Poll

Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?

Yes
79 (40.9%)
No
78 (40.4%)
Maybe
15 (7.8%)
Unsure
14 (7.3%)
Other (Explain)
7 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 193

Author Topic: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?  (Read 112777 times)

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #675 on: November 01, 2011, 02:55:30 PM »
bah, let the kids eat their candy...

even if it has been sacrificed to idols?

I thought it was sacrificed to our blood sugars, via the holy bowels, as a sweet savor of digestion to the microvilli.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 02:58:25 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #676 on: November 01, 2011, 03:07:32 PM »

Say what you will....and repeat a thousand times that Halloween doesn't have pagan roots....however, I will not believe it to be as innocent as all of you claim.

Don't get me wrong, I also went out and got candy as a kid (dressed only as a princess or angel)....and I know how much fun it really is.

However, with the exception of a few churches, does anyone actually believe that the multitudes are celebrating the Saints of Christ's Church on that day?  Really?

I went out last night with my nieces/nephews.....we had them collecting canned/packaged food for the homeless shelters in our area on behalf of the Orthodox Church League, in addition to the candy.  I was pleasantly surprised to have collected so much food that my entire back seat and floor is invisible!

However, walking around I also saw the ghouls and goblins.  I heard the eerie noises being emitted over loudspeakers, and the fake fog coming out from every bush.  I saw witches, vampires and devils.  I lost count of how many mini cemeteries I walked by in people's front lawns (some grotesquely too real)....not to mention the spiders, skeletons and werewolves.

What do any of these things have to do with Saints?  Do you honestly think the Saints are represented by these macabre items?  Honestly?  The bloody hatchet hanging from a doorway?  The chopped off bloody limbs strewn over the sidewalks...and the red "blood" oozing down the driveways?

Say what you will....it is fun....but, it is NOT Orthodox.
...and we should stop sugar coating it just so that we feel justified in celebrating the event.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #677 on: November 01, 2011, 03:14:50 PM »

Say what you will....and repeat a thousand times that Halloween doesn't have pagan roots....however, I will not believe it to be as innocent as all of you claim.

Don't get me wrong, I also went out and got candy as a kid (dressed only as a princess or angel)....and I know how much fun it really is.

However, with the exception of a few churches, does anyone actually believe that the multitudes are celebrating the Saints of Christ's Church on that day?  Really?

I went out last night with my nieces/nephews.....we had them collecting canned/packaged food for the homeless shelters in our area on behalf of the Orthodox Church League, in addition to the candy.  I was pleasantly surprised to have collected so much food that my entire back seat and floor is invisible!

However, walking around I also saw the ghouls and goblins.  I heard the eerie noises being emitted over loudspeakers, and the fake fog coming out from every bush.  I saw witches, vampires and devils.  I lost count of how many mini cemeteries I walked by in people's front lawns (some grotesquely too real)....not to mention the spiders, skeletons and werewolves.

What do any of these things have to do with Saints?  Do you honestly think the Saints are represented by these macabre items?  Honestly?  The bloody hatchet hanging from a doorway?  The chopped off bloody limbs strewn over the sidewalks...and the red "blood" oozing down the driveways?

Say what you will....it is fun....but, it is NOT Orthodox.
...and we should stop sugar coating it just so that we feel justified in celebrating the event.



I, for one, can respect this critique of Halloween.  I don't totally agree with it (because damn near NOTHING we do glorifies God no matter how much we want to sugar coat it), but at least it's not spreading lies about the origins of this annual event.

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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #678 on: November 01, 2011, 03:19:03 PM »
So....lemonheads =



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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #679 on: November 01, 2011, 03:33:41 PM »

Say what you will....and repeat a thousand times that Halloween doesn't have pagan roots....however, I will not believe it to be as innocent as all of you claim.

Don't get me wrong, I also went out and got candy as a kid (dressed only as a princess or angel)....and I know how much fun it really is.

However, with the exception of a few churches, does anyone actually believe that the multitudes are celebrating the Saints of Christ's Church on that day?  Really?

I went out last night with my nieces/nephews.....we had them collecting canned/packaged food for the homeless shelters in our area on behalf of the Orthodox Church League, in addition to the candy.  I was pleasantly surprised to have collected so much food that my entire back seat and floor is invisible!

