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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 279253 times) Average Rating: 0
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orthodoxlurker
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« Reply #810 on: November 29, 2007, 12:37:15 PM »

*
....I have been keeping in touch with sympathetic people in the CAF Administration and can assure you that ...
Well, hopefully they'll get the archive back.

Concerning legality, I won't say straightforward it's illegal, but if there is any brach there, it would be breach of copyright over posts published by users for years.

I'm not familiar with the copyright and litigation laws of U.S. to the extent I can offer a legal advice, but they are for sure bound by Universal and Bern Conventions on copyright.

Problems could arise regarding first owner of copyright in cases of pseudonyms, but Fr Ambrose (and Papa Ambrogio) were publishing under their real names, so that problem wouldn't apply to them. The breach is constituted by the fact that these posts vanished, and are not available to their authors, whom relied on their availability there once a post is published, unless the post violated any rule set by CAF. That would constitute a contract by adherence (there are rules of internpretation of such by adherence contracts by ICC, in favour of those whom adhered - i.e. the authors of the posts in this case). Or, the doctrine of breach of confidence could apply to the case. The same breach of confidence, and perhaps even malicious falsehood doctrines could apply to our bannishment without the reference made available to the public. OUr goodwill has been infringed by it, and Fr Ambrose and Papa Ambrogio certainly do have to take care of their goodwill/reputation.

On these legal grounds, there is no need to launch a litigation before a competent US court, there is also possibility of much cheapear and faster WIPO arbitration, provided CAF agree.

Yet another problem could be the case of discrimination, more particularly, religious discrimination, which is against the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UN, 1948). Namely, they wipped off the entire board and censored published posts, though nobody said we broke any rule CAF set. They are entitled to do so, but making the archives unavailable, unlike in other cases, makes possible copyright breach and violation of author's rights even worse. However, on these grounds the plaintiff would need a case before the court and WIPO arbitration wouldn't be appropriate.

Kindly note the above is neither legal advice, nor an opinion about if they did make any breach of violation, just a speculation about the applicable legal principles.

But I do suggest to CAF members to consult their attorney before disregarding what's writen here.

Hopefully we'll see the archives back and nothing of the above will happen.
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« Reply #811 on: November 29, 2007, 12:42:22 PM »

Please correct me if I am wrong, but in their "Staff" forum I got the distinct impression that CAF may be having second thoughts about what happened on there and will be reviewing the deleted archives and after reviewing (screening) them will be posting them under a "for view only" forum?



Sanitized, huh? Sort of like the publishing of the Pedalion in Italy after papal redacting...
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« Reply #812 on: November 29, 2007, 12:46:21 PM »

Well, hopefully they'll get the archive back.

Concerning legality, I won't say straightforward it's illegal, but if there is any brach there, it would be breach of copyright over posts published by users for years.

I'm not familiar with the copyright and litigation laws of U.S. to the extent I can offer a legal advice, but they are for sure bound by Universal and Bern Conventions on copyright.

Problems could arise regarding first owner of copyright in cases of pseudonyms, but Fr Ambrose (and Papa Ambrogio) were publishing under their real names, so that problem wouldn't apply to them. The breach is constituted by the fact that these posts vanished, and are not available to their authors, whom relied on their availability there once a post is published, unless the post violated any rule set by CAF. That would constitute a contract by adherence (there are rules of internpretation of such by adherence contracts by ICC, in favour of those whom adhered - i.e. the authors of the posts in this case). Or, the doctrine of breach of confidence could apply to the case. The same breach of confidence, and perhaps even malicious falsehood doctrines could apply to our bannishment without the reference made available to the public. OUr goodwill has been infringed by it, and Fr Ambrose and Papa Ambrogio certainly do have to take care of their goodwill/reputation.

On these legal grounds, there is no need to launch a litigation before a competent US court, there is also possibility of much cheapear and faster WIPO arbitration, provided CAF agree.

Yet another problem could be the case of discrimination, more particularly, religious discrimination, which is against the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UN, 1948). Namely, they wipped off the entire board and censored published posts, though nobody said we broke any rule CAF set. They are entitled to do so, but making the archives unavailable, unlike in other cases, makes possible copyright breach and violation of author's rights even worse. However, on these grounds the plaintiff would need a case before the court and WIPO arbitration wouldn't be appropriate.

