Poll

Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?

Yes
79 (40.9%)
No
78 (40.4%)
Maybe
15 (7.8%)
Unsure
14 (7.3%)
Other (Explain)
7 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 193

Author Topic: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?  (Read 123444 times)

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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #405 on: October 18, 2008, 01:13:38 PM »
That's a very sobering story you shared with us, Presbytera! So very sad when adults intentionally mar those precious, fleeting years of childhood innocence and purity in such a manner.  I'm thankful my parents protected me as well as they did from such vulgarity and evil. Lord have mercy on us all!

Recently, a friend of mine was telling us how at her parish the priest holds a moleben to St. John of Kronstadt in the evening and afterwards the children receive lots of candy. This way they are occupied by a prayer service and can "brag" to their peers at school the next day about all the candy they received! I thought it was a wonderful, and very godly, alternative.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Myrrh23

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #406 on: October 18, 2008, 03:24:42 PM »
GreekChef, I WOULD have said something, as big-mouthed as I am! ;)
I probably would have even said to the mother that if she was going to make her kid dress up as a prostitute, I'd report her to child services, even if the store IS selling it! >:(
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #407 on: October 18, 2008, 11:10:34 PM »
Gabriel, that is so cool!! :o
Man, if I were younger, I'd so trick-or-treat at that house! You're so lucky to live there......I'm jealous. :(
Ummmm, I was kinda goin' for the opposite reaction. :-\  I think we've become sooo desensitized that we tend not to think twice when someone turns their front yard into a graveyard.  Beyond bizarre.  Like smoking. :)
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Offline Rosehip

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #408 on: October 18, 2008, 11:17:32 PM »
I agree about the desensitization part, Gabriel.  I spent several years in Eastern Europe, where people simply do not celebrate Halloween (what a relief!). How well I remember my first Halloween back here in North America! :o I was calmly walking down the street when suddenly, before my very eyes, in someone's front yard was a "man" with only the lower half of his body (waist down) above ground-legs skyward! I was literally terrified, thinking it was a real person in this distressing situation. All around him were "tombstones". It all seemed in very bad taste, and this was amplified by not having been exposed to such terrors for several years.
+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +

Offline Papist

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #409 on: October 20, 2008, 10:46:55 AM »
I think it's just cultural.
Don't we Orthodox do even stranger things than go around in fancy dress asking for candy?
Behind our Altars is the life-sized image of the Corpse of a Man Who was tortured to death by being nailed to a Cross. We eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. On Holy Friday night, we carry His symbolic Tomb in procession and venerate it. I was in Crete for Pascha in the late eighties, and they celebrate the Resurrection by hanging an effigy of Judas from a gallows and burning it with a bonfire at Midnight.
Being a Christian is so much fun.
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Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #410 on: October 20, 2008, 01:38:30 PM »
Mari, that story is simply appalling. I cannot fathom why a mother would choose to override the choice of innocuous costumes.

And GIC, what can I say? Every day I drive my daughter to school, and I see a bunch of pre- to barely-pubescent wearing clothing that says, "I am a sexual object." (The preferred boys' statement, by contrast, is "I am a slob.") Kids that age need a childhood.
I agree completely.

I agree completely.

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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #411 on: October 20, 2008, 04:07:42 PM »
For the discussion on prostitution, please go to this thread.

Pravoslavbob
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Offline AMM

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #412 on: October 28, 2008, 05:10:50 PM »
People do stupid stuff and have their kids exposed to inappropriate things 365 days a year.

I love watching Charlie Brown and taking my kids trick or treating.  So I will be celebrating.

Offline DanM

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #413 on: October 28, 2008, 08:03:41 PM »
As northern Europe and the British Isles became Christianized, the Church saw that the pagan
festivals still lured Christians to compromise their faith. One such was the Druidic New Year that
began on November 1. In the strictly Orthodox early Celtic Church, the Holy Fathers tried to
counteract this pagan new year festival by establishing the feast of All Saints on that same day (in
the East, this feast is celebrated on the Sunday after Pentecost).

