Poll

If you were  not an Orthodox Christian, which faith do you think you would be?

Catholic
57 (39.9%)
Evangelical Protestant
4 (2.8%)
not very liturgical Liberal Protestant
2 (1.4%)
Protestant with more of a liturgical bent
18 (12.6%)
Atheist
9 (6.3%)
Jew
11 (7.7%)
Muslim
9 (6.3%)
Other
33 (23.1%)

Total Members Voted: 143

Author Topic: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?  (Read 43276 times)

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Offline Pravoslavbob

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What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« on: October 09, 2007, 05:22:34 PM »
I thought that this might be an interesting poll.  I'd just like Orthodox people to respond to the poll please, though I suppose it would be interesting for others to make comments too.  It would be great if you told us why you decided on the option you did, and what you second choice might be. 

I chose Buddhist as my "other option".  This would have to be in a situation where there was no such thing as Orthodoxy, or if I just didn't know about it.  I know, I know, very hypothetical, or worse.  I'm not sure if my real answer might have been Catholic or Atheist.  But, I don't really have to choose, since this situation doesn't exist at all, right? 

Okay, I goofed.  I took out Buddhist by mistake.  Hey mods, can I modify this poll and put it back in?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 05:30:07 PM by Pravoslavbob »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 05:27:15 PM »
Zoroastrian
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 05:30:59 PM »
Zoroastrian

That's an interesting one that didn't come to mind right away.  ;)
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Offline Simayan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 05:31:52 PM »
Probably Catholic for me.
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 05:51:55 PM »
Atheist.
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Offline Sloga

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2007, 05:58:25 PM »
Messianic Judaism?
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Offline FrChris

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2007, 05:59:02 PM »
FatherChris-ism for me!

All other faiths are illusionary and made by individuals anyway; I might as well be honest about it and grab all the credit!  ;)
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Offline zebu

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 06:12:13 PM »
I probably would have become Mormon if it weren't for Orthodoxy. However, I doubt I would have stuck around very long because the Mormon culture and I do not mix well, so by this point I think I would have left the Church and reverted to the semi-liberal high church Protestantism of my youth.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 06:19:58 PM »
Zoroastrian
Interesting. I was very seriously considering Zoroastrianism when I encountered Orthodoxy. When you really look into it, there are many parallels between the two liturgies, such as the use of incense and the priestly blessings.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 06:22:41 PM »
First off, it would be very hard to choose a religion outside of what you're accustomed to thinking.  If no Orthodoxy, I'd preferably choose the next closest thing to Orthodoxy available.  If no Christianity at all, then I don't know.  I lean towards spiritual seeker, but I'd never be an atheist.  I'd look for a religion that claims to be the only True religion and investigate on that.  So that leaves out most of the Eastern religions as well.  I'd also try to look for a religion that is consistent with its past (which would be part of my investigation on finding this "one truth").

Where can you find all that?  If I can't, just a loaner worshiper.  Perhaps, Buddhism since it's technically a "religion" that doesn't claim truth or know truth.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 06:24:55 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 06:24:24 PM »
Junkian!

A-E-I-O-U!  And sometimes Y!

Gimmie a J!
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 06:24:59 PM »
I would probably go to one of the liberal mainline Protestant churches. They really do some wonderful charity work, I miss that a lot. Actually everything is great about them, except... they aren't really Church. On the other hand, Roman Catholic Church is, I believe, still Church (just Her somewhat "withered" branch, on its own will not quite connected with the Trunk), but I just do not know it at all, never been there and therefore probably would go mainline Protestant simply because I know something about those guys.
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Offline Nyssa The Hobbit

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 06:51:46 PM »
I picked not very liturgical liberal Protestant, because that's what I was (PCUSA) before Panagiotis posted something provocative on a forum I frequented.  After that, I got curious about this strange Orthodoxy.  :)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 06:52:57 PM by Nyssa The Hobbit »
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Offline prodromas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 07:13:20 PM »
I picked not very liturgical liberal Protestant, because that's what I was (PCUSA) before Panagiotis posted something provocative on a forum I frequented.  After that, I got curious about this strange Orthodoxy.  :)


Sorry Nyssa I don't want to sound like a stalker but you constantly refer to this post that Panagiotis made that changed your thoughts about Orthodoxy I would really like to hear what it is if its not private.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 08:39:34 PM »
I'd want move to England and belong to the CofE. I don't consider it a Protestant Church (so I had to pick "other"). And I would live in a rural parish which had a woman Priest.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 08:40:18 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2007, 10:08:06 PM »
I'd want move to England and belong to the CofE. I don't consider it a Protestant Church (so I had to pick "other"). And I would live in a rural parish which had a woman Priest.

And I'd join you!



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« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 10:08:32 PM by lubeltri »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2007, 10:11:04 PM »
George is the one second from the left.

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Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2007, 10:56:36 PM »
What's CofE?   ???
It's probably obvious and eveyone reading my post is saying, "Dah!"  :-[
Sorry, I am missing something  >:(
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 10:57:48 PM by BrotherAidan »

Offline Arystarcus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2007, 10:59:22 PM »
What's CofE?   ???

The Church of England.

Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2007, 11:10:36 PM »
Back to the OP
I would probably be the semi-agnostic, semi-evangelical, semi-liberal protestant attending a contemporary worship church, playing lead guitar (well, actually more atmospheric effects to stay out of the way of the other 2 guitarists and piano player) in the worship band - which is where/what I was doing before I became Orthodox

Sometimes some of the visuals that the computer art people would come across (usually icons or Christian art (I didn't know the difference back then) or sometimes the "drama team's" presentation would move me; occassionally the sermon did; rarely or never the extemporaneous prayers did - especially when it was "open" prayer and any jabroni could give his/her extemporaneous prayer - I just kept my eyes open and stared off into space or at the floor; the band was at least good and I enjoyed the "gig."

There was at least a bit of camaraderie among the worship team and sometimes I miss that. Unfortunately I have not found much camaraderie in Orthodoxy.

Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2007, 11:14:14 PM »
The Church of England.

DAH!  ???
Oh well.
yeah, there is a thought - an Anglo-Catholic episcopal parish would be an option if I was not Orthodox - I already had developed a personal congregationalism that enabled me to ignore the PCUAS as a denomination and consider myself only a member of my local congregation (which helps me now with the OCA scandal, BTW). I could have been in an Anglo-Catholic parish and ignored the broader Episcopal Church
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 11:15:15 PM by BrotherAidan »

Offline EofK

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2007, 11:17:04 PM »
My vote is for the liturgically minded protestant church, though in reality I'd probably not attend much.  Before I came to Orthodoxy I was close to giving up altogether.  I was hopping between a lot of Bapticostal churches at the time, with a few non-denom churches thrown in for good measure.  I did enjoy the Presbyterian church and was planning to try out the Anglican church if the Orthodox church didn't work out.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2007, 11:17:50 PM »
I'd definitely start my own religion revolving around me as some sort of savior.  But I wouldn't actually do anything.  I 'd just have people believe I do good things for them all the while I take their money and live the sweet life while they toil for me and beg me to bring them rain, give them food or a good life.  Yes, me-ism.  Bow down before your new god.

Of course this won't ever happen though I do confess to a lot of me-ism already.  Christ's promise is that the gates of Hades will never prevail against the Holy Orthodox Church so I don't think I need to come up with an alternative to it.
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Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2007, 11:23:56 PM »
I'd want move to England and belong to the CofE. I don't consider it a Protestant Church (so I had to pick "other"). And I would live in a rural parish which had a woman Priest.

Interesting that you say that! I also consider them not protestant also.
Most of the time in my waning days as an evangelical when most American evangelicals made me want to vomit (literally). people like John Stott, Os Guiness, Dorothy Sayer, C.S. Lewis, and Madeleine L'Engle (american episcopalian) kept me sane and my food down!

In a sense I consider Anglicans non-canonical western orthodox. I think alot of the Russian emigree in Paris did too. Had it not been for the liberals and the World Council of Churches and liberal protestant ecumenism, the rapproachment of the early 20th century between Orthodox and Anglican(for instance the fellowship of St. Sergius and St. Alban) might have borne some great fruit

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2007, 11:24:31 PM »
Not an easy choice but given my affinity for the Arabic culture as well as all things Eastern, I'd probably choose Sufism with a bit of Buddhism mixed in. Just add Christ and you have Eastern Orthodoxy (not really, but close). Having already tried Islam for about 10 yrs, there are things I appreciate about it but cannot accept (even before I discovered Eastern Orthodoxy). The Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism to the rest of y'all) is very intriguing. In fact, Hinduism was a stepping stone for me to Eastern Orthodoxy.
Of coarse, the answer/choice assumes there were no Jesus the Christ.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:27:04 AM by Jibrail Almuhajir »
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2007, 11:29:42 PM »
Well, if I hadn't discovered the Orthodox Church during my brief venture into Catholicism, I most probably would have pursued Confirmation in the Catholic Church eventually.
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Offline Tamara

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2007, 01:01:01 AM »
Byzantine Catholic...growing up Orthodox I can't imagine being anywhere else...

Offline lubeltri

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2007, 01:22:16 AM »
My serious answer---I would definitely join the Orthodox Church (a Western Orthodox parish, if possible). Failing that, I would likely jump into the alphabet soup of Continuing Anglicanism, settling into a nice conservative Anglo-Catholic parish. I almost did that before I became a Catholic---my confirmation was only weeks away before I backed off. I also flirted with Orthodoxy for a time.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:23:13 AM by lubeltri »

Offline Fr. David

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2007, 02:53:33 AM »
This being Ft. Worth, I'd be right at home in one of the very conservative, high-church Episcopalian parishes under Bp. Iker.  They believe in the Real Presence, and I could still have contact with some kind of sacramental something.

That's if I had to leave the Church for some weird reason NOW.  Which is how I voted.  Had I not left my former confession I'd be a Bapticostal still, or probably just a good, semi-reformed, Baptist Boy, who'd gone out to do mission work in Latin America.

That was the plan, anyway.
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Offline Leumas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2007, 09:51:12 AM »
What an interesting question. Since I am not Orthodox ... I think I'll be Orthodox if I wasn't non-Orthodox (not sure if it would be correct to say I am "Protestant", probably?).
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Offline jaderook

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2007, 11:28:26 AM »
I'd be a Deist with Taoist leanings.

Offline aserb

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2007, 02:16:28 PM »
Sufi Islam
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 02:19:33 PM »
Anglo-Catholic.  Unfortunately, unlike Rdr. David, I'd be stuck in the low church Diocese of West Texas rather than the Diocese of Ft. Worth. :(
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Offline Schultz

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 02:25:20 PM »
I'm not Orthodox, but if I were not a Christian, I'd most likely be a zen buddhist, although since I've been living among Orthodox Jews for the past year or so, I might at least explore that religion. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 02:26:45 PM by Schultz »
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 03:05:27 PM »
Taoist or Hindhu
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline TinaG

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 03:46:11 PM »
Byzantine Catholic...growing up Orthodox I can't imagine being anywhere else...

Guess it'd have to be Byz Catholic as well.  Though I didn't grow up Orthodox, I have burned my protestant bridges and found my home.

However, I've always had this weird fascination with paganism.  Guess it's their emphasis on nature and our connection to it.  Maybe Neo British witchcraft, minus all the man-hating and anything goes sexuality.   The only problem once you get past the surface, is how lonely this faith must be, along with any other non-theistic faith.  Buddhism or Taoism for example.   There is no deity, no God to focus on and be loved by. 
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2007, 03:52:36 PM »
Guess it'd have to be Byz Catholic as well.  Though I didn't grow up Orthodox, I have burned my protestant bridges and found my home.

However, I've always had this weird fascination with paganism.  Guess it's their emphasis on nature and our connection to it.  Maybe Neo British witchcraft, minus all the man-hating and anything goes sexuality.   The only problem once you get past the surface, is how lonely this faith must be, along with any other non-theistic faith.  Buddhism or Taoism for example.   There is no deity, no God to focus on and be loved by. 

Taoism not theistic?  New one on me.  I have always seen the Tao as the same as the Logos.  Most Chinese Christians that I know see it the same way. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2007, 04:06:45 PM »
Taoism not theistic?  New one on me.  I have always seen the Tao as the same as the Logos.  Most Chinese Christians that I know see it the same way. 

Very interesting. 
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2007, 04:12:29 PM »
Tao=The Way

sound familiar?
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2007, 04:13:53 PM »
Very interesting. 

A good friend of mine here at work is a Chinese Christian.  He is the first one to show me this.  In his Chinese Bible, the first words of John "In the begining was the Word . . ." , the Chinese characters say "Before anything was, there was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God."  This mans Uncle was also a master of I Ching, who later became Christian because "The I Ching brough me close to God.  But there was a great gulf between me and God that could only be bridged by Jesus Christ."  I have also read that Lao Tsu had said that the Tao was not able to be understood by man.  But one day the Tao would come and walk among us so that we would understand the Tao.  What could be closer than the Logos?  Perhaps a Chinese prophecy to prepare the people for Christ?
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2007, 04:20:22 PM »
A good friend of mine here at work is a Chinese Christian.  He is the first one to show me this.  In his Chinese Bible, the first words of John "In the begining was the Word . . ." , the Chinese characters say "Before anything was, there was the Tao, and the Tao was with God, and the Tao was God."  This mans Uncle was also a master of I Ching, who later became Christian because "The I Ching brough me close to God.  But there was a great gulf between me and God that could only be bridged by Jesus Christ."  I have also read that Lao Tsu had said that the Tao was not able to be understood by man.  But one day the Tao would come and walk among us so that we would understand the Tao.  What could be closer than the Logos?  Perhaps a Chinese prophecy to prepare the people for Christ?

