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Author Topic: Vista, be gone!  (Read 9140 times) Average Rating: 0
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lubeltri
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« on: October 27, 2007, 09:51:26 AM »

Yay!!!!! After a lot of work, I've finally managed to upgrade my computer from Windows Vista to XP!

Vista is maddening. It is a dog. A rabid one. Anybody else have trouble with this piece of crap operating system? At MIT, where I work, all the tech people are sticking with XP (or, more commonly, Macs and Linux).
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2007, 10:32:53 AM »

YES! I've had trouble with this one from the day I got it. Sure, it looks nice, but it fails to run most of the programs I use most (including about half my games) and the rest it runs poorly. About the only programs it really likes are Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer (I prefer Firefox, but sometimes it won't open...hmm, haven't seen that one before....). Fortunately, I had the sense to set up a dual-boot, so if I want to run anything important, I can still do it on XP. XP was the epitome of Windows computing, IMHO. Vista took a bold step off the path and crushed a butterfly.
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2007, 11:02:21 AM »

Once again, advantages are given to neo-Luddites like myself...

I just can't get excited about any of this, and I think I'm better off!
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2007, 11:03:35 AM »

You should upgrade again, this time to Linux. :-)
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« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 12:33:48 PM »

I personally hate Windows and dont use it anymore.  But for the sake of being fair, XP also was garbage when it first came out, with so many bugs.  PC World recommended to stick with 2000.  Later on, bugs were fixed and more and more people bought XP and were happy.

Never buy an OS when it first comes out.  Theyre beta versions in disguise until all is fixed.  So, sooner or later Vista will catch on.

As for the title for this thread, it really should be Windows, be gone.  You can learn a lot from your MIT colleagues who commonly use the more stable UNIX based OS, like a Mac.
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« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 12:37:22 PM »

For that matter, never upgrade one's Linux kernel to a x.0 version - wait for x.1 or better.

I say this but never do it, always ready to pounce on a new release immediately and then regretting it.
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« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 12:47:05 PM »

As for the title for this thread, it really should be Windows, be gone.  You can learn a lot from your MIT colleagues who commonly use the more stable UNIX based OS, like a Mac.

I know. Some of the postdocs in my lab were telling me to get an iMac when I was shopping for a new notebook in September. I almost pulled the string on a 5.3-pound version. But I got a great deal on a 2.8-pound IBM Thinkpad. As I get around on foot, something portable was a high priority of mine. I call it my Fisher Price laptop, it's so small and light.

I must say, though, it would have been nice to run my iPod on a Mac---it's kind of a pain on a Windows-based system.

I'll keep my copy of Vista until they work out the problems with it. The thing literally grinds your system to a halt. Maybe I'll go Mac next time. . .
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2007, 12:56:26 PM »

Never buy an OS when it first comes out.  Theyre beta versions in disguise until all is fixed.  So, sooner or later Vista will catch on.
I hope so, but I really wouldn't compare Vista to XP. XP was the last of a series of 32-bit operating systems that began with Windows 98. A better comparison for Vista is Windows 95. 95 was a 16-/32-bit hybrid OS designed to allow users with a 16-bit library full access to their programs while they transition to 32-bit. Vista is much the same (although most users, myself included, do not yet have the 64-bit Vista). 95 never did fix all the bugs; those would be corrected in subsequent OSes.

That said, I didn't pay for Vista. I got it as part of a promotion late last year. Some of you will remember the "buy XP, get Vista free" campaign. My computer (purchased in 2002) had become so outdated that I needed to upgrade virtually everything. I felt it would be cheaper to buy an entirely new tower than to buy all the parts (especially with the transition to SATA). I didn't even know about the promotion, but I figured why not? The world eventually will be run on Vista--MS does its utmost to make sure of that--so if I can get it free, saves me $200 that I would have spent eventually.

I have seen a lot of improvement I first installed Vista early this year. Back in Feb/Mar, two instances of Windows Explorer were incompatible (i.e., I couldn't move a file from one to the other). There were several other annoyances, as well. I must say, though, that I am enjoying DX10 video. That is a big plus--and when MS eventually fixes all the bugs in Vista around 2016, I'll probably really like it.
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« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2007, 04:40:19 PM »

go linux.
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2007, 04:48:14 PM »

....when MS eventually fixes all the bugs in Vista around 2016, I'll probably really like it.