I am pretty sure that the Pope Gregory III would have cared--if he had known--about what the Picts in the sticks were doing, but I can only claim absence of evidence.  Can you cite chapter and verse for the Christianization of Samhein?
Thanks, DanM

Offline Chacci

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #414 on: October 29, 2008, 04:13:47 PM »
So what's everyone doing for Halloween this year? Wanna do something? :)

This year, my family will go trick or treating on Friday - my kids are dressing up as Dorothy Gail(?), a Scarecrow, A SWAT team guy, and a Chile pepper.  Then on Saturday, after Vespers, we are celebrating a semi-traditional dia de los muertos, replete with marigolds, an altar with pictures of our loved ones, some tequila and posole.  We have invited our Priest with the rest of our Church to come over do a Trisagion to remember our loved ones.  As is traditional, those coming over will bring their loved ones favorite dish to share.

Your welcome to join us...

Chacci

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #415 on: October 29, 2008, 04:44:05 PM »
Quote
and a Chile pepper

Lol! Sweet :)

Offline Ebor

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #416 on: October 30, 2008, 11:21:11 AM »
So what's everyone doing for Halloween this year? Wanna do something? :)

This year, my family will go trick or treating on Friday - my kids are dressing up as Dorothy Gail(?), a Scarecrow, A SWAT team guy, and a Chile pepper. 

Those are some great costumes!  Re: the chili pepper, the second year our oldest went trick or treating (and the first time he decided on his own costume) he was an ear of corn.  That was an interesting bit of construction with a front of little yellow 'pillows' and a kind of cape that also was on his head in green that had a tuft of raffia as the silk.  Someone thought he was an alligator.  :D

I think Youngest will be a dinosaur again, while the oldest now 15 is 'too mature' to dress up, though he might take his brother (who doesn't like much candy but does like to visit and ring door bells) to a few houses in the neighborhood.  Our daughter is coming up with her own costume this year and at one point was going to be a sushi-roll (!).  Now I don't know what she has in mind.

On the pumpkin front, last year the teen carved the "Eye of Sauron" on his.  He's pondering what to do this year, but I think the Stargate is out because it could fall out if the base isn't big enough.   ;D

« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 11:26:46 AM by Ebor »
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #417 on: October 30, 2008, 11:29:50 AM »
Quote
and a Chile pepper

Lol! Sweet :)
They're actually more spicy than sweet. 8)
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Offline thetraditionalfrog

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #418 on: October 30, 2008, 03:11:39 PM »
For myself, not having any children it is a non issue. I'm going to join my parents for dinner then visit with them for the remainder evening.

Rather than "trick or treat", I much prefer the phrase from Scotland "The sky is blue, the grass is green, let us have our Halloween"!
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #419 on: November 01, 2008, 05:08:21 AM »
One of the best pieces on this issue I've read:
"Halloween Orthodoxy and Secular Culture"
By Fr. John Moses
Nov 1, 2008, 10:00

http://www.pravmir.com/article_408.html
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Offline DanM

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #420 on: November 01, 2008, 11:40:34 AM »
One of the best pieces on this issue I've read:
"Halloween Orthodoxy and Secular Culture"
By Fr. John Moses
Nov 1, 2008, 10:00
http://www.pravmir.com/article_408.html

I am not competent to address the spiritual issues raised in this article, but the parts of the article claiming to give the history of Halloween are just plain silly.
Please note that I do not label my statements rebuttals but counter-claims.  A rebuttal would require source citation, which I cannot afford to do, since I live a long ways from a proper library.

Claim 1.  "The feast of Halloween began among the Celtic peoples of Britain, Ireland, and northern France."
Counter-claim 1.  The feast of Halloween takes its origins from the dedication of a chapel in St. Peter's which was specially dedicated to ALL SAINTS.  The dedication date of that chapel was 1 November (8th century, year unknown).  Pope Gregory transferred the older feast of all martyrs from 13 May 609/610, which had been established by the dedication of the Pantheon by Pope Boniface IV.  It boggles my mind that Pope Gregory would have known or cared that 1 November was Samhein among the Picts in the sticks. 

