catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion

[Jimmy]

I see that all the former EC posters, including Catholics are now coming to post over here.

[Αριστοκλής]

I can tell you that StMarkEofE was one of the first to get banned forever. I know this first hand.

JoeS(StMarkEofE)

I never knew you were the same fellow. I was always impressed with your 'work' over there.

Funny thing for me...I only joined there a couple years ago at the request of a member here who wanted some backup over there for our use of "Orthodox Catholic" nomenclature.

[Catholig]

Hey Everyone, I post over at CAF, but came over here from a link on the new Eastern Catholicism forum. I just wanted to suggest - since I never was part of the thing at the Eastern Christianity forum that it would be interesting to post some thread similar to those (with the exception of any personal attacks) on here. I would be interested in seeing these apologetic arguments that are so powerful that no Latin could answer them.

Catholig

[Αριστοκλής]

"A" thread? <chuckle>

Take a few 'minutes' and peruse the 'Orthodox-Catholic Discussion' boards here. You'll find plenty; IIRC, the "Thou Art Peter' thread was a quite memorable.

[Fr. George]

Now we are the ones going out on a limb entering the 'enemy' territory. 

The limb is strong, and the enemies don't shoot (well, at least the sane ones don't shoot much)...

[Jetavan]

So many excellent posts.

Three years of Fr Ambrose's answers.

Barbarians.

I'm so sad.

And if I remember correctly, Fr Ambrose had 18,997 posts. Closing down the EC forum was simply a diversionary tactic to the real motive: preventing Fr Ambrose from reaching 19,000 posts!

[Paisius]

I'm one of those who were banned from CAF. No explantion was given and the ban is permanent.

Perhaps I can find a new home here......


Your unworthy servant
Paisius

[ialmisry]

Just to be brief for starters:

Obadiah, my post in the ECath forum saying I was glad to see you back is the only one I'm posting there (though I can't say I was totally happy with the going out with a blaze you did).  Glad to have you back.

Yes, I'm still around on CAF, but I will only post in Apologetics or Non-Catholic [sic] Religions.

Glad, and touched, that not only Easterners (Yashua and Jimmy continue the good fight on the replacement forum) under Rome, but also Latins have come here.  I for one won't be sawing their limb off.

When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:

"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like "in my opinion." There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."

I guess we have to prove them wrong.  Pure gold fears no fire.

I saw some posting that Fr. Ambrose was here, but posting under another name.  Father?

Yes, it seems Winston Smith of the Congregation of Truth is the new moderator.   If you just started a day ago, you would not have known about the non-Forum.

I was in the midst of posting when the ax fell.  I am REALLY bummed on the disappearance of the EC threads even from archives.

[BrotherAidan]

And if I remember correctly, Fr Ambrose had 18,997 posts. Closing down the EC forum was simply a diversionary tactic to the real motive: preventing Fr Ambrose from reaching 19,000 posts!

how many years did it take to make that many posts?
that's alot!

[stashko]

I can tell you that StMarkEofE was one of the first to get banned forever. I know this first hand.

JoeS(StMarkEofE)

Ok... are most of the orthodox from catholic answers forum keeping there names from there,and transfering them here so we dont lose track of each other...by not recognizing them by the new names,,  like for instants you  as joeS  ...just a thought...stashko :

[PeterTheAleut]

When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:

"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like 'in my opinion.' There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."

I think I know full well the online name of the poster who sent you this PM.  Please don't take his word to be truly representative of how we treat RC posters on this forum, for much of what he related to you was really how we responded to his posts specifically.

I guess we have to prove them wrong.  Pure gold fears no fire.

Well, I hope you can see that my fellow Admins/Moderators and I are committed to fostering an environment for respectful discussion of even those issues that are certain to arouse disagreement, recognizing as you do that "pure gold fears no fire".

- PeterTheAleut


Post edited by author to delete inaccurate statement.  I'm thinking now that I spoke of a different poster who no longer posts here.  - PeterTheAleut

[Paisius]

Now we are the ones going out on a limb entering the 'enemy' territory. 

That's what I don't understand. Of course it's nice to have an opportunity to talk about specifically Orthodox issues with other Orthodox Christians but I've always gotten the most enjoyment from talking with Christians from traditions other than my own. And for some reason the group that stimulates me the most is Roman Catholics.

Maybe some of our Roman Catholic friends will join us here?

Yours in Christ
Paisius

[Salpy]

"I'm not sure I remember the site address, but I think it's orthdoxchristianity.net. Moreover, they were not so bold as to make what I said a public policy, but it was the way the moderator handled the forum.

On that forum if a Catholic was thinking of converting to Orthodoxy, a Catholic was not permitted to argue against it, but the Orthodox were allowed to encourage it. On the Catholic Answers forum both sides may speak in such instances.