Kindly note the above is neither legal advice, nor an opinion about if they did make any breach of violation, just a speculation about the applicable legal principles.

But I do suggest to CAF members to consult their attorney before disregarding what's writen here.

Hopefully we'll see the archives back and nothing of the above will happen.

I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?
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« Reply #813 on: November 29, 2007, 12:54:52 PM »

I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?

Well, if CAF doesn't get the archives back, and Fr Ambrose decides to go after it before WIPO, I'm sure I can recommend someone who would decently represent his case there. And the question you pose would be decided there.
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« Reply #814 on: November 29, 2007, 01:01:58 PM »

I guess it boils down to: Are our writings lawfully protected on a public forum much the same as writing poems, books, editorials, articles, etc. in spite of the forum terms that we agree to?
Though I must admit I've never studied CAF terms. Have they been published?

Anyway, I do doubt there is distincion there against Orthodox Christians in their rules. It would be violation of mentioned UN Declaration on Human Rights.

And, yes, the copyright does subsist in these posts. It's only the problem of the first owner of copyright. However, unlike in US, the concept of authori's right is set by Universal and Berne Convention (US adhered to the later in 1992), so, what I'm speaking (writing) isn't just smoke and mirrors.
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« Reply #815 on: November 29, 2007, 01:05:59 PM »

Though I must admit I've never studied CAF terms. Have they been published?

Anyway, I do doubt there is distincion there against Orthodox Christians in their rules. It would be violation of mentioned UN Declaration on Human Rights.

And, yes, the copyright does subsist in these posts. It's only the problem of the first owner of copyright. However, unlike in US, the concept of authori's right is set by Universal and Berne Convention (US adhered to the later in 1992), so, what I'm speaking (writing) isn't just smoke and mirrors.

The terms are presented and have to be agreed to prior to one becoming a member of the forum. Im not sure whether or not these terms can be accessed outside of being a member in good standings.  I guess another question would be: Are the terms and conditions one agrees to lawful to begin with?
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« Reply #816 on: November 29, 2007, 02:13:21 PM »

The terms are presented and have to be agreed to prior to one becoming a member of the forum. Im not sure whether or not these terms can be accessed outside of being a member in good standings.  I guess another question would be: Are the terms and conditions one agrees to lawful to begin with?

As I expect the by-laws will give them complete ownership of anything published there.

Here are their rules from the registration form:

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« Reply #817 on: November 30, 2007, 01:33:43 AM »

...also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)

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« Reply #818 on: November 30, 2007, 02:30:43 AM »

I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

1. It speaks of the essence/ energies distinction

2. It speaks of a diversity of the energies, Ghosty asserts they are one and "simple."

3. It is quoted by the Coptic Orthodox Metropolitan Bishoy in his monograph "Deification of Man and the Interpretation of "Partakers of the Divine Nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

http://www.metroplit-bishoy.org/english/index.htm

Now these are all important points which overturn Ghosty's and Mardukm's theologising but they have decided to ignore the quotation and press on with their own interpretations. Pity that Saint Basil was not factored into their responses.

Saint Basil the Great:

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius
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« Reply #819 on: November 30, 2007, 03:34:17 AM »

The banning bears fruit.

Two messages from CAF Catholics who have made the decision to convert to Orthodoxy.

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« Reply #820 on: November 30, 2007, 04:30:56 AM »

St. Basil in his Contra Eunomium when speaking of the many names applied to Christ in the Gospels highlights the real diversity of His energies, while he simultaneously affirms the unity and simplicity of His essence, for as he puts it:

". . . not all names mutually refer to the same thing.  For that which is indicated by 'light' is one thing, and by 'vine' another, and by 'road' another, and by 'shepherd' another.  Although He is one in substrate and has one simple uncomposed essence, He names Himself differently at different times; He adopts names different from each other in concept.  For He takes to Himself different names according to His different energies and according to His relationship towards the objects of His kindness." [St. Basil, Contra Eunomium, 1:7]

Now, in opposition to St. Basil's comments above, in which he affirms the real distinction between the various titles of Christ that describe His energies, Ghosty says that, ". . . God is simple in that His Justice, His Mercy, His Love, His Life, His Being, etc., are all the same thing, one and entire." [CAF thread entitled, Debate on Essence and Energies, post #112]