Claim 2.  "These pagan peoples believed that physical life was born from death."
Counter-claim 2.  Maybe they did, but the Druids never wrote down what they believed, so we are not free to speculate.

Claim 3.  Therefore, they celebrated the beginning of the "new year" in the fall (on the eve of October 31 and into the day of November 1), when they believed, the season of cold, darkness, decay and death began.
Counter-claim 3.  Most people in the northern hemisphere do believe that cold, darkness, decay and death begin in the fall.  It's the time when things die.

Claim 4.  The Celts believed that a certain deity, whom they called Samhain, was the Lord of Death. To him they gave honor at their New Year's festival.
Counter-claim 4.  This is sheer nonsense.  Scholars are not in agreement with what Samhein means--beyond the reference to a minor hero whose magical cow was stolen--but there is no Lord of the Dead if you look for him beyond Chick publications or Internet resources.

Claim 5.  Many beliefs and practices were associated with this feast, which have endured to this current time.
Counter-claim 5.  The efforts of people to debunk Halloween and Christmas by connecting them with ancient pagan practices does not merely race ahead of the evidence, but soars into the the farthest reaches of Internet legend.  It takes a great deal of painstaking research to connect even fairly recent customs; the facile assumption that we are doing something just so because the Druids did it one, two or three thousand years ago is arrogant.

Claim 6.  On the eve of the New Year's festival, the Druids, who were the priests of the Celtic cult, instructed their people to extinguish all hearth fires and lights. On the evening of the festival they ignited a huge bonfire built from oak branches, which they believed to be sacred.
Non-rebuttal 6.  No idea.  This could be.

Claim 7.  Upon this fire, they offered burnt sacrifices of crops, animals,
Counter-claim 7.  Animals were in fact slaughtered and feasted on, if they were judged to be unable to survive the winter on meager rations.

Claim 8.  and even human beings
Rebuttal 8.  The Druids seem to have performed human sacrifice, if Caesar is to be believed (although he also reported that elk had no joints in their legs, so that the hunter need only saw most of the way through a tree against which his prey was known to sleep standing up; it was a matter of time before the tree fell down and the poor beast, like an unhorsed knight, could not get up and run away), but no evidence gathered by someone hardy enough to gather information beyond the confines of the Internet supports the contention that human sacrifice was specially done on Halloween.

Claim 9.  to appease and cajole Samhain, the lord of Death. They also believed that Samhain, being pleased by their faithful offerings, allowed the souls of the dead to return to homes for a festal visit on this day.
Counter-claim 9.  This is sheer stuff and nonsense. 

Claim 10.  This belief led to the ritual practice of wandering about in the dark dressed in costumes indicating ghosts, witches, hobgoblins, fairies and demons.
Counter-claim 10.  This is folk-etiology.

Claim 11.  The living entered into fellowship and communion with their dead by this ritual act of imitation, through costume and the wandering about in the darkness, even as the souls of the dead were believed to wander.
Counter-claim 11.  More folk-etiology.

Claim 12.  The dialogue of "trick or treat" is integral to Halloween beliefs and practices. The souls of the dead had--by Celtic tradition--entered into the world of darkness, decay, and death. They bore the affliction of great hunger on their festal visit. This belief brought about the practice of begging as another Celtic ritual imitation of the dead. The implication was that any souls of the dead and their imitators who are not appeased with "treats", i.e. offerings, will provoke the wrath of Samhain, whose angels and servants (the souls and human imitators) could retaliate through a system of "tricks" or curses. One radio commentator takes great fun in calling Halloween, "Begoween."
Rebuttal 12.  Loads more folk-etiology.

Claim 13.  The sacred fire was the fire of the New Year was taken home to rekindle lights and hearth fires.
Counter-claim 13.  This sounds more like the ROman custom.

Claim 14.  This developed into the practice of the Jack O Lantern (in the U.S.A.; a pumpkin, in older days other vegetables were used), which was carved in imitation of the dead and used to convey the new light and fire to the home, where the lantern was left burning throughout the night.
Counter-claim 14.  Even more folk-etiology.