Personally, I know little about this, but I know others who have said very similar things.  Very interesting indeed.  Thanks for bringing this up.
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2007, 04:26:33 PM »
Guess it'd have to be Byz Catholic as well.  Though I didn't grow up Orthodox, I have burned my protestant bridges and found my home.

However, I've always had this weird fascination with paganism.  Guess it's their emphasis on nature and our connection to it.  Maybe Neo British witchcraft, minus all the man-hating and anything goes sexuality.   The only problem once you get past the surface, is how lonely this faith must be, along with any other non-theistic faith.  Buddhism or Taoism for example.   There is no deity, no God to focus on and be loved by. 

I can certainly understand the interest in paganism, since I have long worked as a naturalist.  I chose Buddhism as my "second choice" to Orthodoxy since there is a similar emphasis on an apophatic approach to spirituality in many ways.  However, I agree with you too in some respects.  Ultimately, there really is no concept of the person in Buddhism as far as I can tell, and that I would find strange.
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2007, 04:29:12 PM »
I'd definitely start my own religion revolving around me as some sort of savior.  But I wouldn't actually do anything.  I 'd just have people believe I do good things for them all the while I take their money and live the sweet life while they toil for me and beg me to bring them rain, give them food or a good life.  Yes, me-ism.  Bow down before your new god.

Methinks that you and Fr. Chris are on to something here....... ;)
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2007, 04:41:50 PM »
I like a lot of the philosophy from the classical era of Islam (Ibn Arabi, Rumi for example).  The sort of idea that philosophy is the true religion and religions themselves are simply manifestations of that for the masses.  I also am interested (not sure if I entirely agree with though ) philosophers like René Guénon.  My signature betrays my liking of Schiller and European culture, literature and philosophy of that time.  I guess that would leave me a secular humanist of sorts with a strong theistic leaning. 

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2007, 04:47:11 PM »
Quote
Taoism not theistic?  New one on me.  I have always seen the Tao as the same as the Logos.  Most Chinese Christians that I know see it the same way.

The big difference isn't so much one of theism or not, but that to many Taoists the idea of Tao is a very impersonal force rather than the personal God of the Abrahamic faiths.  But if the Greek philosophical concept of the logos can be adapted to Christianity, then why not Taoism?

Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2007, 06:37:36 PM »
The big difference isn't so much one of theism or not, but that to many Taoists the idea of Tao is a very impersonal force rather than the personal God of the Abrahamic faiths.  But if the Greek philosophical concept of the logos can be adapted to Christianity, then why not Taoism?

I get what you are saying with the personal vs. the impersonal.  From what I have seen, the Tao as spoken of in the ancient writings is an impersonal force.  It seems like Lao Tsu was longing for it to become personal, much like Abraham.  The later Taoists kept the Tao impersonal, much like the Jews had made God impersonal at the time of Christ.  It seems like Jesus coming down to earth was the fulfillment of what both Abraham and Lao Tsu sought.

I have also read the writings of Sadhu Sundar Singh, a Sikh who converted to Christianity.  I believe that many of the ancient religions pointed to Christ, and that Christ was the fulfillment of these religions.  I could never get excited about Islam when reading since by the time of Mohammed, the perfect had already come and there was no need for anything new.  While the Gitas and the Tao Te Ching and I Ching stirred something in my soul, no different than reading the Wisdom and Praise books of the Old Testament, the Islamic writings left me cold.  The former sparked my soul as written by those searching for the truth.  The later as written by those who missed it.

Just my observation and not a judgement of anyone.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2007, 06:39:10 PM »
Dude...muslim for sure.  Are you telling me you'd pass up on an undisclosed amount of virgins for eternity?  Who would pass THAT up?   ;) ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2007, 06:41:45 PM »
Sorry Nyssa I don't want to sound like a stalker but you constantly refer to this post that Panagiotis made that changed your thoughts about Orthodoxy I would really like to hear what it is if its not private.

I do?  I thought this was the first time....

Anyway, it was about the problems with Evangelicalism, when I was in the middle of researching various theologies (and getting out of Evangelicalism).  He didn't change my thoughts about Orthodoxy, but rather got me curious about it.  (I didn't have any thoughts about it before.)  I asked him a whole list of questions about the Orthodox view on various theological issues I'd been struggling with.

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2007, 07:02:49 PM »
Thanks Nyssa, I didn't mean you constantly bring it up its just I randomly was surfing through an older thread and you mentioned the same change of mind by a poster called panajotis. An interesting thing I read about that in the
Hindu scriptures there are clear cut scriptures that refer to Jesus e.g

Verse 31:

Yeesh moorti parapta nitya shuddha shivakari:

Yeesha masih itticha mam nama prathishtatham

Translation:

The revelation of God who is eternal, Holy, Compassionate and giver of salvation; who dwells within our heart is manifested. His name is yeesha Masih [Jesus Christ].

The crown of thorns was placed on his head: “The sacrificial victim is to be crowned with a crown made of thorny vines” (Rigveda 10.90.7, 15).

His clothes were divided among those who offered him. “After death, His clothes are to be divided among the offerors” (Ithareya Brahmanam).

The person tied to a wooden cross: “His hands and legs are to be bound to a yoopa (a wooden pole) causing blood shed” (Brhadaranyaka Upanishad, 3.9.28).

While the victim was at his greatest agony on the cross, he was given a herbal drink which had an intoxicating effect: “Before death, He should be given a drink of somarasa” [an intoxicating herbal juice] (Yajur Veda 31).

Though the victim was hung on the wooden cross, none of his bones were broken: “None of His bones be broken” (Ithareya Brahmanam 2.6).

If you want to be delivered from the sin which you commit through eyes, mouth, ears and mind, bloodshed is necessary.  Without shedding the blood, there is no remission for sin. That must be the blood of the Holy one.  God is our creator.  He is our King.  When we were perishing, He came to save us by offering even his own body on our behalf. (Maha Brahmanam 4.15)

God is the ruler of people.  He will offer His body as a sacrifice, for His people; for the remission of their sins (Sama veda, part 2, Thandiya Maha Brahmanam).


I thought this was really evidence for pre-information to humanity not just the chosen to know the prophecy.
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2007, 07:21:14 PM »
Dude...muslim for sure.  Are you telling me you'd pass up on an undisclosed amount of virgins for eternity?  Who would pass THAT up?   ;) ;D

The problem is those blasted mystics ruined it and made it into a metaphor.  What a way to ruin a good thing.  And while 72 women may start off as paradise, it would quickly become HELL.  I'm in trouble more often than not when dating just one woman at a time...

Offline John of the North

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2007, 07:31:22 PM »
The problem is those blasted mystics ruined it and made it into a metaphor.  What a way to ruin a good thing.  And while 72 women may start off as paradise, it would quickly become HELL.  I'm in trouble more often than not when dating just one woman at a time...

Okay, this has to be the funniest post on here in absolute ages!
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2007, 07:39:39 PM »
I get what you are saying with the personal vs. the impersonal.  From what I have seen, the Tao as spoken of in the ancient writings is an impersonal force.  It seems like Lao Tsu was longing for it to become personal, much like Abraham.  The later Taoists kept the Tao impersonal, much like the Jews had made God impersonal at the time of Christ.  It seems like Jesus coming down to earth was the fulfillment of what both Abraham and Lao Tsu sought.

I have also read the writings of Sadhu Sundar Singh, a Sikh who converted to Christianity.  I believe that many of the ancient religions pointed to Christ, and that Christ was the fulfillment of these religions.  I could never get excited about Islam when reading since by the time of Mohammed, the perfect had already come and there was no need for anything new.  While the Gitas and the Tao Te Ching and I Ching stirred something in my soul, no different than reading the Wisdom and Praise books of the Old Testament, the Islamic writings left me cold.  The former sparked my soul as written by those searching for the truth.  The later as written by those who missed it.

Just my observation and not a judgement of anyone.

If you haven't read it already, I think you'd really enjoy the book Christ the Eternal Tao that is published by St. Herman's press.  While it focuses just on ancient Taoism, the central theme is that many pre-Christian religions were prophetic in their own right and can be used in the same way Greek philosophy was in evangelizing the Roman Empire.  That is why I've always like the hymnography for Christmas, especially "Those who worshiped the stars were taught by a star to worship Thee, the Sun of Righteousness."

I take the same view you take of pre-Christian religion towards much of Islam because for many Muslims there was no possible chance of them being exposed to Christianity.  While it may have existed it some parts of the world, a poet born in the heart of Central Asia during its glory days would really have had no authentic exposure to Christianity.  So in that sense the longing for Christ is apparent ( at least to me), despite it being written long after the coming of Christ. 

Offline Brigidsboy

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2007, 08:26:30 PM »
Catholic, of a traditional variety.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2007, 09:40:11 PM »
  And while 72 women may start off as paradise, it would quickly become HELL.  I'm in trouble more often than not when dating just one woman at a time...
Amin!  ;) When I was a practicing Muslim, some of my old buddies would ask me if I planned on having more than one wife and I'd tell them that I can barely manage one, why would I want to bring in more trouble?  ;D No offence to the ladies here!!
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2007, 10:01:29 PM »
Amin!  ;) When I was a practicing Muslim, some of my old buddies would ask me if I planned on having more than one wife and I'd tell them that I can barely manage one, why would I want to bring in more trouble?  ;D No offence to the ladies here!!

None taken!  This is wisdom... as in you know what's good for you.   ;) :D
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2007, 10:05:38 PM »
None taken!  This is wisdom... as in you know what's good for you.   ;) :D
And how!!  :'(
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2007, 10:08:51 PM »
Thanks Nyssa, I didn't mean you constantly bring it up its just I randomly was surfing through an older thread and you mentioned the same change of mind by a poster called panajotis. An interesting thing I read about that in the
Hindu scriptures there are clear cut scriptures that refer to Jesus e.g

Verse 31:

Yeesh moorti parapta nitya shuddha shivakari:

Yeesha masih itticha mam nama prathishtatham

Translation:

The revelation of God who is eternal, Holy, Compassionate and giver of salvation; who dwells within our heart is manifested. His name is yeesha Masih [Jesus Christ].

The crown of thorns was placed on his head: “The sacrificial victim is to be crowned with a crown made of thorny vines” (Rigveda 10.90.7, 15).

His clothes were divided among those who offered him. “After death, His clothes are to be divided among the offerors” (Ithareya Brahmanam).

The person tied to a wooden cross: “His hands and legs are to be bound to a yoopa (a wooden pole) causing blood shed” (Brhadaranyaka Upanishad, 3.9.28).

While the victim was at his greatest agony on the cross, he was given a herbal drink which had an intoxicating effect: “Before death, He should be given a drink of somarasa” [an intoxicating herbal juice] (Yajur Veda 31).

Though the victim was hung on the wooden cross, none of his bones were broken: “None of His bones be broken” (Ithareya Brahmanam 2.6).

If you want to be delivered from the sin which you commit through eyes, mouth, ears and mind, bloodshed is necessary.  Without shedding the blood, there is no remission for sin. That must be the blood of the Holy one.  God is our creator.  He is our King.  When we were perishing, He came to save us by offering even his own body on our behalf. (Maha Brahmanam 4.15)

God is the ruler of people.  He will offer His body as a sacrifice, for His people; for the remission of their sins (Sama veda, part 2, Thandiya Maha Brahmanam).


I thought this was really evidence for pre-information to humanity not just the chosen to know the prophecy.

Prodromas,

You've suddenly given me a real interest in studying Hinduism.  Do you know a good book that talks about these prophecies?  Plus, don't get me wrong when I question you, but sometimes when I read things like these, they can be exciting, but they can also be either brought by someone who is misleading or deceiving or changing words around.  Again, please don't take this the wrong way, but some verifiable research I suppose would help me out on this.

God bless you.
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Offline serb1389

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2007, 10:09:30 PM »
The problem is those blasted mystics ruined it and made it into a metaphor.  What a way to ruin a good thing.  And while 72 women may start off as paradise, it would quickly become HELL.  I'm in trouble more often than not when dating just one woman at a time...

So what you are saying is that every relationship is doomed to hell-dom?   ;D ;D

Dude..i'm willing to take the risks...lol.   ;) ;D

Plus muslim culture is all about the man being the dominant one...i'm guessing that carries over in the afterlife...hopefully... ;D ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2007, 10:13:42 PM »
So what you are saying is that every relationship is doomed to hell-dom?   ;D ;D

Dude..i'm willing to take the risks...lol.   ;) ;D

Well dealing with one at a time is possible.  But 72 at once?!?!?!

Quote
Plus muslim culture is all about the man being the dominant one...i'm guessing that carries over in the afterlife...hopefully... ;D ;D

All is lost by now.  They've translated Gloria Steinem into Arabic. 

Offline serb1389

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2007, 10:17:09 PM »
Well dealing with one at a time is possible.  But 72 at once?!?!?!


Dude...i'm the master of disaster... ;) ;D  PM me about it if you feel like a fun conversation. 

All is lost by now.  They've translated Gloria Steinem into Arabic. 

Dude...so what!  lol!  I have faith in our ever-traditional brethren of the East.  If I didn't I wouldn't have picked Islam.   ;) ;D ;D
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Offline aurelia

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2007, 10:46:38 PM »
If Oral Roberts can do it so can I. 

God has told me that I will be struck by lightning unless I raise 50 bazillion dollars for the Fund for the Former Orthodox Who Are Now Self Dieties.  Open your wallets and send it to me!

ok, now that i am going to hell officially, probably CofE or some such thing, or back to non practicing Methodist.  Or some non denominational gig.