But this view of divine simplicity, as St. Basil points out in his Contra Eunomium, is utter nonsense, for as he says, "How, therefore, is it not absurd to say that craftsmanship is His essence?  Or again, that His providence is His essence?  Or again, that His prescience is likewise?  And, in general how is it not absurd to make every energy His essence?" [St. Basil, Contra Eunomium, 1:8]

Clearly, for St. Basil, and for the other Eastern Fathers as well, the divine simplicity does not involve the destruction of the real distinction between God's many energies (e.g., His providence, His justice, His life, His mercy, etc.); instead, God is simple because His essence is indivisibly present within each of His many energies, for the energies are truly manifold, while the essence is utterly one.
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« Reply #821 on: November 30, 2007, 04:33:01 AM »

It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #822 on: November 30, 2007, 04:41:38 AM »

The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
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He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.

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« Reply #823 on: November 30, 2007, 04:41:50 AM »

I have over 500 posts at CAF, but if you do a search for my posts you will find only 30 of them, and of those just four are dated prior to November 2007.
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« Reply #824 on: November 30, 2007, 04:44:33 AM »

It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.
*
He wrote that he was so downcast about the banning of the Orthodox that he ceased his daily Saints' Lives in solidarity with us.  But time does heal all things and he must be feeling more chipper now and has resumed them.
Today (30 November) is the commemoration of St. Tugdual of Brittany
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints

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« Reply #825 on: November 30, 2007, 04:52:30 AM »

He wrote that he was so downcast about the banning of the Orthodox that he ceased his daily Saints' Lives in solidarity with us.  But time does heal all things and he must be feeling more chipper now and has resumed them.

He also was not, until now, being offered a venue in which to post them - not in the way he had previously done so. That stickied thread that Joe had put up for him was among the early casualties of the "change-over" - it disappeared even before Joe "retired", along with the Reference Threads. Note the gap 11/6 - followed by 11/29  Shocked

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #826 on: November 30, 2007, 04:56:07 AM »

The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
_______________________

He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.

I don't think he has ever had an acct here, but he had one at byzcath back before he translated from OO to OC. I havent seen him post there in a long time, but the acct will still be there and might be that the e-mail link hasnt changed - I'll check

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #827 on: November 30, 2007, 06:23:22 AM »

I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.


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« Reply #828 on: November 30, 2007, 06:33:40 AM »

I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints?
Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
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« Reply #829 on: November 30, 2007, 07:34:25 AM »

I don't know if anyone is really considering this sort of thing, but I thought I would mention this:

1 Corinthians 6:1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church![a] 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!
 7The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

*
The thing is that the employees of CAF give the impression that they are some kind of super court in themselves, intransigent, unquestionable and untouchable.  They have made it abundantly clear that the rules they create may be questioned by no one and even to mention, let alone question, any CAF employee's decision is grounds for instant punishment.  Members are suspended and banned with no reasons given.  Truth means little to the CAF people. As we have seen they enter fraudulent reasons on the pop up notifications given to those banned.  They conceal the bannings from the rest of their members.

To my mind this is a seriously sick organisation.  It appears to have created a group of super elite employees who do not accept the norms of truth and human concern, warmth and communication with which the rest of us operate.

Today (30 November) is the commemoration of St. Tugdual of Brittany
See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints
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« Reply #830 on: November 30, 2007, 07:39:21 AM »

It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil

Yes, the post under my name are basically all the ones I posted outside ECF.
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« Reply #831 on: November 30, 2007, 07:46:54 AM »

Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
True enough.  I just think Christians should hesitate to use legal action against each other, unless it's absolutely necessary, if for no other reason then that it looks very bad to non-Christians.

And, just so it's clear, I very much disagree with the action taken by Catholic Answers.
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« Reply #832 on: November 30, 2007, 08:00:27 AM »

Doesn't this presume the existence of an Ecclesiatical Court recognized by both sides of the dispute?
Perhaps if someone has an inside track to an individual who is in on one of the various Orthodox- Catholic discussions going on, he could mention it as something in need of clarification or settlement.
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« Reply #833 on: November 30, 2007, 08:32:49 AM »

True enough.  I just think Christians should hesitate to use legal action against each other, unless it's absolutely necessary, if for no other reason then that it looks very bad to non-Christians.

