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« Reply #360 on: November 16, 2007, 11:49:38 AM » |
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Rob, OzGeorge, etc. please forgive the reluctance to venture out into other parts of the forum. Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity. It had a quality which will be missed and formed a habit which is not easily broken. John's right. Bear with us a day or so until the shock wears off and we get past the herd mentality and we'll be good to go, venturing off on our own into the highways and byways here. Many years, Neil |
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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #361 on: November 16, 2007, 06:30:24 PM » |
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Over on CAF we were basically only reading and responding to threads in that one subforum called Eastern Christianity. Like some exotic insects in a glass exhibit, until they decided you were pests and called in the exterminators......How poetic is that? |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Magicsilence
CAF driftwood
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Maronite Catholic
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« Reply #362 on: November 16, 2007, 06:53:21 PM » |
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Like some exotic insects in a glass exhibit, until they decided you were pests and called in the exterminators......How poetic is that?
Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy? |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 06:53:58 PM by Magicsilence »
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #363 on: November 16, 2007, 06:59:31 PM » |
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Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?
HAHAHAHA. Oh, if you weren't joking... don't worry. Our justice is swift, very painful - and very public. Not at all like those folks over at the other place. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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GiC
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« Reply #364 on: November 16, 2007, 07:04:09 PM » |
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Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?
Yep. You'd be out of here faster than Raid kills ants.  In all seriousness, you probably won't get banned. Though if you catch ozgeorge in a bad mood be prepared for a good fight, but it can be fun, trust me I've enjoyed a good virtual brawl on several occasions with him. However, I'm sure you have nothing to worry about, he has to get to know you before he'll have a bone to pick with you and I'm one of the few around here who can get under his skin like that.  |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 07:04:53 PM by greekischristian »
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #365 on: November 16, 2007, 07:08:27 PM » |
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Normally, I'd respond to this, but would it get me banned if I disagreed with your analogy?
Oh, and a good thing to bring up: only the Admins ban. So stay on the good side of the omnipotent and omniscient FrChris, and you're okay (lol - I couldn't type that and keep a straight face). |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #366 on: November 16, 2007, 07:19:43 PM » |
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Though if you catch ozgeorge in a bad mood be prepared for a good fight, You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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FrChris
The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
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Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
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« Reply #367 on: November 16, 2007, 07:41:40 PM » |
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So stay on the good side of the omnipotent and omniscient FrChris, and you're okay (lol - I couldn't type that and keep a straight face).
And once again it is revealed why I am... The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net!!  |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 07:41:57 PM by FrChris »
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"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus
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Magicsilence
CAF driftwood
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« Reply #368 on: November 16, 2007, 07:43:04 PM » |
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You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?
You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the moderators on this board are a tad less inclined to stick firmly by the rules, but at the same time, have the great ability to act on emotions. As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums, so I am only exploring the limits of our 'freedom'. The question was serious (sort of). Peace and God Bless! |
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ytterbiumanalyst
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« Reply #369 on: November 16, 2007, 07:49:05 PM » |
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Magicsilence,
Don't worry about offending anyone here. We have several longtime posters who are Catholic, and they all have very good things to say. I think you'll find that on this forum, we tend to keep an open mind (or at least an open ear) toward people of other faiths, especially our fellow Christians. Be prepared for some good debates, but I've never seen the moderators pick a fight with anyone or moderate just because they don't agree with someone. About all they moderate is foul language; ad hominem attacks; and sweeping, hateful generalizations (e.g. people of this religion are all going to hell, etc.). Stay away from these, and you should enjoy yourself here.
Welcome!
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 07:50:06 PM by ytterbiumanalyst »
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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
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GiC
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« Reply #370 on: November 16, 2007, 07:58:09 PM » |
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You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me?
