Poll

Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?

Yes
86 (38.2%)
No
92 (40.9%)
Maybe
18 (8%)
Unsure
19 (8.4%)
Other (Explain)
10 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 225

Author Topic: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?  (Read 221577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #855 on: October 12, 2016, 02:05:21 AM »
The Devil is also a popular Christmas personage.
I don't think so in Orthodox lands.

Please, don't lecture me how I celebrate Christmas. That's foolish.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,516
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #856 on: October 12, 2016, 02:17:37 AM »
The Devil is also a popular Christmas personage.
I don't think so in Orthodox lands.

Please, don't lecture me how I celebrate Christmas. That's foolish.
So... you have intentionally dressed as a devil with the conscious knowledge of your priests for Christmas?
My understanding is that kolyiady are not devils.
It's not really me trying to lecture you on this topic, please understand. I have no such desire, don't feel bad, please.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #857 on: October 12, 2016, 02:29:16 AM »
So... you have intentionally dressed as a devil with the conscious knowledge of your priests for Christmas?
My understanding is that kolyiady are not devils.

Note personally but it is done here. I was Herod once, though. Pretty sure in Ukraine oraz Russia as well. Your understanding is bad.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 02:30:41 AM by mike »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline wgw

  • All scorpions must DIE!!!
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,816
  • This icon is of St. Athansius.
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #858 on: October 12, 2016, 03:27:12 AM »
Nonetheless, Samhain may have involved human sacrifice, although this is not very clear one way or the other.

No.

Gaius Julius Caesar said the Britons engaged in human sacrifice.  Who are we to question the Imperator of Gaul and Cleopatra? 

By the way, I agree with the sentiment expressed that the focus on the physical decay is disturbing.  Specifically, costumes that evoke bodily corruption or traumatic injury, have always disturbed me.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,523
  • Hatred is learned behaviour.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #859 on: October 12, 2016, 04:45:11 AM »
Nonetheless, Samhain may have involved human sacrifice, although this is not very clear one way or the other.

No.

Gaius Julius Caesar said the Britons engaged in human sacrifice.  Who are we to question the Imperator of Gaul and Cleopatra?

We are those who have a) no vested interest to smack down the barbarians and annex their lands, and b) archaeological research at our disposal.

Samhain did not involve human sacrifices. It did involve rather large-scale slaughter of cattle, though. It's called 'culling the herd' and its objective is to maximise the chances of survival of both herds and humans through the winter.

On the other hand, Britons, very much like Romans, practised augury. If they felt the need to divine by examining human bodies, rather than animals, they must have been in dire straits. Like, oh, I don't know - having a foreign army invading their lands, perhaps?
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox

Offline sestir

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
    • Weihos Bokos
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: independent
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #860 on: October 12, 2016, 05:10:27 AM »
The point of how Catholics made and celebrate Halloween in a nutshell is that they dress up as freaky stuff like vampires, ghosts, etc. to say "Na-Ne-Na-Ne-Nah-Nah!" and "Haha!" to death with glee knowing that Christ conquered death and death no longer has power to rule. Is the idea of scoffing, laughing at, or mocking death because it's been defeated offensive in Orthodox Christianity?

Bumping and expanding this question ...

a) Is scoffing, laughing at or mocking death vital?
b) Is it necessary for salvation?
c) Is it useful in particular situations?
d) Is it supported by canonical scripture?
e) Could it give fellows a false impression of being safe for eternity when in fact they still need to work on their salvation? (1 Corintians 9:24-27)
f) Could this very positive thought of being sure to live forever be something that naïve people crave for?
g) How relevant are my questions a-f to Orthodoxy?

Offline LizaSymonenko

  • Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
  • Global Moderator
  • Hoplitarches
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,559
    • St.Mary the Protectress Ukrainian Orthodox Cathedral
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #861 on: October 12, 2016, 07:16:44 AM »
So... you have intentionally dressed as a devil with the conscious knowledge of your priests for Christmas?
My understanding is that kolyiady are not devils.

Note personally but it is done here. I was Herod once, though. Pretty sure in Ukraine oraz Russia as well. Your understanding is bad.

Mike I know what you are talking about - little chortyky. However, this is done outside of the Church. We have kolyada....and we've had Herod, etc as the story of the Birth is revealed...however, all forms of devilry has been frowned upon and forbidden.

It depends on the group of people. Are they celebrating Christmas for the real reasons, or is it just a fun time and a party.

