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Author Topic: catholic answers forum bars orthodox dicussion  (Read 270145 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #1305 on: April 14, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

Papist

As far as we can tell [ and I'm sure I'm speaking for all the Banned EC , EO  ex-members of CAF  ] it was only YOU who has complained about unfair moderation .

I suppose it really does depend on what you call 'unfair'
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« Reply #1306 on: April 14, 2008, 05:13:16 PM »

Haven't been over here for a few weeks because of some demands on my time and haven't read CAF much of late - the latter because, as several of my friends have noted, it is so incredibly depressing - particularly the EC forum. However, I did stop and skim it a few days ago and it's gotten so much worse that it's scary. You've got folks over there presenting themselves as "expert" and who have no idea what they are talking about.

Today I was reading that "welcoming", safe place for "Catholics" to discuss their "Catholicism" without the interference of those not of the "Catholic" faith, and came upon this beaut:

Quote from: CAF
All I can say about Fr Deacon's comment is that it confirms a suspicion I had that certain Eastern Rite clerics hide behind their culture as an excuse for all sorts of strange activities and beliefs.

This was in response to Fr. Deacon Lance telling a meddling Latin visitor to a Middle Eastern, Eastern Catholic (Maronite?) parish whgo declared his intent to inform the parishioners that having traditional belly dancing at a parish ethnic festival was inappropriate / sinful, to basically "mind his own business" until he was an actual part of the community and was somewhat familiar with their culture.

I don't have a horse in this race, per se, as I never posted at CAF, but being a lately-horrified longtime reader this latest anti-East salvo about takes the cake. I wonder what other culturally-sanctioned "strange activities" the poster is implying that "Eastern Rite" people engage in.

Latin Catholics who are innocently ignorant of the East are one thing, and can be gently educated for their edification, but it seems that there are plenty of other Latins out there who are just blatantly and aggressively anti-Eastern. What about us threatens them so much that they begin their "dialogue" with hysterics?
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« Reply #1307 on: April 14, 2008, 10:03:25 PM »

Quote from: CAF
All I can say about Fr Deacon's comment is that it confirms a suspicion I had that certain Eastern Rite clerics hide behind their culture as an excuse for all sorts of strange activities and beliefs.
This was in response to Fr. Deacon Lance telling a meddling Latin visitor to a Middle Eastern, Eastern Catholic (Maronite?) parish whgo declared his intent to inform the parishioners that having traditional belly dancing at a parish ethnic festival was inappropriate / sinful, to basically "mind his own business" until he was an actual part of the community and was somewhat familiar with their culture.
I suppose there'd be no problem if they would all just "Riverdance".   LOL Cheesy
I repeat:
I wonder just how much of this debate is a result of ethnocentrism and cultural chauvinism?
My guess is that it is the majority....
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 10:06:11 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #1308 on: April 14, 2008, 11:01:08 PM »

I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time I have complained about moderation is when it was objectively unfair. So, although you think you are clever, you are sadly mistaken.
Papist, I think your recent history here speaks differently.


Uh, I think I asked you only for a correction of my restatement of the text of the Immaculate Conception dogma articulated by Pope Pius IX in 1854.  I didn't ask for a complete RC spiel on how the Immaculate Conception is consistent with the [RC view of the] Gospel of Jesus Christ, particularly because that isn't what the OP requested on this, the [Orthodox] Faith Issues board.
All I did was correct your misunderstanding. It took some explaining to so but for you to accuse me of more than correction is just silly. Don't start problems where there are none. I think that is called "trolling".

If anyone has contact with Joe Monahan or has his email, could they please pm me? PLEASE DO NOT POST EMAIL ADDRESSES IN THE FORUM.
I would like to get in touch with Joe ASAP, so if you have contact with him, pm me and I will give you my email to pass it on to him.

The poster known here as "Papist", and known on CAF as "East and West" has made the following post on another thread:

And I think "Papist"/"East and West" should be held responsible for what he says in public forums.

Thanks,
George
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Its interesting that no one here acccused George of trolling, or at least baiting, for this post. But hey, double standards are the medium in which eveyone works here, i guess.


The next two examples follow immediately after a public warning you received for insulting your Orthodox hosts. (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15287.msg217977.html#msg217977)

You're not as cute as you think you are.
Just because you have nothing intelligent to say, does not mean that you can just resort to you usual "tactic" of insulting the Orthodox Christian Faith.
This is just rude, ignorant trolling- and I am offended by your words.
So why don't you just go and desecrate the Blessed Sacrament by receiving Communion after you have once again insulted people on a public forum and just leave us alone?

