OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 18, 2014, 04:03:13 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Jesus hated Religion??  (Read 6380 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« on: November 04, 2007, 07:44:05 PM »

So we have this Catholic family friend of ours who are devout Catholics but at the same time are charismatic and often visit Protestant churches. They kept inviting us to this protestant church called "the meeting place" which looked like a giant warehouse. So against my common sense, I decided to see what was so special about this place... Anyhow, after my sister was escorted to sunday school which started with the kids playing video games (!), we went into "the auditorium" for "worship". There was a lady and man singing with their eyes closed and they looked like they were gonna cry. All the ppl around me looked the same way and I couldnt figure out what was soo emotional or whether it was a zombie effect going on. After the sermon, which got me really agitated because we were told to keep flipping through the Bible in the half-lit room, I went into the bookstore and looked @ some of the titles on the shelf...theres was one book titled orthodoxy...and it detailed how the orthodox, the catholic, and the protestans can all relate to one another to God...

But then I saw the minister's book which was being promoted and sold was titled "Jesus Hates Religion". His idea was that Christ came to rid the world of religion and to bring all people to  God through Jesus...now isnt that just pure heresy?? Sure its protestant but not all protestants beleive the strangest things...I mean the orthodox church believes that Christ came to save the world, and by so doing he also established true religion (which we believe lies in His Church- our Orthodox Church). If this minister does not believe in true religion, how can he stand at a pulpit of an organization claiming to be a church or Christs church???
Logged
Salpy
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,644


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2007, 08:21:16 PM »

I'm sorry, I can't get past the kids starting Sunday School with video games part.

 Shocked Shocked Shocked
Logged

serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,371


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 08:50:17 PM »

could you reference the book, i'd love to take a look at it. 

p.s.  i'd also love to hear his definition of religion...that's gona be a doosy. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
EkhristosAnesti
'I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in Him I will trust."' - Psalm 91:2
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 2,743


Pope St Kyrillos VI


« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2007, 09:58:07 PM »

I'm sorry, I can't get past the kids starting Sunday School with video games part.

 Shocked Shocked Shocked

Salpy, i'm sure you'll get a kick out of this article then:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/us/07halo.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1191787390-j25ktaCBZeyYAzWPmIYrKQ&oref=slogin

Quote
Thou Shalt Not Kill, Except in a Popular Video Game at Church

By MATT RICHTEL
Published: October 7, 2007

First the percussive sounds of sniper fire and the thrill of the kill. Then the gospel of peace.

Across the country, hundreds of ministers and pastors desperate to reach young congregants have drawn concern and criticism through their use of an unusual recruiting tool: the immersive and violent video game Halo.
Logged

No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

"Philosophy is the imitation by a man of what is better, according to what is possible" - St Severus
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2007, 09:58:33 PM »

Basically it's a mantra in a lot of emergent church / non-denominational charismatic churches that basically means that all Jesus really wants is a lovey-dovey, touchy-feely, super-intimate (and, therefore, super-emotional) relationship, so of course ( Roll Eyes) any rule that would be a part of that (liturgy, set prayers, "restrictive" dogma etc) is labeled "religion" and therefore bad.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_CTH6twchIvs/Rs-q2uJiO8I/AAAAAAAAAg4/fSqXFtMswfg/s1600/e-s_004%5B1%5D.jpg
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2007, 10:01:11 PM »

I'm sorry, I can't get past the kids starting Sunday School with video games part.

 Shocked Shocked Shocked
When I was a kid, I had a neighbour friend who kept inviting me to his Bible Church. I don't really know anything about the denomination other than their name. What I remember, though, is that we would always play video games every week. My favourite at the time was a game in which the player played as Noah and tried to find hidden animals. The objective was to bring two of every animal into the ark (and no, God didn't bring them to Noah in this game--though I wonder if Game Genie did....
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,992



« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2007, 11:20:24 PM »

Garry Willis of the New York Times, whose books on St. Augustine and Jesus were top sellers, basically makes the same claim in the opening chapter of Why I Am A Catholic.  It's nonsensical and ridiculous, but then so is he.  Nihil novum sub sole!--Ecclesiastes
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,411



« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2007, 11:53:52 PM »

Basically it's a mantra in a lot of emergent church / non-denominational charismatic churches that basically means that all Jesus really wants is a lovey-dovey, touchy-feely, super-intimate (and, therefore, super-emotional) relationship, so of course ( Roll Eyes) any rule that would be a part of that (liturgy, set prayers, "restrictive" dogma etc) is labeled "religion" and therefore bad.

