Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion

[stashko]

Catholic answers forum,, removed the eastern christian sub -forum renamed it eastern catholic ,,,accused the orthodox of proselytizing the eastern catholics /roman catholic ,,,orthodox may be able to defend the faith in the non catholic sub-forum still not sure about that thought...i was banned for some reason.. in the new eastern catholic sub -forum if orthodox participate the cant call them selfs catholic or orthodox catholic acording to the moderator Therese  martin  stashko

[Salpy]

Interesting how what people call themselves and others can be such a touchy issue.  Were the Othodox really proselytizing?

[Anastasios]

A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.

[stashko]

Interesting how what people call themselves and others can be such a touchy issue.  Were the Othodox really proselytizing?

 




Of course not ...but they did defend orthodoxy with gusto...the roman catholics couldnt take the heat....it was to much for them....       .stashko

[stashko]

A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.

 i never heard of this  forum ...i wounder if  our  orthodox Father Ambrose and the other orthodox posters on catholic answers heard of it ,,,since im banned i cant tell them darn it ...stashko

[ytterbiumanalyst]

I had a weird dream the other night that EWTN started including Anglican and Orthodox programming. They held a giant festival with speakers from the three religions, which my wife and I and my parents attended. What my parents heard there from an Orthodox priest caused them to convert. Don't know the relevance of this, but it was really interesting to me.

[Fr. George]

A much better place to debate Roman Catholics is Steve Ray's forums.catholic-convert.com where they have areas for this type of discussion.

Friends,

From now on, banners in signatures to other forums are not allowed although you may link to another forum or website in your signature, without comment.

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

Proselytizing people to your jurisdiction is no longer allowed.  I don't care if it is the GOA or the ROAC, we don't exist to give spiritual advice, but rather to discuss spiritual matters. There is a healthy distinction.  If you feel the need to plug your group then do it by private message.

You may not private message others to solicit them to join your forum, however.  We have the ability to read other people's private messages (this is disclosed in the member agreement you sign when joining the forum) and we don't do that usually, but we can, and we will, if we think you are trying to lure people away from our site.

Thank you for your understanding in this matter.  From a human standpoint I would be lying if I said that some people in particular did not precipitate this action BUT at the same time there have been others over the past 1.5 years who have done this as well, so it is not just based on a knee-jerk reaction.

Stay tuned for an even more indepth statement on proselytism to be issued soon by all of us Admins.

anastasios
ADMIN

Just kidding!

[brittrossiter]

I was formerly a regular participant on the Catholic Answers "Eastern Christianity" forum.  I was never proselytized there, but what I did learn from the Orthodox posters ultimately caused me to begin my own inquiry and let me to the Holy Orthodox church

This is a very unfortunate development.

[Fr. George]

I was formerly a regular participant on the Catholic Answers "Eastern Christianity" forum.  I was never proselytized there, but what I did learn from the Orthodox posters ultimately caused me to begin my own inquiry and let me to the Holy Orthodox church 

I'm glad that you found the experience speaking with the Orthodox helpful and edifying.

This is a very unfortunate development. 

Indeed.

[Hesychios]

I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.

Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently

I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.

I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.

Michael

[orthodoxlurker]

I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone,...

Me too.

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2939396&postcount=47

Pitty, a good forum needs a rhytm and opposed parties. They alse have available online library and I did learn there.

Where is Fr Ambrose?

[Jakub]

I thought they had a good thing going...I have more problems with the Catholics there then the Orthodox...

Though in reality RC boards tend to give me a headache...

[Hesychios]

I thought they had a good thing going...I have more problems with the Catholics there then the Orthodox...

Though in reality RC boards tend to give me a headache...

Hi James!

Me too. I can't stand the headaches...

[Hesychios]

Me too.

http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=2939396&postcount=47

Pity, a good forum needs a rhytm and opposed parties. They also have available online library and I did learn there.

Where is Fr Ambrose?

Father Ambrose is also registered here, at OC net, and he has not been banned. (Although I have noticed that the latest batch of five or more banned in the last two days, do not have indicators under their names showing them as having been booted, while outside of that group the indicators for "Account under review" and "Banned" are still working.)