Goodness. It appears that you people can call us heretics, schismatics, etc. But the second some one calls you out on something, everyone's feelings get hurt. Ridiculous.
BTW, I would not be "desecrating the Blessed Sacrament" because I have committed no sin here. I simply called an apple an apple.

I think this a highly uncalled for statement and very very rude, Papist. 
I have heard you guys yourselves glory in the fact that you have no problem with contradictions because you believe in mystery. So where then is the insult?
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« Reply #1309 on: April 14, 2008, 11:43:23 PM »

I suppose it really does depend on what you call 'unfair'
I think you're onto something here.  To Papist, unfair means he's the one being moderated. Wink
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« Reply #1310 on: April 15, 2008, 12:29:51 AM »

Today I was reading that "welcoming", safe place for "Catholics" to discuss their "Catholicism" without the interference of those not of the "Catholic" faith, and came upon this beaut:

This was in response to Fr. Deacon Lance telling a meddling Latin visitor to a Middle Eastern, Eastern Catholic (Maronite?) parish whgo declared his intent to inform the parishioners that having traditional belly dancing at a parish ethnic festival was inappropriate / sinful, to basically "mind his own business" until he was an actual part of the community and was somewhat familiar with their culture.

I don't have a horse in this race, per se, as I never posted at CAF, but being a lately-horrified longtime reader this latest anti-East salvo about takes the cake. I wonder what other culturally-sanctioned "strange activities" the poster is implying that "Eastern Rite" people engage in.

Latin Catholics who are innocently ignorant of the East are one thing, and can be gently educated for their edification, but it seems that there are plenty of other Latins out there who are just blatantly and aggressively anti-Eastern. What about us threatens them so much that they begin their "dialogue" with hysterics?

Next they'll be in our selo telling us it is heretical to eat pyrohy and halushki after Liturgy.
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« Reply #1311 on: April 15, 2008, 08:59:14 AM »

George and anyone else who's been in touch with Joe,

Any word about what he's doing these days, and/or whether he has any thought of starting a new forum (or blog, for that matter)?

-Peter.
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« Reply #1312 on: April 15, 2008, 09:25:17 AM »

Interesting you should mention this.  You complain about how a former CAF moderator "allowed" Eastern Catholic and Orthodox posters too much freedom to preach, without Latin correctives, their "heretical" Eastern faith on a CATHOLIC forum, yet you come to our ORTHODOX forum to preach a Latin faith we find just as heretical.  Not only that, you complain when you're moderated the way you think Joe should have moderated the EC/EO on his forum.  Can't stand the taste of your own medicine, can you?  I shouldn't be surprised, since double standards are the medium in which you work here, I guess.

The problem on CAF wasn't that the Orthodox were "heretical" but rather that they were persuasive.

The problem here currently is aggressiveness. The same would occasionally happen on CAF but Joe did not shrink from taking action what that happend there.
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« Reply #1313 on: April 15, 2008, 10:16:34 AM »

Any word about what he's doing these days, and/or whether he has any thought of starting a new forum (or blog, for that matter)?
Joe will speak for himself when and if he wishes to.

The problem on CAF wasn't that the Orthodox were "heretical" but rather that they were persuasive.
I'd agree. But if I were to look at it from a moderators point of view, I would never have allowed an "Eastern Christian" forum in the first place. We Orthodox have a much clearer ecclesiology- for us, the visible boundaries of the Church are the visible boundaries of the Orthodox Church. The Catholics tend to buy the "breathing with two lungs" nonsense, and while I do not doubt they were well intentioned, they didn't realize what they were in for by iopening the forum to the Orthodox. You just can't argue with Orthodoxy.

The problem here currently is aggressiveness. The same would occasionally happen on CAF but Joe did not shrink from taking action what that happend there.
I agree. But I also think he is a blessing. Papist is the true face of Latin Catholic chauvenism and is an embarassment to the Catholics- a thorn in their side if you will. My advice is to simply ignore him and let him embarass Catholicism even more.
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« Reply #1314 on: April 15, 2008, 11:21:35 AM »

The problem on CAF wasn't that the Orthodox were "heretical" but rather that they were persuasive.
You might be on to something there.
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« Reply #1315 on: April 15, 2008, 12:08:19 PM »

Joe will speak for himself when and if he wishes to.

