OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 28, 2014, 09:33:04 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 269370 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #765 on: November 28, 2007, 03:03:28 PM »

Pardon?
Look Magicsilence, I don't give a toss what anyone believes or where their allegences lie. My best friend in the whole world is Jewish for heaven's sake! I don't care that you're Catholic. People are people no matter what their Creed. It would make no difference to me if the moderators and administrators of CAF were Zoroastrian or even Orthodox- I would still consider it an affront to human dignity that an archive of knowledge built over years should be just wiped out in a single stroke.
So try as you may, you will never convince me of the "justness" of the stunt pulled by CAF in destroying an archive.

Its interesting that you mention "justness".

They claim the archive is not destroyed and that it will be edited. I doubt this and I hope they will prove me wrong but I am not holding my breath.

Why I doubt it is because on several occasions the Moderator - Joe would remove entire threads and promise their return but it never happened but maybe once or twice I can recall. The same excuse was given that he was stretched to thin to get to it. This may well have been the case but on several occasions the thread in question, at least in my mind made a strong point for the Catholic point of view. Irregardless when you promise something you do not follow through on it is as good as lying. I think CAF has good intentions but just aren't following through or are going to be able to. So you know what that amounts to.

To me it sometimes felt that Joe was actually working against the Catholic point of view. The last thread I recall this happening to was on the Filoque and on the nature of the divinity. I felt some real breakthroughs were made in understanding the differing perspectives and then poof it was gone. Something else I observed in that and other threads was that the more it made sense the more offensively some reacted. It seemed that at times if a Catholic or Orthodox position was becoming undeniably strong the reactions would garner more and more disdain until it was closed or simply removed. If a position was gaining in the debate there was often triumphantalism following it up. I was berated for quoting scripture as one example. In all fairness, the Orthodox here that participated should also attest that if a Catholics tone and tenor exceeded the norms of civil discussion and charity they were more frequently dealt with than an irate Orthodox, at least in my assessment. The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

What keeps coming to my mind is the beatitude of - Blessed are the peace makers. Wether the end justifies the means is the question for me. I mean, even I, a Roman Catholic who I might add is no less convinced of his praxis was banned as well just for mentioning the old threads. If I had done this in any other thread other than the EC one I would have been ok. So now they have a thread with special restrictions because Ms. Grant came up with a totalitarian rule so she could have a peaceful thanksgiving with her family. I am wondering what will become of her when the Holidays are over.

Peace.

Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #766 on: November 28, 2007, 03:16:49 PM »

Peacemakers?!!
Sort of like that 'religion of peace'...our way or the highway...(or the ax).
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #767 on: November 28, 2007, 03:22:12 PM »

In all fairness, the Orthodox here that participated should also attest that if a Catholics tone and tenor exceeded the norms of civil discussion and charity they were more frequently dealt with than an irate Orthodox, at least in my assessment.

Joe was very fair. I rarely (if ever) saw a bias from him leaning one way or another.


The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.

I mean, even I, a Roman Catholic who I might add is no less convinced of his praxis was banned as well just for mentioning the old threads.

If I remember correctly, the tone of some of your posts was approaching ad-hominem. I am guessing that you were banned for more than just violating the "don't mention old threads" rule.  However, we will never really know because you were not given a warning or an explanation like so many Orthodox posters who were banned.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #768 on: November 28, 2007, 03:37:15 PM »

The last example that comes to mind is the banning of Diane who was no more rude than anyone else.

Is this the same Diane also known as Dreher's Bane?
Logged
Ziggernaut
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 93


« Reply #769 on: November 28, 2007, 03:43:44 PM »

So now they have a thread with special restrictions because Ms. Grant came up with a totalitarian rule so she could have a peaceful thanksgiving with her family. I am wondering what will become of her when the Holidays are over.

Peace.



More to the point, not that it really affects those of us who've been banned, is how much the totalitarianism, manifested first in the bannings, and then in the above-mentioned rules, will spread to the rest of CAF?  Unfortunately, totalitarianism has a really nasty habit of propagating itself.  And most certainly tolerates no truth or dissent--the very things that destroy it.  Lord have mercy.

Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."  Augustine of Hippo
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #770 on: November 28, 2007, 03:44:36 PM »

I don't know about Dreher's Bahne but are you talking about Diane K. who used to post here as ZoeTheodora and is a devoted disciple of the Pillars of Heterodoxy, namely, Steve Ray, James Likoudis, and Warren Carroll? (this is an inside joke for long time forum members).
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #771 on: November 28, 2007, 03:49:10 PM »

are you talking about Diane K. who used to post here as ZoeTheodora and is a devoted disciple of the Pillars of Heterodoxy, namely, Steve Ray, James Likoudis, and Warren Carroll? (this is an inside joke for long time forum members).

One and the same.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #772 on: November 28, 2007, 03:55:50 PM »

Yeah, that's her. I only know her as Rod Dreher's nemesis (back when I used to read his blog before it got tiresome).
Logged
Ziggernaut
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 93


« Reply #773 on: November 28, 2007, 03:58:29 PM »


Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.



Diane??  Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggh!Yiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiikes!

Just the very mention of her, makes me.........eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!
Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."  Augustine of Hippo
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #774 on: November 28, 2007, 04:03:51 PM »

Joe was very fair. I rarely (if ever) saw a bias from him leaning one way or another.

Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

Quote
Wow!  Are you joking?  In almost three years on that forum, I have never seen a poster who was more bitter toward the Orthodox faith and berating in her discourse.

I agree she was a bit bitter but so were allot of her opposition. I am not defending her style but making the point that she was banned for no less than she recieved while no one else was. Are you wearing rose colored glasses? Your whining about unfair treatment and you may be right but its certainly not about praxis, its about authority and power.

Quote
If I remember correctly, the tone of some of your posts was approaching ad-hominem. I am guessing that you were banned for more than just violating the "don't mention old threads" rule.  However, we will never really know because you were not given a warning or an explanation like so many Orthodox posters who were banned.

The warning was the day before I was banned in the form of a new rule that I misinterpreted, and your right I did approach ad-hominem in tone many times because I am an passionate old curmudgeon and I know it which could have played into it too, who knows. What I was told why I was banned you already mentioned in the same breath as saying we will never really know? Did you think I was guessing? So you see I was aforded an explaination that I then discussed with the Admins there. I was aforded an appeal that was denied which I respect. The appeal was denied because it would have been unfair to make an exception just because I goofed. So I dry my tears and move on. So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.
Logged
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #775 on: November 28, 2007, 04:05:02 PM »

This was diane's incarnation on OCnet:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=369

Diane, if you're reading this, hope you're doing well. Smiley
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #776 on: November 28, 2007, 04:10:37 PM »

More to the point, not that it really affects those of us who've been banned, is how much the totalitarianism, manifested first in the bannings, and then in the above-mentioned rules, will spread to the rest of CAF?  Unfortunately, totalitarianism has a really nasty habit of propagating itself.  And most certainly tolerates no truth or dissent--the very things that destroy it.  Lord have mercy.

Who knows, maybe they should apply the same heavy hand to the other argumentative threads too.  Wink

I don't think it will happen though because the primary mods of the other threads seem much more tolerant as I have seen much worse go on in other places there. Case in point the appologetics or NCR threads.

There is not an equal balance of chastising power across the whole board. Your basically stuck with who your mod is. Some stand for more than others. Ms. Grant makes rules that if you break even once you are immediately banned, no exceptions!
Logged
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #777 on: November 28, 2007, 04:54:50 PM »

Peacemakers?!!
Sort of like that 'religion of peace'...our way or the highway...(or the ax).

This begs the question how far should a peace maker go to keep the peace?

That would be a whole thread in and of itself I would think.

Are you the same Aristokes that is on CARM?
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #778 on: November 28, 2007, 05:02:05 PM »

It is I, the trouble-maker and rabble-rouser of that "other" forum, yes.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #779 on: November 28, 2007, 05:07:01 PM »

I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern

He was Eastern Catholic. Sheesh!


Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

You got that right!

Are you wearing rose colored glasses?

Certainly not.

Your whining about unfair treatment

Whining? There is no whining--it is a fasting time.  Grin

 
So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.

No accusations--only a remembrance of the tone of your posts. The very fact that you feel Diane should not have been banned speaks volumes of your own mindset.