That's roughly it. Trying to pin down the emergent people is like trying to nail gravy to the wall, but one of their frequent postures is to define down "religion" to mean essentially nothing more than theological propositions and ritual practices. It put me off them right away because it comes across to me as (unwittingly) dishonest; it frees them from having to really deal with the meat of what they are trying to displace.

If you understand it in precisely that narrow sense, then it's reasonable but irrelevant.
Logged
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2007, 12:10:05 AM »

http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/themeetinghouse/myweb.php?hls=10061

"Not Into Religion? Perfect.Neither are We." 

that is their church's slogan...

"Are you tired of religion but still interested in spirituality? Are you cynical about institutional approaches to God while still being open to exploring your faith? Join us as we explore issues of importance in a decidedly "irreligious" way.

Welcome to the website of The Meeting House - a church for people who aren’t into church

We’re a dedicated bunch of Christ-followers (the literal meaning of the word "Christian") who are passionate about introducing others to the real Jesus of Nazareth. Rather than come to start a new religion, Jesus himself was very clear that he came to call us into a new intimacy of relationship with the Creator of the universe.

If you’re seeking answers to some of life’s deeper questions, if you feel "fed up" with religion but still believe there is something more out there, if you’re looking for a positive church experience around Oakville, Hamilton or Toronto, or the Tricities area--or if you’re just plain curious--then CHECK US OUT!..."

« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 12:11:12 AM by Timos » Logged
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2007, 01:02:53 AM »

Trying to pin down the emergent people is like trying to nail gravy to the wall...

Tell me about it.  I was forwarded this interview by a staunchly evangelical (and therefore very anti-emergent) friend of mine, and it illustrates that nicely.  What's frustrating, though, is that some of the emergent folks are actually hitting around some of the distinctive teachings of eastern Christianity (listen here -- especially minutes 40 and 42) without fully realizing it.

These folks are sincere, there's no denying that; they want to see the heart, the Spirit of the Gospel -- love of God and real love of neighbor -- put first.  Unfortunately, I don't think they're working with the right framework -- or, indeed, any framework! -- that would allow them to do this.
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,371


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2007, 01:19:06 AM »

Thank you all.  After midterms I might actually post or contact some of these people/organizations. 

And thank you for that book reference.  I will probobly (actually) take a look at it.  This is a big pet-pieve of mine...so...thanks! 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
ComingHome
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Yes
Posts: 302


« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 01:49:01 AM »

As unbelievable as it seems this "no religion" mantra has been popular for some time among some.

The following are book titles:

  How to Be a Christian Without Being Religious by Fritz Ridenour

     How To Live Forever Without Being Religious by Ray Comfort

    Sermon title:  How to Change the world without being religious by Adrian Warnock
Logged
Νεκτάριος
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,437



« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 01:59:02 AM »

That's roughly it. Trying to pin down the emergent people is like trying to nail gravy to the wall, but one of their frequent postures is to define down "religion" to mean essentially nothing more than theological propositions and ritual practices. It put me off them right away because it comes across to me as (unwittingly) dishonest; it frees them from having to really deal with the meat of what they are trying to displace.
If you understand it in precisely that narrow sense, then it's reasonable but irrelevant.

Part of this though is that most people posting here place an undue emphasis on theology that many other people wouldn't.  The reason they can't nail down an exact theological position? It's not important to them.  This is their outlet and response to what they perceive as hypocrisy and the misplaced priorities of mainline Christianity.  Hence trying to analyze this and understand it as a theological movement rather than as a matter of sociology won't yield any productive results, IMO. 
Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 07:52:11 AM »

most people posting here place an undue emphasis on theology
Huh
From what I see, the emphasis is on sport, alcohol, and politics. We must be reading different fora.
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,371


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 08:34:54 AM »

Huh
From what I see, the emphasis is on sport, alcohol, and politics. We must be reading different fora.

Are these not just words for "martyrdon" "recieving the Holy Spirit" and "theological dialogue"
 Grin Grin Grin

Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2007, 09:17:44 AM »

Huh
From what I see, the emphasis is on sport, alcohol, and politics. We must be reading different fora.