However, walking around I also saw the ghouls and goblins.  I heard the eerie noises being emitted over loudspeakers, and the fake fog coming out from every bush.  I saw witches, vampires and devils.  I lost count of how many mini cemeteries I walked by in people's front lawns (some grotesquely too real)....not to mention the spiders, skeletons and werewolves.

What do any of these things have to do with Saints?  Do you honestly think the Saints are represented by these macabre items?  Honestly?  The bloody hatchet hanging from a doorway?  The chopped off bloody limbs strewn over the sidewalks...and the red "blood" oozing down the driveways?

Say what you will....it is fun....but, it is NOT Orthodox.
...and we should stop sugar coating it just so that we feel justified in celebrating the event.



It's not about "pagan roots." Christmas has pagan roots. It's about the aspects of disorderliness and fixation on darkness which the modern celebration of Halloween (trick-or-treating/costumes) often evokes. However, Halloween itself is more than that, just as Christmas is more than the birthday of Mithras.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #680 on: November 01, 2011, 03:42:26 PM »

That's exactly what I am saying.

The roots of the holiday do not come in to play here.

...I am more concerned as to what it has morphed into, then as what it began.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #681 on: November 01, 2011, 04:03:56 PM »
To me, Halloween is just a celebration of good humor and laughter, nothing more.

Are you still angry about children extorting candy from you, though?

No.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #682 on: November 01, 2011, 04:12:31 PM »
Here's a pumpkin carving idea for this year:



It's been a while since this post, but it still blows my mind.  :)
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #683 on: November 01, 2011, 06:34:24 PM »

Say what you will....and repeat a thousand times that Halloween doesn't have pagan roots....however, I will not believe it to be as innocent as all of you claim.

Don't get me wrong, I also went out and got candy as a kid (dressed only as a princess or angel)....and I know how much fun it really is.

However, with the exception of a few churches, does anyone actually believe that the multitudes are celebrating the Saints of Christ's Church on that day?  Really?

I went out last night with my nieces/nephews.....we had them collecting canned/packaged food for the homeless shelters in our area on behalf of the Orthodox Church League, in addition to the candy.  I was pleasantly surprised to have collected so much food that my entire back seat and floor is invisible!

However, walking around I also saw the ghouls and goblins.  I heard the eerie noises being emitted over loudspeakers, and the fake fog coming out from every bush.  I saw witches, vampires and devils.  I lost count of how many mini cemeteries I walked by in people's front lawns (some grotesquely too real)....not to mention the spiders, skeletons and werewolves.

What do any of these things have to do with Saints?  Do you honestly think the Saints are represented by these macabre items?  Honestly?  The bloody hatchet hanging from a doorway?  The chopped off bloody limbs strewn over the sidewalks...and the red "blood" oozing down the driveways?

Say what you will....it is fun....but, it is NOT Orthodox.
...and we should stop sugar coating it just so that we feel justified in celebrating the event.


Well, then, let's take back our holiday!
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #684 on: November 01, 2011, 06:38:45 PM »

I'm good with that!    Let's!!!
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #685 on: November 01, 2011, 06:58:40 PM »
Oh, no, not that Lord of Death stuff again. Samhain is not a person, not even in the sense that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are persons but an Anglicising of samhuinn which means November. I realise that to a non-Gaelic speaker it might be hard not to think Sam Hain but try. Also try to remember that as little as we know of Celtic deities they don't usually have names you can find in the phone book. I was trained as an ethnologist and I have an interest in the calendars and folk customs of the British Isles and in all seriousness that article on the ROCOR site is sheer tripe. If anything 'samhain' is a feast of light. It's a fire festival, fire to push back the cold and the dark, remember we're talking about fairly primitive people, subsistence farmers for whom death by freezing and starvation was very real. There are a whole string of fire festivals in Britain over the winter - Michaelmas, St Katherine's Day, Hallowe'en, Martinmass, Hogmonay, St Bride's Day - and they've all got a heck of a lot more to do with being frightened of the cold and the dark than daft Lords of Death and associated nonsense.

Margaret

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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Bowl of Petunias with candy corn
« Reply #686 on: November 01, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »
Thank you Margaret for beating me to the punch on the "Samhain" clap-trap  :)
I was delayed by fighting the impulse to get a keyboard shaped dent in my forehead again.