No, read my post again, I'm talking about you. Don't you know it's rude to eavesdrop on other's conversations? Especially when they're talking about you behind your back. |
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #371 on: November 16, 2007, 07:58:24 PM » |
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You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the moderators on this board are a tad less inclined to stick firmly by the rules, but at the same time, have the great ability to act on emotions. Actually, we do stick to the rules and try to apply them even-handedly. As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums, We are all guests on this forum- even me. Being a Catholic doesn't make you any less of a guest than I am. Yes, it is an Orthodox Forum, but we moderators have also muted posters and locked threads for repeatedly insulting other Churches such as the Catholic and Anglican Churches. For example, I notice you are Maronite, well we even have a policy about how your Church can be referred to on this forum (see http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13388.msg184953.html#msg184953). Healthy debate is good, but mindless insults with nothing to back them up but derision are not. |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #372 on: November 16, 2007, 07:59:35 PM » |
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No, read my post again, I'm talking about you. Don't you know it's rude to eavesdrop on other's conversations? Especially when they're talking about you behind your back. Oh, that's all right then....I'll let you live. |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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FrChris
The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
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Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
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« Reply #373 on: November 16, 2007, 08:08:28 PM » |
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Since there seems to be a great concern about what can be said and what can't, maybe I should just let everyone know that Mr Y pretty much has it down in his post. In summary:
Everyone has the right to ask sincere questions. This can be perceived by the attitude of the original post, as well as in the ensuing debate, if any is generated.
People also have the right to be an idiot on this site. Some posters exercise this right more so than others. If you post something that is a product of your idiocy, I am confident that this will be pointed out by the other posters on this site, and you will be corrected. It is up to you regarding whether you learn from this or not.
No one has the right in the Public Forums to use foul language, ad hominems, insult another, post pornography, solicit people looking for a future spouse, link to another message forum, or advertise products.
The Private Forums are available for those who wish to have a no-holds-barred conversation on politics and the differences in Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox theologies. You must PM me if you want to post in the Private Forum.
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"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus
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Νεκτάριος
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« Reply #374 on: November 16, 2007, 08:37:36 PM » |
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No one has the right in the Public Forums to use foul language, ad hominems, insult another, post pornography, solicit people looking for a future spouse, link to another message forum, or advertise products. Now that we have the English practice forum going, my next idea was a find a Russian bride forum. I take it this probably won't fly... |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #375 on: November 16, 2007, 09:27:19 PM » |
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As a Catholic, I am in every way a guest on these forums, so I am only exploring the limits of our 'freedom'. The question was serious (sort of).
 I vouch for Magic. He's a Brit and one of the good 'uns. |
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GiC
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« Reply #376 on: November 16, 2007, 09:34:11 PM » |
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Now that we have the English practice forum going, my next idea was a find a Russian bride forum. I take it this probably won't fly...
The forum would hold two OC.net records: least posts and most views. |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 09:34:48 PM by greekischristian »
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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RPConover
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« Reply #377 on: November 16, 2007, 10:24:36 PM » |
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The forum would hold two OC.net records: least posts and most views. Father, I love the Icon of St. Patrick you're using on here... do you have any idea if it's possible to get a reproduction of it? My middle name is Patrick, whether that was in honor of the Saint I've never asked, but I do have a fondness for him. |
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Paradosis
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« Reply #378 on: November 16, 2007, 10:51:45 PM » |
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Father, bless It's nice to see you here Father Ambrose (Irish Hermit). This is ForeverAdam. |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #379 on: November 16, 2007, 11:04:46 PM » |
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Father, I love the Icon of St. Patrick you're using on here... do you have any idea if it's possible to get a reproduction of it? It was painted a few years back (1994?) for one of the chapels at a Saint Petersburg university where there is a Celtic Club of young Orthodox students. The clergy support them and there are special services (Akathist and Presanctified) On Saint Patrick's day. I have written to them twice asking the name of the iconographer but never any reply. The best I can suggest is making a good quality print from the icon on the website or asking an American iconographer to paint a reproduction for you. Website http://www.trilistnik.ru/celtic.php |
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2007, 11:09:32 PM by Irish Hermit »
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #380 on: November 16, 2007, 11:15:44 PM » |
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It's nice to see you here Father Ambrose (Irish Hermit). This is ForeverAdam. I see you are still on CAF and doing sterling work to present holy Orthodoxy accurately. Thumbs up! |
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ialmisry
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« Reply #382 on: November 17, 2007, 01:04:37 AM » |
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I just broke my rule and posted on the ECath forum. The thread was on the "Statement of joint catholic-orthodox commission." I asked, out of consistency, why wasn't it on the non-Catholic forum?  I also came across something else interesting: I hate to do this, but I do have to request that PMs and posts from other forums not be placed here at OC.net without permission of the original authors.