Offline TinaG

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2007, 10:58:01 PM »
Dude...muslim for sure.  Are you telling me you'd pass up on an undisclosed amount of virgins for eternity?  Who would pass THAT up?   ;) ;D


Oh so many replies............but all of them unsuitable for this forum.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2007, 11:14:09 PM »

Oh so many replies............but all of them unsuitable for this forum.

Great observation.
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Offline TinaG

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2007, 11:44:17 PM »
I really must read Christ the Eternal Tao before I have too much of an opinion, but in reading the I Ching and the early taoist poets, etc., looking at modern taoism or in my practice of chinese martial arts, I believe it's a big stretch to find the hidden Christ in the Tao.  There is no personal sense of deity in the Tao; any deities or demons are semi-gods created by the tao and acting within its principals.   Just my opinion, but I think there is a little bit of wishful thinking going on.   Good and evil, death, charity, illness - all are the homeostatic workings of the tao.  The universe and its inhabitants were brought into existence by tao and are eternally working towards balance and in death, spiritual perfection and absorption into the universe.  I think taoism has more in common with a personal development self-help course than Christianity, since life is more about achieving balance through good deeds than selfless love of everyone, even our enemies.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2007, 11:54:44 PM »
Then you must read the book. I procrastinated for a long time, then after finally reading it I was really peeved that I delayed.
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Offline TinaG

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #65 on: October 11, 2007, 12:11:04 AM »
Then you must read the book. I procrastinated for a long time, then after finally reading it I was really peeved that I delayed.

I will take your recommendation.  It's been on the short list of must get books but will be on a much much longer list of books that I must finish first.  I wish I could speed read with comprehension and retention. 
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #66 on: October 11, 2007, 12:16:17 AM »
Quote
I think taoism has more in common with a personal development self-help course than Christianity, since life is more about achieving balance through good deeds than selfless love of everyone, even our enemies.

That is more of the version of "Eastern religions" that is packaged to sell to aging hippies in the West.  The real thing has a serious ethical and moral philosophy, not just the  "what can I do to feel good about myself today" mentality. 

Offline Nyssa The Hobbit

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #67 on: October 11, 2007, 06:58:14 PM »
Okay, this has to be the funniest post on here in absolute ages!

Possibly.  Here I'm feeling rather icky at the moment, and it still made me laugh.  :)
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #68 on: October 11, 2007, 11:53:43 PM »
I'd be a Deist with Taoist leanings.
Wow!  I love the alliteration. ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #69 on: October 12, 2007, 12:46:57 AM »
I'd take up writing the Orange Catholic Bible like in the Dune series by Frank Herbert, and try to become the Quizats Haddarac!

But seriously, I think my leanings would be a combo of Zorastrian/Catholic/ and Buhddist.  I'd have an awesome prayer cornertempleshrineziggarit.!  ;D
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2007, 09:24:56 AM »
If you haven't read it already, I think you'd really enjoy the book Christ the Eternal Tao that is published by St. Herman's press.  While it focuses just on ancient Taoism, the central theme is that many pre-Christian religions were prophetic in their own right and can be used in the same way Greek philosophy was in evangelizing the Roman Empire.  That is why I've always like the hymnography for Christmas, especially "Those who worshiped the stars were taught by a star to worship Thee, the Sun of Righteousness."

I take the same view you take of pre-Christian religion towards much of Islam because for many Muslims there was no possible chance of them being exposed to Christianity.  While it may have existed it some parts of the world, a poet born in the heart of Central Asia during its glory days would really have had no authentic exposure to Christianity.  So in that sense the longing for Christ is apparent ( at least to me), despite it being written long after the coming of Christ. 

Very interesting perspective.  I agree with your view that a Muslim could long for Christ through Islam.  I was looking more at the insights to be gained by the writings.  I am often told that I should not read "non-Christian" writings since they are imperfect.  I am told this by the same people who read the Old Testament.  I have always considered the Vedas and other ancient writings no different than the Old Testament since they pointed the people to the coming Christ.  Islam, on the other hand, is a post Christian Heresy.  Your perspective on the matter will cause me to reconsider my position.
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2007, 09:27:43 AM »
That is more of the version of "Eastern religions" that is packaged to sell to aging hippies in the West.  The real thing has a serious ethical and moral philosophy, not just the  "what can I do to feel good about myself today" mentality. 

For that matter, that is all that most "Christianity" has become.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2007, 11:29:24 AM »
I'd take up writing the Orange Catholic Bible like in the Dune series by Frank Herbert, and try to become the Quizats Haddarac!


Well, that was going to be one of the fundamental tenets of FrChris-ism (tm). We'll just spell it better and say that we're the real Quisatz Haderach, and any other group is schismatic. ;)
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2007, 11:39:29 AM »
Well, that was going to be one of the fundamental tenets of FrChris-ism (tm). We'll just spell it better and say that we're the real Quisatz Haderach, and any other group is schismatic. ;)

We'd do you one better and spell it Kwisatz Haderach.
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Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #74 on: October 12, 2007, 11:53:37 AM »
And just like that, we already have a schism!
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2007, 12:16:15 PM »
Well, that was going to be one of the fundamental tenets of FrChris-ism (tm). We'll just spell it better and say that we're the real Quisatz Haderach, and any other group is schismatic. ;)

  :o :o :o :o ;)
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Offline FrChris

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #76 on: October 12, 2007, 12:24:16 PM »
^^Well, since I was reply #6, it's obvious that Ian Lazarus' schismatic cult broke away from me.

Especially since a section of the Orange Catholic Bible will show the Archangel Gabriel visiting me, and giving me special glasses so that it was revealed to me the correct spelling!

Thus sayeth the FrChris!
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #77 on: October 12, 2007, 12:45:55 PM »
"Infidel Defilers!  They shall all drown in lakes of Blood.  Now they know why they are afraid of the dark.  Now they will learn why they fear the night"

Oops.  That was Thulsa Doom.

Archangels?  Don't you mean Shai Hulud?  Heretic!  Be shunned! ;D ;D

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Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #78 on: October 12, 2007, 12:50:31 PM »
"Infidel Defilers!  They shall all drown in lakes of Blood.  Now they know why they are afraid of the dark.  Now they will learn why they fear the night"

Oops.  That was Thulsa Doom.

Archangels?  Don't you mean Shai Hulud?  Heretic!  Be shunned! ;D ;D

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                       -Orange Catholic Bible ;)

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Offline FrChris

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #79 on: October 12, 2007, 12:53:37 PM »
Quote
"Infidel Defilers!  They shall all drown in lakes of Blood.  Now they know why they are afraid of the dark.  Now they will learn why they fear the night"

Oops.  That was Thulsa Doom.

Archangels?  Don't you mean Shai Hulud?  Heretic!  Be shunned! 

"Thou shalt not taint the soul"
                       -Orange Catholic Bible

^^Hmm...my Gabriel-given spectacles don't seem to show these verses that you must be fabricating.

Next thing we know you'll be proclaiming yourself as the Vicar of the Kwisatz Haderach (note the schismatic spelling) and that, only under certain conditions which you promise you won't use too often (but often enough to make use of this ability), you can speak infallibly on certain topics...

perhaps we shouldn't give this thread too great a detour.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 12:54:45 PM by FrChris »
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2007, 12:59:22 PM »
Yeah, your probably right.  A truce.

50 Lashes! ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2007, 01:01:52 PM »
I pity the innocent lurker or inquirer reading this thread...
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #82 on: October 12, 2007, 01:03:10 PM »
No such thing as an innocent lurker.

Just go to some garage sales sometime. ;)
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Offline Punch

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #83 on: October 12, 2007, 01:04:21 PM »
I pity the innocent lurker or inquirer reading this thread...

There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2007, 01:27:08 PM »
There is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.

Like we say at work...

"All defendants are guilty...period.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be defendants, would they?" :P
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2007, 01:53:34 PM »
Like we say at work...

"All defendants are guilty...period.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be defendants, would they?" :P

An advantage of the historical development in Scots law, replacing 'Guilty' and 'Not Guilty' with 'Proven' and 'Not Proven', though only the latter has survived into modern law. It doesn't really matter if the person is guilty, what matters is whether or not the case is proven.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #86 on: October 12, 2007, 01:59:44 PM »
You sound like our PA senior senator, but I can't 'go there' here...
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2007, 01:11:03 AM »
Well, I am in agreement that this has been one of the most entertining threads here in a long while

Offline EofK

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2007, 08:24:35 AM »
Yay!  Dunecat.   :)

Quote
An advantage of the historical development in Scots law, replacing 'Guilty' and 'Not Guilty' with 'Proven' and 'Not Proven', though only the latter has survived into modern law. It doesn't really matter if the person is guilty, what matters is whether or not the case is proven.

Interesting.  The declaration may not have survived, but the mindset certainly has.  Here in the US we seem to have a weird mix of "Proven" meaning "Guilty" anyway. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 08:30:34 AM by EofK »
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Offline aurelia

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2007, 09:55:40 AM »
EofK --omg, lmao, where did you find that pic in your av? got a bigger copy? It would be great to post on another forum in our cat pics section. (hows that for off topic)

Offline wynd

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2007, 11:32:16 AM »
I thought that this might be an interesting poll.  I'd just like Orthodox people to respond to the poll please, though I suppose it would be interesting for others to make comments too.  It would be great if you told us why you decided on the option you did, and what you second choice might be. 

I chose Buddhist as my "other option".  This would have to be in a situation where there was no such thing as Orthodoxy, or if I just didn't know about it.  I know, I know, very hypothetical, or worse.  I'm not sure if my real answer might have been Catholic or Atheist.  But, I don't really have to choose, since this situation doesn't exist at all, right? 

Okay, I goofed.  I took out Buddhist by mistake.  Hey mods, can I modify this poll and put it back in?

I voted Catholic. I grew up non-practicing Catholic and started going to church again when I got to college (the opposite of a lot of people, I know), so as other people posted, that's what I'd be if I hadn't found Orthodoxy. :)

Offline stashko

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2007, 02:30:18 PM »
i would be either  a Jehovah's wittness or a morman,,to me they are the nicest people of faith to ever cross my path...as a kid i use to attend a kingdom hall ...also in Utah when my motor cycle broke down it was the mormans that helped....God Bless them Both...they left me good memories...stashko
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 02:42:18 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline pathofsolitude

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2007, 03:33:04 PM »
This is a neat topic.

If I didnt believe in the Lord Jesus I would form a religion similar to Islam. But I wouldnt fake any revelations like Mohammed did. The primary doctrine would be that God is one hypostasis and one prosopon. And there would be a strict monastic life.
The great apostasy has occured. Get out of there while you can!!! Its better to be priestless than to have a heretic bishop. The apostles taught that the church consists of saints only. There are about 7,000 Spirit-bearers currently in the catacombs.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2007, 08:30:13 PM »
So if you weren't inventing your own personal form of Christianity, you'd be forming your own personal form of Islam. Hmm. It seems you just don't want to be bothered by having to be kind to anyone.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2007, 08:34:17 PM »
This is a neat topic.

If I didnt believe in the Lord Jesus I would form a religion similar to Islam. But I wouldnt fake any revelations like Mohammed did. The primary doctrine would be that God is one hypostasis and one prosopon. And there would be a strict monastic life.

HAHAHA Pathofsolitude do you actually listen to yourself your post is pretty much the same to your position now and to quote out of context " Pathofsolitude hast abolished God and made himself in His stead". Do you understand how close you sound to the people that actually create there own religions! they say that they have some special gift (for you its the "holy spirit") and then blather on about how no religion is right and only you are? Is it just me or do you see the pattern!?
The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

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Offline pathofsolitude

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2007, 09:25:33 AM »
HAHAHA Pathofsolitude do you actually listen to yourself your post is pretty much the same to your position now and to quote out of context " Pathofsolitude hast abolished God and made himself in His stead". Do you understand how close you sound to the people that actually create there own religions! they say that they have some special gift (for you its the "holy spirit") and then blather on about how no religion is right and only you are? Is it just me or do you see the pattern!?

This is funny. I wonder if you would say the same thing to FRChris [see the first page I think] who jokingly said he would "create" his own religion. Even I didnt say I would "create" a religion. I just said I would form [by "form" I mean "organize" etc] a religion which would basically be based on obvious principles. I even added that I would "not fake any revelations like Mohammed did." Okay so much for your polemic.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 09:26:53 AM by pathofsolitude »
The great apostasy has occured. Get out of there while you can!!! Its better to be priestless than to have a heretic bishop. The apostles taught that the church consists of saints only. There are about 7,000 Spirit-bearers currently in the catacombs.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2007, 04:01:43 PM »
Ah, but Fr. Chris's point is that there is only one true religion, and that all others are really self-serving. The spirit of his post is much different than the spirit of yours is. Here's his post again for those who don't want to search for it.

FatherChris-ism for me!

All other faiths are illusionary and made by individuals anyway; I might as well be honest about it and grab all the credit!  ;)
See? This is a very Orthodox principle. Orthodoxy is the Way. All other faiths, well-intentioned though they may be, are man-made. For as much as you seem to be interested in the one right way to believe, you seem to have missed that. It's all around you, if you are Orthodox. Every Liturgy you pray shows you God's glory; every Confession you make brings you closer to Christlikeness. Instead of spurning "religion" and "society" and whatever else you think you don't like, take a look at true religion, true Christian koinonia. It's beautiful.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline admiralnick

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2007, 06:56:55 PM »
If not orthodox, I'd of course join the most liberal catholic church I could find. If not that, then Pastafarianism it shall be for me. All hail the Holy Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and curse those infadels of the Church of the Soaring Fettucini Creature!