Claim 15.  Divination was also part of this ancient Celtic festival. After the fire had died out the Druids examined the remains of the main sacrifices, hoping to foretell the coming year's events.
Counter-claim 15.  Divination was important in pagan society.  I would not be surprised if the Irish used Samhein the way that the English used Christmas--to tell the future.

Claim 16.  The Halloween festival was the proper night for sorcery, fortune telling, divination, games of chance, and Satan worship and witchcraft in the later Middle Ages.
Counter-claim 16.  Not that I can tell.

Let me sum things up. 
It is fun and easy to demonize things; it is very hard to do the kind of research necessary to support extravagant theses.  Most opponents of Halloween simply cite Internet sources; they do not go to a nice research library and do the incredibly hard work of finding evidence that is generally acceptable and piecing it together convincingly.  I have never known any opponent of Halloween refer to the standard sources of history, archeology or linguistics.  Nor will I ever, since the instant such an opponent turns to the cold, indifferent facts of history for support, he will be thrust back like a rejected suitor.  The assumption seems to be that by being on the side of the angels, one need not play by the rules.  I do not accept this.  If I am on the side of the angels, playing by the rules is all that matters; my shoddy scholarship or appeal to ignorance will discredit the angels if I do not play by the rules. 
DanM


Offline Ebor

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #421 on: November 01, 2008, 01:07:47 PM »
One of the best pieces on this issue I've read:
"Halloween Orthodoxy and Secular Culture"
By Fr. John Moses
Nov 1, 2008, 10:00
http://www.pravmir.com/article_408.html

Claim 2.  "These pagan peoples believed that physical life was born from death."
Counter-claim 2.  Maybe they did, but the Druids never wrote down what they believed, so we are not free to speculate.

You are correct, DanM, we do not have solid information on what druids and other non-Christian peoples of Ireland and the British isles believed.  For a scholarly look at this there is Ronald Hutton's book The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles

Quote
Claim 4.  The Celts believed that a certain deity, whom they called Samhain, was the Lord of Death. To him they gave honor at their New Year's festival.
Counter-claim 4.  This is sheer nonsense.  Scholars are not in agreement with what Samhein means--beyond the reference to a minor hero whose magical cow was stolen--but there is no Lord of the Dead if you look for him beyond Chick publications or Internet resources.

Quite so. There is no such a being/deity as "Samhain"/"Sowin" or however else it may be spelled. The word has a meaning along the lines of "summer's end" and varients of it mean "November" in Irish and Scots Gaelic.

http://www.savegaelic.org/gaelic/basic-scottish-gaelic.php
http://www.irish-sayings.com/cats/days/months/

Quote
Claim 5.  Many beliefs and practices were associated with this feast, which have endured to this current time.
Counter-claim 5.  The efforts of people to debunk Halloween and Christmas by connecting them with ancient pagan practices does not merely race ahead of the evidence, but soars into the the farthest reaches of Internet legend.  It takes a great deal of painstaking research to connect even fairly recent customs; the facile assumption that we are doing something just so because the Druids did it one, two or three thousand years ago is arrogant.

I have a post earlier in this thread that notes that some "practices" are only from the 1930's

Quote
Claim 6.  On the eve of the New Year's festival, the Druids, who were the priests of the Celtic cult, instructed their people to extinguish all hearth fires and lights. On the evening of the festival they ignited a huge bonfire built from oak branches, which they believed to be sacred.
Non-rebuttal 6.  No idea.  This could be.

The dousing of all fires and the kindling of one by "druids" occurs in the Spring, not the Fall.  This was the case when St. Patrick kindled the Easter fire which can be read in the Life of St. Patrick, section XL: 
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18482/18482-8.txt

Quote
Claim 7.  Upon this fire, they offered burnt sacrifices of crops, animals,
Counter-claim 7.  Animals were in fact slaughtered and feasted on, if they were judged to be unable to survive the winter on meager rations.

Indeed, it's common in agricultural societies to slaughter some animals and salt/smoke/dry the meat to feed the people as well.  Nothing 'spooky' or satanic about that at all.

