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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 273995 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #225 on: November 13, 2007, 11:06:46 AM »

P.S.--God bless Joe Monahan! He moderated the now defunct forum with much wisdom and charity. Joe will always be in my prayers.
Mine too.

I don't know how people can do that kind of thing for very long, here or elsewhere. Seems like it would take the fun out of it.

It's like babysitting sometimes, having to pull the kids apart and make 'em sit in the corner.  Embarrassed

To me, it must be a burnout position. I nearly quit posting altogether a number of times in disgust, and I never had the responsibility of reviewing everybody elses junk...

Peace!
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« Reply #226 on: November 13, 2007, 12:03:50 PM »

I don't know how people can do that kind of thing for very long, here or elsewhere. Seems like it would take the fun out of it.
au contraire. It's fun. You get special jedi powers with which to torment trolls.
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« Reply #227 on: November 13, 2007, 12:11:29 PM »

hello there

i knew something like this would happen, i once told the EO posters on the CAF, that dont entertain conversion procedures asked to them since CAF is a catholic website and a little respect to the website is to be expected. they can use PM instead. However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue.



"However, i was bombarded with hate replies, as though  the EO posters owns the website. A little respect could prevented things. Listening is a great virtue."

Dont you think this is a little strong?  I dont know what you consider hate but the term was used frequently and with gusto over there for seemingly hard facts.  This seems to be the fall back position of those who find themselves in a pickle trying to answer good, to-the-point questions.  Apparently, there was those who had thinned skins and had a great deal of trouble debating issues and the only way to counter our points was to throw the "hate" term at us.


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« Reply #228 on: November 13, 2007, 12:42:45 PM »

I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  Grin

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey

I was just wondering what happened to you! Yes, I recall a few of the comments from some Roman Catholics after your conversion...
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« Reply #229 on: November 13, 2007, 01:09:00 PM »

Dont you think this is a little strong?  I dont know what you consider hate but the term was used frequently and with gusto over there for seemingly hard facts.  This seems to be the fall back position of those who find themselves in a pickle trying to answer good, to-the-point questions.  Apparently, there was those who had thinned skins and had a great deal of trouble debating issues and the only way to counter our points was to throw the "hate" term at us.
Amen. It happened on both "sides," but the one thing that almost made me stop going there was the application of the label "anti-Catholic" to anyone who disagreed with the Catholic posters.

The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Then things like "Orthodox are really just ethnic-ghetto Protestants because they don't have a supreme head" just get winked at.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #230 on: November 13, 2007, 01:33:43 PM »

Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards Cheesy

Peace and God Bless!
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« Reply #231 on: November 13, 2007, 01:38:08 PM »

I also (I am sure you remember  Wink ) made the final decision to convert while posting as a Ruthenian on CAF and ByzCath.

Michael, my beloved brother,

It seems like a decade ago that you PM'ed me on ByzCath and told me that you had reached that decision and I was one of the first to know. (If memory serves, Bill/ Ghazar had made his decision to go from Armenian Catholicism to Armenian Orthodoxy not long before.) I don't even remember that we were yet also at CAF (or that it even existed) back then - ah, just realized that you're talking about when you were finally received into Holy Orthodoxy - old age slows putting 2 and 2 together  Embarrassed

It is, as always, a pleasure to post with you, my friend. (With all due respect to our hosts here) it's a poor substitute for chatting in person, but it will have to suffice until I finally get an opportunity to visit Chicago and lunch with you, Al, and whomever else we can scare up  Grin

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #232 on: November 13, 2007, 01:44:04 PM »

Amen. It happened on both "sides," but the one thing that almost made me stop going there was the application of the label "anti-Catholic" to anyone who disagreed with the Catholic posters.

The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Then things like "Orthodox are really just ethnic-ghetto Protestants because they don't have a supreme head" just get winked at.  Roll Eyes

wynd,

Were those comments posted on Joe's watch, in the aftermath, or in the days prior to the creation of a distinct Eastern sub-forum? They have the ring of the early days there - about which Father Ambrose and I have, several times, reminisced in PM, wondering how anyone from the East survived.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #233 on: November 13, 2007, 02:02:01 PM »

...The RCC left the Church and should return to its Orthodox roots? Anti-Catholic.
The pope was never a supreme ruler? Anti-Catholic.
The Filioque is not an acceptable addition to the Creed? Anti-Catholic.
No comment on the validity of Catholic sacraments? Anti-Catholic.