  Whew.  That's a really brisk pace.  Kind of reminds you of how quickly we Orthodox solve any doctrinal disputes.   Wink
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2007, 06:21:50 PM »

  Whew.  That's a really brisk pace.
I know. But they're really committed to the cause. Brought in a third shift, even.  Wink
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« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2007, 12:25:04 AM »

http://www.slackware.com/
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« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2007, 05:50:49 AM »

GiC's a Slacker, too!?

I'll never live this down...
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2007, 08:22:48 AM »

Quote
That said, I didn't pay for Vista.

I really have never paid for an operating system alone.  I would simply pay for the computer and if it came with it, great.  I also think the way they price the OS is ridiculous.
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2007, 08:28:51 AM »

Agreed. They're still selling XP upgrades for $200, and the full program for $290. A six-year-old OS is not worth that. (Of course, if you buy from NewEgg, you can get the OEM for much less, but those are the retail prices.
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2007, 07:26:08 PM »

Interesting topic...  When I purchased my desktop PC back in January, Dell was running a promotional in connection with the upcoming release of Vista in just a couple of months.  Buy my computer with XP installed and, when Vista comes out, receive the update for free.  Well, I did that.  Fortunately, I partitioned my hard drive in such a way as to install both XP and Vista on it and make it a dual-boot machine.  I tried using Vista for a while, but got fed up with trying to figure out why the available data storage on my Vista partition was always being reduced whenever I had my Firefox browser open for a significant amount of time and returned to XP; I think I lost an average of one or two gigabytes a week, but I would get this all back when I booted with XP then rebooted with Vista.  I still have a partition devoted solely to the Vista OS, but I never use it.  Maybe when Microsoft releases SP1... Undecided

Important tip for the technically savvy: partition your hard drive to separate your personal files (documents, spreadsheets, music downloads, etc.) from your operating system and program files.  If your system should crash, requiring a reformat of your system partition, you won't lose any of your personal files.
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2007, 07:40:13 PM »

Important tip for the technically savvy: partition your hard drive to separate your personal files (documents, spreadsheets, music downloads, etc.) from your operating system and program files.  If your system should crash, requiring a reformat of your system partition, you won't lose any of your personal files.

Good point.  I just used external hard drives or secondary internal hard drives instead of partitioning (although with a lot of small desktops, there really is no more room for second internal hard drives), to save some of the important stuff.  It makes it easier for me than partition (there's also backup, but those softwares are annoying).
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2007, 10:51:34 PM »

Hello,

I won't tell you what I think of Microsoft and Windows - it really doesn't bear saying. I have used Vista, in fact I have it on my computer, but I never use it (my father uses it, so I keep it for him).

I recommend migrating to the Unix and Linux world. I currently use Slackware (12.0) and NetBSD (3.1, though 4.0 may be out by New Year's). I will never go back to the Windows world of my own volition.

If you are a beginner, I would recommend a distribution such as Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS to get your feet wet. They are geared to the new Linux user and especially those coming from Windows. In fact Ubuntu is a live CD, which means you can use it without having to alter your hard drive at all. The entire OS runs off of the CD - but if you want to save any files you need something like a USB drive. This is great if you are unsure and want to try Linux without committing to it or going cold turkey from Windows.
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2007, 10:55:17 AM »

Another Slacker! ...good man.
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« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2007, 06:00:36 PM »

Hello,

Another Slacker! ...good man.
I started off years ago with Red Hat 9. Then I moved on up with the rollover to Fedora. I followed Fedora through version 3 or 4, but it was just too buggy. Their main focus is on the blazing edge, which is what some folks want and need - but not me. I then migrated to Slackware back when it was 10.2 and have been using it ever since. I also use NetBSD, and may start to make it my primary OS - I'm not sure yet.
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« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2007, 07:37:59 PM »

1995, Started with Slackware 3.2. Tried Redhat, Mandrake, Caldera, Debian. Had to know SCO-Unix and OS/2 for work. Used SUN O/S (with Solaris) at home for a while. Switched back to Slack because it seemed the most Unix-like. Still on Slack 8.1. Awaiting new computer for the new kernel.
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« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2007, 07:45:17 PM »

1995, Started with Slackware 3.2. Tried Redhat, Mandrake, Caldera, Debian. Had to know SCO-Unix and OS/2 for work. Used SUN O/S (with Solaris) at home for a while. Switched back to Slack because it seemed the most Unix-like. Still on Slack 8.1. Awaiting new computer for the new kernel.