Sorry, I forgot about your exclusivity with him. Wink My bad.
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« Reply #1316 on: April 15, 2008, 01:53:56 PM »

Cool off, people.  We're getting close to Pascha, which means temptation is intensifying.  I'm leaving the thread locked for about a day or so, and then I'm unlocking it. - Cleveland, Global Moderator


Addendum: I'm unlocking the thread.  Please remember that we're in a period where we should be preparing for the Triumphal Entry of the Lord, His betrayal into the hands of sinful men, His Mystical Supper, Voluntary Arrest, Passion, Death, and Glorious Resurrection.  The arguments and sqabbles of mere humanity should not distract us from our focus on the True Man, the One who was Human to its fullest and most perfect extent.  Thank you all for understanding.   

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« Reply #1317 on: April 16, 2008, 07:28:38 AM »

I've split off the extended discussion on Trolling behavior and whatnot.  It can be found here:

"To Troll or not To Troll, that is the question.  Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous Posters, or..."
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15541.0.html
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« Reply #1318 on: April 16, 2008, 07:39:09 AM »

Please remember that we're in a period where we should be preparing for the Triumphal Entry of the Lord, His betrayal into the hands of sinful men, His Mystical Supper, Voluntary Arrest, Passion, Death, and Glorious Resurrection.  The arguments and sqabbles of mere humanity should not distract us from our focus on the True Man, the One who was Human to its fullest and most perfect extent.  Thank you all for understanding.   

Well said!  Smiley
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« Reply #1319 on: April 18, 2008, 12:03:07 PM »

CAf Alert!

See the thread "Papal Problems...Continued"  In the Non-Catholic section.

Start at message 105.

Mickey and ForeverAdam, thank for your messages answering East and West.
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« Reply #1320 on: April 18, 2008, 12:36:24 PM »

Disgusting. What a coward. Attack someone who can't respond.
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« Reply #1321 on: April 18, 2008, 12:53:35 PM »

Disgusting. What a coward. Attack someone who can't respond.

Indeed, East & West, aka Papist's attack on Fr. Ambrose is despicable.  Congrats Papist - you will make a fine Dominican... oh wait, they may have played a lead role in your church's Inquisition, but are now so liberal and touchy-feelie I am confident the Dominicans will toss you out on your ear once your ultramontanist nature comes to the fore. We will all shed a tear when that happens.  Cry
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« Reply #1322 on: April 18, 2008, 12:54:18 PM »

The interenet is a public forum where we can, legitimatley criticize those who make themselves public figures.
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« Reply #1323 on: April 18, 2008, 12:54:51 PM »

Indeed, East & West, aka Papist's attack on Fr. Ambrose is despicable.  Congrats Papist - you will make a fine Dominican... oh wait, they may have played a lead role in your church's Inquisition, but are now so liberal and touchy-feelie I am confident the Dominicans will toss you out on your ear once your ultramontanist nature comes to the fore. We will all shed a tear when that happens.  Cry
Thanks for the encouragement. I am glad to see that a good Christian like yourself would be so happy to see me fail in my vocation. Way to represent your Church.
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« Reply #1324 on: April 18, 2008, 01:01:30 PM »

Disgusting. What a coward. Attack someone who can't respond.
Lame
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« Reply #1325 on: April 18, 2008, 01:02:05 PM »

Indeed, East & West, aka Papist's attack on Fr. Ambrose is despicable.  Congrats Papist - you will make a fine Dominican...
Let's not be harsh on Christopher (Papist).   We've all seen quite anti-Orthodox people such as he have an On-the-road-to-Damascus experience and come into the Church.  He could even be struggling with it right now and not handling it very well.

God bless you, Christopher.

Just to quote Saint Philo of Alexandria...

"Be very kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
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« Reply #1326 on: April 18, 2008, 01:03:56 PM »

Let's not be harsh on Christopher (Papist).   We've all seen quite anti-Orthodox people such as he have an On-the-road-to-Damascus experience and come into the Church.  He could even be struggling with it right now and not handling it very well.

God bless you, Christopher.

Just to quote Saint Philo of Alexandria...

"Be very kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
Very Slick Fr. Ambrose.
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« Reply #1327 on: April 18, 2008, 01:04:25 PM »

Let's not be harsh on Christopher (Papist).   We've all seen quite anti-Orthodox people such as he have an On-the-road-to-Damascus experience and come into the Church.  He could even be struggling with it right now and not handling it very well.

God bless you, Christopher.

Just to quote Saint Philo of Alexandria...

"Be very kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."