Precondition for a meaningfull debate is possibility of each "bloc" to present their stance and the reasoning of it. CAF did have that. And there was enough educated and knowleadgable of each "bloc" to offer reasonings. And there used to be more than just two opposing sides - at least two "flavors" of RCC, plus EC, plus usually more than one "flavor" of us, so called EO.
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« Reply #234 on: November 13, 2007, 02:28:30 PM »

wynd,

Were those comments posted on Joe's watch, in the aftermath, or in the days prior to the creation of a distinct Eastern sub-forum? They have the ring of the early days there - about which Father Ambrose and I have, several times, reminisced in PM, wondering how anyone from the East survived.

Many years,

Neil
I came to CAF in summer 2005, so I wasn't around before the EC forum was made. The particular comments and two users I have in mind are from this past summer (this sentiment popped up every now and then, but these two were really angry and insistent). Neither was banned, although I believe both were briefly suspended.
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« Reply #235 on: November 13, 2007, 02:38:29 PM »

I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.
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« Reply #236 on: November 13, 2007, 02:57:22 PM »

Care to point out some threads over there for our review?
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« Reply #237 on: November 13, 2007, 02:59:16 PM »

I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.
Those who announced their conversion did so out of great joy and peace. I assure you that it was not done to "rub it in your face".  When the moderator (Joe) asked that the converts communicate privately, it stopped.
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« Reply #238 on: November 13, 2007, 03:46:23 PM »

I was just wondering if it would be acceptable if Eastern Orthodox  converts to Catholicism started setting up threads here celebrating their new found communion with Rome? The opposite was happening at the CAF.

Ask the moderator. It should make for some interesting dialogue.

JoeS
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« Reply #239 on: November 13, 2007, 04:56:28 PM »

I believe that C Answers found themselves in a quandary. I cannot help but to see myself as an example. Born and raised Roman Catholic, I canonically switched to the Ruthenian Catholic Church after 35 + years. As a Byzantine Catholic, I was exposed to everything Orthodox. When I found C Answers, I was a staunch defender of Rome and I debated rigorously with the Orthodox members in defence of communion with Rome. At times I had some monumental battles--hi Bob!  Grin

But as I studied the faith, I slowly came to learn that my arguments were not holding as much water as I had anticipated. After much study, prayer, and discernment I came home to Holy Orthodoxy.  Suddenly, I found myself shoulder to shoulder with the same people that I vigorously opposed. The Roman Catholics were not pleased.  I received some disconcerting private messages.

In short, I discovered that you cannot oppose the truth. Holy Orthodoxy effortlessly answers all Roman Catholic objections. The cause of my conversion was not the Orthodox posters at Catholic Answers. It was the Holy Spirit revealing the truth to my heart.  Ironically, I believe that more people may consider Holy Orthodoxy after they witness the oppressive measures that were taken by the moderators.

I learned much from my years on that forum. I thank all of my Orthodox and Eastern Catholic brethren for the wonderful information they contributed. And I ask forgiveness for all I may have offended.

Special thanks to Arsenios and others who posted the information about the movie "Ostrov".  I weep every time I watch it. This movie truly conveys the essence of Holy Orthodoxy!

Peace and blessings to all!

Mickey

Glad to see you here. Grin

I happened on the forum as you were just being received.

Just before the ax fell, someone resecitated an old thread, and I saw your postings then.  I had to check the profile to make sure it was the same person, especially the posting "I will never leave Rome."

I don't know if magisterium at CAF were checking PMs, because myself and those more worthy received messages from people (and I've already received some here), that they attributed a part of their journey home to reading posts.  Myself, I was just spouting off in defense of the Faith as I received (I used to burn icons, so I have a lot to make up for).  Needless to say, that might have played a role in the interdict.

So, having come home, I hope our former hosts, now guests, will feel at home here.  I'd miss the debate and dialogue otherwise.
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« Reply #240 on: November 13, 2007, 05:03:03 PM »

Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards Cheesy

Peace and God Bless!

Magic!  I apologize, I had failed to mention you among our Syriac Fathers!  I need more coffee.

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.

I hope Joe is in better hands.