Remember the slackware disk sets Wink

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« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2007, 07:46:01 PM »

I run a Sparc with Solaris 10 on it, an Ubuntu machine, and HP-UX.

I use VMWare if I absolutely have to run Windows...

Unix is the way to go.
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 01:38:28 PM »

I've used Ubuntu and Open Suse in recent months, but am now using Mac OS Leopard. 

Had Vista for about a month earlier this year, after it first came out.  Hardly anything worked, and it gave my laptop power management fits.
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« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 07:11:45 PM »

A great Christmas present would be posting & explaining technical stuff that someone who is along in years can understand and apply...

Though I hope that I'm not babbling incoherently yet...
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 09:13:39 PM »

I had VISTA placed on a my old laptop by someone that thought they were doing me a favor. That lasted a few days, in which I shelved the laptop, then later sold it. I got myself a nice MacBook instead. I even upgraded to their new operating system, Leopard (OSX 10.5) and I still have no complaints. So I want to thank all at Microsoft that created VISTA help me make a decision to go to Mac. Smiley

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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 11:30:32 PM »

Hello,

A great Christmas present would be posting & explaining technical stuff that someone who is along in years can understand and apply...

Though I hope that I'm not babbling incoherently yet...
I find the best sources for books are those highly technical books. After that, for those who aren't as "techie", there are the "For Dummies" series. If a person still has trouble with that, I find that the only practical solution is hands on instruction. You might want to look at your local college for computer courses (look for the lowest numbered courses) to get started.
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« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2009, 12:50:29 PM »

Two words: Windows 7.  Grin
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« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2009, 01:05:43 PM »

Two words: Windows 7.  Grin

One word: No

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« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2009, 02:04:23 PM »

Two words: Windows 7.  Grin

One word: No

-Nick

Is that a "No, never use Windows or any Microsoft product," or is that a "No, I usually use windows but I don't like Vista and am skeptical about 7?"
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« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2009, 03:24:39 PM »

Two words: Windows 7.  Grin

One word: No

-Nick

Is that a "No, never use Windows or any Microsoft product," or is that a "No, I usually use windows but I don't like Vista and am skeptical about 7?"

It would be a No, never use windows but because I love a good game, I can't entirely get away from windows, so its a "No, Windows 7 is not the answer"
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« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2009, 03:27:12 PM »

Two words: Windows 7.  Grin

One word: No

-Nick

Is that a "No, never use Windows or any Microsoft product," or is that a "No, I usually use windows but I don't like Vista and am skeptical about 7?"

It would be a No, never use windows but because I love a good game, I can't entirely get away from windows, so its a "No, Windows 7 is not the answer"
My first impression: It works. That's already better than Vista.
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2009, 05:26:35 PM »

I have to admit, as much as it is steps above Vista, I'm still disappointed by the lack of a new file system.  NTFS is showing its age, and with the eventual release of Btrfs, Linux will be even more leaps and bounds ahead of Windows in yet another field.
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2009, 05:40:45 PM »

I have to admit, as much as it is steps above Vista, I'm still disappointed by the lack of a new file system.  NTFS is showing its age, and with the eventual release of Btrfs, Linux will be even more leaps and bounds ahead of Windows in yet another field.

For all we know, Microsoft could have integrated Btrfs into NTFS assuming that Windows 7 was built on some UNIX code base like Windows 2000.  The Literature doesn't say much about NTFS and Windows 7.

Edited for content.
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2009, 10:22:06 PM »

Windows 7 will prove to be an awesome operating system. It's already had rave reviews from many knowledgeable technical folks (i.e. Paul Thurott, Leo Laporte to name just two). We'll be upgrading our boxes next month.
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2009, 10:28:57 PM »

I was sceptical at first, but I ended up getting 7 today on Paul Thurott's recommendation. I figure if he likes it, it's got to be good. Cheesy

I've played around with many of the new features, and I'm impressed. It's nothing earth-shattering, but it runs perfectly. No bugs, fast startup, and--best of all--I have not gotten a single security warning. I know, those ought to be minimum expectations, but I did mention it was Windows. Grin
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« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2009, 10:34:26 PM »

For all we know, Microsoft could have integrated Btrfs into NTFS assuming that Windows 7 was built on some UNIX code base like Windows 2000.  The Literature doesn't say much about NTFS and Windows 7.