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2007, 10:53:59 PM »
If not orthodox, I'd of course join the most liberal catholic church I could find. If not that, then Pastafarianism it shall be for me. All hail the Holy Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and curse those infadels of the Church of the Soaring Fettucini Creature!

-nick

You heretic!  I am of the Alfredo baptized denomination of the CSFC!  I take that personally!  :police: (just wanted to use the police smiley face...no reason whatsoever)
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2007, 11:06:36 PM »
If we are to assume that Orthodoxy is the only True Religion and the Fullness of Faith, if the were no Orthodoxy, there would be no true representation of the divine on on Earth; would we not then be compeled to accept that there is no divine presence on earth and thus no divine? Atheism is the only logical faith under the assumptions of Orthodox Theology, were the same not to exist. ;)
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #100 on: November 13, 2007, 11:23:29 PM »
If we are to assume that Orthodoxy is the only True Religion and the Fullness of Faith, if the were no Orthodoxy, there would be no true representation of the divine on on Earth; would we not then be compeled to accept that there is no divine presence on earth and thus no divine? Atheism is the only logical faith under the assumptions of Orthodox Theology, were the same not to exist. ;)

Interesting question. I wonder though, if we understand Orthodoxy (or whatever) to be the fullness of God's Revelation of God to the world, if the God does not reveal Himself, why should Atheism automatically be the only choice? All that we could logically conclude is that "no deity has revealed Itself to us".
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #101 on: November 14, 2007, 01:17:59 AM »

Interesting question. I wonder though, if we understand Orthodoxy (or whatever) to be the fullness of God's Revelation of God to the world, if the God does not reveal Himself, why should Atheism automatically be the only choice? All that we could logically conclude is that "no deity has revealed Itself to us".
In which case, we'd be agnostic, not atheist.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2007, 01:41:07 AM »
In which case, we'd be agnostic, not atheist.

That would probably be me, since I would have come to a certain thought process of what a true religion should entail, and yet it is not available.  Nevertheless, I would say that as an agnostic, I would tend to lean towards atheism, since I would end up to fail finding this one true religion.  As many would say it best, atheism is not necessarily believing in no god, but the lack of belief in one.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #103 on: November 14, 2007, 02:42:43 AM »
Well personally I'd follow pathofsolitude in a religion, because if I was (not) Orthodox I think that he/she has a fairly good grasp of things. I mean he/she has the holy spirit and I can't argue with that.
Sorry for the confusion Peter.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 04:17:52 AM by prodromas »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #104 on: November 14, 2007, 03:40:05 AM »
well personally I'd follow pathofsolitude because if it's not Orthodox I think he has a fairly good grasp of things.
Huh? ???
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Offline pathofsolitude

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The great apostasy has occured. Get out of there while you can!!! Its better to be priestless than to have a heretic bishop. The apostles taught that the church consists of saints only. There are about 7,000 Spirit-bearers currently in the catacombs.

Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2007, 11:38:10 AM »
Well personally I'd follow pathofsolitude in a religion, because if I was (not) Orthodox I think that he/she has a fairly good grasp of things. I mean he/she has the holy spirit and I can't argue with that.
Sorry for the confusion Peter.

LMAO :D...good one.
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2007, 11:45:21 AM »
LMAO :D...good one.

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Offline admiralnick

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2007, 02:13:54 PM »
You heretic!  I am of the Alfredo baptized denomination of the CSFC!  I take that personally!  :police: (just wanted to use the police smiley face...no reason whatsoever)

The CSFC is just a bunch of people who didn't like Meatballs! You broke away from us, not us from you! Look at your history!  :laugh:

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Offline Didymus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2007, 02:28:59 AM »
Pravoslavbob, aren't you able to modify the poll yourself anyway?

I think it would be better to ask what we would be if we had not discovered Orthodoxy. For me this is like asking where I would be if Christ had not come. As such, I would probably have been a Sikh as I see Sikhism as having a great deal in common with Christianity and many similiarities between its founder and our Father Abraham.

That being said, I'm glad the Orthodox Church exists! :)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2007, 06:00:54 PM »
The CSFC is just a bunch of people who didn't like Meatballs! You broke away from us, not us from you! Look at your history!  :laugh:

-nick

Nuh-uh!  You can't catch meatballs, you make them.  Shrimp Alfredo Fettucini is our backbone Pastafarian dogma.  You catch shrimp.  The CFSM is a Church that makes things up along the way, just as you made your own history.  :P  :angel:
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Offline paradoxy

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2007, 02:34:03 PM »
I voted Catholic, (I like the Western Mass, and was elated to learn - only recently - that we have a Western Rite!  :) what? there's no 'elated' smilie?) but sometimes I think the Sufis are much closer to Orthodoxy in their view of the world and mindset... accepting paradox as the core of faith and praxis, instead of a rulebook.

Or Zoroastrian, or Jewish - it's about as close as it gets in terms of worship.

Or agnostic, or atheist, or Gnostic, or Satanist - if there was no Orthodoxy as it is, I'd still be rebeling against God as I imagined Him to be before I really found out about Orthodoxy (and I'm a cradle Orthodox... sorta)
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Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2007, 06:40:04 PM »
Quote
what? there's no 'elated' smilie

Try exstatic, or even happy.
 ;)
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Offline admiralnick

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #114 on: November 19, 2007, 10:59:26 AM »
Nuh-uh!  You can't catch meatballs, you make them.  Shrimp Alfredo Fettucini is our backbone Pastafarian dogma.  You catch shrimp.  The CFSM is a Church that makes things up along the way, just as you made your own history.  :P  :angel:

You mean you would cook Ian Lazarus' avatar? I'm shocked and awed! :o

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #115 on: November 19, 2007, 01:42:07 PM »
You mean you would cook Ian Lazarus' avatar? I'm shocked and awed! :o

-nick

yum  ;D
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #116 on: November 19, 2007, 11:44:45 PM »
Pravoslavbob, aren't you able to modify the poll yourself anyway?

I don't know.  Probably.  I just don't know how.   :P

Quote
I think it would be better to ask what we would be if we had not discovered Orthodoxy. For me this is like asking where I would be if Christ had not come.

I know, it's kind of a weird queston.  Your idea would probably have been better.  But thanks for answering, anyway.
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Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #117 on: November 20, 2007, 11:14:55 PM »
if I was not Orthodox I would just be a degenerate hedonist; that's what I gravitate toward if I slip in my prayer life; so I can't say I'd be anything nobel in some other religion.

Offline aserb

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #118 on: November 28, 2007, 08:39:12 PM »
Bro Aidan is the only honest man here.
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #119 on: November 28, 2007, 09:53:20 PM »
Hey, I even admit to being a degenerate hedonist as things stand...but that's more of a philosophy than a religion. ;)
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2007, 10:08:56 PM »
Bro Aidan is the only honest man here.

Right because every non-Orthodox person is a degenerate hedonist.    ::)

Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #121 on: November 28, 2007, 10:27:12 PM »
Right because every non-Orthodox person is a degenerate hedonist.    ::)

Oh, your statement is probably right on, though I'd extend it to include every Orthodox person as well. We're all, ultimately, pursuing some form of pleasure, whether it's physical or psychological.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #122 on: November 30, 2007, 03:14:30 AM »
Oh, your statement is probably right on, though I'd extend it to include every Orthodox person as well. We're all, ultimately, pursuing some form of pleasure, whether it's physical or psychological.
Speak for yourself, buddy. >:( 8)
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #123 on: November 30, 2007, 03:40:24 AM »
Speak for yourself, buddy. >:( 8)

Nah, I think I speak for everyone. But, of course, some get a form of pleasure out of denying this fact. ;)
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Offline Cleopas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #124 on: November 30, 2007, 03:49:16 AM »
Errr, uhhhh, ...

Pardon me for saying so ... But the one true religion is Christianity. I can understand why someone might call one's sect or brand of Christianity a religion. However, it is (IMO) a misnomer. And it kinda gets my goat that other sects of the Christian faith are essentially placed on a level with utterly false and non-Christian religions. At least that is the way it appeared to me.

I mean, isn't being Protestant bad enough without being compared with the Christ-less?  :-[ ::) :laugh:

Just poking fun at ya'll.  :P



Anywho, if I had to choose from the list I would probably say...

Evangelical protestant.  ::) Go figure.  :-\ :laugh:


Okay, so now I'm gonna cast my vote and actually read the other replies.  :angel:
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 03:51:09 AM by Cleopas »
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Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #125 on: November 30, 2007, 05:04:56 AM »
Errr, uhhhh, ...

Pardon me for saying so ... But the one true religion is Christianity. I can understand why someone might call one's sect or brand of Christianity a religion. However, it is (IMO) a misnomer. And it kinda gets my goat that other sects of the Christian faith are essentially placed on a level with utterly false and non-Christian religions. At least that is the way it appeared to me.

I mean, isn't being Protestant bad enough without being compared with the Christ-less?  :-[ ::) :laugh:

Just poking fun at ya'll.  :P



Anywho, if I had to choose from the list I would probably say...

Evangelical protestant.  ::) Go figure.  :-\ :laugh:


Okay, so now I'm gonna cast my vote and actually read the other replies.  :angel:
Right. This is what I think also. It was surprising to me that people would choose atheism over a different Christian denomination.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #126 on: November 30, 2007, 10:28:13 AM »
I thought that this might be an interesting poll.  I'd just like Orthodox people to respond to the poll please, though I suppose it would be interesting for others to make comments too.  It would be great if you told us why you decided on the option you did, and what you second choice might be. 

I chose Buddhist as my "other option".  This would have to be in a situation where there was no such thing as Orthodoxy, or if I just didn't know about it.  I know, I know, very hypothetical, or worse.  I'm not sure if my real answer might have been Catholic or Atheist.  But, I don't really have to choose, since this situation doesn't exist at all, right? 

Okay, I goofed.  I took out Buddhist by mistake.  Hey mods, can I modify this poll and put it back in?


Of course then you would need to decide which type of Buddhist just like you have to choose which type of Christian.

Many Buddhists , especially in the West, follow a type of Buddhist Gnosticisnm. Other forms are deeply involved with occult type pracitces. Some see a Supreme Being and have made what Christens would see as some reasonable conclustions. Others meditate and have a very sober form of spirituality, other chant for health wealth and happiness and for more and better sex.

Religon is complicated.

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #127 on: November 30, 2007, 02:46:38 PM »
Okay, so now I'm gonna cast my vote and actually read the other replies.  :angel:

You're casting a vote in a poll that is explicitly for us "Orthodox"?
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Offline Νεκτάριος

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #128 on: November 30, 2007, 03:01:21 PM »
Oh, your statement is probably right on, though I'd extend it to include every Orthodox person as well. We're all, ultimately, pursuing some form of pleasure, whether it's physical or psychological.

While true, and Orthodoxy itself is a philokaliac religion by its own admission, some forms of pleasure are nobler than others. 

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #129 on: November 30, 2007, 05:11:54 PM »
Of course then you would need to decide which type of Buddhist just like you have to choose which type of Christian.

Many Buddhists , especially in the West, follow a type of Buddhist Gnosticisnm. Other forms are deeply involved with occult type pracitces. Some see a Supreme Being and have made what Christens would see as some reasonable conclustions. Others meditate and have a very sober form of spirituality, other chant for health wealth and happiness and for more and better sex.

Religon is complicated.

Marc
Former Buddhist

With so many Christian faiths to choose from why would anyone choose a less-than redemptive religion?


Offline Nyssa The Hobbit

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #130 on: November 30, 2007, 08:20:04 PM »
other chant for health wealth and happiness and for more and better sex.

Hmmm....That sounds like some of those televangelists I've seen on digital cable lately.
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Offline Cleopas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2007, 08:23:38 PM »
You're casting a vote in a poll that is explicitly for us "Orthodox"?


I thought the originator permitted non-Orthodox members to participate, though he preferred orthodox users?
If I was mistaken I will gladly withdraw my vote.


I have re-read and see that he permitted comments but asked for those such as myself not to vote.
My apologies. The vote has been rescinded.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 08:26:52 PM by Cleopas »
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2007, 11:48:09 PM »
With so many Christian faiths to choose from why would anyone choose a less-than redemptive religion?



I would agree, but just for arguments sake, what if the "Christian" faith was based on frivolous idea's of wealth accumulation ( mostly the Pastors Wealth in reality) as compared to a really spiritually sober Zen Buddhism that restricts the passions and offers mercy to all sentient beings ? In other words, would a really conservative Buddhism be better than a really off kilter Christianity?
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Offline GiC

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #133 on: December 01, 2007, 05:49:15 AM »
While true, and Orthodoxy itself is a philokaliac religion by its own admission, some forms of pleasure are nobler than others. 

Some forms of pleasure may be nobler (at least in the eyes of those pursuing them) than others; but in the end you're still pursuing pleasure, you're still a hedonist. ;)
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Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #134 on: December 01, 2007, 05:39:00 PM »
I would agree, but just for arguments sake, what if the "Christian" faith was based on frivolous idea's of wealth accumulation ( mostly the Pastors Wealth in reality) as compared to a really spiritually sober Zen Buddhism that restricts the passions and offers mercy to all sentient beings ? In other words, would a really conservative Buddhism be better than a really off kilter Christianity?
I saw an article which claimed that according to a particular non-Christian religion, one of the  questions that will be asked of you at judgement time, will be how much money did you leave to your family. To some extent, I suppose that Christians will also be subject to a question like this concerning family responsibilites.