I've emailed Fr. Ambrose through CAF, I hope he got it.  I'd hate a delayed parousia. Sad
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« Reply #241 on: November 13, 2007, 05:05:41 PM »

Michael, my beloved brother,

It seems like a decade ago that you PM'ed me on ByzCath and told me that you had reached that decision and I was one of the first to know. (If memory serves, Bill/ Ghazar had made his decision to go from Armenian Catholicism to Armenian Orthodoxy not long before.) I don't even remember that we were yet also at CAF (or that it even existed) back then - ah, just realized that you're talking about when you were finally received into Holy Orthodoxy - old age slows putting 2 and 2 together  Embarrassed

It is, as always, a pleasure to post with you, my friend. (With all due respect to our hosts here) it's a poor substitute for chatting in person, but it will have to suffice until I finally get an opportunity to visit Chicago and lunch with you, Al, and whomever else we can scare up  Grin

Many years,

Neil

Are we congregated in Chicago?  I seemed to notice a number of posters from here (and Australia/New Zealand).
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« Reply #242 on: November 13, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »

Those who announced their conversion did so out of great joy and peace. I assure you that it was not done to "rub it in your face".  When the moderator (Joe) asked that the converts communicate privately, it stopped.

The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.
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« Reply #243 on: November 13, 2007, 05:27:16 PM »

The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.
Well, one thing is for sure---Catholic Answers agrees with you.  Undecided
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« Reply #244 on: November 13, 2007, 05:32:24 PM »

My husband and I were intending to donate to CA. I am now quite glad that we didn't. Now this lovely site will get what little financial support we can give Grin

I was sad when the EC site was changed. But then I thought that at least I could read the archives. But now I can't even do THAT anymore. Taking the archives away just seems mean spirited.
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« Reply #245 on: November 13, 2007, 05:34:31 PM »

Quote
There was another one from Steubenville, a Chaldean whose name began with an "R," who also made valuable contributions.  Is he still around too?
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Ronyodish? I can't think of any others who fit that description. Aside from very recently I haven't seen him around in a while.

I've just signed up.

God bless,

Rony
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« Reply #246 on: November 13, 2007, 06:03:05 PM »

Hello,

Thanks to JMJ for the heads up about this forum.

I think in reality, nothing much has really changed over the last few months on CAF, except that a few notably bad posters came along and drew attention to the Eastern Christianity forum where once it lay in relative obscurity.

I suppose it was inevitable really, and with Joe gone, and most posters moving over here, there isn't really much incentive to remain at CAF.

Fr Ambrose will be sorely missed if he doesn't hop over to these new boards Cheesy

Peace and God Bless!
Welcome to the reunion.
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« Reply #247 on: November 13, 2007, 06:05:56 PM »

Hello,

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.
I remember that. You linked an article for me to read, and I put it on my growing to read list. I sure hope I bookmarked it.
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« Reply #248 on: November 13, 2007, 06:06:22 PM »

I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.
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« Reply #249 on: November 13, 2007, 06:15:08 PM »

I've just signed up.

God bless,

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« Reply #250 on: November 13, 2007, 06:16:39 PM »

I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

Don't hold your breath. I just saw the announcement of his replacement, and your post.

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« Reply #251 on: November 13, 2007, 06:21:23 PM »

Hello,

They have just announced a new moderator for the new Eastern Catholicism forum. Joe is in retirement, according to his profile. So is Marian Carroll, who I believe also helped moderate the old EC forum.

Of course, the truth is the Illuminati really have them locked up in the Vatican basement.  Grin
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« Reply #252 on: November 13, 2007, 07:32:16 PM »

The fact that it was allowed on a Catholic forum in the first place was completely unacceptable.

On the face of it, I would agree. We would not allow that on our Convert board, but do allow debate on the Orthodox-Catholic board. I assume the mission of CAF was to taut Roman Catholicism and to proselytize anyone non-RC, including the Orthodox. I also assume there were conversions to the RC there and they so stated that in the ECF. Or no?
If not, then the CAF failed and cut their losses.
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« Reply #253 on: November 13, 2007, 08:14:14 PM »

I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

They still carry his name on the moderator list but it isnt in bold or color highlighted. So, I have to presume he is still involved even in a minimal way.