Quote
Claim 8.  and even human beings
Rebuttal 8.  The Druids seem to have performed human sacrifice, if Caesar is to be believed (although he also reported that elk had no joints in their legs, so that the hunter need only saw most of the way through a tree against which his prey was known to sleep standing up; it was a matter of time before the tree fell down and the poor beast, like an unhorsed knight, could not get up and run away), but no evidence gathered by someone hardy enough to gather information beyond the confines of the Internet supports the contention that human sacrifice was specially done on Halloween.

Caesar and the Romans were, shall we say, not unbiased in how they would depict 'enemies'.  And again, we don't know what they did from their own words (Hutton)

Quote
Claim 9.  to appease and cajole Samhain, the lord of Death. They also believed that Samhain, being pleased by their faithful offerings, allowed the souls of the dead to return to homes for a festal visit on this day.
Counter-claim 9.  This is sheer stuff and nonsense. 

No such "god" and it occurs to me that there are similar feelings and beliefs about one's passed away loved ones in the Día de los Muertos celebrations in Mexico or the O-Bon in Japan and such days in other cultures.

Quote
Claim 13.  The sacred fire was the fire of the New Year was taken home to rekindle lights and hearth fires.
Counter-claim 13.  This sounds more like the ROman custom.

Spring time, see above and St. Patrick.

That's all I have time for, but DanM is correct.

Ebor
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #422 on: November 01, 2008, 04:12:07 PM »
Tee-hee, this is fun.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #423 on: November 02, 2008, 02:28:51 AM »
I'm surprised that Fr John Moses would repeat such twaddle. Clearly he lacks any scholarship in Celtic history and has fallen for fanciful reconstruction. I suppose these lies are titilating and much more fun than what we know of the truth, and no doubt the early Christians were bursting their sides laughing at the accusation that they were baby-murderers. Of course, modern Greeks I have spoken to do get somewhat irked that modern "history" suggests that the males of ancient Greece had wives to reproduce but preferred sexual intimacy with their own sex. Which, of course, is as much twaddle as Fr John's essay.

We are Christians; we should abhor lies and overturn them wherever we find them. Falsehood, isn't an innocent source for sport, even if such merely affects the long dead. Thank goodness there are those who still have the moral fortitude to defend a people long gone from the slander of this modern age. I thank both Dan and Ebor on behalf of my Celtic ancestors. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 02:39:37 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #424 on: November 02, 2008, 02:51:48 AM »
Guess you guys and gals don't like the piece, huh?  ;)
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Offline DanM

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #425 on: November 02, 2008, 03:10:14 AM »
Guess you guys and gals don't like the piece, huh?  ;)

Personally, my Celtic ancestors don't let me get any sleep. They are real sticklers for the Toulmin argument model.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #426 on: November 02, 2008, 05:29:00 PM »
Yes, please someone write a full rebuttal of these ridiculous claims.

But even if true, it has no relevance to todays culture.  For example, it seems that Christmas trees also had a dark past apparently (according to Wikipedia though, so I don't know).  Apparently, trees were used as a sacrifice shrine for the gods, where every ninth year, males of all species including men would be sacrificed.  When a Swedish Christian king refused to take part, after being deposed, he was happy to be among suffering in Christ's name.

Later St. Boniface dubbed the Christmas tree, which is in use till today.

And how relevant is this with today's culture?  Nothing but an extra piece of knowledge.  Just as no one today tricks and treats for the sake of Samhein, no one uses the trees we have as sacrifices.

Just one of the many reasons why we as Christians are laughed at as ignorant, not as the intellectual, practical, and understanding people of the past.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #427 on: November 02, 2008, 10:24:45 PM »
Yes, please someone write a full rebuttal of these ridiculous claims.

But even if true, it has no relevance to todays culture.  For example, it seems that Christmas trees also had a dark past apparently (according to Wikipedia though, so I don't know).  Apparently, trees were used as a sacrifice shrine for the gods, where every ninth year, males of all species including men would be sacrificed.  When a Swedish Christian king refused to take part, after being deposed, he was happy to be among suffering in Christ's name.

Later St. Boniface dubbed the Christmas tree, which is in use till today.