Offline Art Nichols

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #135 on: December 01, 2007, 11:08:42 PM »
If i wasn't Orthodox my first choice would have been Shia Islam, the 2nd choice Catholic,and the 3rd choice world have been Judaism.
 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 11:10:21 PM by Art Nichols »
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Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #136 on: December 01, 2007, 11:36:17 PM »
If i wasn't Orthodox my first choice would have been Shia Islam, the 2nd choice Catholic,and the 3rd choice world have been Judaism.
 
As a general question, I don't know why Shia Islam would be preferred over Sunni Islam. Also, there are of course, three branches of Judaism: Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed.

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2007, 01:26:18 AM »
Right. This is what I think also. It was surprising to me that people would choose atheism over a different Christian denomination.
I was running out of gas and on my last "fumes" as an evangelical. I doubt I would be Christian if I had not found Orthodoxy. So, if I couldn't be Orthodox, I couldn't go back to something that couldn't sustain me.

Although maybe, a tiny maybe, but maybe, I could be in some kind of 'emergent Christianity" type church - but it would probably be as much for the music and power point presentations as the doctrine. But I do like alot of what they are trying to get at - however, I read their stuff and just sigh and say, "read the Fathers and you wouldn't have to try and re-invent everything - this was examined 1200 - 1800 years ago,"
« Last Edit: December 02, 2007, 01:31:04 AM by BrotherAidan »

Offline Art Nichols

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2007, 11:10:20 AM »
As a general question, I don't know why Shia Islam would be preferred over Sunni Islam. Also, there are of course, three branches of Judaism: Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed.

To me Sunni Islam seemed too much like an Islamic version of Protestantism. Plus I was raised with an Evangelical Protestant background (which i truth in).

out of those three branches of Judaism I would have chosen Orthodox.

But i know that Orthodox Christianity is the true religion now.
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2007, 03:43:04 PM »
With so many Christian faiths to choose from why would anyone choose a less-than redemptive religion?



I think the question was which is more redemptive. The sillest Christian groups vs the most conservative Buddhism.

Who is more grace filled? Is it a Buddhist monk who restricts his passions to the same strict level as our Monks, who witdraws from the world and  who has some understanding of his relationship with the Supreme? Or a Christian who is looking to scam on God to get more wealth and possesions? 
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #140 on: April 30, 2009, 11:22:32 PM »
 I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #141 on: April 30, 2009, 11:32:40 PM »
This is an intriguing thread-one which I've never noticed before!

From my experience, Orthodoxy is the best "serious" religion in which to be a convert.

But if I'd have had a different fate in life, I would have liked being born into a Jewish home or into an Anabaptist home.

I've also had an interest in paganism, because I sort of love nature and sometimes would like to be a pagan girl wearing a big wreath of flowers on my head and a long flowing gown and go dancing through the woods, muttering to trees and kissing the flowers, it's a pretty picture to me. But, of course, this is just  my own interpretation of paganism.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2009, 12:17:34 AM »
I voted Catholic, which is a pretty boring answer as it's almost the same religion on so many levels, but whatever.  The Byzantine Catholic answers were even more unoriginal!  I am just assuming that if Orthodoxy had not survived, then the Catholic church would have an unrivaled claim to being Christ's True Church.

But if Christianity was out of the picture all together, I would probably go with Judaism for its supreme concept of One God of all nations.  Islam would not be an option, as it needs Christianity to whine about to be a religion in the first place.

Actually, it's pretty much dead-even between Orthodox Judaism and Mahayana Buddhism.  I would want the notion of One Supreme God,  but on the other hand the "greater vehicle" school of Buddhism reaches out to the whole world in a way that the Jews never have.  They are too insular; containing God's blessings in one small group.  So what I would be looking for is a religion with a monistic principle, but that was a personal deity, with a universal message.  Hmmm, so I would be trying to invent Christianity!  Maybe Hinduism or Zoroastrianism, so many options!

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2009, 12:29:26 AM »
A Deist in some shape or form I suppose.
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Offline Douglas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #144 on: May 01, 2009, 12:42:32 AM »
Interesting question. I came from evangelical roots and would probably return to them since it's my heritage. A secondary choice would be Roman Catholic since I'm so impressed with folks like Tom Howard and Scott Hawn.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »
I'm not Orthodox (not yet, at any rate), but if I were Orthodox, and then had to not be Orthodox, then I would be one of these three: (1) Conservative Judaic; (2) Sufi; or (3) traditional Taoist.
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Offline Papist

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2009, 12:40:04 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2009, 02:41:00 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.

Because they lack the energies/essence distinction?

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2009, 02:45:00 PM »

Wow!  I can't even fathom being anything other than Orthodox.

Having known and experienced the Orthodox Faith....all others pale by comparison....and hold little to no interest.

It's just unimaginable.

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Offline Papist

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #149 on: May 01, 2009, 02:47:44 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.

Because they lack the energies/essence distinction?
One of the many reasons. I also think that their more juridical view of ecclesiology and the inclusion of the atonement in their faith is more true to the early Church than the EO view on these matters.
However, If I wasn't Catholic, and I wasn't OO, it would be really hard for me to choose at that point. There are areas where I think Lutheranism is closer to what the early church taught vs. Eastern Orthodoxy and there are areas where I think Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to what the Early Church taught. However, the EO church has valid sacraments... It would be a tough choice to sort out.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 02:51:29 PM by Papist »
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2009, 06:46:36 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.

Quote

Lutheranism is closer to what the early church taught vs. Eastern Orthodoxy and there are areas where I think Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to what the Early Church taught.
Really? Luther took a couple of books out of the New Testament. The epistle of James and the book of Revelations are two that I can recall. Plus, his view on the sacrament of the Eucharist was quite different in some aspects. I don't think I'd be a Lutheran if I had the choice. For being a former Augustinian monk, it seems he strayed far from traditional Roman Catholic teachings. Although, I do understand that many things were occurring during his day and age. Just my opinion, correct me if I am wrong. Blessings
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 06:54:01 PM by ChristusDominus »
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2009, 07:13:03 PM »
I would see myself as an Orthodox Jew - perhaps one of those Jews for Jesus .

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2009, 10:43:31 PM »
Rethinking this, if I had not become Orthodox, I would probably be a Meist now. ;D  Wait a minute! :o  I don't think I've really overcome being a Meist yet. :'(
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2009, 10:48:58 PM »
I would say Mathematician, but that's just boring, so maybe Physicist. :D
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #154 on: May 02, 2009, 10:51:30 PM »
I would say Mathematician, but that's just boring, so maybe Physicist. :D

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Offline Alpo

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2009, 07:53:10 AM »
I chose Catholism but I guess I could also have voted for "Protestant with more of a liturgical bent". As a Catholic I'd definitely choose the Latin Church. I'd like to be liberal but I guess I would propably end up as a some kind of traditionalist

If I had to choose something outside of Christianity, I'd choose some form of Monotheism. Either some traditional religion (Judaism, Islam etc.) or something unsettled longing for something greater than this world.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2009, 12:53:55 PM »
Muslim maybe? Strange question.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2009, 01:41:17 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.

Quote

Lutheranism is closer to what the early church taught vs. Eastern Orthodoxy and there are areas where I think Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to what the Early Church taught.
Really? Luther took a couple of books out of the New Testament. The epistle of James and the book of Revelations are two that I can recall. Plus, his view on the sacrament of the Eucharist was quite different in some aspects. I don't think I'd be a Lutheran if I had the choice. For being a former Augustinian monk, it seems he strayed far from traditional Roman Catholic teachings. Although, I do understand that many things were occurring during his day and age. Just my opinion, correct me if I am wrong. Blessings
Well the lack of an atonement or original sin in EO is a big issue for me. Further, the idea that God is ontologically essence and energies is a problem as well. It would be a hard choice.
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Offline username!

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2009, 01:47:37 PM »
Well, here's the question answered backwards. If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.

Quote

Lutheranism is closer to what the early church taught vs. Eastern Orthodoxy and there are areas where I think Eastern Orthodoxy is closer to what the Early Church taught.
Really? Luther took a couple of books out of the New Testament. The epistle of James and the book of Revelations are two that I can recall. Plus, his view on the sacrament of the Eucharist was quite different in some aspects. I don't think I'd be a Lutheran if I had the choice. For being a former Augustinian monk, it seems he strayed far from traditional Roman Catholic teachings. Although, I do understand that many things were occurring during his day and age. Just my opinion, correct me if I am wrong. Blessings
Well the lack of an atonement or original sin in EO is a big issue for me. Further, the idea that God is ontologically essence and energies is a problem as well. It would be a hard choice.

Pope worship and invented doctrine are a big issue as well for many that wouldn't be Roman Catholic.

Offline Michał

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #159 on: May 03, 2009, 01:52:19 PM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

Me too. :)

Muslim maybe? Strange question.

A Podlachian one? ;)

Well the lack of an atonement or original sin in EO is a big issue for me.

If something is put in a different way than in Roman Catholicism, it doesn't mean that it is non-existent.

Offline mike

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2009, 01:53:28 PM »
Muslim maybe? Strange question.
A Podlachian one? ;)

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2009, 01:55:09 PM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

What's a Tridentine Catholic?  Wouldn't that be a Roman Catholic who attends the extraordinary form?  It's still sectarianism at best.

Offline Michał

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2009, 01:56:05 PM »
Muslim maybe? Strange question.
A Podlachian one? ;)

Don't we have Tatars in our region?

You have. That's what I was alluding to! :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 01:57:26 PM by Michał »

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2009, 02:47:30 PM »
I Allway loved our timeless saying, Better the sultans turban than tiara of Rome....
second choice would be Jehovah witness....
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2009, 04:59:33 PM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

What's a Tridentine Catholic?  Wouldn't that be a Roman Catholic who attends the extraordinary form?  It's still sectarianism at best.
Whether it's sectarian or not, that  is not the issue at this time. Many here have listed muslim, protestant, taoist, buddhist and who knows what else but, my response got your attention , eh? ;) Well, to answer your question, a Tridentine Catholic is one that celebrates the Traditional Latin Mass and not in the vernacular. Incense, ancient vestments, bells, whistles, the whole nine yards. No musical instruments other than an organ along with Gregorian chant.  :angel:
« Last Edit: May 03, 2009, 05:00:43 PM by ChristusDominus »
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Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #165 on: May 03, 2009, 05:09:28 PM »
I Allway loved our timeless saying, Better the sultans turban than tiara of Rome....
 
Forgive me for saying this but, that is something that has always perplexed me. Unless you mean that you'd rather be Muslim than Catholic?. In that case, I get what you are saying. I always understood it to mean that one would rather be Orthodox under the Muslim yoke rather than the Catholic.
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Offline stashko

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #166 on: May 03, 2009, 05:16:19 PM »
I Allway loved our timeless saying, Better the sultans turban than tiara of Rome....
 
Forgive me for saying this but, that is something that has always perplexed me. Unless you mean that you'd rather be Muslim than Catholic?. In that case, I get what you are saying. I always understood it to mean that one would rather be Orthodox under the Muslim yoke rather than the Catholic.

Your Are Correct....I also Had a lot of jehovah witness neighbors, also attended their kingdom hall ,they were extreamly decent just plain good people,,left a great impression on me...God Bless them...
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #167 on: May 03, 2009, 05:24:21 PM »
I Allway loved our timeless saying, Better the sultans turban than tiara of Rome....
 
Forgive me for saying this but, that is something that has always perplexed me. Unless you mean that you'd rather be Muslim than Catholic?. In that case, I get what you are saying. I always understood it to mean that one would rather be Orthodox under the Muslim yoke rather than the Catholic.

Your Are Correct....I also Had a lot of jehovah witness neighbors, also attended their kingdom hall ,they were extreamly decent just plain good people,,left a great impression on me...God Bless them...
But then you wouldn't be able to wear a three barred cross around your neck :P
There is no more evident sign that anyone is a saint and of the number of the elect, than to see him leading a good life and at the same time a prey to desolation, suffering, and trials. - Saint Aloysius Gonzaga

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #168 on: May 03, 2009, 07:18:49 PM »
None of the others make any sense, so if there was no Orthodoxy I'd have to go with agnostic or deist.

Offline aquaticus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #169 on: May 03, 2009, 10:42:14 PM »
At this point I could'nt imagine being a member of any other faith.

Offline Papist

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #170 on: May 03, 2009, 11:38:00 PM »
I think that there is one major problem with this thread, and that is that it is a thread on a forum on the internet. On the internet we are protected from real life in a way. The real variables that would affect our choice of communion do not exist here. We don't have to take into account the real feelings we have or the real interactions we would have without our communion existing. That being said, I don't think that everyone here would make the religious choices that they listed online. I think that in real life, when push comes to shove, those Orthodox who have posted answers that are not Christian would, in real life, not be able to abandon Christ. I think that when the rubber hit road, such persons would choose some Christian denomination. Could someo prejudices affect what particular denomination each of us would choose? Of course, but  I highly doubt that any of us could honestly conceive of abandoning the Triune God.
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Offline cholmes

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #171 on: May 04, 2009, 12:01:44 AM »
Prior to my chrismation 10 years ago I attended numerous masses at the local RC parish, and had many good and fruitful discussions with the priest at the parish.  It's not a stretch to say that I would be Catholic now had I not found my home in Orthodoxy.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #172 on: May 04, 2009, 12:02:42 AM »
I think that there is one major problem with this thread, and that is that it is a thread on a forum on the internet. On the internet we are protected from real life in a way. The real variables that would affect our choice of communion do not exist here. We don't have to take into account the real feelings we have or the real interactions we would have without our communion existing. That being said, I don't think that everyone here would make the religious choices that they listed online. I think that in real life, when push comes to shove, those Orthodox who have posted answers that are not Christian would, in real life, not be able to abandon Christ. I think that when the rubber hit road, such persons would choose some Christian denomination. Could someo prejudices affect what particular denomination each of us would choose? Of course, but  I highly doubt that any of us could honestly conceive of abandoning the Triune God.
I think you're right.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2009, 03:16:20 AM »
I think that there is one major problem with this thread, and that is that it is a thread on a forum on the internet. On the internet we are protected from real life in a way. The real variables that would affect our choice of communion do not exist here. We don't have to take into account the real feelings we have or the real interactions we would have without our communion existing. That being said, I don't think that everyone here would make the religious choices that they listed online. I think that in real life, when push comes to shove, those Orthodox who have posted answers that are not Christian would, in real life, not be able to abandon Christ. I think that when the rubber hit road, such persons would choose some Christian denomination. Could someo prejudices affect what particular denomination each of us would choose? Of course, but  I highly doubt that any of us could honestly conceive of abandoning the Triune God.
Correct.
BTW, since some Catholics have answered the question in reverse, I can also give it a try. If Catholicism were not available, then I would probably convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I guess that I would be considered a heretic, since I don't think that I could in all honesty give up on my belief in purgatory. I just don't see people going to eternal fire in hell for lesser sins such as saying your morning prayers too inattentively.