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« Reply #254 on: November 13, 2007, 08:16:17 PM »

Hello,

They have just announced a new moderator for the new Eastern Catholicism forum. Joe is in retirement, according to his profile. So is Marian Carroll, who I believe also helped moderate the old EC forum.

Of course, the truth is the Illuminati really have them locked up in the Vatican basement.  Grin

You know, I half way believe you.

JoeS Cool
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« Reply #255 on: November 13, 2007, 08:32:22 PM »

how many years did it take to make that many posts?
that's alot!

I think Fr Ambrose took at least 3 years (maybe less!) to reach 18,997 posts. I'm not sure if I remember him from the pre-Eastern-Christianity-Forum days, but he sure burned the servers from his Hobbit-Home in Middle Earth. Grin
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 08:33:04 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #256 on: November 13, 2007, 08:49:54 PM »

Magic!  I apologize, I had failed to mention you among our Syriac Fathers!  I need more coffee.

Yes, thanks JMJ a/k/a Athanasios.  Btw our discussion on the Pentapolis (and I believe we had one on the language of First Century Rome) are among the postings I regret have entered limbo.

I hope Joe is in better hands.

I've emailed Fr. Ambrose through CAF, I hope he got it.  I'd hate a delayed parousia. Sad

Syriac father! Great Smiley Better late than never!

Fr. Ambrose did respond to one of my emails from CAF, but not my reply to his reply. I hope he is still ok!

Peace and God Bless!
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« Reply #257 on: November 13, 2007, 08:58:23 PM »

I just asked what's with Joe Monahan at CAF. I hope they don't take it as a provocation and just answer.

Just got the "answer"--He's retired. Period. Lips Sealed

Hey! Look! I'm a Jr. Member! Yeah!!! Soon I'll have 18,000 posts like Fr. A! Wink
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 09:00:27 PM by Alexius » Logged

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« Reply #258 on: November 13, 2007, 09:00:04 PM »

Invite him here.
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« Reply #259 on: November 13, 2007, 09:09:15 PM »

Just got the "answer"--He's retired. Period. Lips Sealed
Is that "he's retired" or "he has been "retired""?

Invite him here.
Good idea!
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« Reply #260 on: November 13, 2007, 09:13:40 PM »

Hello,

Hey! Look! I'm a Jr. Member! Yeah!!! Soon I'll have 18,000 posts like Fr. A! Wink
You better get a move on it. As soon as Father Ambrose starts posting here, all bets are off.  Grin
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« Reply #261 on: November 13, 2007, 10:16:02 PM »

I got this rather strange email just now. I have also printed my reply below:


Dear Mark,
     As an RC priest who for some time has been looking wistfully
Eastwards I would very much like to view some of those pieces wherein
Orthodox defenders of the Faith apparently caused these RC crusaders to
throw down their shields and flee the field of battle. About twenty
years ago I had a somewhat similar experience with their leader both by
mail and in person where I found this individual does not like questions
that go beyond the usual questions asked him by quasi-illiterate
fundamentalists. Also, he has for the last seven or eight years on his
staff, a most intelligent and well-read individual who I suspect does
quite a bit of writing for his publication, but because of the fact that
as a con-man he has hurt so many people here in the Carolinas as well as
in California (and I suspect elsewhere) that he does not dare use his
own name. Were the articles dealing with Orthodoxy signed?
     I would very much appreciate if you could xerox all pages of this
forum that you have. I do not have a computer and WebTV is limited in
what it is able to reproduce. So you could help this priest who is very
close to entering Orthodoxy by mailing me whatever material from that
forum that you have. I will of course send you a check for whatever it
costs you.
     Thank you and God bless,
      Name deleted at present, pending future decision
(((( I have deleted the snail mail address)))))
-----------------------------------------------------------
Father,

Not only did they drop the 'Eastern Forum but they banned for life many of the regular Orthodox posters and they took off the archieve the many years of discussions from that forum. The long time RC moderator of the Board has suddenly "retired"... It was a real live rootin tooten Monday Night Massacre...Shame on them !

I would suggest that you go over to OrthodoxCrhistianity.net   http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php   

There is a  thread there where most all of the Orthodox folks from old forum have gone to discuss what happened and to make that site their new home. A few of the RCC folks are beginning to migrate over as well to continue talking about the issues. One guys said he felt like he is in a displaced persons camp Smiley

  Some folks had saved a few of the threads on their computers so you can ask to read what is available. There are some really excellent Orthodox posters there that can be of service to you and answer your questions I am sure.