At one point I was told by the moderator that if I wanted to state my views regarding doctrine that I was required to preface it with a phrase like "in my opinion." There was no such requirement for Orthodox posters.

Moreover, while the Catholic posters were required to walk on eggshells, the Orthodox posters were permitted to be as rude as they wanted to be; and some of them (not all, by any means) took full advantage of that, even to the point of name-calling.

I stopped going there after awhile."

It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  

[JoeS]

Hey Everyone, I post over at CAF, but came over here from a link on the new Eastern Catholicism forum. I just wanted to suggest - since I never was part of the thing at the Eastern Christianity forum that it would be interesting to post some thread similar to those (with the exception of any personal attacks) on here. I would be interested in seeing these apologetic arguments that are so powerful that no Latin could answer them.

Catholig

Im hoping I state this clearly:

It was my experience there that when I gave an answer to a question it wasnt taken as an explanation to our faith so much as a challenge to the questioner. Answering questions on a Catholic website by Orthodox can sometimes come across as being too anachronistic vs. being relevant in this modern world.

Unfortunately, the moderator found it necessary to purge not just the posters but the posters archived files of which layed much valuable information that had taken much time to compile. Now that is all down the toilet.  All this may have to be built up again, maybe not.

[wynd]

Unfortunately, the moderator found it necessary to purge not just the posters but the posters archived files of which layed much valuable information that had taken much time to compile. Now that is all down the toilet.  All this may have to be built up again, maybe not.

It is too bad. I had several posts and threads bookmarked because of the wonderful information they contained. Now it's gone. At least I had the foresight to copy some of it to disk first.

[JoeS]

It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  

Funny, I got entirely the opposite impression on CAF. The Romans were given a lot of latitude in some of their diatribes against Orthodox posters.  I know one thing for sure, Orthodox posters go more warnings than their counterparts.  I was suspended more than three times, and Im considered one of the milder posters. I bent over backwards not to bring personalities into the fray, but I again state that answers were not taken as answers so much as challenges.

But, all in all, Im more than happy being back in more friendlier territory.

JoeS

[Jimmy]

I saw some posting that Fr. Ambrose was here, but posting under another name.  Father?

ialmisry, when I said that I miss-spoke.  Fr hasn't been posting here.  I am hoping that he will come here.

[Jo Ann]

I miss you all so much and was so happy to find most of here.  I was "lurking" at CAF for almost a year while discerning Holy Orthodoxy.  Actually, it was an article in This Rockmagazine which lead me study and learn about Eastern Orthodoxy.  I was a very happy Latin with no problems in my church.  The more I read, the more uncomfortable RC seemed.  So, in a way, CAF was very instrumental in helping my husband and I make this change.  We have 5 children attending a very traditional Roman Catholic school grades K5 thru 9.  The road will be difficult, but worth every step!  My SSPX and Opus Dei friends are confused at our change, but trying to understand.

I am glad to have found you all again.  I probably will not post much... it is just so nice to be here!

Glory to God!

Jo Ann

[Jimmy]

Funny, I got entirely the opposite impression on CAF. The Romans were given a lot of latitude in some of their diatribes against Orthodox posters.  I know one thing for sure, Orthodox posters go more warnings than their counterparts.  I was suspended more than three times, and Im considered one of the milder posters. I bent over backwards not to bring personalities into the fray, but I again state that answers were not taken as answers so much as challenges.

But, all in all, Im more than happy being back in more friendlier territory.

JoeS

May I ask who you were on CAF?  From the little statement bellow your picture I would guess St.MarkEofE.

[Jakub]

But what about BOB ? Has he been left behind ? Oh my...

[PeterTheAleut]

When I first started posting at CAF (a mere three months ago) I got a PM, to a PM I sent to a posting about how liberal the Latins were in contrast to the Orthodox:

Continuing my most recent previous post on this thread:

Just a friendly moderatorial caution that, even though we Orthodox posters here do speak openly our criticisms of Roman Catholic faith and praxis, the use of the pseudonym "Latins" in reference to Latin-Rite Catholics has taken on a pejorative meaning that we find unacceptable here.  Therefore, out of respect for our Catholic posters, we ask that posters not refer to them as "Latins".  Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.


Otherwise, I offer yet another big, hearty welcome from the Admin/Moderator team to the flood of new posters seeking refuge here from the recent shakedown at CAF.  I will do my part to make sure your time here is positive and edifying.

- PeterTheAleut
Faith Issues Section Moderator

[JoeS]

May I ask who you were on CAF?  From the little statement bellow your picture I would guess St.MarkEofE.

Your guess is correct.  I just hate to loose those 4,400+ posts because they had some good info on them.