Offline Michał

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #174 on: May 05, 2009, 04:15:30 AM »
. . .I don't think that I could in all honesty give up on my belief in purgatory. I just don't see people going to eternal fire in hell for lesser sins such as saying your morning prayers too inattentively.

But there is no hell (Gehenna) right now. It will come only after the Final Judgement. Current options are either Heaven or Hades.

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #175 on: May 05, 2009, 06:59:52 AM »
I cannot imagine not being Orthodox but if the Church didn;t exist I would be a Anglo/Catholic 'High Church Episcopalian:. I flirted with the Religious Society of Friends during undergraduate school because of their antiwar and human rights statements.

Offline cholmes

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #176 on: May 05, 2009, 09:16:10 AM »
Correct.
BTW, since some Catholics have answered the question in reverse, I can also give it a try. If Catholicism were not available, then I would probably convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I guess that I would be considered a heretic, since I don't think that I could in all honesty give up on my belief in purgatory. I just don't see people going to eternal fire in hell for lesser sins such as saying your morning prayers too inattentively.

The Orthodox Church does not teach this.

Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #177 on: May 05, 2009, 12:50:11 PM »
Correct.
BTW, since some Catholics have answered the question in reverse, I can also give it a try. If Catholicism were not available, then I would probably convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, but I guess that I would be considered a heretic, since I don't think that I could in all honesty give up on my belief in purgatory. I just don't see people going to eternal fire in hell for lesser sins such as saying your morning prayers too inattentively.

The Orthodox Church does not teach this.
Would grumbling or impatience with something that happened at work or on the freeway be a sin according to the Orthodox Church? This would generally be a venial sin in the RCC, which is to say a lesser sin which would not merit eternal punishment.

Offline Michał

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #178 on: May 05, 2009, 01:03:34 PM »
Would grumbling or impatience with something that happened at work or on the freeway be a sin according to the Orthodox Church? This would generally be a venial sin in the RCC, which is to say a lesser sin which would not merit eternal punishment.

We do not think in such a legalistic way. For us, it's rather about the process of theosis; wether you are deified on your death or not; or wether you at least tried to become deified or not.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 01:04:05 PM by Michał »

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #179 on: May 05, 2009, 01:41:47 PM »
I would probably be Roman Catholic. If I wasn't a Christian, I would probably be agnostic.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #180 on: May 05, 2009, 02:16:50 PM »
Would grumbling or impatience with something that happened at work or on the freeway be a sin according to the Orthodox Church? This would generally be a venial sin in the RCC, which is to say a lesser sin which would not merit eternal punishment.

We do not think in such a legalistic way. For us, it's rather about the process of theosis; wether you are deified on your death or not; or wether you at least tried to become deified or not.
OK. Thanks for taking the time to explain this.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #181 on: May 05, 2009, 02:25:47 PM »

I would be Oriental Orthodox if not Eastern Orthodox, but that option is not given. This is why I have to choose Judaism  :)
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Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #182 on: May 06, 2009, 09:49:23 AM »
If I were not Catholic I would be Oriental Orthodox.
Well the lack of an atonement or original sin in EO is a big issue for me.
I was under the impression that OO, and EO said the same thing in regards to the Original Sin/Ancestral Sin. Am I wrong?

Offline Marc1152

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #183 on: May 06, 2009, 11:11:23 AM »
I would see myself as an Orthodox Jew - perhaps one of those Jews for Jesus .

Pick one.... "Jews for Jesus" are rather fringe Evangelical Protestants.

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #184 on: May 06, 2009, 11:51:11 AM »
Pick one.... "Jews for Jesus" are rather fringe Evangelical Protestants.
You forgot the third option: Dispensationalists

Quote
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #185 on: June 11, 2010, 06:37:33 AM »
Well, my understanding is that the Orthodox Church has the teachings of the early church, like baptism, divine presence in the Eucharist, apostolic succession.

If I wasn't Orthodox, that would mean for me that I very likely gave up Christianity. I admit the possibility I could have a mind-blowing revelation that the kosher Judaizer tendences of some in the early Jerusalem church were right, or that Jesus was only a human Messiah, but still was a Messiah, and in that case I would join some very small group. But I think that kind of revelation would be very unlikely, absent a time machine, plus I doubt those things would be right.

Judaism is the base of Christianity, but I would not go to Judaism, not because I am not an ethnic Jew, but because I love the image of God in the New Testament. Alot of the image of God in the Old Testament makes me recoil, when it takes about such strict laws of executing heretics, flogging people, not to mention all the kosher rules and customs. I think and want God to be a God of love and mercy, so it is not a model I would join. Judaism's main idea is monotheism, and that IS something I could go to.

So I would become a theist. I think Thomas Jefferson and the founding fathers were Deists- they did not believe in Jesus' miracles, but believed in God in the classic nonChristian monotheist sense. I read that some Bolsheviks, like Maxim Gorky and perhaps Lunacharsky, did believe in the Lord God despite being nonChristians, and they called this understanding "Bogostroitelstvo." They saw God as being a collective, sharing commune of humanity combined with God. They had different ideas about what this meant. I think the movement might be associated with Transhumanism in English.

So I accept the Orthodox faith as the faith handed down by the apostles. If it turned out to be false, it wouldn't be on something like the Pope being an overarching infallible replacement for Christ on earth over all the church. That sounds so ridiculous and almost blasphemous to say that one person who is not God can be unable to make a mistake, especially when we see cases of Popes torturing people to death. if he thinks that is a good church decision, I don't trust him to be unmistakable when making up theories either. Sorry.

To reject Orthodoxy would have to mean that Christianity itself was deeply flawed, that the wonderful things I want to be true are not. I would still love God and go with the faith of the American and [some] Russian revolutionaries. But for that if a big IF again. I would again probably need a time machine to prove one way or the other. I am still on a spiritual journey spending time learning about Jesus and Christianity. And even if it is wrong, it is still a wonderful journey because it is very inspiring to see how a person can teach so much love, mercy, and understanding about God, be executed for it as a bad criminal, and have this faith spread around the world. I want Jesus to be resurrected like all the other good criminals. There are many many criminals, and many of them are good.


Be Good.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 06:43:12 AM by rakovsky »

Offline prodromas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #186 on: June 17, 2010, 02:00:58 PM »
So I accept the Orthodox faith as the faith handed down by the apostles. If it turned out to be false, it wouldn't be on something like the Pope being an overarching infallible replacement for Christ on earth over all the church. That sounds so ridiculous and almost blasphemous to say that one person who is not God can be unable to make a mistake, especially when we see cases of Popes torturing people to death. if he thinks that is a good church decision, I don't trust him to be unmistakable when making up theories either. Sorry.

That is not at all how the Catholics are meant to see the pope and they do not. Infallibility does not mean not being able to make a mistake. I'll let a more learned poster or RC poster explain further if you want.
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Offline David Carroll

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #187 on: June 17, 2010, 02:24:05 PM »
I'd be an Orthodox Jew.
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Offline genesisone

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #188 on: June 17, 2010, 03:33:07 PM »
I've finally come to the conclusion that if Orthodoxy isn't the faith given to us by the one true God, then there is no one true God. I'd be atheist.

Offline David Carroll

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #189 on: June 17, 2010, 03:33:50 PM »
Well said, genesisone.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #190 on: June 17, 2010, 08:05:55 PM »
I've finally come to the conclusion that if Orthodoxy isn't the faith given to us by the one true God, then there is no one true God. I'd be atheist.

I had said I would be a general theist. I see your strict logic, so I will raise you one. You meant that God necessarily depends on Orthodoxy. God created Orthodoxy is something you believe so strongly, that if Orthodoxy didn't exist, then the formula wouldn't exist, since God is such a part of Orthodoxy for you. Well, God created you too, according to Orthodoxy. You are so connected to God and to Orthodoxy, that one couldn't exist without the other. And yet you exist.

The problem with this, if it is a problem, is that it is very ontological.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #191 on: June 17, 2010, 08:51:56 PM »
Ummmm....

Doesn't it really depend on the reason why I wasn't Orthodox?
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #192 on: June 17, 2010, 10:05:52 PM »
I would be confused.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Offline genesisone

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #193 on: June 17, 2010, 10:13:45 PM »
I've finally come to the conclusion that if Orthodoxy isn't the faith given to us by the one true God, then there is no one true God. I'd be atheist.

I had said I would be a general theist. I see your strict logic, so I will raise you one. You meant that God necessarily depends on Orthodoxy. God created Orthodoxy is something you believe so strongly, that if Orthodoxy didn't exist, then the formula wouldn't exist, since God is such a part of Orthodoxy for you. Well, God created you too, according to Orthodoxy. You are so connected to God and to Orthodoxy, that one couldn't exist without the other. And yet you exist.

The problem with this, if it is a problem, is that it is very ontological.
Interesting challenge. Allow me to continue. It isn't correct to have me say that "God ... depends on Orthodoxy. [That] God created Orthodoxy...." Yes, God created me - but He didn't create the Church in the same way, but rather reveals Himself through her. If everything that I am and everything that I know and experience should somehow be shown to have come into existence in some way other than that revealed through the Church, then God would have to be a liar and deceiver. Therefore, not a God who merits any concern or even belief from me. My belief would be that there is no God and all of what we know as creation is merely happenstance.

I think I was interpreting the original question as "What faith would you be if you couldn't be Orthodox?" In other words, knowing what I know now, if that were to be taken away from me, where would I turn?

Offline rakovsky

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #194 on: June 18, 2010, 12:43:39 AM »
I've finally come to the conclusion that if Orthodoxy isn't the faith given to us by the one true God, then there is no one true God. I'd be atheist.

I had said I would be a general theist. I see your strict logic, so I will raise you one. You meant that God necessarily depends on Orthodoxy. God created Orthodoxy is something you believe so strongly, that if Orthodoxy didn't exist, then the formula wouldn't exist, since God is such a part of Orthodoxy for you. Well, God created you too, according to Orthodoxy. You are so connected to God and to Orthodoxy, that one couldn't exist without the other. And yet you exist.

The problem with this, if it is a problem, is that it is very ontological.
Interesting challenge. Allow me to continue. It isn't correct to have me say that "God ... depends on Orthodoxy. [That] God created Orthodoxy...." Yes, God created me - but He didn't create the Church in the same way, but rather reveals Himself through her. If everything that I am and everything that I know and experience should somehow be shown to have come into existence in some way other than that revealed through the Church, then God would have to be a liar and deceiver. Therefore, not a God who merits any concern or even belief from me. My belief would be that there is no God and all of what we know as creation is merely happenstance.

I think I was interpreting the original question as "What faith would you be if you couldn't be Orthodox?" In other words, knowing what I know now, if that were to be taken away from me, where would I turn?

Atheism means that you do not believe in any God. The frightening hypothetical that you described (which I hope is not the case), would if it were the case mean that God is real, but you just don't turn to him or want to follow Him. That still would not mean He did not exist.

I very much want to believe God is so kind. If He isnt all-compassionate, then I guess it is just a realistic assessment that he follows the Old Testament tit-for tat style of vengeance. I think God transcends the Old Testament, stops the vengeance, and replaces it with something better. I see that human society develops, it transcends tit-for-tat, people are not as harsh as their grandparents often. It seems God wants to say something when he sees dead stagnancy. We have to be careful, in the sense that "We have fear of God", yet God makes us happy. This is very philosophical.

Even if God did follow the Old Testament, he still gives us a way out- there are many cruel times when the law in the US or another country executes people like the robber on Jesus' less for committing less than murder. Yes, still some states in US have the felony murder rule where some people are given 1st degree murder sentences for participating in a felony in which someone dies. The point is, society does not follow the Old Testament and has not for some time- it is much crueler. I think if God is real and is tit-for tat, it seems that he will still want to overcome what the law of the states put in place. He will want to overcome it with compassion.

What would I be if there is no God? Would I exist? What is God? Now you are in a completely different area if you have set aside Orthodox Christianity as a basis.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 12:51:58 AM by rakovsky »

Offline genesisone

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #195 on: June 18, 2010, 08:00:24 AM »
Atheism means that you do not believe in any God. The frightening hypothetical that you described (which I hope is not the case), would if it were the case mean that God is real, but you just don't turn to him or want to follow Him. That still would not mean He did not exist.

What would I be if there is no God? Would I exist? What is God? Now you are in a completely different area if you have set aside Orthodox Christianity as a basis.
What I mean is that I would have no belief in God and that my life would be lived on the premise that He does not exist. It would be a denial of the existence of God.