Edited for content.

NTFS hasn't changed too much over the last few years, but when being implemented, they did include borrow a lot of ideas from Unix-based file systems.  Only now, with Vista and 7, are some of those features being used on the client's end (symbolic links, etc).  So I would definitely say they have borrowed a lot from XFS, JFS, Reiser, parts of the Ext3, but since btrfs is still in alpha testing (it has only been in the kernel for a couple of releases), NTFS doesn't show any signs of adding such implementations.  An example of the big one, especially from large scale operations' standpoint, would be the addition of checksums and multi-device pooling in the file system itself.
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« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2009, 10:37:20 PM »

For all we know, Microsoft could have integrated Btrfs into NTFS assuming that Windows 7 was built on some UNIX code base like Windows 2000.  The Literature doesn't say much about NTFS and Windows 7.

Edited for content.

NTFS hasn't changed too much over the last few years, but when being implemented, they did include borrow a lot of ideas from Unix-based file systems.  Only now, with Vista and 7, are some of those features being used on the client's end (symbolic links, etc).  So I would definitely say they have borrowed a lot from XFS, JFS, Reiser, parts of the Ext3, but since btrfs is still in alpha testing (it has only been in the kernel for a couple of releases), NTFS doesn't show any signs of adding such implementations.  An example of the big one, especially from large scale operations' standpoint, would be the addition of checksums and multi-device pooling in the file system itself.
Now, I don't know much about them yet, but 7's file system includes "libraries" that are intended for sharing files among multiple systems running 7. As I have only one system running 7, I can't test it, but that may be a step toward implementing such features as you describe.
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2009, 11:27:16 PM »

NTFS hasn't changed too much over the last few years, but when being implemented, they did include borrow a lot of ideas from Unix-based file systems.  Only now, with Vista and 7, are some of those features being used on the client's end (symbolic links, etc).  So I would definitely say they have borrowed a lot from XFS, JFS, Reiser, parts of the Ext3, but since btrfs is still in alpha testing (it has only been in the kernel for a couple of releases), NTFS doesn't show any signs of adding such implementations.

NTFS 5 was in XP and I believe NTFS 5.1 was in Vista.  Yet, I don't see any reference to version of NTFS in Windows 7.  What if Microsoft took alpha level btrfs code and merged it into NTFS; after all, Microsoft had over 1000 builds from Windows 7 Beta 1 to Windows 7 RTM.  The use of open source file systems explains how Windows 7 outperforms Vista and XP except in video processing where XP has the advantage over Windows 7.

An example of the big one, especially from large scale operations' standpoint, would be the addition of checksums and multi-device pooling in the file system itself.

Based on screen shots, Windows 7's device manager looks like a GUI based multi-device pooling from the file system.   Huh
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2009, 11:59:58 PM »

NTFS 5 was in XP and I believe NTFS 5.1 was in Vista.  Yet, I don't see any reference to version of NTFS in Windows 7.  What if Microsoft took alpha level btrfs code and merged it into NTFS; after all, Microsoft had over 1000 builds from Windows 7 Beta 1 to Windows 7 RTM.  The use of open source file systems explains how Windows 7 outperforms Vista and XP except in video processing where XP has the advantage over Windows 7.

It uses a NTFS 6.0 or 6.x.  I've been able to use Server 2008 R2 RTM which is based on NT 6.1, like 7.  NTFS just hasn't shown any significant changes.  Yes, it is adding a lot of features, but it hasn't done much to the bones of NTFS.  For the key Btrfs features to be added to NTFS, they would have to rebuild some of the basics.  NTFS is still your typical journaling file system, while Btrfs is much more hybrid.  A ground up build is needed, and was expected, but it was abandoned.

Quote
Based on screen shots, Windows 7's device manager looks like a GUI based multi-device pooling from the file system.   Huh

The multi-device pooling I was talking about more has to do with the implementation of a file system over virtual pools over virtual devices.  Volume managers and raid arrays are no longer required separately, since the file system doesn't recognise things as a single drive, a single device, etc.  Everything is virtual, everything is scalable, everything is included; it is all part of the hybrid nature of ZFS and later, btrfs.  Since this is only a major deal in huge, large scale operations, Windows hasn't moved to implement it, since no one would trust a Windows machine in such applications.
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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2009, 12:25:49 AM »

As for the title for this thread, it really should be Windows, be gone.  You can learn a lot from your MIT colleagues who commonly use the more stable UNIX based OS, like a Mac.