Marc

I have temporarily deleted the name of the author of this e-mail until it can be shown that the e-mail's author has given permission to have his identity disclosed on the Internet.

This post will be returned to its orginakl state once this proof has been disclosed.

+Fr Chris




« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 10:42:22 PM by FrChris » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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« Reply #262 on: November 13, 2007, 10:25:10 PM »

You got this 'unsolicited?
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« Reply #263 on: November 13, 2007, 10:30:56 PM »

It's a lamentable state of affairs when extreme measures are taken to purge vigorous dialogue, moderators are "retired" under mysterious circumstances and an entire forum replete with great bits of information is whisked away to cyber-purgatory, it seems, for more 'purification'. After limiting my participation there I lurked around frequently, content to merely observe some enjoyable discussions from the sidelines. I think I can say that great majority of Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic participants did much to build bridges and foster friendship and understanding, and part of this process involved challenging and defending our respective doctrines or positions. I'd have to say that the emergence (or rather re-emergence) of certain provocative and antagonistic posters in the last few weeks of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum accelerated matters to where they are now.

I greatly appreciate the presence of our Roman/Eastern Catholic brethren from the CA forum. There's a great deal that unites us, and I extend my warmest wishes in Christ to you all. Let's continue the dialogue.

 
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 01:08:27 AM by Papa Gregorio » Logged
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« Reply #264 on: November 13, 2007, 10:38:54 PM »

He might be here already (under another name, ya' never know).  Wink


My post above there got me permanently banned. Unbelievable, but no big loss. Oh, entire thread disappeared as well.


Welcome, Jimmy.  Smiley


P.S.: Pittsburgher?
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« Reply #265 on: November 13, 2007, 10:43:26 PM »

It's a lamentable state of affairs when measures are taken to purge vigorous dialogue, moderators are "retired" under mysterious circumstances and an entire forum replete with great bits of information is whisked away to cyber-purgatory, it seems, for more 'purification'. After limiting my participation there I lurked around frequently, content to merely observe some enjoyable discussions from the sidelines. I think I can say that great majority of Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Roman Catholic participants did much to build bridges and foster friendship and understanding, and part of this process involved challenging and defending our respective doctrines or positions. I'd have to say that the emergence (or rather re-emergence) of certain provocative and antagonistic posters in the last few weeks of the now defunct Eastern Christianity forum accelerated matters to where they are now.

I greatly appreciate the presence of our Roman/Eastern Catholic brethren from the CA forum. There's a great deal that unites us, and I extend my warmest wishes in Christ to you all. Let's continue the dialogue.

 

Welcome! It's like the CA Forum all over again, except without those sacred threads (may they rest in peace Wink laugh)!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 10:44:34 PM by Alexius » Logged

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« Reply #266 on: November 13, 2007, 11:08:10 PM »

The only thing I can think of as specifying me as a pittsburgher is the icon in my picture of St. Nimatullah.  The icon is from my church.  Other than that I can't think of anything.
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« Reply #267 on: November 13, 2007, 11:27:34 PM »

Quote
ܫܠܡܐ ܠ

Bshayna  Smiley

I'm not sure how to add to this forum the Syriac script.  How did you import it to this forum?

God bless,

Rony
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« Reply #268 on: November 13, 2007, 11:37:39 PM »

Dear new members,
Once again, a hearty welcome to you all!
One point I should like to make though, is that while this thread discusses the current situation you have all found yourselves in, you really shouldn't limit yourselves to it. For example, some people are asking technical questions about how OCnet works in this thread, but their question may not be seen here, or the answer will be lost as this thread continues to grow. Such questions should be asked in the "technical issues" forum.
I think it's a good idea if you guys also explore the rest of the forum to see the best place for your posts. They may not be seen if you just limit yourselves to this thread.
Once again, welcome to all of you!

George
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« Reply #269 on: November 13, 2007, 11:51:24 PM »

The only thing I can think of as specifying me as a pittsburgher is the icon in my picture of St. Nimatullah.  The icon is from my church.  Other than that I can't think of anything.

Sorry Jimmy. My apologies. I sort of misused my moderator magic. Won't happen again. But I do like to keep our SW PA contingent growing.
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