And how relevant is this with today's culture?  Nothing but an extra piece of knowledge.  Just as no one today tricks and treats for the sake of Samhein, no one uses the trees we have as sacrifices.

Just one of the many reasons why we as Christians are laughed at as ignorant, not as the intellectual, practical, and understanding people of the past.

^Excellent post. But I, for one, am simply fed up of repeatedly refuting stupid claims by willfully stupid people. As the axiom goes; "one can take a horse to water, but one can't make it drink". This nonsense about connections to pagan rituals (true or false) is simply the replaying of the guilt by association nonsense. It's fear mongering and I'm surprised by how many Christians fall for it. It's simple enough to check such claims before one repeats them as if it is the gospel truth, but it's almost as if such people rejoice in ignorance.

Anyway, I hope everyone who celebrates had a HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
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Offline DanM

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #428 on: November 02, 2008, 10:26:52 PM »
DIXIT  Yes, please someone write a full rebuttal of these ridiculous claims.
DICO  Not necessary.  How often do you accept an article in a journal at face value which demonizes without sources?  The difficulty of Halloween controversies is that demonization and poverty of citation are acceptable.  Even with the most carefully pieced together theses one often has to succumb to skepticism.

DIXIT  But even if true, it has no relevance to todays culture. 
DICO  This I believe was the reason St. Augustine claimed one had to tolerate the continuing celebration of the Lupercalia.

DIXIT  For example, it seems that Christmas trees also had a dark past apparently (according to Wikipedia though, so I don't know). 
DICO  Nego.  To the best of my knowledge, Christmas trees have never been more than stage-props for the re-enactment of the expulsion of Adam and Eve, which in the West was celebrated on December 24.  The earliest references to them are terribly late--I want to say 16th cent.  This is not to say that trees have been unimportant in pagan Europe.  Nor is this to deny that certain customs appear to descend from a benighted--or beforested--era.  It can also work the other way round:  I have heard that certain "witches" had "spells" which were really medieval blessings for various occasions (in Latin).

DIXIT  Just one of the many reasons why we as Christians are laughed at as ignorant, not as the intellectual, practical, and understanding people of the past.
DICO  If we can approach our flashes in the pan with the same erudition and consideration as our Fathers have always done, we would have nothing to be ashamed of.
DanM
« Last Edit: November 02, 2008, 10:27:49 PM by DanM »

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #429 on: November 02, 2008, 10:52:39 PM »
It's simple enough to check such claims before one repeats them as if it is the gospel truth, but it's almost as if such people rejoice in ignorance.

I think a major contributing factor is the "speed of information" these days, which is really the "speed of rumour". The internet is a great tool, but it's also a soapbox which amplifies the voice of every crack-pot, and will be of little use if we don't upload much more of the historical knowledge we have accrued through the ages (much like how ancient knowledge was kept alive in the Scriptoria of Western monasteries during the Dark Ages). At the moment, the internet is, for the most part a collection of editorials and "infotainment". Robert Wilensky once said "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #430 on: November 02, 2008, 11:00:21 PM »
Robert Wilensky once said "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."

 :laugh:
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #431 on: November 02, 2008, 11:32:11 PM »
Robert Wilensky once said "We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true."
I love it!  :laugh:
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline Ebor

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #432 on: November 05, 2008, 12:56:35 PM »
Guess you guys and gals don't like the piece, huh?  ;)

 ???  I'm a bit puzzled.  There are factual and historic errors in the piece.  Like or dislike may not apply at all when giving correct information.  May one ask why you thought it was such "one of the best pieces" please?

Ebor
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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #433 on: October 29, 2009, 01:02:47 AM »
*bump*

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #434 on: October 29, 2009, 01:05:08 AM »
^Stirrer!!  :laugh:
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #435 on: October 29, 2009, 01:14:42 AM »
^Stirrer!!  :laugh:
Clever! I love the use of the cloak of invisibility.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #436 on: October 29, 2009, 01:16:15 AM »


Rabble, rabble, rabble!