And, just so it's clear, I very much disagree with the action taken by Catholic Answers.

We are Catholic and Orthodox. Didn't you know we're above scripture? Lol. J/K. (Though everyone acts that ways sometimes).

I think their disclaimer everyone agrees to when signing up would prohibit any such litigation anyway. It would be laughed at and thrown out unless someone is willing to throw allot of money at it that would just be wasted in the end. This is the internet where there are no laws to protect free speech in ones own domain.com. You can consider that site the same as private property. They have the right to prohibit anyone they like within reason and definition of the pre-stated rules which basically blanket any reason - carte blanc from tresspassing. I am sure it wouldn't be hard to extrapolate even more of those reasons from the old forum if pushed that far. To even think there is a case there is ridiculous and just blowing off steam.

I was one banned for just mentioning the old thread so I am not happy about it either. Nor was I pleased to see the EO removed so abruptly. I admit being smug about the change in forum as I was tired of all the passion of the old one and frankly the peace that ensued was a breath of fresh air. The loss of the resource is what I truly regret. But if I want to be set straight on how the EO feel on an issue I can always come here. In fact I have already been told I must repent of all my innovations in round about terms once already and I have barely been here a few days. Totally indicative of the contempt found in the old forum. In a way, I can understand their action as they couldn't possibly keep uncharitable and contemptuous posters restricted to separate threads. Its kind of a few rotten apples ruining the whole barrel situation.

I'm not about to stoop any lower than what got me banned because I am angry and can't swallow my pride. I have seen sites taken down/denied service before. Its only a temporary attack and that definitely is illegal so those with ideas of retribution should beware. Its much better to forgive and forget and let God sort it out.

I wished them all well and a blessed holiday season and I meant it and my IP isn't banned yet I will not re-register without permission. What would be the point? Theres a word that should be kept in mind when one professes to be a Christian and that is Integrity, even if offended or wronged. I have learned from that scripture that says to heap coals of love upon the heads of those who persecute you.

Peace.
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« Reply #834 on: November 30, 2007, 11:12:24 AM »

I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

1. It speaks of the essence/ energies distinction

2. It speaks of a diversity of the energies, Ghosty asserts they are one and "simple."

3. It is quoted by the Coptic Orthodox Metropolitan Bishoy in his monograph "Deification of Man and the Interpretation of "Partakers of the Divine Nature" (2 Pet 1:4)

Saint Basil the Great:

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius


Thank you Fr. Ambrose, I do save these articles for future reference.

A self appointed member of the Father Ambrose continuing education and studies group. Grin

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« Reply #835 on: November 30, 2007, 11:21:23 AM »

I see that Mickey has posted the Saint Basil quote which is important in several ways.

Bless, Father

Yes. I aped the quote from your post here at OC.NET  Grin

I too noticed that it was largely ignored.
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« Reply #836 on: November 30, 2007, 11:29:23 AM »

Bless, Father

Yes. I aped the quote from your post here at OC.NET  Grin

I too noticed that it was largely ignored.

It was not unusual when we made cogent points that our arguments were left to die on the vine and remain unanswered. 
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« Reply #837 on: November 30, 2007, 04:34:47 PM »

The fact that CAF goes on hiding our banning is not good.

I see that Marduk just wrote to Bishop Basil:
________________________
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
_______________________

He obviously thinks that the rest of us have voluntarily chosen to leave CAF.  He is not aware that about 13 of us were secretly banned and it is hard to avoid the conclusion, at least in my mind, that CAF wants to hide this fact from its members.

Anybody among us able to contact him and tell him the truth of what happened?  We did not leave CAF.  The Admin locked us out.



I have an account there.  I sent him a copy of this message to both his inbox and the email he provided me in a PM:

Quote
Marduk,

I am writing in reply to a post made on a different forum from the Orthodox folks who used to post here. They mentioned you:

Quote:
I would also like to express how much I appreciate that you as an Orthodox have chosen to stay with us in the new Forum.