Yay for the plural of forum!   Grin

Sadly, these people get into blaming organised religion for all problems of the church but fail to see how disorganised religion becomes a smorgasboard of personal beliefs/fantasies about God.  When I was in a Baptist youth group in high school, our youth pastor frequently said things like, "Well, I can't prove it from the Bible but my feeling on XYZ subject is this..." and that would become the basis of his belief.  (And of course, being Baptists, we didn't trust tradition or the Holy Fathers so we relied only on the Bible i.e. our interpretation of the Bible.)  For the record, the youth pastor is very sincere in his thirst for God but he's placed himself within the restraints of sola scriptura and, worse, the "relevant to this generation" concept.  Last I heard of him, he was holding motocross trick shows where they pause in between jumping dirtbikes to deliver a speech akin to the spiritual laws tract and then continue dirtbiking.  Same idea as video games at church... bait and switch.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 09:19:09 AM by EofK » Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,411



« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2007, 12:22:46 PM »

Part of this though is that most people posting here place an undue emphasis on theology that many other people wouldn't.  The reason they can't nail down an exact theological position? It's not important to them.  This is their outlet and response to what they perceive as hypocrisy and the misplaced priorities of mainline Christianity.  Hence trying to analyze this and understand it as a theological movement rather than as a matter of sociology won't yield any productive results, IMO.

I think it's a little more theological than that. Part of the issue is that "emergent" covers almost any po-mo church movement, so you have people coming at "there's something wrong with church" from decidedly different angles. The most visible strain is the "church services are not attracting people" group, but there is also a "there is something wrong with the way we are doing theology" group (e.g. Eugene Peterson). Ironically the last group tends to be more "orthodox" than the first.
Logged
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2007, 02:52:52 PM »

Ironically the last group [that says "there is something wrong with the way we are doing theology"] tends to be more "orthodox" than the [group that says "there's something wrong with church"].

Hmm...I'm not so surprised, I guess...as the theology group is concerned with theology, they would, I think, be more concerned with orthodoxy of doctrine than the folks who just want coffee bars, bowling alleys, and video games in their community centers churches.

Why would that surprise you?
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2007, 03:14:42 PM »

Yes, I definitely think the "house church" strain of these "new church" movements is more tolerable. Roommate is a housechurcher, and I must say what they are doing is a marked improvement from the Disney-esque rock music/charismatic sermon megachurch stuff (most of them are ex-megachurchers). They eat a meal, read from the Bible, pray, sing songs together, do the "Lord's Supper" every Sunday (nice to see the focus on that---even if it isn't real). Sure they get some things wrong with their scrupulous adherence to the New Testament "model" as opposed to the "institutional model," but they are sincere and certainly have a point about the "going through the motions" thing and widespread anonymity seen at so many "institutional" churches today.
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2007, 12:11:06 PM »

Basically it's a mantra in a lot of emergent church / non-denominational charismatic churches that basically means that all Jesus really wants is a lovey-dovey, touchy-feely, super-intimate (and, therefore, super-emotional) relationship, so of course ( Roll Eyes) any rule that would be a part of that (liturgy, set prayers, "restrictive" dogma etc) is labeled "religion" and therefore bad.

Agreed.  In a strange way though, some of these people have a point.  I wholeheartedly concur with the idea that Christianity is not religion at all.  It is the religion to end all religions, "religion-less religion."  This is because Christ has inaugurated the Kingdom already, even though it is also not here yet as well.  Christianity is "the Way."  It's totally organic because its adherents form the body of Christ.  Any "rules" of morality follow from Christ's example of total love for humanity and from the necessity of keeping us on track following Christ, since we are such nincompoops and need to keep defining things to help us keep seeing the Truth as He really is (albeit very  dimly).  There's essentially nothing solely of human construction in the Church, except for lots of unfortunate encrustations that people keep trying to stick on Her.  Too bad these "I hate religion"  guys haven't figured out  little things like the fact that the Church is just as material as it is spiritual (with these "inconsequential" things like sacraments, apostolic succession etc.)   