However, let us start anew here my brother. Perhaps our discourse can be constructive.
Logged
Magicsilence
CAF driftwood
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 46

Maronite Catholic


« Reply #780 on: November 28, 2007, 05:12:14 PM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,449



« Reply #781 on: November 28, 2007, 05:15:52 PM »

Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.

I agree she was a bit bitter but so were allot of her opposition. I am not defending her style but making the point that she was banned for no less than she recieved while no one else was. Are you wearing rose colored glasses? Your whining about unfair treatment and you may be right but its certainly not about praxis, its about authority and power.

The warning was the day before I was banned in the form of a new rule that I misinterpreted, and your right I did approach ad-hominem in tone many times because I am an passionate old curmudgeon and I know it which could have played into it too, who knows. What I was told why I was banned you already mentioned in the same breath as saying we will never really know? Did you think I was guessing? So you see I was aforded an explaination that I then discussed with the Admins there. I was aforded an appeal that was denied which I respect. The appeal was denied because it would have been unfair to make an exception just because I goofed. So I dry my tears and move on. So your presumption is incorrect and approaching the same tone you accuse me of.

I'm got the impression of a history that Diane/aka Theoodora Zoe shared with those who knew her (I thought, what a name for an anti-Orthodox. She explained later, on another venue, how she chose it, when she admitted (she evaded Fr. Ambrose on this on ECF) that she was one and the same).  I think that came up to the fore.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Mickey
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 1,309



« Reply #782 on: November 28, 2007, 05:18:19 PM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

Limbo revisited!   Shocked
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,449



« Reply #783 on: November 28, 2007, 05:20:20 PM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

Well, like I say when we are looking for something "do you have it?" "yes, it's here somewhere" "well, if you can't find it then you don't have it."

I'll take your word, but I'll believe it when I see something (I don't think that is in your hands).

Magic, btw, I need a Maronite answer to something I posted elsewhere


do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 05:21:01 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #784 on: November 28, 2007, 05:30:28 PM »

It is I, the trouble-maker and rabble-rouser of that "other" forum, yes.

I knew it.

I go by HourofMercy over there. How have you been? Good I hope.
Logged
Apotheoun
"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostaseis." St. Gregory Palamas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Melkite Catholic
Posts: 1,388


St. John Maximovitch


WWW
« Reply #785 on: November 28, 2007, 05:32:50 PM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.
Google cache still has much of it available, you just have to do searches that are fairly specific.
Logged

"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite
Apotheoun
"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostaseis." St. Gregory Palamas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Melkite Catholic
Posts: 1,388


St. John Maximovitch


WWW
« Reply #786 on: November 28, 2007, 05:34:48 PM »

Well naturally you would think he was very fair to you. I agree he was as fair as he could be and did a great job but I still think he was a bit biased because he was Eastern and this is why he was removed or as it was put "retired" but aren't we all a bit biased so its understandable? Personally I think if he had remained I would still be there too. If it had been the other way around though you may have noticed. Oh wait, I guess you have. Its hard to be inpartial when your focus is narrow.
Are there any Eastern Catholic moderators at the Eastern Catholic forum at CAF?

P.S. -  Joe was very fair, and he should not have been removed as a moderator.
Logged

"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #787 on: November 28, 2007, 05:56:58 PM »

I knew it.

I go by HourofMercy over there. How have you been? Good I hope.

Hey Big Guy! Finally made it here. Good.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #788 on: November 28, 2007, 06:00:22 PM »

He was Eastern Catholic. Sheesh!

Yea, and when I first got there to that thread my bias was traditional Roman and I was easily offended as the majority of my on-line experience was with obstinate anti-catholics so I was highly defensive. I was confronted with a need for charity that I didn't seem to possess. I am human and faulty. Through patience and understanding I think I grew in charity and perhaps that was the whole point as I remain unconvinced to renounce a single doctrine. Though I can now reconcile most of them with the Eastern perspectives. For that understanding I am grateful yet it was a process that now CAF is lacking because its just to hot a topic for them to deal with. Or as they put it they felt Catholics were being confused.

It's not easy to be unbiased is my point. Even for a moderator. We are still going to confront our own convictions that we may favor in lieu of charity.

Quote
You got that right!


Don't I know it too. Between both lungs is the breastplate of middle ground.  Wink

Quote
Certainly not.

Well good.