Remember, we're talking about beliefs and perceptions here. And I do agree that without God I really can't imagine my own existence. But I'm answering a question that expects me to suspend my beliefs.

Does this help make some sense of what I'm getting at?

Offline David Carroll

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #196 on: June 20, 2010, 05:27:06 PM »
I think the word "God" would be rendered meaningless if He did not reveal Himself.  It is only within a religious context that "God" is given any definition.

Humbly submitted.  Correct me.
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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #197 on: June 20, 2010, 10:08:41 PM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

Absolutely, me too. And if I lived through the Sixties then possibly even a Sedevacantist.

Now, if there was no Christianity at all then it gets a bit tougher....can one be a carnivore and a Hindu at the same time?   ;D
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #198 on: June 22, 2010, 04:33:42 AM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

Absolutely, me too. And if I lived through the Sixties then possibly even a Sedevacantist.

Now, if there was no Christianity at all then it gets a bit tougher....can one be a carnivore and a Hindu at the same time?   ;D

Can you please point me to a VERY brief summary of the differences between the Tridentine mass and the Novo Ordo one since Vatican II?

Or you can just tell me.

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 04:34:08 AM by rakovsky »

Offline Papist

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #199 on: June 22, 2010, 11:07:36 AM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

Absolutely, me too. And if I lived through the Sixties then possibly even a Sedevacantist.

Now, if there was no Christianity at all then it gets a bit tougher....can one be a carnivore and a Hindu at the same time?   ;D

Can you please point me to a VERY brief summary of the differences between the Tridentine mass and the Novo Ordo one since Vatican II?

Or you can just tell me.

Thanks
This is actually a complicated question to answer because the Novus Ordo is celebrated differently in different parishes and in different regions. But here it goes.
The Novus Ordo is considered a very dressed down version of the Roman Rite. It is celebrated in the venacular and the prayers are much much simpler than the prayers of the Tridentine Mass. Some say that the the prayers of the Trindentine Liturgy are richer in theology and worship.
In many places, the music used in the Novus Ordo is more modern, ranging from the sappy church music of the seventies and eighties, to contemporary Christian worship. However, there are parishes in which the NO (Novus Ordo) is celebrated with traditional hymns, and even sacred polyphony or Gregorian Chant, which is actually the only music allowed in the Tridentine Mass.
One of the most striking differences is that in many Parishes the NO is celebrated with the priest facing the people rather than ad orientem which is the manner prescribed for the Tridentine Liturgy. However, there is a growing trend in which priests celebrated the NO ad orientem just like the TLM. The funny thing about the situation is that the rubrics of Paul VI never called for the priest to face the people.
In all, the NO has had a complicated short history but things are beginning to improve. As stated above, many priests are starting to celebrate ad orientem and the sacred music is working its way back into many parishes. This process is being supported by the growing appreciation of the TLM in the Catholic Church and I can only hope that the love of good and traditional liurgy continues to spread.

Just a side, note. I think an Eastern Orthodox Christian would feel comfortable visiting a Tridentine Mass or a NO that is celebrate ad orientem with sacred music. However, and EO might feel uncomfortable at a NO that is celebrated with more contemporary music.
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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #200 on: June 25, 2010, 12:55:39 AM »
Can you please point me to a VERY brief summary of the differences between the Tridentine mass and the Novo Ordo one since Vatican II?

Or you can just tell me.

Thanks

Here's a brief summary of the particulars,

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703698.htm

For me, it comes down to beauty and tradition.

But I'm hoping someone with much more knowledge than me can respond to you.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #201 on: June 25, 2010, 05:25:39 AM »
Just a side, note. I think an Eastern Orthodox Christian would feel comfortable visiting a Tridentine Mass or a NO that is celebrate ad orientem with sacred music. However, and EO might feel uncomfortable at a NO that is celebrated with more contemporary music.

That's exactly my experience even before conversion. I had attended Byzantine services for a time before attending my first Tridentine mass. Due to lack of Latin skills I didn't understand much of it but I felt right at home. The spirit was pretty much the same I had used to in the Byzantine services whereas the NO masses felt completely different. I wonder whether the more traditionally celebrated NO mass would feel more like a home...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 05:26:35 AM by Alpo »
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Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #202 on: July 08, 2010, 03:26:34 PM »
I'd be a Tridentine Catholic,no doubt . :angel:

Absolutely, me too. And if I lived through the Sixties then possibly even a Sedevacantist.

Now, if there was no Christianity at all then it gets a bit tougher....can one be a carnivore and a Hindu at the same time?   ;D

Can you please point me to a VERY brief summary of the differences between the Tridentine mass and the Novo Ordo one since Vatican II?

Or you can just tell me.

Thanks
This is actually a complicated question to answer because the Novus Ordo is celebrated differently in different parishes and in different regions. But here it goes.
The Novus Ordo is considered a very dressed down version of the Roman Rite. It is celebrated in the venacular and the prayers are much much simpler than the prayers of the Tridentine Mass. Some say that the the prayers of the Trindentine Liturgy are richer in theology and worship.
In many places, the music used in the Novus Ordo is more modern, ranging from the sappy church music of the seventies and eighties, to contemporary Christian worship. However, there are parishes in which the NO (Novus Ordo) is celebrated with traditional hymns, and even sacred polyphony or Gregorian Chant, which is actually the only music allowed in the Tridentine Mass.
One of the most striking differences is that in many Parishes the NO is celebrated with the priest facing the people rather than ad orientem which is the manner prescribed for the Tridentine Liturgy. However, there is a growing trend in which priests celebrated the NO ad orientem just like the TLM. The funny thing about the situation is that the rubrics of Paul VI never called for the priest to face the people.
In all, the NO has had a complicated short history but things are beginning to improve. As stated above, many priests are starting to celebrate ad orientem and the sacred music is working its way back into many parishes. This process is being supported by the growing appreciation of the TLM in the Catholic Church and I can only hope that the love of good and traditional liurgy continues to spread.

Just a side, note. I think an Eastern Orthodox Christian would feel comfortable visiting a Tridentine Mass or a NO that is celebrate ad orientem with sacred music. However, and EO might feel uncomfortable at a NO that is celebrated with more contemporary music.

Sorry, Papist. I didn't see your reply before mine. Thanks for the info. There is so much beauty in the RC Church, I hope over time its reclaimed.
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Offline monkvasyl

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #203 on: July 08, 2010, 03:42:25 PM »
PAGAN!!!   No, only kidding. If I couldn't be Orthodox, I wouldn't want to live.  Life without the Truth would be a living hell.
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Offline stashko

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #204 on: July 08, 2010, 05:23:00 PM »
PAGAN!!!   No, only kidding. If I couldn't be Orthodox, I wouldn't want to live.  Life without the Truth would be a living hell.

Do you Mean Like Give me Holy Orthodoxy, Or Give me Death...If i NEVER KNEW ORTHODOXY , i would be happy as a Jehova wittness i think till something  better came along, like Mormanisim ;D Iv had dealings with both very impressed by them.... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #205 on: July 08, 2010, 05:50:42 PM »
PAGAN!!!  No, only kidding. If I couldn't be Orthodox, I wouldn't want to live.  Life without the Truth would be a living hell.

Do you Mean Like Give me Holy Orthodoxy, Or Give me Death...If i NEVER KNEW ORTHODOXY , i would be happy as a Jehova wittness i think till something  better came along, like Mormanisim ;D Iv had dealings with both very impressed by them.... ;D



Then you may really like one or two of the Mormon splinter groups if going way far afield has appeal for you.

There is the "Temple Lot" Mormons. They were among those who stayed back in MO and split with Brigham Young over polygamy and such the like and did not go to Utah. They formed The Reformed Church of Later Day Saints which now goes by the name Church of Christ I think. Then a smaller group broke from them and gained control of a 1 acre plot of land that Joseph Smith said was the exact spot where the Lord will return.

It bothers the other Mormon groups no end that this little sect owns the site. First one to the county deed office won I guess.

Religion is fun.  Can we set up lawn chairs and a lemonade stand there while we wait I wonder.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 05:51:22 PM by Marc1152 »
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline stashko

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #206 on: July 08, 2010, 06:25:05 PM »
Just to be on the safe side ,ill have to stick with the main branch of Mormonism, That's if i didn't know Holy Orthodoxy..... ;D
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline ChristusDominus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #207 on: July 10, 2010, 03:48:15 AM »
PAGAN!!!   No, only kidding. If I couldn't be Orthodox, I wouldn't want to live.  Life without the Truth would be a living hell.

Do you Mean Like Give me Holy Orthodoxy, Or Give me Death...If i NEVER KNEW ORTHODOXY , i would be happy as a Jehova wittness i think till something  better came along, like Mormanisim ;D Iv had dealings with both very impressed by them.... ;D
That doesn't surprise me.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #208 on: July 10, 2010, 04:05:03 AM »
PAGAN!!!   No, only kidding.

Actually I think that plain old paganism would be rather interesting option. I mean why not to stick with ones own tradition i.e. Paganism instead of completety weird and alien religions coming from other part of the World.
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Offline JimCBrooklyn

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #209 on: July 12, 2010, 06:09:58 AM »
Fundamentalist Mormon, hands down: compound, special undergarments, 27 wives and all.
It's all in the D&C
Though I'd have to be president, prophet, seer and revelator.
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Offline Nadege

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #210 on: February 29, 2012, 10:53:19 PM »
I'd be Coptic!  It's an awesome Middle Eastern version of Orthodoxy to me.

Offline William

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #211 on: February 29, 2012, 11:02:42 PM »
Traditional Anglican, maybe.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #212 on: February 29, 2012, 11:52:41 PM »
I'd be Coptic!  It's an awesome Middle Eastern version of Orthodoxy to me.

*grumbling noises*

I'd move to Toledo to be closer to the Mozarabic rite churches in Toledo and surrounding areas. I'd have to adapt to the Spanish accent (ugh), but it'd be worth it. Maybe.

Offline TheMathematician

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #213 on: March 01, 2012, 12:00:54 AM »
I would go Lutheran (LCMS) most likely

Offline quietmorning

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #214 on: March 01, 2012, 01:04:25 AM »
Lost.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #215 on: March 01, 2012, 01:06:51 AM »
PAGAN!!!   No, only kidding. If I couldn't be Orthodox, I wouldn't want to live.  Life without the Truth would be a living hell.

This, for the most part.  Except I'm not kidding.  Orthodoxy is the only religion that feels right to me.  If for some reason there was no Orthodoxy, it would be Old One-Eye for me.  Not kidding.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #216 on: March 01, 2012, 06:15:09 AM »
Probably Jewish, since, the mainline Protestant Churches are a joke in my opinion, judging from personal experience, and I cannot accept the legalistic, abusive-father view of salvation in Roman Catholicism. Judaism on the other hand seems more liturgical and valid, with deep devotion to study and waiting for the Savior to come with a sort of quiet, introverted position in the world where not a lot of people know about is and we are free to observe from a distance, perfect for the individualistic introverted personality I have. Wow, saying this makes me want to reconsider my conversion to Orthodoxy and go to Judaism. On the other hand, I do not think it is worth having to get circumcised for /jk.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Nicene

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #217 on: March 02, 2012, 06:30:26 AM »
Deist, I don't think I can live in a world in which I could deny the existence of a divine conscious entity that is responsible and or the source of our morality, the cause of everything that began to exist and the like.
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Offline Ioannis Climacus

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #218 on: March 02, 2012, 07:37:07 AM »
Orthodoxy or death!

Adoption of a nihilistic worldview seems the most logical as no religion has the power to purify and illumine the nous.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 08:04:55 AM by Ioannis Climacus »
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Offline mark thomas

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #219 on: March 02, 2012, 10:37:30 AM »
Before I became Orthodox, I was intrigued by Buddhism, Kabbalistic Judaism, and Sufism (I was exploring them, though I hadn't gone too deeply into any of them. Kept feeling that they all pointed towards a common direction).

Shared JamesR's sentiments towards Catholicism, above; kept digging into the history of the other Christian denominations & kept rejecting them.

More properly philosophies, Zen, Taoism, & Confucianism & made a lot of sense to me.

So, if I hadn't come to Orthodoxy, optimistically, I think I may have become some form of Buddhist.

More realistically, probably some form of Mr. Potatohead style pick-and-choose-your-own New Agey Do It Yourself Enlightenment kind of thing based on all of the above.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #220 on: March 02, 2012, 10:39:24 AM »
I've always enjoyed reading about odd little sects and 'remnant' religions. Wonder if there are any working Zoroastrian temples today?

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #221 on: March 02, 2012, 11:00:07 AM »
I've always enjoyed reading about odd little sects and 'remnant' religions. Wonder if there are any working Zoroastrian temples today?
In India, for sure.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #222 on: March 02, 2012, 11:02:40 AM »
I've always enjoyed reading about odd little sects and 'remnant' religions. Wonder if there are any working Zoroastrian temples today?
In India, for sure.

I grew up with some kids from India named "Cyrus" and "Darius" and it later dawned on me that they were Parsees.

Offline stanley123

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #223 on: March 05, 2012, 02:25:04 AM »
Probably Jewish,...
But in order to be Jewish, you have to reject Jesus as the Messiah and Savior of the world?

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #224 on: March 05, 2012, 02:53:13 AM »
I've always enjoyed reading about odd little sects and 'remnant' religions. Wonder if there are any working Zoroastrian temples today?
In India, for sure.

Yazd, Iran still has a relatively large, active Zoroastrian community.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2012, 05:56:32 AM »
I believe there is also a Zoroastrian temple somewhere in America, but I can't recall where I've read this.

