Author Topic: baptize only on easter?  (Read 2406 times)

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Offline pathofsolitude

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baptize only on easter?
« on: October 12, 2007, 10:29:15 AM »
Do the Oriental Orthodox churches baptize only on Easter? What other times of the year are people baptized? Are there any exceptions? Thanks.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 10:34:59 AM »
No, I have seen baptisms at other times of the year.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 10:46:49 PM »
Do the Oriental Orthodox churches baptize only on Easter? What other times of the year are people baptized? Are there any exceptions? Thanks.

I take it you mean non-infant baptism, since babies are baptized within a certain amount of time following their births, regardless of the time of the year.  Regarding other baptisms/chrismations, Orthodox churches are known to schedule them in conjunction with major feasts other than Pascha, feasts such as Christmas and Pentecost, for instance--I was chrismated during such a Pentecost feast.  Even then, I've known others in my parish who were baptized at odd times of the year and outside of any festal cycle.
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Offline Salpy

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2007, 12:14:54 AM »
I know that in the old days there was a tradition of baptizing at Easter.  But now they baptize throughout the year.  At least that is the case in the Armenian Church.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2007, 01:46:32 PM »
The only exception I know of is that no one can be baptized during a fast period--though I imagine there are exceptions to this exception for emergencies, like that the person is dying. Otherwise, any day is okay.
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Offline pathofsolitude

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2007, 02:30:55 PM »
Thanks for the replies.

What is the shortest time it could take for an adult to go through the catechumenal process? I understand that this is up to the priest's discretion. But assume that someone is knowledgeable in patristics and has been studying the Coptic church for a while. Is it possible for him to be baptized in, say, two months?

Another question. I have seen Copts perform some private baptisms in pictures and videos on the net. Or at least it looked like they were. Is it possible to choose to be baptized outside the liturgy?
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Offline Marc Hanna

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 05:42:56 PM »
It's too bad that no one ever replied to this last post.  It appears that this fellow stopped posting shortly afterward.

In the Coptic Church the catechumen process is not as refined as say the RC's or EO's typically have and in much of the world there isn't even a program in place.  The period of time for a catechumen could be hours, days, months or years:  the factors are too many to list.

As far as I know, baptisms are always performed with a liturgy, except in the event of emergency baptism.  This is partly because the new christian will also receive first communion that same day which must be done as part of a liturgy.

Offline Rosehip

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 08:59:26 PM »
The only exception I know of is that no one can be baptized during a fast period--though I imagine there are exceptions to this exception for emergencies, like that the person is dying. Otherwise, any day is okay.

Hmmm...I was baptized during a fasting period. In fact, I had requested that the priest wait to baptize me until after the fast, but he laughed and told me no such rule existed regarding baptism. Now I am confused. Oh well. Guess my baptism was legitimate anyhow.

I was baptized on a Saturday morning (no liturgy) and communed for the first time the next morning at liturgy.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 09:08:17 PM »
I had a similar experience at an Antiochian parish. I was chrismated on Dec. 22nd, which was a fasting day and a Saturday that year (2001). I then took communion the next day at the divine liturgy.
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Offline LBK

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 05:20:55 AM »
Orthodox Marriages cannot be conducted during a fasting period (except in extreme cases and with the permission of the local bishop), but there is no canonical impediment for baptisms during these times of the year.

Historically, baptisms were performed during a liturgy, but now this is rarely done. The usual practice is for a stand-alone baptism on a Friday or Saturday, then the newly-baptised receives his first communion during the Liturgy on Sunday. On occasion, a baptism is held on the Sunday morning before the liturgy commences, with communion received during the liturgy which immediately follows the baptism.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 08:27:21 AM »
Orthodox Marriages cannot be conducted during a fasting period (except in extreme cases and with the permission of the local bishop), but there is no canonical impediment for baptisms during these times of the year.

Historically, baptisms were performed during a liturgy, but now this is rarely done. The usual practice is for a stand-alone baptism on a Friday or Saturday, then the newly-baptised receives his first communion during the Liturgy on Sunday. On occasion, a baptism is held on the Sunday morning before the liturgy commences, with communion received during the liturgy which immediately follows the baptism.

???

First, the newly received Orthdox Christian partakes of their first communion at the end of the Baptismal service, thus making 3 sacraments in one shot (Baptism, Chrismation, Communion).  Any communion on a subsequent day is the second time.  At least this is the Greek practice.

Also, in some traditions there are days when Baptisms are not to be performed, including the period between Christmas and Epiphany (which I personally think is ridiculous, but I'm not in a position to change anything), and on weekdays in Great Lent.
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Offline Jonathan

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 08:59:35 AM »
(Coptic Church), traditionally not Easter, but Sunday before Easter (or was it one week earlier, the sunday before Palm Sunday?... I think so) was called "Baptism Sunday" so that the new Christians could participate in Holy Week and the Feast of the Resurrection.

I was never formally a Catechism, I just spent a little under a year asking my priest questions and going through stuff... When I was ready I asked about Catechism, and he said "I think we've done that", so about a month later I was Baptised.  It was on a Saturday during Lent.  The only time it can't be done is during Holy Week.