JoeS

[JoeS]

But what about BOB ? Has he been left behind ? Oh my...

Which Bob are you referring to?

JoeS

[Jimmy]

Your guess is correct.  I just hate to loose those 4,400+ posts because they had some good info on them.

JoeS

Yes, there was a great deal of information that I would like to have.

Peter, I like your signature, 'truth is often in the paradox'.  That is how my tradition views things.

[Jakub]

I was referring to Orthodoc...

I have no problem with the majority of labels/terms using the word Latin...it's the majority of the American Catholic's who have a problem with it.

I have aquired Rhino Skin over these many years...


james

though papalist tweeks me abit 

[Αριστοκλής]

Papalist is 'out' too, I'm afraid.

And I think Orthodoc is angry because he can't use the "U-word" here.


{I didn't know libations caused tough hide}

[Pravoslavbob]

Just a friendly moderatorial caution that, even though we Orthodox posters here do speak openly our criticisms of Roman Catholic faith and praxis, the use of the pseudonym "Latins" in reference to Latin-Rite Catholics has taken on a pejorative meaning that we find unacceptable here.  Therefore, out of respect for our Catholic posters, we ask that posters not refer to them as "Latins".  Thank you in advance for your anticipated cooperation.

I frankly find this way too politically correct.  I don't even get it.  To me, it's like saying we can't call the Orthodox Church "the Greek Church" because people might find it pejorative.  For the longest time scholars have used the terms "the Latin Church" or "Latins" to refer to the Catholic West or "the Greek Church" or "Greeks" (particularly in terms of Mediterranean situations) when referring to the Orthodox East, especially when contrasting the two ecclesial bodies.  IMHO it's just too bad if people find the terms pejorative, and if people are using it/them in a way that is designed to put people down, that's simply ignorant.  In previous posts (not recently), I have often made references to "the Latin Church," with no intention to put down Catholics.  Not being able to use these terms can make discourse more unwieldy at times.  Since the moderators have made the decision not to use these/this term(s), I will endeavor to not use them again, but I think that this point had to be made.

James

[PeterTheAleut]

I was referring to Orthodoc...

I have no problem with the majority of labels/terms using the word Latin...it's the majority of the American Catholic's who have a problem with it.

I have aquired Rhino Skin over these many years...


james

though papalist tweeks me abit 

Which explains our intolerance of the derogatory names "Papist" or "Papalist" (except in reference to a specific poster here who actually calls himself Papist), as well.

[Αριστοκλής]

Well, James, we do have a number of Eastern Catholic members who bristle at "Latins".

I make no further comment, personally.

[PeterTheAleut]

I frankly find this way too politically correct.  I don't even get it.  To me, it's like saying we can't call the Orthodox Church "the Greek Church" because people might find it pejorative.  For the longest time scholars have used the terms "the Latin Church" or "Latins" to refer to the Catholic West or "the Greek Church" or "Greeks" (particularly in terms of Mediterranean situations) when referring to the Orthodox East, especially when contrasting the two ecclesial bodies.  IMHO it's just too bad if people find the terms pejorative, and if people are using it/them in a way that is designed to put people down, that's simply ignorant.  In previous posts (not recently), I have often made references to "the Latin Church," with no intention to put down Catholics.  Not being able to use these terms can make discourse more unwieldy at times.  You will hear no more from me about this in future since the moderators have made this decision and I will endeavor to not use these terms again, but I think that this point had to be made.

James

Actually, I believe our concern is not with any reference to the RC Churches of the Latin Rite as the "Latin Church", since this is often used in academic literature, IIRC.  We're primarily concerned with any application of the term "Latins" to individual Catholics, since many do use this in an intentionally insulting manner.

[Apotheoun]

I was sorry to see the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum at CAF.  

Almost all of my posts have been deleted.

[wynd]

I was sorry to see the closing of the Eastern Christianity forum at CAF. 

Almost all of my posts have been deleted.

Nice to see you here Apotheoun. I always liked your posts.

[Pravoslavbob]

Actually, I believe our concern is not with any reference to the RC Churches of the Latin Rite as the "Latin Church", since this is often used in academic literature, IIRC.  We're primarily concerned with any application of the term "Latins" to individual Catholics, since many do use this in an intentionally insulting manner.

Well, okay.....I guess this makes sense.  I suppose it is usually quite easy to know where to draw the line in this case.

[Apotheoun]

Nice to see you here Apotheoun. I always liked your posts.

Thanks.   