Abundant blessings,
Marduk
"Chosen to stay?" No Marduk. Fr Ambrose and the rest were banned from here but their user names do not reflect that and CAF refuses to change it while also not letting anyone else know that they've been banned, you included, apparently.

Please visit: 

Link to forum, to this thread, etc.

Irini Passi

Hopefully, he'll get one of the two and visit here with y'all.
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« Reply #838 on: November 30, 2007, 11:41:34 PM »

I have an account there.  I sent him a copy of this message to both his inbox and the email he provided me in a PM:

Hopefully, he'll get one of the two and visit here with y'all.

Many thanks!
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« Reply #839 on: December 01, 2007, 09:27:03 AM »

Dear Friends from CAF,

I see the invitation on the front page to apply to join the private forums here where apparently a more incisive form of debate takes place.  But something in my soul draws back.  Did I have a surfeit of that on CAF?  Do I, do we, need a space and a time for healing and wholeness to grow again?  The wounds of how we were thrust out of CAF are still forming scabs and then new skin?  If anyone is on the private forums and wants to say a few words about how they find it there...?
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« Reply #840 on: December 01, 2007, 09:45:39 AM »

Dear Friends from CAF,

I see the invitation on the front page to apply to join the private forums here where apparently a more incisive form of debate takes place.  But something in my soul draws back.  Did I have a surfeit of that on CAF?  Do I, do we, need a space and a time for healing and wholeness to grow again?  The wounds of how we were thrust out of CAF are still forming scabs and then new skin?  If anyone is on the private forums and wants to say a few words about how they find it there...?
Bless, Father!

I just joined the 'private forums' and they're just unmoderated, that's all, which I find beautifully refreshing after CAF. Almost nothing is happening in the RC/EO department (that should change!  Grin), although the EO/OO debate gets hot at times, and there's political discussion as well (mainly pertaining to US politics).

Nothing to be afraid of.  Wink

I hope no rules were broken by briefly describing the 'private' forums on the public one. (Still afraid of unknowingly breaking rules and getting the axe, legacy of CAF  Grin)
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« Reply #841 on: December 01, 2007, 10:04:10 AM »

No, describing the type of posts in the Private Forums not only breaks no rules but actually helps us not to have to move posts that should have been in Private Forums to begin with. Thanks for your contribution.
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« Reply #842 on: December 01, 2007, 01:14:10 PM »

Yes, I have to admit when I first opened an account here, I tried to pursue a thread on OO relations, and was told it was private.  I was a little taken aback.

Now I see that perhaps it's a good thing, as it prevents prying eyes from honest talk.
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« Reply #843 on: December 02, 2007, 12:12:51 AM »

It would appear that a few threads from the earlier forum have resurfaced.

I see that Edwin, may God grant him many years for his labor of love, has been allowed to resume his posting of the daily Saints and Feasts and the older sticky was reinstated.

Additionally, 8 or 9 threads have been restored - including a thread in which Marduk discussess his decision to transfer from the Coptic Orthodox to Coptic Catholic Church. All of the others appear to be from a period of 10 days or so prior to the forum closure - except for one on iconography. It dates back to 2004 and includes a warning about Monastery Icons by John/prodromos, as well as one of the early versions of my link lists on icons.

I was kind of hoping that the thread in which a Latin described iconographic representations as "scary" would resurface. IIRC, that thread had a lot of good material in it; it was one of the threads that Joe was intending to add to the reference thread set.  I'm trying to check for restored threads in the NCR forum, but it's a bit thick for easy checking - never mind, just thought of checking for Father A or myself as posters in that forum.

Hmm, interesting - came up with several for me - but they were chiefly responses to queries people posted about various 'vagante', independent, and Old Catholic bodies. A few, however, were clearly about Eastern Catholicism - one was made to a thread begun by Hagia Sophia, asking about Rites, another to a thread begun by Father, regarding the Eastern roots of Pope John Paul II. Very strange - either those were leftovers from when the East was ghettoized there previously or the restoral process is very rough in its categorization.  Father has about 1150 there, but the 100 or so that I skimmed looked to be in threads that would never have been hosted in the old Eastern forum - some on Celtic Christianity, early church history, and other interests of the good Father.