Over in the other Halloween thread that's been around a while, I and another person went over the nonsense that gets spouted about this and some of the Real History and what real human beings have done during seasons and changes and that in a world where the only source of human made light and heat was fire, the coming of the darker days and winter lead to things like feasts and events to keep the light and life going.   The circle of the year or as Ronald Hutton put in "The Stations of the Sun" were what people lived by: Spring and planting, Summer and growth, Fall and Harvest against the cold and dark of winter...

And we really do NOT know much about the Druids' beliefs or the Anglo-Saxon's either..

Ebor (wondering if in a few months the "Eostre" as an Anglo-Saxon "goddess' codswollop will be back too.)





I've been trying to bring reason to this topic on the other thread. <head shaped dent in keyboard, here>
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #687 on: November 01, 2011, 07:02:27 PM »
[shameless self promotion] The latest post on my blog talks about the common misconceptions of Halloween and the origins of said holiday (to a degree). [/shameless self promotion]

I agree that Halloween is not in and of itself evil, it started off as an Orthodox holiday that got merged with the existing folklore of Scotland and Ireland which then transferred to the States as the Scots and Irish migrated.



 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #688 on: November 01, 2011, 07:06:27 PM »

That's exactly what I am saying.

The roots of the holiday do not come in to play here.

...I am more concerned as to what it has morphed into, then as what it began.

But if someone gets blind drunk on Christmas and beats their kids, we don't call for a cancellation of the feast and use its pagan roots as a reason.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #689 on: November 01, 2011, 07:07:25 PM »

Say what you will....and repeat a thousand times that Halloween doesn't have pagan roots....however, I will not believe it to be as innocent as all of you claim.

Don't get me wrong, I also went out and got candy as a kid (dressed only as a princess or angel)....and I know how much fun it really is.

However, with the exception of a few churches, does anyone actually believe that the multitudes are celebrating the Saints of Christ's Church on that day?  Really?

I went out last night with my nieces/nephews.....we had them collecting canned/packaged food for the homeless shelters in our area on behalf of the Orthodox Church League, in addition to the candy.  I was pleasantly surprised to have collected so much food that my entire back seat and floor is invisible!

However, walking around I also saw the ghouls and goblins.  I heard the eerie noises being emitted over loudspeakers, and the fake fog coming out from every bush.  I saw witches, vampires and devils.  I lost count of how many mini cemeteries I walked by in people's front lawns (some grotesquely too real)....not to mention the spiders, skeletons and werewolves.

What do any of these things have to do with Saints?  Do you honestly think the Saints are represented by these macabre items?  Honestly?  The bloody hatchet hanging from a doorway?  The chopped off bloody limbs strewn over the sidewalks...and the red "blood" oozing down the driveways?

Say what you will....it is fun....but, it is NOT Orthodox.
...and we should stop sugar coating it just so that we feel justified in celebrating the event.


Well, then, let's take back our holiday!

Doesn't anyone read my posts!!?? I've been saying this. <sigh, mutter, mutter>
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Offline genesisone

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #690 on: November 01, 2011, 07:29:02 PM »

 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)
Hint: look at his signature line.

Offline britgirl

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #691 on: November 01, 2011, 07:53:13 PM »
http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/2011-10-26-halloween.php

I found this priest's perspective fascinating and a change from the condemnation of Halloween from the Charismatic movement I was in when I was 12-17.

His overall point:
Quote
What’s my point? You can’t judge a custom by its origins. What counts is one’s intention in the here and now. And let’s be honest: modern Halloween for you and me—and even the Wiccans down the street—has nothing to do with virgin sacrifice or black magic. It’s about having fun in a costume and eating things your dentist wouldn’t approve of.
:D
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #692 on: November 01, 2011, 08:15:12 PM »

 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)
Hint: look at his signature line.

 :laugh: Thanks! Completely missed that! duh!  :-[
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #693 on: November 01, 2011, 08:22:24 PM »

That's exactly what I am saying.

The roots of the holiday do not come in to play here.

...I am more concerned as to what it has morphed into, then as what it began.