+Fr Chris
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 02:06:31 AM by FrChris »
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #383 on: November 17, 2007, 01:21:15 AM » |
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MODERTION:
ialmisry,
It's not a good idea to post stuff from other forums on OCnet. Firstly, you do not have the posters' permission to transfer their posts to here. Secondly, OCnet is not a place to recruit posters to fight battles elsewhere. Thirdly, linking to other forums is not permitted on OCnet, and although you haven't given a direct link, you have told us exactly where it is, how to find it, and who the posters involved are.
George
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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maqhth
Jr. Member
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"Be not troubling of you the heart..."
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« Reply #384 on: November 17, 2007, 01:58:50 AM » |
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I just broke my rule and posted on the ECath forum.
The thread was on the "Statement of joint catholic-orthodox commission."
I asked, out of consistency, why wasn't it on the non-Catholic forum?
I also came across something else interesting:
Looks like dogs returning to the feast of their own regurgitations... Again... Keep us posted on what happens... Arsenios Edited to add: WHOAH! Looks like we are not to talk about the old board's post mortem developments on this forum... Do I have that right, George? Or is it simply that Isa was too specific and reproduced the egregious icon? A. For purposes of clarification, Isa's post was modified due to pasting text from another discussion forum within OC.net without an indication of securing the permission of the original author.
Perhaps this is something that was done at 'another forum'; it's not something we do here.
Any mistake done was do to a lack of familiarity with OC.net, and not due to any desire to place us in legal entanglements, so there will be no disciplinary measures taken.
No harm, no foul! Now, let's get back to posting and learning!
+Fr Chris
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 02:12:39 AM by FrChris »
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Reader Arsenios
Watch what you do...
You may be the only Bible...
That some will ever read...
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #385 on: November 17, 2007, 02:18:34 AM » |
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Do I have that right, George? Absolutely. But just don't go cutting and pasting huge chunks of it here! If there's an issue brought up there which you wish to discuss here, by all means, start a thread about it in the appropriate forum (for example, here you will find a thread about Josephat Kuntsevich which was started as a result of a debate on another Catholic forum.) What we don't want is irrelevant copied and pasted huge chunks of other fora without permission of the original author, naming posters on other fora in ways which target them, or OCnet providing advertising for other fora (not that we have much choice with this thread at the moment!) |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 03:06:43 AM by ozgeorge »
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #386 on: November 17, 2007, 04:13:47 AM » |
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Just one more thing guys,
I think this thread is an important record of what happened to the EC forum on CAF, and many thanks to stashko for starting it! It also served as a rallying point, almost like a beacon!
Please try to keep this thread on topic, that is, for issues dealing directly with the closure and removal of the Eastern Christian forum and it's posts from CAF and related banning of CAF members etc.
If threads go off into tangents, we split them in to smaller threads with different topics, so try not to post off topic stuff here, or it may be moved somewhere else.
Please don't be put off from posting in this thread by any means! I know a lot of you have had a very bad experience with "moderation" at CAF. Rest assured that we don't operate like that!
We want to keep this thread. That's why I'm encouraging you to keep it on topic. In other words,
1) Don't post technical questions in this thread, they go in the "technical issues" forum.
2) Don't post stuff not related to the CAF EC Forum removal and bannings here, find an appropriate thread or start one.
3) Don't start debates unrelated to the CAF EC Forum removal in this thread, start them in an appropriate thread.
4) Do use this thread to discuss the recent CAF EC Forum removal and bannings.
5) Do use this thread as the initial "reunion" rallying point.