Many years,

Neil

Yep! A few old threads have resurfaced and more are continuing to resurface in the new EC forum...The other change is that Joe Monahan and another "retired" moderator are off the list of moderators (not even listed as retired anymore...).
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« Reply #844 on: December 03, 2007, 06:45:57 AM »

Yep! A few old threads have resurfaced and more are continuing to resurface in the new EC forum...The other change is that Joe Monahan and another "retired" moderator are off the list of moderators (not even listed as retired anymore...).

Sigh. But have you noticed the "side-effect"? I'm sure the dates they chose aren't accidental: puzzleannie just replied to Fr Ambrose's post from December 1... 2005!!! Who'll really believe Father is banned now? Who bothers to look at the full date of a post? I find this disturbing and think it's just part of the cover-up.

Danica

(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  Undecided
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« Reply #845 on: December 03, 2007, 07:02:43 AM »

The banning bears fruit.

Two messages from CAF Catholics who have made the decision to convert to Orthodoxy.
How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.
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« Reply #846 on: December 03, 2007, 07:04:27 AM »

(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  Undecided
Were you one of the "Zene u crnom"?  How I admired those women!
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« Reply #847 on: December 03, 2007, 07:10:07 AM »

*
Does anybody have any news of Padre Ambrogio in Turin?  Did he survive the Great November Purge?
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« Reply #848 on: December 03, 2007, 07:28:08 AM »

Were you one of the "Zene u crnom"?  How I admired those women!
Bless, Father!

No, I was just a kid back then (I was 14 at the time of the 1996/97 'marathon' protests in Belgrade), but I rarely missed a protest. I cut classes at school to be able to participate in protest walks  Grin

CAF tactics bring back the memories...  Undecided
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« Reply #849 on: December 04, 2007, 01:02:12 AM »

How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.


I received a couple of such messages.  Maybe I should clear out my email at CAF. Embarrassed
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« Reply #850 on: December 04, 2007, 01:33:54 AM »

*
Does anybody have any news of Padre Ambrogio in Turin?  Did he survive the Great November Purge?

I was wondering the same thing...His profile shows his last activity as November 11, and I haven't seen him around, so I would say he has also been banned Sad

Anyone interested could try to contact him via his forum. If you need information on this, PM me.
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« Reply #851 on: December 04, 2007, 01:34:43 AM »

Sigh. But have you noticed the "side-effect"? I'm sure the dates they chose aren't accidental: puzzleannie just replied to Fr Ambrose's post from December 1... 2005!!! Who'll really believe Father is banned now? Who bothers to look at the full date of a post? I find this disturbing and think it's just part of the cover-up.

Danica

(who lived and protested under Milosevic which has been known to cloud her judgement and make her extremely paranoid at times)  Undecided

Yes, I know... Cry

Fortunately, there are still some Orthodox floating around to correct misconceptions and I do too if I see any...There are also many people on CAF interested in Orthodoxy...
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« Reply #852 on: December 04, 2007, 06:49:22 AM »

How these e-mails made it through the CAF system is a mystery.  Probably one of the Mother of God's miracles who wanted people to make contact and come into Orthodoxy.  Glory to God!

But someone at CAF must have learnt of these conversions and my Profile at CAF has been altered today and for Contact Information it reads:

Fr Ambrose has no contact information.

Back to what it was - just sent you a test msg
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« Reply #853 on: December 04, 2007, 06:54:30 AM »

I was wondering the same thing...His profile shows his last activity as November 11, and I haven't seen him around, so I would say he has also been banned Sad

Anyone interested could try to contact him via his forum. If you need information on this, PM me.

With all due respect to my beloved Hibernian friend from next door to  own under, ... and by what I say below, I mean to offer no justification to CAF's banning of him, but ...

the banning of Padre Ambrogio would be the most indefensible thing they could ever conceive of doing - the man has never posted a harsh word nor anything that anyone could perceive as unacceptable.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #854 on: December 04, 2007, 06:12:31 PM »

With all due respect to my beloved Hibernian friend from next door to  own under, ... and by what I say below, I mean to offer no justification to CAF's banning of him, but ...

the banning of Padre Ambrogio would be the most indefensible thing they could ever conceive of doing - the man has never posted a harsh word nor anything that anyone could perceive as unacceptable.

Many years,

Neil

I can attest that I never heard him say anything harsh... Sad
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