I know. Some of the postdocs in my lab were telling me to get an iMac when I was shopping for a new notebook in September. I almost pulled the string on a 5.3-pound version. But I got a great deal on a 2.8-pound IBM Thinkpad. As I get around on foot, something portable was a high priority of mine. I call it my Fisher Price laptop, it's so small and light.

I must say, though, it would have been nice to run my iPod on a Mac---it's kind of a pain on a Windows-based system.

I'll keep my copy of Vista until they work out the problems with it. The thing literally grinds your system to a halt. Maybe I'll go Mac next time. . .

Hard to believe it's been two years.

My system's been on Vista for the past year or so. I STILL don't like it.

I think I'd like to run my Lenovo Thinkpad X61 another year before I replace it, so I'm wondering if it's worth getting Windows 7. I can get the academic price for $29.99.

My question is, should I get the 32-bit or the 64-bit? I heard that some software and hardware don't work with a 64-bit system, but the 64-bit is supposed to run faster.

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4 GB of memory.
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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2009, 12:44:07 AM »

Hard to believe it's been two years.

My system's been on Vista for the past year or so. I STILL don't like it.

I think I'd like to run my Lenovo Thinkpad X61 another year before I replace it, so I'm wondering if it's worth getting Windows 7. I can get the academic price for $29.99.

My question is, should I get the 32-bit or the 64-bit? I heard that some software and hardware don't work with a 64-bit system, but the 64-bit is supposed to run faster.

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4 GB of memory.

64-bit.  Windows' 64-bit support has increased leaps and bounds compared to the state it was in with XP x64.  You might notice a very, very small increase in speed in certain instances, but not often.  When it comes to software and hardware compatibility, you should be find with an X61.  WOW64, which allows 32-bit software to be run in a 64-bit environment, works great.  And any hardware issues for moderately new hardware has been flushed out by now.  Linux 64-bit has been mainstream for years now, so developers haven't been shy to start implementing Windows 64-bit drivers.  Plus, with 64-bit, your software can use all of the 4GB of RAM (both 32 and 64 bit programmes).
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« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2009, 02:09:40 AM »

Thanks for the help! It looks like I have to do a custom installation (a clean install) to go from 32 bit to 64 bit. Should be fun.  Cheesy
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« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2009, 07:28:39 AM »

Well, all I know is that the computer I'm currently using came with Vista (after it had been out over a year - so I guess most of the major bugs, you know New York Cock Roach size, had been eliminated) and it has worked fine. I'm planning on giving Windows 7 until after Nativity to get all the major bugs out before upgrading. Plus, January is a good season to spend days sweating over computer issues.  Grin
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« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2009, 09:28:07 AM »

As for the title for this thread, it really should be Windows, be gone.  You can learn a lot from your MIT colleagues who commonly use the more stable UNIX based OS, like a Mac.

I know. Some of the postdocs in my lab were telling me to get an iMac when I was shopping for a new notebook in September. I almost pulled the string on a 5.3-pound version. But I got a great deal on a 2.8-pound IBM Thinkpad. As I get around on foot, something portable was a high priority of mine. I call it my Fisher Price laptop, it's so small and light.

I must say, though, it would have been nice to run my iPod on a Mac---it's kind of a pain on a Windows-based system.

I'll keep my copy of Vista until they work out the problems with it. The thing literally grinds your system to a halt. Maybe I'll go Mac next time. . .

Hard to believe it's been two years.

My system's been on Vista for the past year or so. I STILL don't like it.

I think I'd like to run my Lenovo Thinkpad X61 another year before I replace it, so I'm wondering if it's worth getting Windows 7. I can get the academic price for $29.99.

My question is, should I get the 32-bit or the 64-bit? I heard that some software and hardware don't work with a 64-bit system, but the 64-bit is supposed to run faster.

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 4 GB of memory.
64-bit, definitely. I've had much better compatibility with older programs on my 64-bit 7 than I did on my 32-bit Vista. 7 has two program files now, one labeled Program Files (x86) and the other Program Files (x64). When I pop in the disc from a 32-bit program, it automatically suggests the x86 folder, and when I install a new 64-bit program, it suggests x64. Very smooth, much more so than Vista's "windows.old" system.
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