Quote
Whining? There is no whining--it is a fasting time.  Grin

Would that be fasting or famine? Seems like the entire crop has been burned to me.

Quote
No accusations--only a remembrance of the tone of your posts. The very fact that you feel Diane should not have been banned speaks volumes of your own mindset.


I admit my own disdain when it rears its ugly head. Never have I said I think she shouldn't have been banned. Please don't put those words in my mouth. I don't think I even insinuated such or was I surprised when it happened. In fact I replied to questions about it at the time stating my speculations that were in line with the rules of the forums. For this I was admonished by Joe for doing so because to do so was taboo also. Ms. Grant would have banned me with no questions asked for that offense but Joe didn't. So even with the bias I perceived I think Joe still had more charity.

What I said means that I think others spoke as obtusely as Diane did who were Orthodox and they were not banned to point to the possible bias I observed. That is all and if the bias that I observed was the result of my own biases then at least there was equality because an arrogant Catholic was banned so you have to give them that much.  laugh

Quote
However, let us start anew here my brother. Perhaps our discourse can be constructive.

Of course. I am willing to learn and grow in Charity and the Holy Spirit.  Cheesy


« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 06:23:28 PM by Joab Anias » Logged
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #789 on: November 28, 2007, 06:04:12 PM »

Are there any Eastern Catholic moderators at the Eastern Catholic forum at CAF?

P.S. -  Joe was very fair, and he should not have been removed as a moderator.

We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.
Logged
Magicsilence
CAF driftwood
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 46

Maronite Catholic


« Reply #790 on: November 28, 2007, 06:05:26 PM »

Quote
Well, like I say when we are looking for something "do you have it?" "yes, it's here somewhere" "well, if you can't find it then you don't have it."

I'll take your word, but I'll believe it when I see something (I don't think that is in your hands).

Magic, btw, I need a Maronite answer to something I posted elsewhere


do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.

1) It is not in my hands, but it is definitely still there.

2) Circumcision? Hmm, well, my Dad as a Maronite wanted me circumcised, but my mother convinced him NOT to have it done so that I could decide for myself when I came of age Shocked I'm still... undecided Undecided

I believe in most Arabic countries circumcision is the norm. Since I was not born in my home country, this might be something another Maronite member may be able to elaborate on.

In Jesus Christ,
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 07:30:05 PM by Magicsilence » Logged
Joab Anias
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Rome
Posts: 145


« Reply #791 on: November 28, 2007, 06:16:56 PM »

Hey Big Guy! Finally made it here. Good.

Not like I had much choice.  Lips Sealed  Smiley
Logged
Ziggernaut
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 93


« Reply #792 on: November 28, 2007, 06:51:53 PM »

Limbo revisited!   Shocked

Come on Mickey, I thought the RC's said Limbo doesn't exist.  Ergo, neither does the archive.   Grin Grin
Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."  Augustine of Hippo
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #793 on: November 28, 2007, 07:10:08 PM »

That's what secular media said. Actually, the commission re-affirmed the Catholic teaching that there is no defined Catholic teaching on limbo. It's theological opinion (and not very popular among most contemporary theologians).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 07:10:42 PM by lubeltri » Logged
yeshua
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Syriac-Maronite
Posts: 28


« Reply #794 on: November 28, 2007, 07:15:19 PM »


do Maronites circumcize?

OK, I don't need the answer, I'm just curious.

Yes.

Peace and God Bless.
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #795 on: November 28, 2007, 08:38:48 PM »

Yes.
*
Yeshua,

Congratulations on the great work you continue to do on CAF in defence of the traditions and teachings of the Oriental Christians.

I see that it is now mainly Orientals who are defending their faith there - yourself and Magicsilence. ronyodish, mardukm, and jimmy, also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)  Seems to be very little contribution from the Byzantines?
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #796 on: November 28, 2007, 09:10:00 PM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.
Like I said:
"We haven't burned the Library of Alexandria, we've just encased it in 20 feet of concrete"

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.
"The best course of action" would be freedom of information.
I thought the "Index Auctorum et Librorum Prohibitorum" was abolished ages ago.....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 09:16:09 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
yeshua
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Syriac-Maronite
Posts: 28


« Reply #797 on: November 28, 2007, 09:56:13 PM »

*
Yeshua,

Congratulations on the great work you continue to do on CAF in defence of the traditions and teachings of the Oriental Christians.