But if someone gets blind drunk on Christmas and beats their kids, we don't call for a cancellation of the feast and use its pagan roots as a reason.

Your example is one drunk idiot beating his kids.  Halloween has many unwise individuals who play with the occult. 

I simply cannot support people and their kids dressing as satan and running around.  Sorry.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #694 on: November 01, 2011, 08:24:16 PM »
http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/2011-10-26-halloween.php

I found this priest's perspective fascinating and a change from the condemnation of Halloween from the Charismatic movement I was in when I was 12-17.

His overall point:
Quote
What’s my point? You can’t judge a custom by its origins. What counts is one’s intention in the here and now. And let’s be honest: modern Halloween for you and me—and even the Wiccans down the street—has nothing to do with virgin sacrifice or black magic. It’s about having fun in a costume and eating things your dentist wouldn’t approve of.
:D

Thanks for sharing this, britgirl.

I was used to hearing *satanic* nonsense repeated in Protestantism. Didn't expect to find it in Orthodoxy. Those rose-coloured spectacles, you know. So it came as quite a shock. The first time I encountered it was the first Christmas our family was Orthodox and being told that we shouldn't have a Christmas tree. When I heard the fundy propoganda, regarding how pagan a Christmas tree was, from Orthodox lips, it was disappointing, to say the least. Fortunately, the parish we were at hadn't heard and had a Christmas tree in the hall, anyway.  ;D

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #695 on: November 01, 2011, 08:29:31 PM »

That's exactly what I am saying.

The roots of the holiday do not come in to play here.

...I am more concerned as to what it has morphed into, then as what it began.

But if someone gets blind drunk on Christmas and beats their kids, we don't call for a cancellation of the feast and use its pagan roots as a reason.

Your example is one drunk idiot beating his kids.  Halloween has many unwise individuals who play with the occult. 

I simply cannot support people and their kids dressing as satan and running around.  Sorry.



What wrong with dressing as St. Peter?

Another thing people are really confused by: Satan / The Evil One.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #696 on: November 01, 2011, 08:33:11 PM »

That's exactly what I am saying.

The roots of the holiday do not come in to play here.

...I am more concerned as to what it has morphed into, then as what it began.

But if someone gets blind drunk on Christmas and beats their kids, we don't call for a cancellation of the feast and use its pagan roots as a reason.

Your example is one drunk idiot beating his kids.  Halloween has many unwise individuals who play with the occult. 

I simply cannot support people and their kids dressing as satan and running around.  Sorry.



Halloween isn't about the occult, no more than Christmas is worshipping Mithras in a shower of blood. If many individuals misuse the holiday, that's just as much their problem as the drunk on Christmas. And I didn't attach a gender to my comment, because women get drunk and beat their kids, too.

That aside, I respect your decision, although All Hallows has always included dressing as saints and devils, both. It's up to the individual. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable judging someone on their choice of costume, which is what so much anti-Halloween literature does.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #697 on: November 01, 2011, 08:41:28 PM »

Fine, the woman hits her kids.  It's still not comparable to what goes on during Halloween.

I am just amazed at everyone's need to defend Halloween which isn't even one of the major Feast Days of the Church. 

...and having people dress as saints and devils....still doesn't bode well for those dressing as devils.  Why would you ever need to dress as a devil?

Why put up tomb stones in your front yard?

Why all the horrible noises, whining and groaning, as if from Hell?

Say what you will, but, that IS what Halloween has turned into. 

I've said my piece.  I am fine with kids dressing up in non-evil costumes (and yes, I think satan is evil) and having some fun.

However, I will not approve of all the blood and gore.

You may all continue on your journey of celebrating and applauding Halloween for something it isn't.


Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #698 on: November 01, 2011, 08:45:08 PM »
[shameless self promotion] The latest post on my blog talks about the common misconceptions of Halloween and the origins of said holiday (to a degree). [/shameless self promotion]

I agree that Halloween is not in and of itself evil, it started off as an Orthodox holiday that got merged with the existing folklore of Scotland and Ireland which then transferred to the States as the Scots and Irish migrated.



 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)

Happened upon your blog the other day, not knowing it was yours. Good to read. I hope I don't break any rules if I emphasise this...