[Alexius]

Hey everyone! I forget I had opened an account on here some time ago, but seeing as CAF has just about banned the Orthodox, I figured I'd see people here...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

[Alexius]

I don't understand what happened, though. One minute I'm reading and replying to posts and the next I'm being archieved! It's one thing to warn people, but to just close it on a whim--I don't know...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

[wynd]

I don't understand what happened, though. One minute I'm reading and replying to posts and the next I'm being archieved! It's one thing to warn people, but to just close it on a whim--I don't know...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

And the next minute you're being deleted.

It's their board and they can do what they want with it, including ban people who (whether intentionally or not) convert people away from the RCC. But I still don't like it.

[stashko]

ialmisry, when I said that I miss-spoke.  Fr hasn't been posting here.  I am hoping that he will come here.

Brother jimmy and Brother Isa...
 Father Ambrose e-mailed me ,,asked if i was banned ,i said yes i was..i e-mailed back told i'll be here on orthodox christiany. net..he probable knows were almost all here....stashko

[Alexius]

And the next minute you're being deleted.

It's their board and they can do what they want with it, including ban people who (whether intentionally or not) convert people away from the RCC. But I still don't like it.

It's a shame, really. I'm not banned, but that's because I'm Catholic. I've always said that I'm in more agreement with the Orthodox than the Latin church and just the other day, I got asked why I'm not Orthodox then. Probably because I haven't had the chance, yet. It will happen, though. I have already alerted my parents who have mixed feelings (they're evangelicals) that I will become Orthodox.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

[Apotheoun]

Sad to say, but the new Eastern Catholicism forum appears to be designed to force Eastern Catholics -- like me -- to conform to Latin doctrinal formulations.

[orthodoxlurker]

Thanks.   

I want to second wynd's impression. Your postings, Apotheoun, were so edifying to me.

Many, many so informative posts - not only from the Orthodox posters headed by Fr Ambrose, Isa Almisry, Heracliades, Hesychios, Orthodoc, Reader Arsenios, StMarkofE, Montalban, ICXC NIKA, but also of RC and U-(forbidden - I'm really puzzled why) - Apotheoun being the first "among equals", Ghosty, Mardukm, Catholig, and many, many others.

A real treasury deleted!

Why? These posts were not showing only the Orthodox "upper hand"! For Christ sake, I got not only better understanding of our differencies there, but better appreciation, for instance, of Thomas Aquinas, who is now more acceptable to me in religious terms than he used to be! (Reader Arsenios and Ghosty should be credited for that specific topic.) And so many quotations and links in context about so many issues. A treasury!

Occasional fire was mostly the consequence of misperception, ignorance of otherone's attitude and priorities and quite rarely of ill intentions, at least that's my impression.

My account hasn't been suspended there, but it was requested I change password. I wanted to check PM there - what's the point of writing for a trash can?

There is no better learning method than reading polemics, and participating in them. And so many fine reasonings - all deleted. I'm so sad.

But I'm glad I see all and each one of present CAF posters here.

[ialmisry]

It's too bad that this perception exists about our forum.  I guess you are right that we will all have to prove this wrong.  This is especially so if we want more of our Roman Catholic friends to join us here for stimulating dialogue.  

I notice that you are Armenian.  A frequent complaint I had on ECF (of course, it wasn't their fault) was that the number of non-Chalcedonians Orthodox was nearly non-existent. In fact, I think we only had a few Copts and Syriacs who had submitted to Rome. I always felt a little queasy speaking for the Copts, Mar Thoma, Armenians, etc., but I wanted make sure their views were heard too.

[ialmisry]

I miss you all so much and was so happy to find most of here.  I was "lurking" at CAF for almost a year while discerning Holy Orthodoxy.  Actually, it was an article in This Rockmagazine which lead me study and learn about Eastern Orthodoxy.  I was a very happy Latin with no problems in my church.  The more I read, the more uncomfortable RC seemed.  So, in a way, CAF was very instrumental in helping my husband and I make this change.  We have 5 children attending a very traditional Roman Catholic school grades K5 thru 9.  The road will be difficult, but worth every step!  My SSPX and Opus Dei friends are confused at our change, but trying to understand.

I am glad to have found you all again.  I probably will not post much... it is just so nice to be here!

Glory to God!

Jo Ann

Given that background, are you considering Western Rite?

[ialmisry]

Hey everyone! I forget I had opened an account on here some time ago, but seeing as CAF has just about banned the Orthodox, I figured I'd see people here...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Same here.

Btw I'd post on all of you, how much I enjoyed your posts, both Orthodox and those with Rome, but I'm afraid I would have to do so so often I'd be accused of bloating my posting number.

[paradoxy]

Hey there!

Another Orthodox member of CAF here! I didn't get banned, because I never had anything too smart to contribute in the debate, so I guess I'm not dangerous.

So glad to see you all here!   I can't believe some of you got banned - whatever for? - and in such a secretive way!? This is very sad indeed.

Danica in Serbia

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