Thanks,
George
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 04:16:18 AM by ozgeorge »
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montalban
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« Reply #387 on: November 17, 2007, 08:34:44 AM » |
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I really liked it over there.
Michael
I was invited to that forum by a Catholic. Initially I had written to a Catholic site about points they raised. I was invited onto their forum to discuss things but the Catholic mod (who'd invited me) kept closing down my threads and said that I should really be going to Catholic Answers. Catholics don't take well-put argument very well. They're in such a shock that there's a logical/viable alternative to their church - one that's always taught Jesus' message. Now I'm at foru.ms (which used to be called "Christian forums" but is less and less Chrisitan - as a lot of secularists / relativist Christians are in positions of power. Edit: Link to another forum disabled. |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 09:57:11 AM by ozgeorge »
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Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
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Heracleides
Elder
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Jurisdiction: Patriarch of Jerusalem
Posts: 390
Kona-Kai
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« Reply #388 on: November 17, 2007, 10:45:30 AM » |
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For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I thought I'd give an example of what to type into the Google search box... for instance:
site:forums.catholic.com fr ambrose
Doing this brings up 5,550 hits (one can of course narrow the search by typing in additional terms). Once you find whatever it is you're wanting to save, click on "cached" and once the cached page comes up, save it (I prefer saving such pages as single file *.mht pages). Hope this helps those seeking to recover some of the more recent gems from CAF before they vanish completely.
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 10:53:03 AM by Heracleides »
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"And having found Heracleides there again, we instructed him to proclaim the Gospel of God..." ~Acts of Barnabas
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #389 on: November 17, 2007, 11:12:05 AM » |
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For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I thought I'd give an example of what to type into the Google search box... for instance:
site:forums.catholic.com fr ambrose
Doing this brings up 5,550 hits (one can of course narrow the search by typing in additional terms). Once you find whatever it is you're wanting to save, click on "cached" and once the cached page comes up, save it (I prefer saving such pages as single file *.mht pages). Hope this helps those seeking to recover some of the more recent gems from CAF before they vanish completely.
This is excellent advice Heracleides! But do you see what is going to happen? This thread will continue to grow, and some people may not see it...ever! Here is what I suggest you do: 1) Go to the "Technical Help forum"2) Start a new topic entitled "How to Retreive and Save Removed Web Pages" 3) Enter (copy and paste) your advice 4) Come back to this thread and write a new post stating: "For those wanting to recover & save their postings on CAF using Google, I have outlined how to do so here [link to your post in Technical Help] George (Global Moderator) |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:13:43 AM by ozgeorge »
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Alexius
Sr. Member
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Posts: 180
Baptism of Poland
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« Reply #391 on: November 17, 2007, 09:07:09 PM » |
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Oh no! Fr. Ambrose is here! I better get posting if I want to have more posts than him! |
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"You cannot reason with those who do not..." Prayers and Petitions, Alexius  |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #392 on: November 17, 2007, 09:13:59 PM » |
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Oh no! Fr. Ambrose is here! I better get posting if I want to have more posts than him! I see you are heading me off at the moment with 0.146 posts per day. I have only 0.121 |
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Alexius
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« Reply #393 on: November 17, 2007, 09:20:43 PM » |
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I see you are heading me off at the moment with 0.146 posts per day. I have only 0.121 Yep! I'm off like a...turtle. But you know the story! It's the rabbit who takes the pit stop and loses!  It's mainly because I signed up for this forum at the beginning of this year and forgot I did...  |
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"You cannot reason with those who do not..." Prayers and Petitions, Alexius |
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #394 on: November 17, 2007, 09:30:46 PM » |
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It's mainly because I signed up for this forum at the beginning of this year and forgot I did... It might be a good idea then if you (and other "CAF Refugees") visit this post by Fr. Chris: Suggestions from the New Members, and especially former CAF folks! Your responses there will help us to understand how to help serve you and look to the future of OCnet. |
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Alexius
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« Reply #395 on: November 17, 2007, 09:47:33 PM » |
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"You cannot reason with those who do not..." Prayers and Petitions, Alexius |
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stashko
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« Reply #396 on: November 18, 2007, 11:04:49 PM » |
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Brother Bogoljub were are you ....are you here under another name i always enjoyed your posts .....Brother Stashko
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 ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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danman916
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« Reply #397 on: November 19, 2007, 05:48:19 PM » |
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I really liked it over there.