In conclusion, Halloween was not another Christian holiday with pagan overtones so the Church could get more converts. Samhain was never exclusively set aside for the night of October 31. That people do use Halloween as a night of darkness to commit horrible acts is not evidence that Halloween started as a pagan celebration, but evidence that we let the media and card companies (and Sears the first company to market Halloween costumes) take over yet another Christian holiday and that we failed to hold onto another sacred day. Halloween never started off as a pagan celebration, but a Christian one to commemorate all the saints, but the folklore of the surrounding area integrated with the Christian holiday (as oft times happens, and more on this later during the Christmas season); so go out there and celebrate this Christian holiday with the knowledge that those neo-pagans sacrificing unicorns and kittens are posers and thieves who can't even invent their own proper holiday but have to steal one from us, and then accuse us of stealing their holiday! http://lifeofanorthodoxsoldier.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-halloween.html#more
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
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Offline Melodist

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #699 on: November 01, 2011, 08:46:13 PM »
bah, let the kids eat their candy...
even if it has been sacrificed to idols?

Ask not for conscience sake.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #700 on: November 01, 2011, 08:49:11 PM »
http://www.stmaryorthodoxchurch.org/orthodoxy/articles/2011-10-26-halloween.php

I found this priest's perspective fascinating and a change from the condemnation of Halloween from the Charismatic movement I was in when I was 12-17.

His overall point:
Quote
What’s my point? You can’t judge a custom by its origins. What counts is one’s intention in the here and now. And let’s be honest: modern Halloween for you and me—and even the Wiccans down the street—has nothing to do with virgin sacrifice or black magic. It’s about having fun in a costume and eating things your dentist wouldn’t approve of.
:D
Do you realize you just posted a link to the same essay that Fr. Chris quoted earlier? ;)
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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #701 on: November 01, 2011, 09:21:41 PM »
Quote
Do you realize you just posted a link to the same essay that Fr. Chris quoted earlier? ;)
I did not! Do alter my post if necessary, then!  :) Sorry.
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #702 on: November 01, 2011, 09:31:12 PM »
bah, let the kids eat their candy...

even if it has been sacrificed to idols?

I thought it was sacrificed to our blood sugars, via the holy bowels, as a sweet savor of digestion to the microvilli.

Only in Orthodoxy...You could tempt a girl to convert writing digestive doxologies like this one!!

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #703 on: November 01, 2011, 10:18:09 PM »
Through the GOARCH website another opinion is offered:

Quote
Well, good Orthodox Christian, what should our Church make of this controversy?  Is Halloween something we Christians should shun like the Black Mass?  Don’t the facts about Halloween’s origins prove that it is an abomination?

No.  First of all, none of these “facts” are true.  It’s all fiction...

Sorry, Fr Chris, I missed this, too!  :-[
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #704 on: November 01, 2011, 10:51:03 PM »
Through the GOARCH website another opinion is offered:

Quote
Well, good Orthodox Christian, what should our Church make of this controversy?  Is Halloween something we Christians should shun like the Black Mass?  Don’t the facts about Halloween’s origins prove that it is an abomination?

No.  First of all, none of these “facts” are true.  It’s all fiction...

Sorry, Fr Chris, I missed this, too!  :-[

It's OK, Britgirl and Riddikulus....there is a reason I'm the Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net!  :D
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #705 on: November 01, 2011, 11:13:19 PM »
Through the GOARCH website another opinion is offered:

Quote
Well, good Orthodox Christian, what should our Church make of this controversy?  Is Halloween something we Christians should shun like the Black Mass?  Don’t the facts about Halloween’s origins prove that it is an abomination?

No.  First of all, none of these “facts” are true.  It’s all fiction...

Sorry, Fr Chris, I missed this, too!  :-[

It's OK, Britgirl and Riddikulus....there is a reason I'm the Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net!  :D

 :laugh:
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #706 on: November 01, 2011, 11:36:19 PM »
Here's a pumpkin carving idea for this year:



It's been a while since this post, but it still blows my mind.  :)

Amazing!


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Offline dcommini

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #707 on: November 01, 2011, 11:41:04 PM »
[shameless self promotion] The latest post on my blog talks about the common misconceptions of Halloween and the origins of said holiday (to a degree). [/shameless self promotion]

I agree that Halloween is not in and of itself evil, it started off as an Orthodox holiday that got merged with the existing folklore of Scotland and Ireland which then transferred to the States as the Scots and Irish migrated.



