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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 266703 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #495 on: November 21, 2007, 02:47:00 PM »

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Gee....now there's a surprise! Shocked Grin
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« Reply #496 on: November 21, 2007, 03:11:07 PM »

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

"I will not lie down, I will not go quietly!" Don Henley Wink
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« Reply #497 on: November 21, 2007, 03:17:42 PM »

Perhaps you should strive for consistency and refrain from asking such questions...  Wink

On the Byzantine forum, in relation to this matter, you said:

Source: Link Disabled
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« Reply #498 on: November 21, 2007, 03:25:47 PM »

I made a PDF print of paradoxy's posting at CAF and will gladly share it with anyone who wants a copy.
I'd like to read this. Can you post it or send it to me?
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« Reply #499 on: November 21, 2007, 03:33:18 PM »

This is the long-awaited public explanation for the secret bans:

Link Disabled

Quote
The article on the reasons why members are banned has been copied into the thread above by Catherine Grant. All that I can add to it is this:
CAF does not discuss with third parties the cases of individual members out of respect for their privacy. If they wish to make known their case, that is their privilege; we only ask that you keep in mind that there are two sides to every story. Because we choose not to violate privacy, all you likely will hear in such instances is what the member chooses to make public, which likely will be only pieces of the story and only those pieces that reflect well on the individual.
When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.
If you have any questions or concerns about specific mod/admin actions, we ask you to please contact a mod privately by PM or write to the administration staff at forumadmin@catholic.com. Although we cannot discuss individual cases with you, we would be happy to explain general protocol.

Is it just me, or is this meant to be even more insulting and infuriating? This reads: Fr Ambrose and other long-standing Orthodox posters have indeed committed serious offenses, but CAF has charitably allowed them to keep up appearances for the sake of their dignity!?

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?   Grin  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 03:43:11 PM by FrChris » Logged

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« Reply #500 on: November 21, 2007, 03:33:51 PM »

The new forum is not about Eastern Catholicism at all; instead, it is about Roman Catholics forcing Eastern Catholics to accept Latinized theology.

Hear ! Hear !!
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« Reply #501 on: November 21, 2007, 03:39:19 PM »

Please Note - there is still nothing about the return of all the threads that were archived . Nor was there any indication that  a 2 week gap - when a poster could have posted , was an inappropriate delay before a banning was imposed.

My concerns , that I posted publicly there, about the missing threads and info, was not answered

Quote
The administration will respond to your concerns today. Please do not post any new threads on this topic.
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« Reply #502 on: November 21, 2007, 04:10:32 PM »

The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.
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« Reply #503 on: November 21, 2007, 04:52:09 PM »

The reason a few links were disabled in posts above was because there is a general policy against linking to other web forums. The reason for this was to keep people from plugging other competing forums which used to happen here a lot. Reading over the threads above, some of these links were clearly for reference purposes and not to advertise. We are sorry if your reference was removed hastily but please do limit posting links to other forums. We also don't want to be a place where people feel free to trash other forums, although we understand the current need of the members from CAF to vent.

Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  Embarrassed.

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever...  Undecided
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 04:57:46 PM by paradoxy » Logged

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« Reply #504 on: November 21, 2007, 06:36:02 PM »

Hello,

So, Father Ambrose and others, 'fess up: what have you really done to deserve the ban?   Grin  Roll Eyes
Father Ambrose (and many others) many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us. We were all guilty of it at one time or another - and it is technically against their forum rules. But, that is exactly the type of dialogue that formed us into a type of family. No family is without is arguments and quarrels, but we all respected each other.
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« Reply #505 on: November 21, 2007, 07:29:23 PM »

Understood. Sorry, we're new and obviously didn't bother to study those forum rules.  Embarrassed.

Obviously, the only reason we're 'trashing' the other forum here, 'behind their backs', is that we're not physically permitted to discuss this there openly and honestly. I'm clarifying this because I generally feel horrible about talking badly about someone behind their backs (but they turned their backs to us, so it's not like we enjoy gossiping just for the heck of it...) Whatever...  Undecided

Well like I said, we understand your feelings. I myself and a few other posters were once banned from a similar (although much smaller) Catholic forum once, without at least in my case my having broken any rules. That made me quite sad.
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« Reply #506 on: November 21, 2007, 07:31:41 PM »

Father Ambrose ....... many times went beyond simple information exchange to the realms that emotions often take us.
*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.
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« Reply #507 on: November 21, 2007, 07:49:23 PM »

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

Father;
I wish i knew more orthodoxTheology and the Holy Fathers ,i would give them a good run for there money , the R C.at the byzatine forum......at least our eastern catholic brothers/and sisters know about the injustice......stashko
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« Reply #508 on: November 21, 2007, 07:53:57 PM »

Hello,

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.

I guess I used you particularly to describe generally. I'm sorry if I mischaracterized you. Of course, sometimes others may take posts to mean something they aren't intended to mean (i.e., curt comment as an all-out assault). You must admit that a wide assortment of smilies can help to ease such situations.  Grin

P.S. - what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory.  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #509 on: November 21, 2007, 08:43:21 PM »

Father Ambrose ... many times went beyond simple information exchange...