My Church doesn't allow devils or fortune tellers to join the carrolers. 
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Alpo

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,291
  • Faith: Finnish Orthodox
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #862 on: October 12, 2016, 07:26:31 AM »
Where do they get these drawings?:

Thou shalt not google pictures without bothering to check the source.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1401143/
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Orest

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,465
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #863 on: October 12, 2016, 09:21:06 AM »
Hey, horror flicks are for life, not just for Halloween!

Putting this out again, since the topic crops up every year:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/10/ten-things-i-wont-do-on-halloween.html
Also this which I think is the most important piece on the Orthodox Church and Halloween:
http://www.daimonologia.org/2014/10/orthodoxy-and-halloween-separating-fact.html

Offline Luke

  • Formerly Gamliel
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,022
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #864 on: October 12, 2016, 09:44:20 AM »
^Interesting article.

Offline Saxon

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #865 on: October 14, 2016, 04:00:43 PM »
Is it ok to dress up in a fun costume and go around collecting candy? Yes.

Is it ok to make an animal sacrifice to Satan over a pentagram painted on the floor? No.

Common sense, really.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,247
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #866 on: October 14, 2016, 04:25:08 PM »
Is it ok to dress up in a fun costume and go around collecting candy? Yes.

Is it ok to make an animal sacrifice to Satan over a pentagram painted on the floor? No.

Common sense, really.

What about playing Manowar covers, for an entertainment charity party thing (all profits go to the war orphans fund), which was promoted by a parish, but does not take place on church property, and with a deacon playing drums, but no recognition of his position?  :police:
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 04:25:41 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline genesisone

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,906
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #867 on: October 14, 2016, 04:36:01 PM »
Is it ok to dress up in a fun costume and go around collecting candy? Yes.

Is it ok to make an animal sacrifice to Satan over a pentagram painted on the floor? No.

Common sense, really.

What about playing Manowar covers, for an entertainment charity party thing (all profits go to the war orphans fund), which was promoted by a parish, but does not take place on church property, and with a deacon playing drums, but no recognition of his position?  :police:
Don't ask. Don't tell.

Offline Saxon

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #868 on: October 14, 2016, 04:47:21 PM »
Is it ok to dress up in a fun costume and go around collecting candy? Yes.

Is it ok to make an animal sacrifice to Satan over a pentagram painted on the floor? No.

Common sense, really.

What about playing Manowar covers, for an entertainment charity party thing (all profits go to the war orphans fund), which was promoted by a parish, but does not take place on church property, and with a deacon playing drums, but no recognition of his position?  :police:

I'm partial to Rammstein myself, so I'll claim neutrality.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,227
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #869 on: October 15, 2016, 12:19:46 AM »
Recognize the position, but make sure he's not wearing vestments.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Justin Kolodziej

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 717
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #870 on: October 16, 2016, 01:18:50 PM »
I'm certainly no expert, but I would think an all-night vigil commemorating either the Holy Unmercenaries Cosmas and Damian, or St John of Kronstadt, would be an excellent Orthodox response. Singing all hymns in the grave tone would be meet and right  ;)

...However in the real world outside of Hyperdoxoslavia, what other day can I personally give something to more people who ask something of me and thus fulfill one command of Our Lord?
Quote from: Nun M.
The dread Pantocrator...is also "Christouli mou", (my little Christ), who really listens when you run in to your neighborhood church on the way to work to cry and light a candle because your daughter is in trouble at school. The untouchable and all-holy Mother of God is also "Panayitsa mou", who really will take your part before the court of heaven because, just like your own mom, she’ll always stick up for her children, no matter how badly they’ve behaved.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #871 on: October 16, 2016, 01:31:29 PM »
...However in the real world outside of Hyperdoxoslavia, what other day can I personally give something to more people who ask something of me and thus fulfill one command of Our Lord?

Don't you have beggars on the streets?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,523
  • Hatred is learned behaviour.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #872 on: October 19, 2016, 11:53:43 AM »
This came from a pagan FB page. Items on the list: 66. Items arguably inappropriate for Orthodox Christians: 4.

'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox

Offline TaiKamiya720

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • Favorite link: Relevant Magazine
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian(Catechumen)
  • Jurisdiction: ACROD/EP of Constantinople
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #873 on: October 19, 2016, 12:05:43 PM »
Personally, I'm most put off by the focus on (a) decay, (b) gore, and (c) "sexy" costumes.  Kids dressing up is one thing; glorifying the macabre is another.
The roots of modern Halloween actually does NOT glorify death and came from Roman Catholicism. The reason of dressing up and celebrating spooky scary stuff like skeletons, witches, and demons, etc. is to mock them  and poke at them with glee, knowing that Christ conquered death and that death no longer has power over us. Look up more here in this article: http://catholicexchange.com/reclaim-halloween
So Fr. George, how does the Orthodox Church view that specific idea of dressing up as and celebrating spooky scary stuff to poke at them, knowing Christ defeated them, and that they no longer have power over us?