I see that it is now mainly Orientals who are defending their faith there - yourself and Magicsilence. ronyodish, mardukm, and jimmy, also HailMary (but she is just so heavily latinised.)  Seems to be very little contribution from the Byzantines?

Abouna,

Thank you so very much. I am, however, still determining if my participation on CAF is permanent. There has been much going on behind the scenes in PM, I do not know if it would be healthy for me to remain. I went to CAF to get input on the Eastern/Oriental Catholic question, I now find myself merely defending that question being asked. We'll see, prayers please.

As for the Byzantines, they seem to be congregating per usual at ByzCath. It's sort of their home, which is understandable, and I believe the unwarranted expulsion of the Orthodox took with them a good junk of the Byzantine Catholics, which is of no surprise. What is left at CAF are those Orientals who don't really have a place to call home, nor the luxury of a group from our patrimonies. It's not the best place to be right now, I believe.

I am so very happy to see familiar names here, however! Thanks for such the warm embrace.

Peace and God Bless, as always!
Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #798 on: November 29, 2007, 02:15:36 AM »

Yeshua,

Just a quick note to help in countering the assertions made by Ghosty and others that the essence/energy distinction cannot be found in the early Church Fathers with any precision.

Here is a quote from Saint Basil the Great who is mid-4th century -and that should be early enough.

“We say that we know the greatness of God, His power, His wisdom, His goodness, His providence over us, and the justness of His judgment, but not His very essence… The energies are diversified, and the essence simple, but we say that we know our God from His energies, but do not undertake to approach near to His essence. His energies come down to us, but His essence remains beyond our reach… So knowledge of the divine essence involves perception of His incomprehensibility, and the object of our worship is not that of which we comprehend the essence, but of which we comprehend that the essence exists.” 
Letter to Amphilochius
Logged
Apotheoun
"Three realities pertain to God: essence, energy, and the triad of divine hypostaseis." St. Gregory Palamas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Melkite Catholic
Posts: 1,388


St. John Maximovitch


WWW
« Reply #799 on: November 29, 2007, 03:15:35 AM »

The distinction between essence (ousia) and energy / power (energeia / dunamis) is also found in Clement of Alexandria in the second century (See Henny Fiska Hagg's book entitled Clement of Alexandria and the Beginnings of Christian Apophaticism).
Logged

"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite
The Iambic Pen
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic - Church of Old Rome
Jurisdiction: Latin Rite
Posts: 123



« Reply #800 on: November 29, 2007, 04:52:25 AM »

I admit I don't get to CAF as much these days, as I'm not on the 'Net as much, so I was very surprised to log on one day and see that there was no Eastern Christianity forum.  I was saddened by this, as I participated in many good discussions there (going back and forth from being pro-Catholic to pro-Orthodox many times... Smiley ).  I'm glad this forum exists, so that such conversations can continue.  I am very thankful to Catholic Answers for helping me discover the Early Church and showing me the flaws in Protestantism.  As such, I'm not going to immediately put them on some sort of "bad list."  I think we should all pray for the moderators and administrators of the forums there.  They believe that the Catholic Church, with its center of earthly authority and unity being in Rome, to be the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.  If they want to run a Catholic forum, rather than a Catholic and Orthodox forum, that is their right.  Still, from the sound of things, matters could have been handled far better.  And yet, I still think charity should be the word of the day.

God bless!
Logged
marlo
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 84


« Reply #801 on: November 29, 2007, 07:17:30 AM »

yes more charity should have been given by the Orthodox on the CAF.
I admit I don't get to CAF as much these days, as I'm not on the 'Net as much, so I was very surprised to log on one day and see that there was no Eastern Christianity forum.  I was saddened by this, as I participated in many good discussions there (going back and forth from being pro-Catholic to pro-Orthodox many times... Smiley ).  I'm glad this forum exists, so that such conversations can continue.  I am very thankful to Catholic Answers for helping me discover the Early Church and showing me the flaws in Protestantism.  As such, I'm not going to immediately put them on some sort of "bad list."  I think we should all pray for the moderators and administrators of the forums there.  They believe that the Catholic Church, with its center of earthly authority and unity being in Rome, to be the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.  If they want to run a Catholic forum, rather than a Catholic and Orthodox forum, that is their right.  Still, from the sound of things, matters could have been handled far better.  And yet, I still think charity should be the word of the day.