Wise words, Father.  Thank you.  And thank you also for the quote above... I always wondered who said that.  Smiley

-Edited for spelling... now I'll have to get out YtterbiumAnalyst's Official English Major Apology.
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« Reply #1328 on: April 18, 2008, 01:06:35 PM »

Let's not be harsh on Christopher (Papist).   We've all seen quite anti-Orthodox people such as he have an On-the-road-to-Damascus experience and come into the Church.  He could even be struggling with it right now and not handling it very well.

God bless you, Christopher.

Just to quote Saint Philo of Alexandria...

"Be very kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."

You are a better man than I am Father. Thank you for your example of forgiveness.
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« Reply #1329 on: April 18, 2008, 01:13:51 PM »

Very Slick Fr. Ambrose.
*
I truly believe that Christ who said "And I, if I be lifted up on the cross, I shall draw all men unto myself" does in reality call all mankind into the Church - and that does not exclude you.  I know that the thought may horrify you right now.... but the ways of the Lord are inscrutable and one day you could find yourself kneeling in an Orthodox church and weeping... "Lord forgive me... why have I fought you over this for so long...."
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« Reply #1330 on: April 18, 2008, 01:25:22 PM »

*
I truly believe that Christ who said "And I, if I be lifted up on the cross, I shall draw all men unto myself" does in reality call all mankind into the Church - and that does not exclude you.  I know that the thought may horrify you right now.... but the ways of the Lord are inscrutable and one day you could find yourself kneeling in an Orthodox church and weeping... "Lord forgive me... why have I fought you over this for so long...."
Father, I think the same applies to you. The Lord does want you in the Catholic Church (and by that I mean what most of you call the Roman Catholic Church) because it is his Church. Some day you may return to whence you came and find that you have come home. However, that does not change the fact that the manner in which you approached apologetics at the CAF was in no way ok. Furthermore, it breaks my heart that some one as intelligent as you would use your gift to tear people away from the Ark of Salvation. Remember: "To whom much is given, much is expected."
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« Reply #1331 on: April 18, 2008, 02:07:43 PM »

I truly believe that Christ who said "And I, if I be lifted up on the cross, I shall draw all men unto myself" does in reality call all mankind into the Church - and that does not exclude you.  I know that the thought may horrify you right now.... but the ways of the Lord are inscrutable and one day you could find yourself kneeling in an Orthodox church and weeping... "Lord forgive me... why have I fought you over this for so long...."
There was a time, (when I was in communion with Rome), that I was not unlike papist in my approach to apologetics. I often became angry and I had monumental battles with many Orthodox posters--especially orthodoc (Bob). I was suffering through an inner turmoil. I was beginning to see things through a different lens. There was a purity of truth to the Orthodox position that became increasingly more difficult to deny. To quote a cliche: "the truth hurt".

I am not an imbecilic naive man. It was not Fr Ambrose and /or other Orthodox posters at CAF who brain washed me into the Holy Orthodox Church. It was the truth that compelled me to go to the loving embrace of Holy Orthodoxy.

It was the Holy Spirit.

Metanoia can be a painful experience.

Peace and blessings to everyone!
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« Reply #1332 on: April 18, 2008, 02:14:42 PM »

There was a time, (when I was in communion with Rome), that I was not unlike papist in my approach to apologetics. I often became angry and I had monumental battles with many Orthodox posters--especially orthodoc (Bob). I was suffering through an inner turmoil.
Interesting. I can assure you that I am not suffering any inner turmoil. I had a year long experience with Eastern Catholicism and I discovered that the East is simply wrong. I have never been more certain of this.
I was beginning to see things through a different lens. There was a purity of truth to the Orthodox position that became increasingly more difficult to deny. To quote a cliche: "the truth hurt".
I simply don't see what you do. Thers is too much truth in the Latin Church.
I am not an imbecilic naive man. It was not Fr Ambrose and /or other Orthodox posters at CAF who brain washed me into the Holy Orthodox Church. It was the truth that compelled me to go to the loving embrace of Holy Orthodoxy.

It was the Holy Spirit.

Metanoia can be a painful experience.

Peace and blessings to everyone!
You seemed to admitt over at CAF that Fr. Ambrose was one of the factors that contributed to your downfall, althought you didn't call it that.
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« Reply #1333 on: April 18, 2008, 02:17:42 PM »

^ Still 'winning friends and influencing people' - the wrong way
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« Reply #1334 on: April 18, 2008, 02:18:09 PM »

^ Still 'winning friends and influencing people' - the wrong way
I am not really on line to make friends. I prefer to make friends that I can interact with in the real world.
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« Reply #1335 on: April 18, 2008, 02:24:29 PM »

I often became angry and I had monumental battles with many Orthodox posters--especially orthodoc (Bob).