But right now it is early morning in Middle Earth, so father and the Hobbits would be rising just about now, saying prayers and fixing first breakfast!

Michael

[Anastasios]

Just kidding!

I assume you refer to:

From now on, you may not advertise your other web forum on our forum.  Links to threads on other forums are allowed, however, if they are pertinent to discussions here.

however, Steve Ray's forum is not my forum and it is not competition with us insofar as it is the exact opposite of our forum (namely Orthodox would be on the defensive there).

[Jakub]

Brother Michael, they had pity on me and gave a old wandering geezer a place of refuge, a Helm's Deep...

james

[orthodoxlurker]

I must say I'll miss the crew from there. Actually, I already do.

I'd love if Orthodox that participated there stick at another forum. Perhaps this one, since monachos.net is quite slow and of different kind. Yet, we'll miss tempo - there was enough RC posters there to keep frequency of posts.

We Orthodox were quite good. I think RCC couldn't have stood us anymore.

After all, it's them that initiated dialogue with us and insisted on it. But we saw where it finished in case of CAF.

[Hesychios]

As it happens, I just got suspended there!

I quoted a Greek Catholic Cardinal commenting on his own church, the UGCC.

The very next morning I read this comment from a Catholic...

Re: Grateful for the Eastern Catholicism Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ignatius 
From everything I've seen, I don't think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

I had wanted to gently enlighten this individual to the new realities of all the bannings (and in effect, muzzling) of my confreres (they really ARE willing to dialogue, you know...so that is another straw man right there) so I tried to sign in and got this:

Your account has been locked for the following reason:
transgression of forum rules
This change will be lifted: Nov 15, '07, 2:00 am

What rule did I violate?
 
In my last previous post I quoted Lubomyr Husar of the Greek Catholic church, on the subject of an Ukrainian Greek Catholic church!! I was sure that I was within the new guidelines for discourse in that forum.

As it happens I believe there are about nine Orthodox secretly banned or otherwise locked out of the forum, and it appears they are changing moderators.

I understand banning and suspensions, sometimes it has to be done. But this is something different, a whitewash of sorts.

Michael

[Jakub]

I'm sure that many there are insecure and really don't know much about the East or their own Church.

I am sad to say a majority of posted threads there reveal alot of poor catechesis within the Catholic Church...

james

[obadiah]

I was banned, I got tired of all the Orthodox bashing by the Romans. It's too bad that they couldn't take the heat. Instead of answering us they just ban all Orthodox. I'm glad to be gone.

[ozgeorge]

Originally Posted by Ignatius 
From everything I've seen, I don't think the Eastern Orthodox are sincerely interested in restoring communion with the Catholic Church.

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

What a great moderatorial tactic! Mute and ban posters and then use their silence as evidence that they don't wish to participate!

[Αριστοκλής]

Just to satisfy my curiosity I made this post this morning there (my only 14th post there in 3 years):

So, as I understand this now, we in the "Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East" (a canonical name of our communion), which has never ceased referring to itself as the "Catholic Church" must now refrain from using the term "Orthodox Catholic" (itself an accommodation to those in the communion of the Church of Rome which also appropriates the name "Catholic Church"). Even "Eastern Orthodox" is a western derived term and technically foreign to us. I guess we could consider ourselves "Catholic Not in Communion with Rome"? Probably not.
To me, our participation here under this new requirement (and home in NCR) is tantamount to our saying that the Communion of Rome is correct and we are wrong. That I cannot do.

Thread immediately closed.

As I suggested to DennyB about a Protestant site:

Shake the dust from one's sandals and move on...

[_Seraphim_]

Shake the dust from one's sandals and move on...

Indeed

[stashko]

I was banned, I got tired of all the Orthodox bashing by the Romans. It's too bad that they couldn't take the heat. Instead of answering us they just ban all Orthodox. I'm glad to be gone.

 Brother Obadiah ....Glad hear from you ,hope your back to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Faith again...We all of us missed you ...again welcome back ...Brother Stashko

[Jimmy]

All I can say about that forum change is, what a debacle.  The fact that they were banning people but not marking it is completely rediculous.  How can you have Eastern Catholic discussion without Eastern Orthodox discussion simultaneously?

