March 09, 2008, 07:41:12 PM »

So....where to go from here?  I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself?  I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons.  I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

Go ahead and ask you questions in Convert Issues or Faith, as appropriate, and we'll do our best to be helpful and find answers for you.  If you feel comfortable, don't be afraid to ask your questions in any of the fora which may be appropriate (i.e. a Liturgical question in Liturgy, etc).  If you start a thread in a place that maybe doesn't make sense to the moderators, fear not - we'll move the thread and leave behind a re-direct post so you know where it went.

If you have any more questions about how things run here on OC.net, just ask here, or PM me.
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« Reply #1156 on: March 09, 2008, 07:42:49 PM »

So....where to go from here?  I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself?  I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons.  I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.
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« Reply #1157 on: March 09, 2008, 10:20:27 PM »

So....where to go from here?  I thought perhaps to go to the convert issues board and introduce myself?  I certainly do have questions, and I think they can only be answered by Orthodox, for several reasons.  I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.


Welcome!  I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc....  So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from.   As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy.  She's now family to me.  So welcome to the board!  You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. 
But I agree with you.  You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point.  I know you won't get them from the CAF forums.  Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex.  But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. 
I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox.  I am well aware of both worlds through and through.  I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox.  What I am saying is, I can  help you with your questions.  If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you. 
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« Reply #1158 on: March 11, 2008, 01:55:09 PM »

I think I'm in the right place.....I'd wave but there are no animated smilies here!
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Wot?!   No animated smilies??!!
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« Reply #1159 on: March 11, 2008, 02:17:26 PM »


Welcome!  I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc....  So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from.   As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy.  She's now family to me.  So welcome to the board!  You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. 
But I agree with you.  You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point.  I know you won't get them from the CAF forums.  Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex.  But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. 
I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox.  I am well aware of both worlds through and through.  I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox.  What I am saying is, I can  help you with your questions.  If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you. 


thanks (again!)  I had a good chuckle over your characterization of the folks over at CAF.  I have friends like that; very interested in learning *about* the Eastern Churches, even attending the liturgies etc., but when it comes to *being* Eastern, well, so sorry but they'll stick to their Rosaries and Stations, Exposition & Benediction, they are breathing with both lungs.....I can't do it that way, it's an all or nothing (not that I think the above-mentioned are wrong, but the popular devotions of the latin rite have never really struck a chord with me.  And the recent changes in the Ruthenian DL are a step away from authenticity IMHO.  So it is to the Orthodox I must come for education.)

And Irish Hermit, you stole that smilie from CAF!!!
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« Reply #1160 on: March 11, 2008, 02:39:47 PM »

And Irish Hermit, you stole that smilie from CAF!!!
I must protest. LOL!   CAF gathered its smilies from a variety of free sources.  I was on there at the time when they added a lot of new and quite good smilies.  They asked us to help find them.

Here, have a shamrock for Saint Patrick's day
« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 02:42:10 PM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #1161 on: March 11, 2008, 02:43:43 PM »

I definitely know better (now) than to ask the questions I have on the EC board at CAF.

To be perfectly honest, I've come to be fairly skeptical (cynical?) about internet discussion forums. Nevertheless, I would definitely call oc-net a step-up from CAF -- to take just the most obvious consideration, oc-net moderators don't resort to secretly banning posters they don't like.

To quote Ralph and Kermit: "I hope that something better comes along" (The Muppet Movie). Until that time, you can be sure that it will be oc-net and not CAF I'll be posting on.

God bless,
Peter.
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« Reply #1162 on: March 11, 2008, 07:37:12 PM »


Welcome!  I was Greek Catholic and spent a lot of time in the Ruthenian parish as they had the Feast day liturgies, pre-sanctified liturgies etc....  So feel free to bounce questions towards me as I can relate to you and know where you are coming from.   As a matter of fact it was one of the posters here (also from my area) who helped push me off the fence into Orthodoxy.  She's now family to me.  So welcome to the board!  You can also private message me as well if you have a question you aren't comfortable asking in the public forum. 
But I agree with you.  You have to have solid non-polemical answers at this point.  I know you won't get them from the CAF forums.  Many of them are roman catholics of the latin rite who wouldn't know a Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church if they wrecked their car into its narthex.  But somehow they read four articles on new advent and they're experts. 
I also grew up in a split family, half Catholic half Orthodox.  I am well aware of both worlds through and through.  I also know the doctrinal differences of the Greek/Byzantine Catholics and the Orthodox.  What I am saying is, I can  help you with your questions.  If you give me one that I can't answer believe me I can get the answer for you. 