Do you really think, Athanasios, that "simple information exchange" is even desirable, when the salvation of souls is at stake?  Have you ever read an anathema?  Does it sound at all like a "simple information exchange"Huh

Arsenios

ps - Final Theosis is not an Orthodox term...

It is an oxymoron used by an RC poster on CAF...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 08:45:31 PM by maqhth » Logged

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« Reply #510 on: November 21, 2007, 09:43:44 PM »

. . . what do you mean "final theosis" is NOT the Orthodox equivalent of Purgatory.  Grin Grin Grin
Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God
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« Reply #511 on: November 21, 2007, 09:47:39 PM »

Theosis is a never ending process, i.e., it is an eternal stretching (epektasis) into God

Guys,
Please keep this thread on topic.
George
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« Reply #512 on: November 21, 2007, 09:57:11 PM »

In a way my comment is on topic, because theological clarifications of this kind are why CAF has barred Eastern Orthodox (and some Eastern Catholics) from posting.   Grin
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« Reply #513 on: November 21, 2007, 09:58:57 PM »

Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.
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« Reply #514 on: November 21, 2007, 10:25:08 PM »

Fr. Ambrose, in solidarity with you I am cancelling my CAF account with this public notice that expresses my sentiments:

Following what is now a discernibly concerted effort to muster up any excuse possible to purge this Forum of the most educated yet charitable and benevolent Orthodox Catholic critics of Roman Catholicism - the latest incident being the banning of Fr. Ambrose - deemed as "thorns in the side" of administrators who are keen on leaving as little trace as possible of their shamefully repressive actions, I am canceling my account as a mark of protest, no longer willing to associate with an entity showing itself to be hostile to the principles of free and open discussion to which both Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches are committed in their ecumenical endeavours for rapprochement. It is difficult to comprehend the motives behind the most recent addition to the growing list of banned Orthodox participants, however all of us know that Fr. Ambrose never showed the least sign of unruliness, always adhered to forum rules and engaged his critics with charity and honesty. It is no coincidence, I believe, that a change in direction to reflect the more pervasive authoritarian nature of the Roman Catholic lay internet apologetics movement necessitated the departure of the esteemed former moderator of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum, under whom vigorous dialogue and civil criticism was always tolerated, in order that these severe actions could be exercised. "Catholic Answers", in addition to presenting misleading, incorrect and unhistorical information on the Orthodox Church and Church History in their tracts, cannot be considered a helpful agent in this process of dialogue and rapprochement.
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« Reply #515 on: November 21, 2007, 10:46:14 PM »

I think some people at CAF are in denial.
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« Reply #516 on: November 21, 2007, 11:30:38 PM »

*
Dear Athanasios,

I would not agree that that was a characteristic of my posting style.  My emotions are usually under control. 

Of course I made curt comments about people who persisted in pretending to know more about Orthodoxy than they do, such as a renowned apologist who maintains that "final theosis" is the Orthodox equivalent of purgatory.


I was under the impression that this unnamed individual held that those in heaven were experiencing the final theosis, which is not possible since theosis nevers ends...nevermind that--It is rediculous what happened on CAF!
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« Reply #517 on: November 21, 2007, 11:33:50 PM »

I think some people at CAF are in denial.

Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust? Undecided Cry Shocked
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« Reply #518 on: November 22, 2007, 12:49:36 AM »

Kind of like those who deny the Holocaust? Undecided Cry Shocked

Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime? Wink

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:



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« Reply #519 on: November 22, 2007, 01:03:23 AM »

Come now! Surely you are not suggesting that this is exactly like the Nazis who got rid of people and then attempted to destroy any evidence of their crime? Wink

Well, surprise surprise! CAF has taken down Papa Gregorio's post as well.
Here are some snapshots for old time's sake:

Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!
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« Reply #520 on: November 22, 2007, 01:18:50 AM »

Wait, I was just reading Papa Gregorio's post a few hours ago!
Check the Eastern Catholic Forum, 'taint there no more...... nor are any of the 6 responses to it (the top of the first one is visible in the second photo).
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« Reply #521 on: November 22, 2007, 01:29:54 AM »

EDIT: to be fair, they now do give a reason - 'publicly discussing moderator actions'

Hey, I didn't know infallibility extended to moderators!
I wonder how I can use my own "Divine Right of Moderators" to remove threads, lock people out of the forum, and then ban anyone who dares question me? Cheesy
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« Reply #522 on: November 22, 2007, 02:22:40 AM »

I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko
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« Reply #523 on: November 22, 2007, 02:36:25 AM »

I haven't read any posts from brother bogoljub over there for about a day or two ..i wonder did they .........stashko

Did they what? Make him disappear? Wink Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...
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« Reply #524 on: November 22, 2007, 05:39:59 AM »

Quote
When banning individuals, CAF has a choice: We can give a banned member a tag that makes public that he has been banned; or we can ban him privately so that a public stir is not created and so that he can retain the dignity of appearing to have stopped participating of his own volition. With members of longstanding, CAF staff often choose the latter option. The downside to this is that the member can then make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him, but we feel that the positives often outweigh the negative.
*

In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?
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« Reply #525 on: November 22, 2007, 05:47:48 AM »

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In order that I resist the temptation to "make it appear that CAF is engaged in covert behavior against him"  would someone please inform the CAF staf that I wish to have "Banned" under my name.