I am glad to see many of the posters here that were over on the other forum.  I hope to see Fr Ambrose.

 

[Αριστοκλής]

He might be here already (under another name, ya' never know). 


My post above there got me permanently banned. Unbelievable, but no big loss. Oh, entire thread disappeared as well.


Welcome, Jimmy. 


P.S.: Pittsburgher?

[brittrossiter]

Regards to all known posters here - obadiah, stashko, Hesychios, jimmy. Good to see you guys.

And regards to you, orthodoxlurker.  Your posts at the CAF were particularly helpful to me in my journey to Holy Orthodoxy.  (Same goes for you, Hesychios - thanks much!)  Lurker indeed.   

And I agree with you as well.  The RC are indeed misguided and being deceived, but it's a very large leap to go from that premise to the conclusion that the pope and other RC are willing participants in the agenda of the antichrist.   

[Mickey]

Greetings to all my brethren.

Slava Isusu Christu!

I must say that the Orthodox posters on CA were instrumental in assisting my discernment process for my conversion from Rome to OCA. Myself and my family were received in September 2007.  Perhaps the moderators observed my conversion and others like myself, and decided that Roman/Eastern Catholics were being proselytized.  I do not know. but I can assure everyone that my journey was well under way aside from CA.  I have not been suspended or banned "yet"...but I am unsure if I will ever post there again. The tactics they used were extremely unChristian.  

Peace and blessings,
Mickey

[Papist]

I really liked it over there.

But now I am gone, too bad so sad....the Orthodox participants were very good for the most part, and the amateur Rc apologists were unequipped to handle strong defenses from the perspective of Holy Orthodoxy. They basically train themselves to answer protestant objections, so they are not ready to handle real Catholics who disagree with them over the Papacy and certain other doctrinal points. Often they would create straw men by portraying Orthodox as another form of protestant.

Because the Orthodox were usually too savvy, the Rc apologists had a very difficult time dismissing the Orthodox through character assasination or other means, so they had to rely on facts. Rc sources of information are inadequate, actually, and they were often caught off guard by Orthodox interpretations of events and translations of Patristic quotes (to name just two examples). Reliance on sources like the old Catholic Encyclopedia puts most Rc apologists at a significant disadvantage, we would tell them this all the time but as each new crop of gung ho apologists would come in they would have referred back to the same outdated erroneous materials. Even Catholic Answers own materials were often deficient, with errors that should embarass them, but they did not do regular updates or corrections, apparently

I believe the archives (or some of them) are still available for viewing temporarily. Should make interesting reading for anyone so inclined.

I would suggest anyone of a mind to, going over there just to read the archives and copy posts of interest for your files, while they are still available.

Michael

I usually post over there as East and West. I don't think what you name as the problem is the real problem. What was going on was that posters such as Fr. Ambrose did more than just defend Eastern Orthodoxy. They often descended to blatant bashing of the Catholic faith and did so without consequence. Catholics, on the other hand, who defended the Catholic faith well were often disciplined by the moderator. To make matters worse, it had gotten to the point where Catholics were not allowed to articulate the CATHOLIC position that the EO Church is not Catholic in the full sense of the word. It was just strange that the Catholic position was censored and the EO position allowed to be freely expressed on a CAtholic website. Furthermore, there were threads that celebrated people's conversion away from the Catholic Church and to the EO churches. From a Catholic perspective, these people were committing mortal sin and it was being celebrated. Entirely inappropriate for a Catholic web site.

[Mickey]

I usually post over there as East and West. I don't think what you name as the problem is the real problem. What was going on was that posters such as Fr. Ambrose did more than just defend Eastern Orthodoxy. They often descended to blatant bashing of the Catholic faith and did so without consequence. Catholics, on the other hand, who defended the Catholic faith well were often disciplined by the moderator. To make matters worse, it had gotten to the point where Catholics were not allowed to articulate the CATHOLIC position that the EO Church is not Catholic in the full sense of the word. It was just strange that the Catholic position was censored and the EO position allowed to be freely expressed on a CAtholic website. Furthermore, there were threads that celebrated people's conversion away from the Catholic Church and to the EO churches. From a Catholic perspective, these people were committing mortal sin and it was being celebrated. Entirely inappropriate for a Catholic web site.

Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

[stashko]

As it happens, I just got suspended there!

I quoted a Greek Catholic Cardinal commenting on his own church, the UGCC.

The very next morning I read this comment from a Catholic...

Re: Grateful for the Eastern Catholicism Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems that if they were sincerely interested they would still be here willing to dialogue.

I had wanted to gently enlighten this individual to the new realities of all the bannings (and in effect, muzzling) of my confreres (they really ARE willing to dialogue, you know...so that is another straw man right there) so I tried to sign in and got this:

Your account has been locked for the following reason:
transgression of forum rules
This change will be lifted: Nov 15, '07, 2:00 am

What rule did I violate?
 
In my last previous post I quoted Lubomyr Husar of the Greek Catholic church, on the subject of an Ukrainian Greek Catholic church!! I was sure that I was within the new guidelines for discourse in that forum.

As it happens I believe there are about nine Orthodox secretly banned or otherwise locked out of the forum, and it appears they are changing moderators.

I understand banning and suspensions, sometimes it has to be done. But this is something different, a whitewash of sorts.

Michael

BROTHER ....Mine said the same thing at the end it said never ..i just told them  good thing  i was slow in sending in my support donation ,now that this change has happened and there isnt a eastern christian sub-forum for us orthodox i'll never send it in ...thats the reason i got banned.....they sent me several solicitations to my e-mail asking for my support donation.  but failed to tell us, of the forum changes that were comming ... im just woundering how many orthodox   sent in there support donations and still got the  boot ...    .stashko      

[stashko]

Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

was'nt  east and west  the biggest critic toward us orthodox, and your conversion story on catholic answers forum ...stashko

[Ziggernaut]

Glory to Jesus Christ!  Glory to Him Forever!

Greetings to all, especially my former CAF colleagues!!

I, too, was permanently banned from CAF.  I guess it was on the strength (or weakness!) of my last post, and I can't even remember what it said.  Age can be a terrible thing, eh  ?!

For the most part, I really enjoyed the discourse over there, but things did start getting nasty of late.  And, though I hate to cast aspersions, it was mainly from Latin Catholics.  So, what did they do?
Therese Martin put a new twist on an old adage by adopting the postition of "If you can't stand the heat, kick the dog out of the kitchen" !  Guess who the dog was?  

After going through a withdrawal and resentment period, I am now on the road to recovery.  Amazing what renewed prayer can achieve!

It really is amazing how many of us Orthodox got the boot!  And interesting how little activity there is on the new sub-forum now that so many of us are gone, or won't post because of their draconian rules, compared with the now-dead Eastern Christianity sub-forum.

Schism they wanted, schism they got.  How very sad, really!

I look forward to interesting discussions here.

Many blessings,
Jeff

[Αριστοκλής]

A big welcome to all CAF refugees.

[Mickey]

Hi Jeff! Hi stashko! Hi Michael! You guys are like family to me.  So good to see you again. 

[Ziggernaut]

A big welcome to all CAF refugees.

Many, many thanks!

Jeff

[Ziggernaut]

Hi Jeff! Hi stashko! Hi Michael! You guys are like family to me.  So good to see you again. 

Hi Mickey!
Ditto that 

Oh, and by the way, Stashko, I don't believe EWTN and Catholic Answers are affiliated in any way other than sharing the same Latin faith.

God Bless,
Jeff

[ignatius]

Sorry to hear all the trouble over there. I still have my account over there! 

But it is a little lonely... 

[JoeS]

Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

Hi,

My observation on CA was that it became impossible to answer a non-Orthodox inquiry about theology or Traditions without compromising the rules the Moderator felt were violated.  They wanted us to refraim for using Orthodox Catholic and the word Catholic is it refers to us. We say the Creed each Sunday and to be denied our faith on that forum was to me at least a rejection of our beliefs. 