Looks like swine flu hysteria will likely put a halt to more Halloween festivities than religious convictions would.  :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 01:17:16 AM by Nebelpfade »
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #437 on: October 29, 2009, 02:22:55 AM »
Personally, I always disagreed with the idea of Christians keeping their doors closed on Halloween or segregating themselves from the world in order to have "Fall Festival" parties at their Churches on the same night. The way I see it, there is one day out of the year when strangers actually come to our houses and ask us for something. What a great opportunity that is for us to shine the Light of of Christ by:

1. Giving generously (even handing out candy or preferably healthy goodies is an act of generosity and kindness.)

2. Showing hospitality and demonstrating friendliness to our neighbors.

3. Handing out information about our Faith and inviting people to our Churches.

     For the past few Halloweens, our family has given out candy and treats along with small tracts I had printed with some Christian quotations from the great Emperor Haile Selassie. This year I might have some tracts printed up with an icon and the story of my Patron Saint. I just do these in black and white, and get them made at the local Kinkos. It's not expensive at all.

Anyway, I think Halloween affords us an opportunity to engage the world without being of the world. My children always enjoy giving out candy and tracts to the neighbors, and they never feel disadvantaged because they can't "trick or treat." We make some popcorn, watch some wholesome movies, and look forward to people coming to our door.

OK, that's my two cents on how to do things. :)

Selam
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #438 on: October 29, 2009, 03:59:15 AM »
^Stirrer!!  :laugh:
Clever! I love the use of the cloak of invisibility.

Yes! Get thee gone, O wicked practitioner of technological magic!! :laugh:
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Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #439 on: October 29, 2009, 04:07:36 AM »
 ;D  Hey, it's not my fault, I was forced into doing it. I was minding my own business on the "Who's Online" part of the forum, and saw a Guest/bot/whatever viewing this thread, and suddenly felt compelled--as though through some evil sorcery--to resurrect the thread.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #440 on: October 29, 2009, 05:01:13 AM »
Right.... you felt compelled!  :laugh:
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #441 on: October 29, 2009, 05:33:06 AM »
Lets see how many people we can get roped in to this thread by keeping it bumped up during this season.
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Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #442 on: October 29, 2009, 05:36:03 AM »
This issue came up this year, as my daughter is now of an age that she can actually participate. We were talking about how, in creating these Fall Festivals that follow all the same traditions of Halloween (games, candy, costumes), churches actually celebrate Halloween more than perhaps any other institution. It seems Protestant churches especially, though many of our Catholic churches locally as well, celebrate all of the civic holidays while neglecting the Christian holidays--including the ones Protestants normally celebrate. The Assemblies church I used to attend wouldn't even celebrate Christmas, "to give the pastor a day off with his family." I see something very hypocritical in a church that gets all worked up about people celebrating a civic holiday yet neglects to celebrate most of the Christian holidays. First focus on doing what's right yourself, and then you can preach to others against doing what's wrong.
"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Offline Tallitot

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #443 on: October 29, 2009, 07:00:47 AM »
Lets see how many people we can get roped in to this thread by keeping it bumped up during this season.


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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #444 on: October 29, 2009, 07:06:54 AM »
My daughter, the trick-or-treatin' princess  ;D
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 07:07:13 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline ms.hoorah

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #445 on: October 29, 2009, 07:32:00 AM »
^She is precious! 

My parents never let me celebrate Halloween. (This is the root of all my problems.)   
I told my kids that they were celebrating All Saints' Day with the Catholics (Nov 1).  ;)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 07:34:39 AM by ms.hoorah »

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #446 on: October 29, 2009, 08:05:38 AM »
*bump*

Shine a light (or in this case darker color) on it, and the vampire post is revealed!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 08:06:40 AM by pensateomnia »
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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #447 on: October 29, 2009, 08:20:51 AM »
My daughter, the trick-or-treatin' princess  ;D


She is gorgeous!
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #448 on: October 29, 2009, 10:49:27 AM »
*bump*

Shine a light (or in this case darker color) on it, and the vampire post is revealed!

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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #449 on: October 29, 2009, 11:07:34 AM »
My daughter, the trick-or-treatin' princess  ;D


Adorable!!  ;D
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