CAF is simply playing dishonest games with me and the others (about 11 members) who have been secretly banned.    I have been alarmed to see posts which imply that maybe we are not banned at all and are just trying to make CAF look bad.  To protect herself and to allow the blame to fall on those who are banned Catherine Grant is dishonestly concealing our true status.

So, if anyone is in touch with CAF staff please tell them that that I encourage them to have the courage of publicly sharing their decision to ban us forever and that we desire to see the word Banned shown under our names.

Let CAF stop being deceptive, stop issuing vacuous statements of self-justification  and let them tell the truth.  Is that too much to ask?


Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko
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« Reply #526 on: November 22, 2007, 05:55:34 AM »

Father Ambrose ; Were are our names,,i don't see them anywhere  ,,, where does one look for them .... stashko
Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 05:56:05 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
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« Reply #527 on: November 22, 2007, 06:03:27 AM »



Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.
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« Reply #528 on: November 22, 2007, 06:05:50 AM »

Did they what? Make him disappear? Wink Soon his posts will be sleepin' with the fishes...


God only knows and bogoljub unless he appears here and tells us he's been banned...stashko
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« Reply #529 on: November 22, 2007, 06:09:12 AM »



Not a big deal. Yet, for the sake of facts, I never requested my account to be suspended.

That's how ecumenical talks with some RC end.

If so, then this goes beyond "not telling the truth" and becomes just plain old lying.
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« Reply #530 on: November 22, 2007, 06:09:55 AM »

Our names and status are shown at the top left of our messages, and in our Profiles.

How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko
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« Reply #531 on: November 22, 2007, 06:10:55 AM »

I think you
need glasses"]"I just checked the Member List and I show he is not banned as you say he was.
This shows that Catherine Grant's policy of "trying to protect our dignity" by not showing us as banned is having the opposite effect.

Our reputation is being damaged by her dishonest concealment of our true status.

Because we are still shown as active members, other members do not know we are banned and I have seen messages on CAF accusing us of

1.  lying about our status
2.  "punishing" other members by refusing to participate
3.  sulking
4.  trying to make CAF look bad.

An honest and open "Banned" under our names would do more to restore our dignity than Catherine Grant's present policy of concealment which is having the opposite effect.

Tell the truth, Catherine, and shame the devil.
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« Reply #532 on: November 22, 2007, 06:26:55 AM »

How does one access his profile if you can't log in stashko
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Find one of your old posts and click on your name at the top left.
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« Reply #533 on: November 22, 2007, 09:31:12 AM »

Papa Gregorio, reading your last post on CAF was a treat! Pity they don't want to believe it...

Orthodoxlurker, I can't believe they did that! This sure goes from 'mental reservation' and merely implying untruth to outright lying.

Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so. That would cause more of a 'public stir' than openly banning unwanted members. I'm not saying this is a decent thing to do, of course - just pointing out how easily it could be done and how silly this whole cover-up operation seems in light of that.
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« Reply #534 on: November 22, 2007, 09:41:45 AM »

Father Ambrose, is 'athair ambrois' secretly banned too? Just a thought. Perhaps you could tell them 'in person' you'd like to be openly banned.
Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________
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« Reply #535 on: November 22, 2007, 09:46:19 AM »

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.
Received this via a friend...

I was talking to a friend about you getting back on Catholic Forums. He said:

Go to the link that I am providing you below, download the ' Hide-your-ip' software. (don't click on the one that says ' buy it' just click on upper right hand where it says ' download'.  It is for free. Once you download it  install it into your pc, and when you activate it it will change your ip add so as Catholic forums cannot keep you off.

http://www.hide-my-ip.com/

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« Reply #536 on: November 22, 2007, 09:51:03 AM »

Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

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Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

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They're thorough...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #537 on: November 22, 2007, 09:51:28 AM »

ooooooh sneaky

Does anyone know if they are actually banning by IP or have managed to link folks alter egos ?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 09:51:57 AM by the slave » Logged

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« Reply #538 on: November 22, 2007, 09:56:24 AM »

Just attempted to sign in as athair ambrois and this is what happened......

____________________________
Your account has been locked for the following reason:
No reason was specified.

This change will be lifted: Never
____________________________


How's that for free, frank and honest discussion. Roll Eyes

Even under the Patriot Act, you get some semblance of a trial.
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« Reply #539 on: November 22, 2007, 09:59:22 AM »

You do all realize, of course - and they must realize it as well - that we could all easily re-register under new names every time we get banned and post the truth about what happened every hour or so.
*
Just followed up on your suggestion.

"Since I am Banned Please Show me as Banned"
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=2998437#post2998437

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