Re: house churches.  I have seen a couple of examples of totally Protestant-inspired "non -denominational" house churches having come to the realisation that a geniunely Eucharist-centred kind of worship is necessary.  Good for them!  I really hope that groups like this continue to search for Christ in humility.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 12:12:51 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,411



« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2007, 04:30:34 PM »

Part of the problem with the whole idea is that when you use a serious definition of religion, Christianity certainly is one; and if you use a crappy one, no other major religion fits it.
Logged
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2007, 11:56:20 PM »

Didn't mean to cut the divergence off  Cheesy but so can we gather then that Jesus really did come to do away with 'religion???'...I mean doesnt He even say something to the effect of not doing away with the Old Laws but coming to Fulfill them...which would mean His new religion.

Did the early christians consider themselves as part of a new religion? I've been told NO, but if so they had to recognise somewhere along the line that what they were doing was not fully Judaism.
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2007, 01:33:58 AM »

Part of the problem with the whole idea is that when you use a serious definition of religion, Christianity certainly is one; and if you use a crappy one, no other major religion fits it.

Please elaborate.
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2007, 03:06:36 AM »

Didn't mean to cut the divergence off  Cheesy but so can we gather then that Jesus really did come to do away with 'religion???'...I mean doesnt He even say something to the effect of not doing away with the Old Laws but coming to Fulfill them...which would mean His new religion.

Jesus's fulfillment of the law essentially puts an end to "religion".  The Church teaches that Christ both fulfills the law and frees us from its curse, since it was impossible to follow all of its prescripts.  In inaugurating the Kingdom for us, Jesus makes all religion unnecessary.  What is religion?  It is essentially a human construct, something that people create to try and explain the world around them.  Christianity is not a religion, but a response to Divine revelation!  We endeavour to follow Jesus and to live in the Kingdom that he has inaugurated but is not yet fully realised.  (CF the anaphora of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom: "You brought us from non-existence into being, and when we fell away you raised us up again, and did not cease to do all things until you had brought us up to heaven and endowed us with your Kingdom which is yet to come." (The italics are mine.)  There is no need for "religion" since God has come in the flesh and revealed His Kingdom:  we simply have to strive to conform to his will (Of course, Judaism before the time of Christ already had many elements of a "non-religion", but it was incomplete and sometimes only too "religous":  remember how Jesus roundly condemned the Pharisees for attempting to follow inconsequential tidbits of the Law to the letter while neglecting the spirit of the Law.  Hmmm.  Could there be a message there for us Orthodox?  But I digress....)
The things that Jesus did were scandalous to many devout followers of the Law.  He treated women as equals.  He spoke to, and advocated helping Samaritans, a despised sect considered heretical by the Jews.  He advocated helping people even when it meant losing ritual purity as described under the Law, and did so himself.  He also made himself "unclean" by eating with tax collectors and sinners.  And many other things besides that turned the world of Judaism on its ear.

Quote
Did the early christians consider themselves as part of a new religion? I've been told NO, but if so they had to recognise somewhere along the line that what they were doing was not fully Judaism.

It's more like this:  after the resurrection of  Christ, the earliest Christians (being Jewish) thought of themselves as Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah and accepted that this meant the world was forever changed.  They believed that the Kingdom of God had come and was coming into their midst with such power that the end of the world was very near.  Certainly they probably continued to worship in the synagogues, and supplemented this worship with an agape meal and the Eucharist.  Worshipping in the temple would have stopped very early, since they recognized that Jesus's advent supplanted temple worship and the temple was destroyed in 70 AD anyway.  Eventually, Jews either wouldn't let them worship with them in synagogues anymore in any part of the known world, because they could not accept Jesus as the Messiah or anything that came with that belief OR in some cases Christians stopped worshipping in synagogues of their own accord, when Jews there simply wouldn't listen to them or accept their message.
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,188


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2007, 03:36:16 AM »

^^ But then, how do you respond to those who define religion as the rites or practices of one's Orthodox faith in Christ?  I'm thinking particularly of the definition St. James attached to the word in his general epistle.

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."  - James 1:27
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 03:39:52 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Keble
All-Knowing Grand Wizard of Debunking
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,411



« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2007, 01:14:48 PM »

What is religion?  It is essentially a human construct, something that people create to try and explain the world around them.  Christianity is not a religion, but a response to Divine revelation!

That's the distinction between true religion (from God) and false religion (from men).
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2007, 01:35:15 PM »

^^ But then, how do you respond to those who define religion as the rites or practices of one's Orthodox faith in Christ?  I'm thinking particularly of the definition St. James attached to the word in his general epistle.

