Author Topic: Tone usage  (Read 1489 times)

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Offline Robert

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Tone usage
« on: May 29, 2003, 05:40:24 PM »
OK..can't figure out if this should go in Catholic Forum or Liturgy... anyway


Why do the ruthenians have greek usage for their antiphons instead of the slavic usage??

Bobby

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Re:Tone usage
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2003, 07:37:24 PM »
Maybe they see that the GREEKS ARE BETTER!!!!! :P


....just joking everybody!

Hypo-Ortho

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Re:Tone usage
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2003, 08:40:35 PM »
OK..can't figure out if this should go in Catholic Forum or Liturgy... anyway


Why do the ruthenians have greek usage for their antiphons instead of the slavic usage??

Bobby

Maybe because there is *NOT* a uniform Slavic recension, Bobby?   ;)

Hypo-Ortho

Offline TonyS

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Re:Tone usage
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2003, 10:43:02 PM »
OK..can't figure out if this should go in Catholic Forum or Liturgy... anyway


Why do the ruthenians have greek usage for their antiphons instead of the slavic usage??

Bobby

Bobby,

XB!

Not to be so persnickety but... "tone usage" has nothing to do with antiphons, except that they are often sung in tone one among the Russians.  Further the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese of Johnstown uses the same "recension" so while some argument could be made that it is a Catholic or  a Uniate issue I don't think many would make that argument.  

There was quite the discussion some time ago on another Orthodox list in which I participate as to the possible reason for this.   The "Ruthenians" are not the only ones who do it.  There is some geography behind it though (that should not be surprising).  I will look for that and see if I can find it and let you know.  There are, of course, several possible reaons.  

My thoughts on this are basically that the "Paschal antiphons" are certainly legitimately used on Sundays througout the year.  Their use is not apparently a latinization (how could it be?), is is a pre-Nikonianism?  I don't think so.   The modern Old Believer usage I am familiar with is the same as the Nikonian among the Russians.  Meyendorff does not mention it in Russia, Ritual and Reform.  I don't recall what was said about it in class (either here or in my former institution :-X ) perhaps Anastasios does.  I am under the impression that the 1st and 3rd Paschal antiphons are the older ones and the 2nd's placement in the liturgy is not understood so well.

The "Typical Psalms" and the Beatitudes are sung in the Ruthenian Church and they are in most older publications.  The general practice was to sing them during fasting seasons but some parishes may take them all the time, it would not surprise me.  Of course, the 3rd antiphon was surpressed in all its forms for a long time.  

The Ruthenians/Carpatho-Russians sometimes make the claim to "Greek" usage as opposed to Russian.  In some instances, this appears to be authentically the case

Tony
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