We did have some very good debators on CA and I think they held up to most if not all questions posed to them very well.  It wasnt our goal to convert anyone because that was part of the forum's rules but as chance always has it, those who were interested in our ancient faith began to investigate our faith and read up on things and found out that we are the Church as instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. 

The previous moderator was very understanding and maybe too understanding since he was quickly replaced by one who made liberal use of the banning feature there. I had on occassions been the recipient of a few suspensions, which I deserved, but I felt that the old moderator was more than fair to us Orthodox Catholic Christians.

JoeS   

[Fr. George]

To the refugees,

Well, I hope you all find a "safe haven" to interact here.  As with any site on the internet we have our kooks, but otherwise people are pretty good on OC.net. 

[Jakub]

Please define the term "kooks" 

[Ziggernaut]

Hi,

My observation on CA was that it became impossible to answer a non-Orthodox inquiry about theology or Traditions without compromising the rules the Moderator felt were violated.  They wanted us to refraim for using Orthodox Catholic and the word Catholic is it refers to us. We say the Creed each Sunday and to be denied our faith on that forum was to me at least a rejection of our beliefs. 

We did have some very good debators on CA and I think they held up to most if not all questions posed to them very well.  It wasnt our goal to convert anyone because that was part of the forum's rules but as chance always has it, those who were interested in our ancient faith began to investigate our faith and read up on things and found out that we are the Church as instituted by Our Lord Jesus Christ. 

The previous moderator was very understanding and maybe too understanding since he was quickly replaced by one who made liberal use of the banning feature there. I had on occassions been the recipient of a few suspensions, which I deserved, but I felt that the old moderator was more than fair to us Orthodox Catholic Christians.

JoeS   

Yes, Joe was pretty fair.  Therese, on the other hand.........Suffice it to say that after 5 emails the only explanation I ever got for my account being frozen was "You violated the forum rules".  And I don't think I said anything that "bad", either.  Well, I guess I must have, eh?

Oh well, it's their football, and if they want to take it home and play with it by themselves, they have that right.  What would have been nice, not to mention Christian, would have been to give a little warning about things, and a little latitude, at least in the beginning.

What's done is done, however.  We can but pray for them.

Blessings,
Jeff

[Papist]

Poppycock! The Orthodox posters defended their faith eloquently and the Latins could not bear it. You show your ignorance here as you say that Orthodox "are not Catholic in the full sense of the word." Fr Ambrose was a pillar in defending the true faith. The papal Catholics and many of the moderators could not handle it.

Using the word Poppycock doesn't make what you are saying true. The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admitt this when it is blatant.

[Ziggernaut]

Using the word Poppycock doesn't make what you are saying true. The fact is that Joe, the moderator constantly allowed the EOs to say whatever they wanted without consequence, while punishing Catholics for defending the Catholic faith. You show your ignorance in that you will not even admitt this when it is blatant.

Ahhh, here we go...........

I'm sure Mickey will have something to say about this, but I'll pipe in with my 2-cents worth.

Please back your claim up with facts.  I think the only Latin Catholics that were "punished" were punished, not for defending their faith, but for how they did that.  And how do you know that no Orthodox suffered, as you say, "consequences"?

Blessings,
Jeff

[Fr. George]

Noticing that there are quite a few new members, and many of y'all identifying yourselves as former CA members, I thought I'd extend a welcome from the moderator team here at OC.net.

We're happy to have you all as a part of our wonderful board.  Please feel free to Private Message myself or any other members of the Admin/Mod team with any questions that you have.

I thought I'd reference a few information threads that would be useful to read before "getting into the nitty-gritty."

Posting Policy
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10945.0.html

There are other such useful threads stickied at the top of Board News.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/board,1.0.html

If you're interested in Political discussion, or in polemical discussion between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, please PM FrChris (the board Administrator) and he'll add you to the Private Forums list.

As with most online forums, check out the sticky threads at the top of each board for area-specific guidelines/rules.

Finally, since you're coming from a forum with sections for RC/EC/OC, I just want to let you know that we avoid the word "Uniate" here on OC.net.  That word paves a short road to a warning.

Thank you all for joining us here, and I pray that you find it a hospitable place and a good location for challenging and edifying discussion!

Cleveland
Global Moderator