Anyways, I voted Jewish.  If I were to lose faith in Orthodoxy, the only other Christian group I can possibly see as being true are the OO.  However, if 'Orthodox' is to mean EO and OO, then I would go with Orthodox Judaism.  The history of the Church leads me to believe that Catholicism, Protestantism, Nestorianism, etc. are all serious deviations from the True Church.  If I were to ever join a Christian group that isn't Orthodox, it would be for reasons other than faith.  And if I were to join a religion for something other than faith, I could probably pick a more interesting and free religion than some type of Christianity or Judaism, to convince myself of.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #226 on: March 05, 2012, 11:03:42 AM »
I believe there is also a Zoroastrian temple somewhere in America, but I can't recall where I've read this.

Anyways, I voted Jewish.  If I were to lose faith in Orthodoxy, the only other Christian group I can possibly see as being true are the OO.  However, if 'Orthodox' is to mean EO and OO, then I would go with Orthodox Judaism.  The history of the Church leads me to believe that Catholicism, Protestantism, Nestorianism, etc. are all serious deviations from the True Church.  If I were to ever join a Christian group that isn't Orthodox, it would be for reasons other than faith.  And if I were to join a religion for something other than faith, I could probably pick a more interesting and free religion than some type of Christianity or Judaism, to convince myself of.

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would reject all of Christianity.  I would also reject the Jewish religion since the Christian is only a logical (to me) fulfillment of the Jewish.  That is why I would choose a religion that pre-dates even the Jewish and choose the Hindu or one of its derivatives.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #227 on: March 05, 2012, 11:06:28 AM »
I believe there is also a Zoroastrian temple somewhere in America, but I can't recall where I've read this.

Anyways, I voted Jewish.  If I were to lose faith in Orthodoxy, the only other Christian group I can possibly see as being true are the OO.  However, if 'Orthodox' is to mean EO and OO, then I would go with Orthodox Judaism.  The history of the Church leads me to believe that Catholicism, Protestantism, Nestorianism, etc. are all serious deviations from the True Church.  If I were to ever join a Christian group that isn't Orthodox, it would be for reasons other than faith.  And if I were to join a religion for something other than faith, I could probably pick a more interesting and free religion than some type of Christianity or Judaism, to convince myself of.

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would reject all of Christianity.  I would also reject the Jewish religion since the Christian is only a logical (to me) fulfillment of the Jewish.  That is why I would choose a religion that pre-dates even the Jewish and choose the Hindu or one of its derivatives.
Wouldn't the religion one would choose, depend upon the precise reason why one rejected Orthodoxy? If you rejected Orthodoxy for one reason, you might become Jewish; if for another reason, you might become Hindu.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #228 on: March 05, 2012, 02:37:14 PM »
I believe there is also a Zoroastrian temple somewhere in America, but I can't recall where I've read this.

Anyways, I voted Jewish.  If I were to lose faith in Orthodoxy, the only other Christian group I can possibly see as being true are the OO.  However, if 'Orthodox' is to mean EO and OO, then I would go with Orthodox Judaism.  The history of the Church leads me to believe that Catholicism, Protestantism, Nestorianism, etc. are all serious deviations from the True Church.  If I were to ever join a Christian group that isn't Orthodox, it would be for reasons other than faith.  And if I were to join a religion for something other than faith, I could probably pick a more interesting and free religion than some type of Christianity or Judaism, to convince myself of.

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would reject all of Christianity.  I would also reject the Jewish religion since the Christian is only a logical (to me) fulfillment of the Jewish.  That is why I would choose a religion that pre-dates even the Jewish and choose the Hindu or one of its derivatives.
Wouldn't the religion one would choose, depend upon the precise reason why one rejected Orthodoxy? If you rejected Orthodoxy for one reason, you might become Jewish; if for another reason, you might become Hindu.

Without Christianity to fulfill the Jewish religion, the whole "Chosen People" issue becomes BS.  Chosen for what?  To be the whipping boy of virtually every society that has come since?  Judaism has no meaning outside of Christ.  The Hindu have been around far longer, and actually make more sense.  Their cyclic view of time is also more sensible than our liner timeline, since virtually everything in nature operates on a cycle. 

So, I suppose that you are correct.  However, I can not see a reason that I would reject Christianity that would leave Judaism at all palatable.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #229 on: March 05, 2012, 04:14:32 PM »
great thread!

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #230 on: March 05, 2012, 05:29:12 PM »
I believe there is also a Zoroastrian temple somewhere in America, but I can't recall where I've read this.

Anyways, I voted Jewish.  If I were to lose faith in Orthodoxy, the only other Christian group I can possibly see as being true are the OO.  However, if 'Orthodox' is to mean EO and OO, then I would go with Orthodox Judaism.  The history of the Church leads me to believe that Catholicism, Protestantism, Nestorianism, etc. are all serious deviations from the True Church.  If I were to ever join a Christian group that isn't Orthodox, it would be for reasons other than faith.  And if I were to join a religion for something other than faith, I could probably pick a more interesting and free religion than some type of Christianity or Judaism, to convince myself of.

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would reject all of Christianity.  I would also reject the Jewish religion since the Christian is only a logical (to me) fulfillment of the Jewish.  That is why I would choose a religion that pre-dates even the Jewish and choose the Hindu or one of its derivatives.
Wouldn't the religion one would choose, depend upon the precise reason why one rejected Orthodoxy? If you rejected Orthodoxy for one reason, you might become Jewish; if for another reason, you might become Hindu.

Without Christianity to fulfill the Jewish religion, the whole "Chosen People" issue becomes BS.  Chosen for what?  To be the whipping boy of virtually every society that has come since?  Judaism has no meaning outside of Christ.  The Hindu have been around far longer, and actually make more sense.  Their cyclic view of time is also more sensible than our liner timeline, since virtually everything in nature operates on a cycle. 

So, I suppose that you are correct.  However, I can not see a reason that I would reject Christianity that would leave Judaism at all palatable.

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would have to reject all of Christendom, as well.  But I would be doing so because I could no longer believe Christ is Messiah, and if He is not Messiah, then He certainly can't be God.  However, there would be no reason from my point of view to reject Judaism, as its meaning wouldn't have changed since before Christ came; it would still be waiting for the messiah. 

However, if I were to go with a religion other than Judaism, it would probably be Zoroastrianism (though the Iranian Zoroastrians, of course, because the Parsees don't actually permit conversion). 
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #231 on: January 02, 2013, 08:21:36 AM »
This thread is too good to stay dead. :)

If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would have to reject all of Christendom, as well.

Likewise. I used to think I could survive, at least for a while, as a RC or Anglican, but closer contact has disabused me of that notion. I'd have to move into paganism, most probably Druidry. (Ironically, the OBOD branch concentrates on the link to the land, instead of the faith/ritual aspect, so it is actually possible to have Christian and Jewish Druids among them. Go figure.)
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #232 on: January 02, 2013, 09:13:18 AM »
I went with the majority this time.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 09:21:27 AM by Cyrillic »
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #233 on: January 07, 2013, 02:37:50 PM »
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #234 on: January 07, 2013, 02:41:40 PM »
If I were to reject Orthodoxy, I would have to reject all of Christendom, as well

and become an Anglican.


//:=)
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #235 on: January 07, 2013, 02:48:39 PM »
Islam is really cool when you see it the movies or on TV shows when they all do that simultaneous prostrating and ritual washing that is lit really well.

Islam is also really cool when you read its "philosophical" tradition and it teaches you everything the RCs have been holding on to for centuries and much more.

Islam is also really cool when you see all that architecture, calligraphy, and artsy stuff.

Islam is also really cool when you learn about it various alternatives to the "western" systemics of jurisprudence, economic systems, etc.

Then you read the Koran.

Or look at a youtube video by an American Islamic teacher and he sounds like the guy who tried really hard to be tough who you used to by crummy weed from in junior high.

Or see anything by Rumi or newage Sufism.

Then you realize Goethe musta had a guy who tried really hard to be tough selling him better weed.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #236 on: January 07, 2013, 02:56:47 PM »
I'd have to move into paganism, most probably Druidry.

Worshiping Celestia makes more sense.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #237 on: January 07, 2013, 02:59:05 PM »
Or see anything by Rumi....
You don't like Rumi? :o
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #238 on: January 07, 2013, 03:09:42 PM »
I might be Roman Catholic. But if not, I would definitely be Roman Pagan.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #239 on: January 07, 2013, 03:14:13 PM »
Or see anything by Rumi....
You don't like Rumi? :o

Sometimes you can't remove the context in which you found things sufficiently enough.

Rumi is on the shelf next to Wayne Dyer, Women who Run with Wolves, and Our Bodies, Our Selves. Edition XXIV. Now with your own speculum!
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #240 on: January 07, 2013, 03:46:19 PM »
I'd have to move into paganism, most probably Druidry.

Worshiping Celestia makes more sense.

That, and most "Druids" aren't really practicing anything other than neo-"celtic" crap.  If you must be a Celtic Neopagan, at least become a Celtic Recon. At least they stick to history.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #241 on: January 07, 2013, 03:51:54 PM »
Worshiping Celestia makes more sense.

Which one?

That, and most "Druids" aren't really practicing anything other than neo-"celtic" crap.  If you must be a Celtic Neopagan, at least become a Celtic Recon. At least they stick to history.

Please. I've been around recons. The quibbling would drive anyone nuts. Especially since there's very little to reconstruct, seeing as history says diddly squat (and myths, as is their wont, tangle like a cat toy).
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #242 on: January 07, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
Why do so many people here choose the Catholic? Is  Catholic closer or more similar to Orthodoxy by comparing with other christianity?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 03:55:51 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #243 on: January 07, 2013, 03:57:07 PM »
Quote
Please. I've been around recons. The quibbling would drive anyone nuts. Especially since there's very little to reconstruct, seeing as history says diddly squat (and myths, as is their wont, tangle like a cat toy).

Ha! Very good point. They do tend to sit around and bicker than they do practice. Or they just become walking encyclopedias. But, I actually prefer them to Hellenic Recons. Those people drive me nuts.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #244 on: January 07, 2013, 04:02:56 PM »
But, I actually prefer them to Hellenic Recons. Those people drive me nuts.

I've known decent HRs. YSEE members are NOT among those. More than driving people nuts, they ARE nuts.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #245 on: January 07, 2013, 04:09:20 PM »
Why do so many people here choose the Catholic? Is  Catholic closer or more similar to Orthodoxy by comparing with other christianity?

IMO the closest are Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy, but Catholicism and Orthodoxy are closer than most groups would be.

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #246 on: January 07, 2013, 04:14:16 PM »
But, I actually prefer them to Hellenic Recons. Those people drive me nuts.

I've known decent HRs. YSEE members are NOT among those. More than driving people nuts, they ARE nuts.

Never ran into those, but I'm looking at their website right now.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #247 on: January 07, 2013, 04:37:48 PM »
But, I actually prefer them to Hellenic Recons. Those people drive me nuts.

I've known decent HRs. YSEE members are NOT among those. More than driving people nuts, they ARE nuts.

Do they use dice or are we talking more simplified game mechanics? Like rock, paper, scissors?
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #248 on: January 07, 2013, 04:47:12 PM »
Do they use dice or are we talking more simplified game mechanics? Like rock, paper, scissors?

Knucklebones, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #249 on: January 07, 2013, 05:47:29 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors? Conventional religions are boring and overrated.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #250 on: January 07, 2013, 05:51:19 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors? Conventional religions are boring and overrated.

The religion of your people (Californians) is Scientology which is a huge step up from anything with the word pagan in it.
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #251 on: January 07, 2013, 05:52:36 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors?

Complete with human sacrifice?


Wow!
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #252 on: January 07, 2013, 05:53:29 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors? Conventional religions are boring and overrated.

The religion of your people (Californians) is Scientology which is a huge step up from anything with the word pagan in it.

Tom Cruise was in my closet
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #253 on: January 07, 2013, 05:53:39 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors? Conventional religions are boring and overrated.

The religion of your people (Californians) is Scientology which is a huge step up from anything with the word pagan in it.

He's talkin' 'bout his *ancestors*, not his *people*.   ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #254 on: January 07, 2013, 05:54:10 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors? Conventional religions are boring and overrated.

The religion of your people (Californians) is Scientology which is a huge step up from anything with the word pagan in it.

Tom Cruise was in my closet

Hope you weren't in there with him. ;D
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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #255 on: January 07, 2013, 06:00:50 PM »
How about an Aztec neo-pagan like my ancestors?

Complete with human sacrifice?


Wow!

It's California, they have a soy alternative. And unfortunately, it is not PEOPLE!
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #256 on: January 07, 2013, 06:04:07 PM »
Soylent Green is people.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #257 on: January 07, 2013, 06:06:44 PM »
Soylent Green is people.

Dude, it no longer does. It's even gluten free. It contains absolutely nothing, except Californians, which is to say nothing.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #258 on: January 07, 2013, 07:57:25 PM »
If neither Orthodox (EO/OO) nor their splinter groups, then probably Roman Catholic (traditionalist or sedevecantist). If not RC, then it'd be a toss-up between Pure Land Buddhism, Baha'i, Zoroastrianism, and Sikhism.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:59:29 PM by Nephi »

Offline Jetavan

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #259 on: January 07, 2013, 08:09:40 PM »
If neither Orthodox (EO/OO) nor their splinter groups, then probably Roman Catholic (traditionalist or sedevecantist). If not RC, then it'd be a toss-up between Pure Land Buddhism, Baha'i, Zoroastrianism, and Sikhism.
Why not become Jewish and pray for the Messiah?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline adampjr

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Re: What faith would you be if you weren't Orthodox?
« Reply #260 on: January 07, 2013, 08:18:12 PM »