How is Bob these days anyway? I haven't seen anything from him anywhere in a long time.
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« Reply #1336 on: April 18, 2008, 02:24:39 PM »

Interesting. I can assure you that I am not suffering any inner turmoil. I had a year long experience with Eastern Catholicism and I discovered that the East is simply wrong.
There is time. You are young.   Smiley
You seemed to admitt over at CAF that Fr. Ambrose was one of the factors that contributed to your downfall, althought you didn't call it that.
Fr Ambrose and many others spoke the truth of the Holy Gospels. And my heart embraced this truth through the grace of the Holy Spirit.

Please do not use language such as "downfall". I do not do that to you.  Cry
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« Reply #1337 on: April 18, 2008, 02:25:33 PM »

How is Bob these days anyway? I haven't seen anything from him anywhere in a long time.
He is doing well. We are good internet friends!
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« Reply #1338 on: April 18, 2008, 02:26:48 PM »

There is time. You are young.

Nah. I would never put my salvation in danger like that.
 

:)Fr Ambrose and many others spoke the truth of the Holy Gospels. And my heart embraced this truth through the grace of the Holy Spirit.

You think he spoke the truth.

Please do not use language such as "downfall". I do not do that to you.  Cry
If It offends you I won't use that term again.
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« Reply #1339 on: April 18, 2008, 02:27:24 PM »

CAf Alert!

See the thread "Papal Problems...Continued"  In the Non-Catholic section.

Start at message 105.

Mickey and ForeverAdam, thank for your messages answering East and West.


The thread has mysteriously vanished...
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« Reply #1340 on: April 18, 2008, 02:30:12 PM »

The thread has mysteriously vanished...

Well. Who'd have thunk it?
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« Reply #1341 on: April 18, 2008, 02:33:05 PM »

The thread has mysteriously vanished...

That's what local Hard-drives are for: off-line archiving.
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« Reply #1342 on: April 18, 2008, 02:34:24 PM »

Well. Who'd have thunk it?
Never underestimate the power of OCnet! Cheesy
And we think we have a troll here...more like a mole (Kim Philby-style)
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« Reply #1343 on: April 18, 2008, 02:49:21 PM »

That's what local Hard-drives are for: off-line archiving.

Did you archive it?
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« Reply #1344 on: April 18, 2008, 02:50:33 PM »

Did you archive it?

Some how I know that quotes from that thread will show up again in some one's drive by posting. LOL
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« Reply #1345 on: April 18, 2008, 02:52:07 PM »

Did you archive it?

No. I only archived my posts.
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« Reply #1346 on: April 18, 2008, 03:20:48 PM »

Indeed, East & West, aka Papist's attack on Fr. Ambrose is despicable.  Congrats Papist - you will make a fine Dominican... oh wait, they may have played a lead role in your church's Inquisition, but are now so liberal and touchy-feelie

Well, compared to Torquemada today's Dominicans may appear touchy-feely, but overall they actually are quite solid. There's a reason why there has only been one Dominican order---no offshoots.
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« Reply #1347 on: April 18, 2008, 03:42:41 PM »

Congrats Papist - you will make a fine Dominican... oh wait, they may have played a lead role in your church's Inquisition, but are now so liberal and touchy-feelie I am confident the Dominicans will toss you out on your ear once your ultramontanist nature comes to the fore. We will all shed a tear when that happens.  Cry 

This is a bit of a low-blow, no?
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« Reply #1348 on: April 18, 2008, 05:14:46 PM »

Father, I think the same applies to you. The Lord does want you in the Catholic Church (and by that I mean what most of you call the Roman Catholic Church) because it is his Church. Some day you may return to whence you came and find that you have come home. However, that does not change the fact that the manner in which you approached apologetics at the CAF was in no way ok. Furthermore, it breaks my heart that some one as intelligent as you would use your gift to tear people away from the Ark of Salvation. Remember: "To whom much is given, much is expected."

We came from the Roman Church?  Who knew ?
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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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« Reply #1349 on: April 18, 2008, 05:17:20 PM »

We came from the Roman Church?  Who knew ?
I am not even gonna get into the semantics of Church names again. I am tired. Its friday. I am going home soon.
But, I just want to you to know that I was talking about Fr. Ambrose specifically. I think he was raised Catholic. Although I could be mistaken.
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