"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."  - James 1:27

Well, I think in fairness, I am overstating the case a bit in order to make a point. Another defiintion of religion (pertinent also to Keble's last post) could perhaps be a system set up to explain how "gods" or "God" work in a cosmology in which they are not really involved with people at all.  Our God is concerned with and interacts with humanity. 

With regards to your example, of course Christianity can be called a religion in the sense in that we set up a system of practices ("rules" of conduct, liturgical practice etc.) that help us stay on the right path.   I am overstating things a bit in order to make a point about the "radical newness" of the Kingdom brought by Jesus.  This  "newness" could not be put into the "old wineskins" of the Law; the old wineskins would have broken.  Christianity is in one sense the continuation of Judaism, but in another sense it is something completely new.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 03:07:35 PM by Pravoslavbob » Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2007, 07:38:08 PM »

Thanks pravoslavbob that paints a much clearer picture when you look at it that way- but still that Protestant minister was basically saying that "organized religion" is wrong and protestant/ freestyle religion is what Jesus came to promote- then again given that hes a minister why am I surprised?
Logged
Pravoslavbob
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,183


St. Sisoes the Great


« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2007, 08:27:33 PM »

Thanks pravoslavbob that paints a much clearer picture when you look at it that way- but still that Protestant minister was basically saying that "organized religion" is wrong and protestant/ freestyle religion is what Jesus came to promote- then again given that hes a minister why am I surprised?

Yeah.  Some people think that if there is any kind of "institution" involved, it can't be good.  But the Church is visible and material as well as spiritual!
Logged

Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2007, 12:33:39 AM »

ditto
Logged
antiderivative
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Northeastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: A jurisdiction
Posts: 349


« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2008, 12:46:05 PM »

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/us/07halo.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1191787390-j25ktaCBZeyYAzWPm

-Maybe just a little different from the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 12:46:46 PM by antiderivative » Logged

signature
buzuxi
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: GREEK ORTHODOX
Jurisdiction: WORLD ORTHODOXY AGAINST ECUMENISM
Posts: 265


« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 01:16:18 PM »

Jesus was religious, thats why at age 12 he was in the temple daily. Thats why at age 30 he was baptised by John the Baptist and began preaching the Kingdom of God. Thats why he instituted the Eucharist and told his disciples to fast once he is gone. And the first believing jews saw prophecies if this Christ in their holy scriptures. Thats religion.
 

Logged
ionios
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: orthodox christian
Jurisdiction: Church of Greece
Posts: 2


« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2008, 03:10:53 AM »

hey to everyone!
i am new and i like very nuch the forum

about religion Romanides has wrote:   http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.02.en.the_cure_of_the_neurobiological_sickness_of_rel.01.htm#1

THE CURE OF THE NEUROBIOLOGICAL SICKNESS OF RELIGION [ 1 ]
THE HELLENIC CIVILIZATION OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE,
CHARLEMAGNE'S LIE OF 794, AND HIS LIE TODAY

© John S. Romanides

ohn S. Romanides 1996. My analysis that "religion is a neurological sickness caused by a short circuit between the brain and the heart" was first published in 1996 under the title "Religion is a Neurological Sickness, but Orthodoxy is its Cure," by Koutloumousiou Monastery of Mount Athos in its volume entitled "Orthodoxy and Hellenism On Her Way Toward the 3rd millennium."
Logged
ionios
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: orthodox christian
Jurisdiction: Church of Greece
Posts: 2


« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2008, 03:17:56 AM »

This tradition of cure survived in Orthodox monasticism quite strongly within the Ottoman Empire. It was only during the drive of the Empires of Russia, Francia and Britain for the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire that they obliged the Orthodox States they created from its ruins to accept the reforms of Peter the Great as one of the essential conditions for gaining their support. In other words, without realizing it, these three Empires concentrated their attack on the cure of the sickness of religion, whose center had for centuries been Orthodox monasticism. This was replaced by a so-called Westernization, which had been accomplished in Russia, which simply meant that Orthodoxy was being condemned to becoming a religion like Vaticanism and Protestantism.

http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.02.en.the_cure_of_the_neurobiological_sickness_of_rel.01.htm#s6
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,070


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2008, 08:56:12 AM »

hey to everyone!
i am new and i like very nuch the forum

Welcome!
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2008, 08:53:49 PM »

Welcome, Ionios!
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
Tags: Protestant Christianity Emergent Church 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.126 seconds with 62 queries.