God bless!
Logged
paradoxy
Married Hermit
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox
Posts: 97


"Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds."


« Reply #802 on: November 29, 2007, 07:20:47 AM »

We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.

I have heard from him and know for sure. He was 'retired'. PM me for his email - he told me I could share it with anyone who asks, but only via PM.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 08:25:48 AM by paradoxy » Logged

And when He knew for certain
Only drowning men could see Him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"

Leonard Cohen
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #803 on: November 29, 2007, 07:57:29 AM »

We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator.
*
Yes, retired involuntarily!  I have been keeping in touch with sympathetic people in the CAF Administration and can assure you that he was sent a very brief notification of his dismissal, saying in so many words "CAF is moving in a new direction. Thanks and we wish you well for your future."

Let us pray for him and his family.  The EC Forum flourished under his hand.  The new one attracts very little attention and is primarily a chance for Latin Catholics who are poorly versed in Eastern things to suppress the voice of the few Eastern Catholic contributors.
Logged
paradoxy
Married Hermit
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox
Posts: 97


"Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds."


« Reply #804 on: November 29, 2007, 08:41:11 AM »

For those wondering, I can confirm that the old archive has not been destroyed, or lost, or anything else.

As it stands, only access to it has been restricted while the best course of action is decided.

Peace and God Bless!

I'm sure it's not 'destroyed' - can electronic information ever be completely destroyed, anyway? - but we'll never see it again, that's for sure. What do you think will be ultimately decided as 'the best course of action'? Wait until everyone forgets, or is banned? Or make an archive for the new EC board, with (edited) threads dealing only with Eastern Catholicism, while those dealing with Orthodoxy remain 'undestroyed' but with 'restricted access' forever?  Angry

My anger is not directed at you. Euphemistic double-talk used to 'diplomatically' cover up actions of cover-up and on and on and on... upset me. I've lived most of my life under Communism and Milosevic, I know how it works, I recognize it when I see it, and it irks me greatly.
Logged

And when He knew for certain
Only drowning men could see Him
He said "All men will be sailors then
Until the sea shall free them"

Leonard Cohen
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #805 on: November 29, 2007, 08:43:14 AM »

yes more charity should have been given by the Orthodox on the CAF.
Logged
Ziggernaut
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 93


« Reply #806 on: November 29, 2007, 11:18:39 AM »

This begs the question how far should a peace maker go to keep the peace?

That would be a whole thread in and of itself I would think.


Ask, and you shall receive!  Try this: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13611.new.html#new

In peace,
Jeff
Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."  Augustine of Hippo
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #807 on: November 29, 2007, 11:22:17 AM »



Please correct me if I am wrong, but in their "Staff" forum I got the distinct impression that CAF may be having second thoughts about what happened on there and will be reviewing the deleted archives and after reviewing (screening) them will be posting them under a "for view only" forum?

Logged
Ziggernaut
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 93


« Reply #808 on: November 29, 2007, 11:25:22 AM »

That's what secular media said. Actually, the commission re-affirmed the Catholic teaching that there is no defined Catholic teaching on limbo. It's theological opinion (and not very popular among most contemporary theologians).

So, does that mean the missing archive exists as an opinion  Shocked Grin?  Or is it just someone's opinion that it exists  Grin Shocked?
Logged

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if nobody is doing it."  Augustine of Hippo
Heracleides
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Patriarch of Jerusalem
Posts: 390


Kona-Kai


« Reply #809 on: November 29, 2007, 11:36:18 AM »

We don't know for sure that he was removed. All that was given was that he retired as a moderator. He may have quit for all I know, unless anyone has heard from him and knows for sure. I speculate that he still works there but in his technical capacity.

I can confirm Fr. Ambrose's account as it was admitted by someone 'in the know' on one of the now vanished CAF threads that Joe's 'retirement' was in the nature of a forced retirement (i.e. involuntary).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 11:39:55 AM by Heracleides » Logged

"And having found Heracleides there again, we instructed him to proclaim the Gospel of God..."  ~Acts of Barnabas
Tags: Catholic Answers Forum CAF Reunion CAF 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.146 seconds with 72 queries.