But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.
Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently
I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.
I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.
Michael
Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here. Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting. I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here. |
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Fr. George
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« Reply #398 on: November 19, 2007, 06:21:31 PM » |
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Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.
Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting. Not that anyone's comments need defending, but it is natural for someone who has left a familiar place because s/he now feels unwelcome to have overly harsh critiques of their former "home." I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here. Not everyone bashes Catholics here - but y'all are in the minority, for sure. Again, it is natural for some of the former CAF folks to be more critical than they would normally be, considering the circumstances of their departure. Maybe they're overstating, maybe they're not. If I were you, I probably wouldn't take it personally. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Jakub
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« Reply #399 on: November 19, 2007, 06:23:54 PM » |
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Being a long time member here and a Catholic I don't see much bashing, especially by Michael, though I've also noticed elsewhere there is a discussion thread to drop the Traditional Catholic SubForum...
james
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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Fr. George
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« Reply #400 on: November 19, 2007, 06:25:54 PM » |
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though I've also noticed elsewhere there is a discussion thread to drop the Traditional Catholic SubForum...  |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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Jakub
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« Reply #401 on: November 19, 2007, 06:45:58 PM » |
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Do I need to type out the letters of that forum being discussed ?
ps- The LA Angels of Anaheim traded their shortstop to the White Sox for pitcher John Garland...
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 06:49:07 PM by Jakub »
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An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.
Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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Posts: 19,980
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #402 on: November 19, 2007, 06:48:55 PM » |
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Do I need to type out the third and first letters of that forum being discussed ?
Oh, got it. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #403 on: November 19, 2007, 08:01:49 PM » |
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Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.
Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.
I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here.
Hang on, be fair! You seem to be implying that Michael is "bashing" all Catholics on CAF. Yet Michale makes it clear in his post that he is referring to the "amateur RC apologists" who were theologically arguing with the Orthodox posters in the subforum, and not the entire Catholic "population" on CAF. George |
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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
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Hesychios
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« Reply #404 on: November 19, 2007, 08:42:49 PM » |
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Michael, I am saddened at your polemical argument over here.
Many of us Roman Catholics neither fashioned ourselves as apologists, nor are we inept, as you seem to be asserting.
I am very saddened to read such bashing of Catholics over here.
Dear Danman, I am sorry that I offended you. Looking once again over the post, it does sound a bit polemical (and a bit out of character for me), although that was not my intention...I suppose my emotions were showing. I was not directing those comment at all Roman Catholics, and not at you, I have always regarded you to be a gentleman. Nevertheless my points stand. No, not all RC regarded themselves as Apologists, but it was an apologetics website, and there was no shortage of them, whether they would call themselves by that title or not. There were indeed many RC apologists (or polemicists), coming in waves, ready to kick butt and taking names. But they were often unprepared for Orthodoxy...they were accustomed to debating Protestants. That is (I think) why so many of them were so keen on identifying Holy Orthodoxy with some kind of dissenting bunch of heretics who are phobic over authority. Those were straw arguments, setting up for an easy kill, but unsustainable. These people did not know what they were dealing with, and had much to learn. They were also unprepared by their own resources. I think Roman Catholic apologetics benefitted considerably by the presence of the Orthodox there. [BTW, Do you remember that discussion you and I had over the "Letter of Clement to James"? The CAF is still quoting it in their literature http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp. You told me that you contacted CAF, you said... Personally, I just want to know the truth about it. Not that the entire primacy of the Bishop of Rome hangs on this single reference, but it would be nice to know the truth either way. and I suppose you did contact them, but CAF never made the correction.] If I regret anything about that post early in this thread, it is that I neglected to mention all the fine people I had the pleasure of dealing with on and off for years. Roman Catholic and Orthodox alike. Michael |
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"Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living"
Jaroslav Pelikan
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