Baptism must be followed by the Liturgy so you can have communion.  However, you can have a private Liturgy if your priest agrees.  There must be the priest and at least one 'deacon' since every Liturgy must have at minimum one priest one deacon and at least one person in the congregation.  Your priest may or may not be willing to make it private depending on your reasons and his feelings.  (Yes, I know a private Liturgy is a contradiction, but if you just don't announce it and only the people involved show up, there can be good pastoral reasons for doing this...)

Keep in mind that if you pick a fasting day to be Baptised the Liturgy will be later in the day (traditionally 3:00 pm, often now around noon) and you'll have to fast from everything--even water from the night before until them.  On Saturdays, Sundays, and non-fasting periods you just have to fast until the Liturgy earlier in the morning.

For infants, males are traditionally baptised 40 days after birth, and females 80 days.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 09:05:06 AM »
Quote
For infants, males are traditionally baptised 40 days after birth, and females 80 days.

Why the difference for females, I wonder?
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Offline Marc Hanna

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2008, 01:49:35 PM »
It carries over from the Law of Moses and the period of "uncleanness" of the mother.  It is not strict , but rather just traditional, and helps the health of the mother by giving her a period of rest before she returns to church.  If the father takes the role of primary spiritual nurturer, then the baby may be baptized earlier.

Offline HaileAmanuel

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2008, 02:19:10 AM »
Peace to All,

It carries over from the Law of Moses and the period of "uncleanness" of the mother.  It is not strict , but rather just traditional, and helps the health of the mother by giving her a period of rest before she returns to church.

This of course, is correct, but I would like to add that the tradition of Baptizing Males (40 Days) and Females (80 Days) on these specific days came from the tradition that:

'after God created Adam, Adam ascended into Paradise in glory 40 days after his birth (or, creation out of the four physical elements and three elements of the soul).'  Eighty (80) days after Adam's ascension into Paradise, God caused him to be in a transic state (a state of sleep) and then God created Eve out of the side of Adam (this is the birth of Eve, from Adam).'

So, baptism is the re-birth of the person who receives it in faith. 

This is according to my little knowledge.  Therefore as Marc Hanna stated, the Mosaic Law incorporated these days as 'cleansing days' or 'new births'. 

CATECHIZING nowadays varies.  I understand that in the early Church, the Initiation of the the unbaptized (but learning) was like joining the imperial army, even much more concerning (of course), because once a person is baptized, he or she becomes a soldier in the heavenly army and is granted the most mysterious and precious helmet, shield, sword and armour--which comes from the Lord Himself.  It is a crowning and the person who was a candidate for baptism treasured this reception of the most holy mysteries in his or heavenly heart.

Does one think if he or she enters the imperial army, they will be immediately granted a knife, gun or even protective clothin?  Never. First they must prove themselves to the sergent or corporal that they are worthy to receive such precious tools and instruments. So, what about the eternal mysteries from the Father? Those mysteries that were paid for by the Father's only-begotten Son Jesus Christ?

Today, I personally have seen folks who want to be baptized on the spot, because they think that Orthodoxy is 'exotic' or receiving a baptismal name (a new name) is cool.  Some want to be unique in their social communities, so they beg to baptized and unfortunately, some bishops and priests baptize them, believing they are doing a great thing (by gaining a new member) or even for money.

This deserves excommunication: earthly and heavenly.

In the days of old, some candidates had to study for years, before the Catechist would consider them for baptism (of course, this excludes emergency situations).  This is how treasured the mysteries of Christ's Church were and are. 

About Orthodox Marriages and the Fast Period:

I believe that St. John Chrysostom commented on this, but for sure H.H. Pope Shenouda III lectured and wrote also, saying something like this:

It is ashame that nowadays, the candidates for marriage do not even fast like those in the olden days.  They rather feast and entertain their guests instead of entertaining their Lord, who they receive during the Liturgical Ceremony...

I believe that the tradition of NOT GETTING MARRIED DURING THE FAST PERIOD was due to the weakness of what we consider mondernists.  It is because most of us nowadays think about our carnal desires more than heavenly ones.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be physical intimacy between the blessed couple, but without any doubt, the tradition of FEAST DAY & NON-FAST DAY MARRIAGES is motivated by pleasing our earthly guests.

Anyway, if anyone is reading, I apologize for rambling on...

Peace,

haileAmanuel


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Offline Jonathan

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Re: baptize only on easter?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 09:09:03 AM »
Peace to All,

It is ashame that nowadays, the candidates for marriage do not even fast like those in the olden days.  They rather feast and entertain their guests instead of entertaining their Lord, who they receive during the Liturgical Ceremony...

I believe that the tradition of NOT GETTING MARRIED DURING THE FAST PERIOD was due to the weakness of what we consider mondernists.  It is because most of us nowadays think about our carnal desires more than heavenly ones.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be physical intimacy between the blessed couple, but without any doubt, the tradition of FEAST DAY & NON-FAST DAY MARRIAGES is motivated by pleasing our earthly guests.

Anyway, if anyone is reading, I apologize for rambling on...

Peace,

haileAmanuel


I don't think so... Marriage during fasting periods are not allowed because it would be strange for the church to marry them and ask them not to consummate their marriage until after a lengthy fast.  What H.H. is talking about is the tradition of fasting for a short time in preparation for marriage.