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,096
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #874 on: October 25, 2016, 04:08:34 PM »
Personally, I'm most put off by the focus on (a) decay, (b) gore, and (c) "sexy" costumes.  Kids dressing up is one thing; glorifying the macabre is another.

The roots of modern Halloween actually does NOT glorify death and came from Roman Catholicism. The reason of dressing up and celebrating spooky scary stuff like skeletons, witches, and demons, etc. is to mock them  and poke at them with glee, knowing that Christ conquered death and that death no longer has power over us. Look up more here in this article: http://catholicexchange.com/reclaim-halloween

I am quite aware of the true roots of the holiday, and of the intent of many to mock death and the occult out of a triumphalist position.  But that's not why people dress up nowadays, a point certainly acknowledged by the author of the referenced article (which led to the title "Reclaim Haloween").

So Fr. George, how does the Orthodox Church view that specific idea of dressing up as and celebrating spooky scary stuff to poke at them, knowing Christ defeated them, and that they no longer have power over us?

The Orthodox Church doesn't have a view to it per se (although there are canons prohibiting cross dressing and other kinds of things that typically happen around Halloween in the US).  In some Orthodox countries the sentiment (mocking death and the occult through costume) is utilized at various points, I'm not sure that (a) I'm comfortable with it myself, (b) the Fathers would support it, and (c) I'd teach my kids to do the same.
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline TaiKamiya720

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • Favorite link: Relevant Magazine
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian(Catechumen)
  • Jurisdiction: ACROD/EP of Constantinople
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #875 on: October 26, 2016, 01:21:57 PM »
Personally, I'm most put off by the focus on (a) decay, (b) gore, and (c) "sexy" costumes.  Kids dressing up is one thing; glorifying the macabre is another.

The roots of modern Halloween actually does NOT glorify death and came from Roman Catholicism. The reason of dressing up and celebrating spooky scary stuff like skeletons, witches, and demons, etc. is to mock them  and poke at them with glee, knowing that Christ conquered death and that death no longer has power over us. Look up more here in this article: http://catholicexchange.com/reclaim-halloween

I am quite aware of the true roots of the holiday, and of the intent of many to mock death and the occult out of a triumphalist position.  But that's not why people dress up nowadays, a point certainly acknowledged by the author of the referenced article (which led to the title "Reclaim Haloween").

So Fr. George, how does the Orthodox Church view that specific idea of dressing up as and celebrating spooky scary stuff to poke at them, knowing Christ defeated them, and that they no longer have power over us?

The Orthodox Church doesn't have a view to it per se (although there are canons prohibiting cross dressing and other kinds of things that typically happen around Halloween in the US).  In some Orthodox countries the sentiment (mocking death and the occult through costume) is utilized at various points, I'm not sure that (a) I'm comfortable with it myself, (b) the Fathers would support it, and (c) I'd teach my kids to do the same.
Fr. George, my real question is does playing with and mocking spooky freaky stuff like ghosts with the intention of poking at death with glee, knowing Christ conquered it and death has no power contradics or offends the Orthodox Christian faith?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 01:23:00 PM by TaiKamiya720 »

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,594
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #876 on: October 26, 2016, 08:43:52 PM »
What do you think?
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #877 on: October 26, 2016, 09:28:02 PM »
If I had a nickel for every time that this question has been asked on this forum...  :P
God bless!

Offline Justin Kolodziej

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 717
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #878 on: October 26, 2016, 10:25:33 PM »
I suppose you could just buy some Death to the World zines and hand those out...those have some skulls in them   ;D
Quote from: Nun M.
The dread Pantocrator...is also "Christouli mou", (my little Christ), who really listens when you run in to your neighborhood church on the way to work to cry and light a candle because your daughter is in trouble at school. The untouchable and all-holy Mother of God is also "Panayitsa mou", who really will take your part before the court of heaven because, just like your own mom, she’ll always stick up for her children, no matter how badly they’ve behaved.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,595
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #879 on: October 26, 2016, 10:31:35 PM »
Just call it Fright Night already, a la Santa Day, as the religious component of these holidays is not only avoided but vigorously undermined by modern American customs.

