Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion

[Ziggernaut]

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Gee....now there's a surprise!

[Alexius]

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

"I will not lie down, I will not go quietly!" Don Henley

[stashko]

Perhaps you should strive for consistency and refrain from asking such questions...  

On the Byzantine forum, in relation to this matter, you said:

Source: Link Disabled
.

Brother Heracleides :Your Good i don;t know how to post a link from there to here...i need your help their ..your education level is way up there...stashko

[wynd]

I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.

I'd like to read this. Can you post it or send it to me?

[paradoxy]

This is the long-awaited public explanation for the secret bans:

Link Disabled

The article on the reasons why members are banned has been copied into the thread above by Catherine Grant. All that I can add to it is this:
CAF does not discuss with third parties the cases of individual members out of respect for their privacy. If they wish to make known their case, that is their privilege; we only ask that you keep in mind that there are two sides to every story. Because we choose not to violate privacy, all you likely will hear in such instances is what the member chooses to make public, which likely will be only pieces of the story and only those pieces that reflect well on the individual.
When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.
If you have any questions or concerns about specific mod/admin actions, we ask you to please contact a mod privately by PM or write to the administration staff at forumadmin@catholic.com. Although we cannot discuss individual cases with you, we would be happy to explain general protocol.

Is it just me, or is this meant to be even more insulting and infuriating? This reads: Fr Ambrose and other long-standing Orthodox posters have indeed committed serious offenses, but CAF has charitably allowed them to keep up appearances for the sake of their dignity!?

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?    

[the slave]

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Hear ! Hear !!

[the slave]

Please Note - there is still nothing about the return of all the threads that were archived . Nor was there any indication that  a 2 week gap - when a poster could have posted , was an inappropriate delay before a banning was imposed.

My concerns , that I posted publicly there, about the missing threads and info, was not answered

The administration will respond to your concerns today. Please do not post any new threads on this topic.

[Anastasios]

The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.

[paradoxy]

The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.

Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  .

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever... 

[Athanasios]

Hello,

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?    

Father Ambrose (and many others) many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us. We were all guilty of it at one time or another - and it is technically against their forum rules. But, that is exactly the type of dialogue that formed us into a type of family. No family is without is arguments and quarrels, but we all respected each other.

[Anastasios]

Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  .

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever... 

Well like I said, we understand your feelings. I myself and a few other posters were once banned from a similar (although much smaller) Catholic forum once, without at least in my case my having broken any rules. That made me quite sad.

[Irish Hermit]

Father Ambrose ....... many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us.

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

[stashko]

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

Father;
I wish i knew more orthodoxTheology and the Holy Fathers ,i would give them a good run for there money , the R C.at the byzatine forum......at least our eastern catholic brothers/and sisters know about the injustice......stashko

[Athanasios]

Hello,

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

I guess I used you particularly to describe generally. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you. Of course, sometimes others may take posts to mean something they aren't intended to mean (i.e., curt comment as an all-out assault). You must admit that a wide assortment of smilies can help to ease such situations. 

P.S. - what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory. 

[maqhth]

Father Ambrose ... many times went beyond simple information exchange...

Do you really think, Athanasios, that "simple information exchange" is even desirable, when the salvation of souls is at stake?  Have you ever read an anathema?  Does it sound at all like a "simple information exchange"

Arsenios

ps - Final Theosis is not an Orthodox term...

It is an oxymoron used by an RC poster on CAF...

[Apotheoun]

. . . what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory. 

Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God

[ozgeorge]

Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God

Guys,
Please keep this thread on topic.
George

[Apotheoun]

In a way my comment is on topic, because theological clarifications of this kind are why CAF has barred Eastern Orthodox (and some Eastern Catholics) from posting.   

[Papa Gregorio]

Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.

[ozgeorge]

Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.

They still don't get it!
One response to your post reads:
"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.
__________________
I think you
need glasses"

[Apotheoun]

I think some people at CAF are in denial.

[Alexius]

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

I was under the impression that this unnamed individual held that those in heaven were experiencing the final theosis, which is not possible since theosis nevers ends...nevermind that--It is rediculous what happened on CAF!

[Alexius]

I think some people at CAF are in denial.

Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust?

[ozgeorge]

Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust?

Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime?

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:

[Jetavan]

Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime?

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:

Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!

[ozgeorge]

Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!

Check the Eastern Catholic Forum, 'taint there no more...... nor are any of the 6 responses to it (the top of the first one is visible in the second photo).

[ozgeorge]

EDIT: to be fair, they now do give a reason - 'publicly discussing moderator actions'

Hey, I didn't know infallibility extended to moderators!
I wonder how I can use my own "Divine Right of Moderators" to remove threads, lock people out of the forum, and then ban anyone who dares question me?

[stashko]

I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko

[Alexius]

I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko

Did they what? Make him disappear? Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...

[Irish Hermit]

When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.

*

In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?

[stashko]

*

In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?

Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko

[Irish Hermit]

Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko

Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.

[orthodoxlurker]

Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.

[stashko]

Did they what? Make him disappear? Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...

God only knows and bogoljub unless he appears here and tells us he's been banned...stashko

[ozgeorge]

Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.

If so, then this goes beyond "not telling the truth" and becomes just plain old lying.

[stashko]

Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.

How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko

[Irish Hermit]

I think you
need glasses"]"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.

This shows that Catherine Grant's policy of "trying to protect our dignity" by not showing us as banned is having the opposite effect.

Our reputation is being damaged by her dishonest concealment of our true status.

Because we are still shown as active members, other members do not know we are banned and I have seen messages on CAF accusing us of

1.  lying about our status
2.  "punishing" other members by refusing to participate
3.  sulking
4.  trying to make CAF look bad.

An honest and open "Banned" under our names would do more to restore our dignity than Catherine Grant's present policy of concealment which is having the opposite effect.

Tell the truth, Catherine, and shame the devil.

[Irish Hermit]

How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko

*
Find one of your old posts and click on your name at the top left.

[paradoxy]

Papa Gregorio, reading your last post on CAF was a treat! Pity they don't want to believe it...

Orthodoxlurker, I can't believe they did that! This sure goes from 'mental reservation' and merely implying untruth to outright lying.

Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so. That would cause more of a 'public stir' than openly banning unwanted members. I'm not saying this is a decent thing to do, of course - just pointing out how easily it could be done and how silly this whole cover-up operation seems in light of that.

[Irish Hermit]

Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.

Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________

[Irish Hermit]

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.

Received this via a friend...

I was talking to a friend about you getting back on Catholic Forums. He said:

Go to the link that I am providing you below, download the ' Hide-your-ip' software. (don't click on the one that says ' buy it' just click on upper right hand where it says ' download'.  It is for free. Once you download it  install it into your pc, and when you activate it it will change your ip add so as Catholic forums cannot keep you off.

http://www.hide-my-ip.com/

*

[paradoxy]

Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________

They're thorough... 

[the slave]

ooooooh sneaky

Does anyone know if they are actually banning by IP or have managed to link folks alter egos ?

[ialmisry]

Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________

How's that for free, frank and honest discussion.

Even under the Patriot Act, you get some semblance of a trial.

[Irish Hermit]

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.

*
Just followed up on your suggestion.

"Since I am Banned Please Show me as Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998437#post2998437