Dupa.  Now there's a term I haven't heard in years. Tongue
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« Reply #1163 on: March 13, 2008, 02:25:17 AM »

Haven't been over here for a few weeks because of some demands on my time and haven't read CAF much of late - the latter because, as several of my friends have noted, it is so incredibly depressing - particularly the EC forum. However, I did stop and skim it a few days ago and it's gotten so much worse that it's scary. You've got folks over there presenting themselves as "expert" and who have no idea what they are talking about.

There's a relative newbie there named belgianwaffles or somesuch who posts with regular reference to how "knowledgeable" he is. Then, one reads a post in which he asserts, unequivocably, as to how Mar Dinkha is about to lead the Assyrian Church into communion with Rome. It was so frustrating to not be able to put fingers to keyboard and point out to the idiot that Mar Bawai is a decidedly different person than Mar Dinkha. And that's only the tip of the iceberg. (The same clown has declared his assuredness that my Church is 'the most latinized' of the EC Churches; he's admittedly never been in one, but thinks he'll check one out during school break and see what latinizations he can spot).

Despite the fact that CAF has picked up the occasional input of a couple of excellent posters from ByzCath (one Deacon, in particular), as  Michael noted, none of them seem to be looking beyond the immediate post and seeing the overall flawed nature of the place. It's my sense that they've been 'lured' there in response to a "help, we need some knowledgeable ECs" - but, for the majority of them, ByzCath is still "home"; they'll contribute to CAF from a sense of duty to defend/promote their Churches, but they aren't 'moving in' to become the resident CAF Eastern experts.

The small coterie of Oriental Catholics there are trying to hold there own and helped a bit by the fact that they're too 'foreign' to most of the clueless Latins to be the subject of much attention. Other than the ByzCath imports, and a few ByzCath folk who have long posted there occasionally (like Al/a pilgrim - a dear friend to both Michael and me), the landscape is pretty barren. As before, I thank those few of my Orthodox friends and brothers who are still there for stepping in to try and keep some semblance of accuracy in countering the "facts" offered by those whose knowledge of East is principally that it's a compass marking.  It would be a blessing were they to shut that forum down - it offers so little in terms of meaningful, accurate info about Eastern Catholicism that Keating should consider its continued existence an embarrassment.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #1164 on: March 13, 2008, 04:10:26 PM »

. . . It would be a blessing were they to shut that forum down - it offers so little in terms of meaningful, accurate info about Eastern Catholicism that Keating should consider its continued existence an embarrassment.

Many years,

Neil
I agree.

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« Reply #1165 on: March 13, 2008, 04:15:00 PM »



The small coterie of Oriental Catholics there are trying to hold there own and helped a bit by the fact that they're too 'foreign' to most of the clueless Latins to be the subject of much attention.
That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.  Angry
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« Reply #1166 on: March 13, 2008, 06:06:18 PM »

Quote
That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.

Been looking at that and trying to make sense of it - I know my brain is not at it's best at the moment but .....


As to that other place - I can't get over some of the daft things that are being posted at present - too many folk are just going to get really 100% confused .

As to that Belgian Waffles person - I'm longing to see the finished work on the Eastern Churches - I think it will be as confusing as anything he/she/it has posted.

Agreed - time it was shut down
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« Reply #1167 on: March 13, 2008, 06:44:07 PM »

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.  Angry

Yes, that is what Rome demands you to hold, isn't it?  Of course, then there's that whole Honorius thing and the papal oath, etc.

It would seem what you are complaining about is East/West=Bad.

Otherwise, I don't see what you are complaining about.
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« Reply #1168 on: March 13, 2008, 08:52:13 PM »

The same clown has declared his assuredness that my Church is 'the most latinized' of the EC Churches;
I think he's confusing you guys with Maronites.

he's admittedly never been in one,
So his assessment is based on.....?

but thinks he'll check one out during school break and see what latinizations he can spot
I hope he manages to do so and doesn't get detention for flying paper planes in class.
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« Reply #1169 on: March 13, 2008, 10:07:46 PM »

That's right. Any Catholic who holds to the actual teachings of the Church is clueless. I am so sick of this East= Good, West = Bad attitude. Especially when you consider the fact that it is the West that has always remained orthodox.  Angry

Thank you, Papist. Your post illustrates why I don't participate on CAF.
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