As for those in the thread lamenting the more traditional aspect of the night: that hoi polloi should interact with its profound dreads by means of mockery and revelry -- well, this is inherent in the human soul if history is any indication. It may very well have some healing effect on the unconscious. Recall that non-Orthodox are often offended and disgusted by our funeral customs, our relics, and so on. Better to ignore the sterile modern sensibilities about these things or risk the accompanying sterilization of the human soul.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Ainnir

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,241
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #880 on: October 27, 2016, 07:32:07 AM »
Porter has a point; I had no idea there was a religious component until, well, now.  We celebrate because have always celebrated was the mindset I grew up with.  My issue is commercialism and seeming pointlessness.  All the holidays here are like that to some extent.  So it's more personal than religius for me.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,461
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #881 on: October 27, 2016, 09:12:10 AM »
Quote
Don John pounding from the slaughter-painted poop
- GK Chesteron, "Lepanto"

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Merarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,523
  • Hatred is learned behaviour.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #882 on: October 27, 2016, 09:59:51 AM »
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,096
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #883 on: October 27, 2016, 11:20:18 AM »
As for those in the thread lamenting the more traditional aspect of the night: that hoi polloi should interact with its profound dreads by means of mockery and revelry -- well, this is inherent in the human soul if history is any indication. It may very well have some healing effect on the unconscious. Recall that non-Orthodox are often offended and disgusted by our funeral customs, our relics, and so on. Better to ignore the sterile modern sensibilities about these things or risk the accompanying sterilization of the human soul.

I'm not sure that it's having the intended result though - the comfort with death, the sense that death is conquered, etc.  ISTM that we're living in a culture that is almost comically afraid of its own mortality; Halloween in a sense is more escapist and thrill-seeking (adrenaline from the frights) than it is a statement about our ability to grapple with the inevitability of corporal corruption.
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,096
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #884 on: October 27, 2016, 11:22:04 AM »
Fr. George, my real question is does playing with and mocking spooky freaky stuff like ghosts with the intention of poking at death with glee, knowing Christ conquered it and death has no power contradics or offends the Orthodox Christian faith?

I don't think it contradicts or offends the Faith, if that's what's actually being done (see my comment to Porter above).  But it isn't necessary, either - i.e. it doesn't make salvation easier, closer, etc.
I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.  

How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,595
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #885 on: October 27, 2016, 04:44:58 PM »
As for those in the thread lamenting the more traditional aspect of the night: that hoi polloi should interact with its profound dreads by means of mockery and revelry -- well, this is inherent in the human soul if history is any indication. It may very well have some healing effect on the unconscious. Recall that non-Orthodox are often offended and disgusted by our funeral customs, our relics, and so on. Better to ignore the sterile modern sensibilities about these things or risk the accompanying sterilization of the human soul.

I'm not sure that it's having the intended result though - the comfort with death, the sense that death is conquered, etc.  ISTM that we're living in a culture that is almost comically afraid of its own mortality; Halloween in a sense is more escapist and thrill-seeking (adrenaline from the frights) than it is a statement about our ability to grapple with the inevitability of corporal corruption.

Oh certainly. I agree wholeheartedly. The present holidays could have none of the traditional effects at all. I was speaking of the traditions as they might have been found in the American colonies or, more relevantly, in the Germany or Greece of several decades ago.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,595
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #886 on: October 27, 2016, 04:54:51 PM »
Porter has a point; I had no idea there was a religious component until, well, now.  We celebrate because have always celebrated was the mindset I grew up with.  My issue is commercialism and seeming pointlessness.  All the holidays here are like that to some extent.  So it's more personal than religius for me.

And I think this cuts to the root of the issue: Contemporary American holidays are symptoms of a vast void of culture and religion, for which a return to Orthodoxy would be the cure. And so the root question rather plainly becomes not "May I participate in this commercial event as an Orthodox?" but "Do I any longer need or want to?" And of course our answer will be affected a great deal by to what extent we have managed to incorporate the Church calendar into our lives and how many friends-in-Christ we have sharing that.

My little daughters celebrate because their mother wants them to and because their friends do, and I am not against this at all. Where my concerns are is on how well or poorly my home manages to offer a richness of Orthodox religion and culture, which I firmly believe will affect them throughout their lives but also affect their likes and dislikes even as little children.

To put it another way, we might use candy (appropriately enough) as a metaphor for Halloween and Santa: The intensity with which my little ones might ask the question, May we have candy, Papa? is going to be affected by how much they enjoy their larger diet -- is it wealthy in variety, health, and flavor, in appropriateness to the season, and so forth?  -- have they learned habits of eating and appreciating all the sorts of things put before them? I think you follow my metaphor here ...
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #887 on: October 28, 2016, 12:06:37 AM »
And I think this cuts to the root of the issue: Contemporary American holidays are symptoms of a vast void of culture and religion, for which a return to Orthodoxy would be the cure. And so the root question rather plainly becomes not "May I participate in this commercial event as an Orthodox?" but "Do I any longer need or want to?" And of course our answer will be affected a great deal by to what extent we have managed to incorporate the Church calendar into our lives and how many friends-in-Christ we have sharing that.

So accordingly to you if an Orthodox person "have managed to incorporate the Church calendar into their life" strong enough they won't be celebrating Halloween? Would celebrating Halloween make person not Orthodox enough?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,247
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #888 on: October 28, 2016, 12:43:36 AM »
OOPSIE
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 12:45:04 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline Ainnir

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,241
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #889 on: October 28, 2016, 07:35:55 AM »
mike, I think he's just drawing a distinction between "culture for culture's sake" which is how I'd describe a lot of what we do in America, and following the calendar which provides meaningful celebrations.  In the latter instance, there is something more fulfilling to compete with the former, which is really only distracting (maybe harmlessly so; mileage may vary).  And individuals might end up not caring quite so much about going "all out" on these holidays that no one properly marks anyway.  Since when did Memorial Day = pool parties and hot dogs?  The food metaphor was apt, I thought.  If all anyone is ever fed is candy, they are starving, but have no access to anything else.  Feed them what their body really craves, which are nutrients from whole food, and the candy craze will subside.  Though a little candy occasionally may be wise (candy being something that is not inherently bad, but also provides no good). 

Maybe I'm way off, but that's how I understood the whole post.   /shrug

Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #890 on: October 28, 2016, 10:31:40 AM »
Culture is not meaningless.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,584
  • It is honourable to reveal the works of God
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #891 on: October 28, 2016, 06:51:50 PM »
Although I don't see much of a problem in wearing costumes and stuff, I fear the normalisation of the occult among youth. Even if only a small minority of people who get into these aesthetics will end up in actual witchcraft, I still feel the dark aspects of Halloween are an unnecessary thing to perpetuate.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2016, 06:55:43 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,595
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #892 on: October 28, 2016, 11:47:56 PM »
Although I don't see much of a problem in wearing costumes and stuff, I fear the normalisation of the occult among youth. Even if only a small minority of people who get into these aesthetics will end up in actual witchcraft, I still feel the dark aspects of Halloween are an unnecessary thing to perpetuate.

Not a part of Hallowe'en in this country that I'm aware of. The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,000
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #893 on: October 29, 2016, 12:49:28 AM »
I am particularly fond of the John Sanidopoulos arguments for this subject.

Especially this.

+1000...I wish rather than some of our heirarchs waste their time condemning Halloween itself using Jack Chick theology (may God rest his soul), they should concentrate on these few issues, a lot of which overlap with other Christian feasts anyway
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #894 on: October 29, 2016, 01:55:19 AM »
The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.

Sounds like fun.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 01:55:44 AM by mike »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,595
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #895 on: October 29, 2016, 02:19:16 AM »
The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.

Sounds like fun.

Fun for your demons.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Seekingtrue

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 293
  • I no longer post on this forum
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #896 on: October 29, 2016, 03:33:51 AM »
The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.

Sounds like fun.
fun for psychopaths

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,227
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Re: Is it OK for an Orthodox Christian to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #897 on: October 29, 2016, 09:29:22 AM »
Since when did Memorial Day = pool parties and hot dogs?  T

Probably when more consumers had easier access to mass-produced hot dogs and above-ground pools.

Than God for Wal-Mart...I can purchase from a wide variety of both things.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,214
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #898 on: October 29, 2016, 10:13:12 AM »
The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.

Sounds like fun.
fun for psychopaths

Consider the source.
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #899 on: October 29, 2016, 10:24:57 AM »
Although I don't see much of a problem in wearing costumes and stuff, I fear the normalisation of the occult among youth. Even if only a small minority of people who get into these aesthetics will end up in actual witchcraft, I still feel the dark aspects of Halloween are an unnecessary thing to perpetuate.

Not a part of Hallowe'en in this country that I'm aware of. The dangers to young people are the usual with American "partying" -- substance abuse, date rape, joy in the appearance of debauchery, and cynical degrading humor and small talk that often comes close to blasphemy and always ensures an atmosphere of mutual sin.
I went to a Halloween party with my daughters. They painted plastic pumpkins and glued googly eyes on them. Then they got some candy corn. I count myself lucky that we were able to escape before the substance abuse and date rapes took place.
God bless!