 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)

Happened upon your blog the other day, not knowing it was yours. Good to read. I hope I don't break any rules if I emphasise this...

In conclusion, Halloween was not another Christian holiday with pagan overtones so the Church could get more converts. Samhain was never exclusively set aside for the night of October 31. That people do use Halloween as a night of darkness to commit horrible acts is not evidence that Halloween started as a pagan celebration, but evidence that we let the media and card companies (and Sears the first company to market Halloween costumes) take over yet another Christian holiday and that we failed to hold onto another sacred day. Halloween never started off as a pagan celebration, but a Christian one to commemorate all the saints, but the folklore of the surrounding area integrated with the Christian holiday (as oft times happens, and more on this later during the Christmas season); so go out there and celebrate this Christian holiday with the knowledge that those neo-pagans sacrificing unicorns and kittens are posers and thieves who can't even invent their own proper holiday but have to steal one from us, and then accuse us of stealing their holiday! http://lifeofanorthodoxsoldier.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-halloween.html#more

How did you just happen upon my blog?  :o I was under the impression that it was hidden somewhere in the recesses of the web that only those who are lost and wondering ever happen upon it.

But seriously glad to know that you enjoyed reading it enough to quote it  ;D
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #708 on: November 02, 2011, 12:54:24 AM »
[shameless self promotion] The latest post on my blog talks about the common misconceptions of Halloween and the origins of said holiday (to a degree). [/shameless self promotion]

I agree that Halloween is not in and of itself evil, it started off as an Orthodox holiday that got merged with the existing folklore of Scotland and Ireland which then transferred to the States as the Scots and Irish migrated.



 :laugh: Where is your blog? (Am I allowed to ask that?)

Happened upon your blog the other day, not knowing it was yours. Good to read. I hope I don't break any rules if I emphasise this...

In conclusion, Halloween was not another Christian holiday with pagan overtones so the Church could get more converts. Samhain was never exclusively set aside for the night of October 31. That people do use Halloween as a night of darkness to commit horrible acts is not evidence that Halloween started as a pagan celebration, but evidence that we let the media and card companies (and Sears the first company to market Halloween costumes) take over yet another Christian holiday and that we failed to hold onto another sacred day. Halloween never started off as a pagan celebration, but a Christian one to commemorate all the saints, but the folklore of the surrounding area integrated with the Christian holiday (as oft times happens, and more on this later during the Christmas season); so go out there and celebrate this Christian holiday with the knowledge that those neo-pagans sacrificing unicorns and kittens are posers and thieves who can't even invent their own proper holiday but have to steal one from us, and then accuse us of stealing their holiday! http://lifeofanorthodoxsoldier.blogspot.com/2011/10/on-halloween.html#more

How did you just happen upon my blog?  :o I was under the impression that it was hidden somewhere in the recesses of the web that only those who are lost and wondering ever happen upon it.

But seriously glad to know that you enjoyed reading it enough to quote it  ;D

I'm not sure how I managed to hit your blog! Perhaps I was lost and wandering?  Knowing me.... :-[ But yes, it was very good!
I believe in One God, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Theodosius Dobzhansky, Russian Orthodox Christian (1900-1975)

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #709 on: November 02, 2011, 12:36:39 PM »
bah, let the kids eat their candy...

even if it has been sacrificed to idols?

I thought it was sacrificed to our blood sugars, via the holy bowels, as a sweet savor of digestion to the microvilli.

Only in Orthodoxy...You could tempt a girl to convert writing digestive doxologies like this one!!
;D :laugh:
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #710 on: November 02, 2011, 02:37:36 PM »

Fine, the woman hits her kids.  It's still not comparable to what goes on during Halloween.

I am just amazed at everyone's need to defend Halloween which isn't even one of the major Feast Days of the Church. 

...and having people dress as saints and devils....still doesn't bode well for those dressing as devils.  Why would you ever need to dress as a devil?

Why put up tomb stones in your front yard?

Why all the horrible noises, whining and groaning, as if from Hell?

Say what you will, but, that IS what Halloween has turned into. 

I've said my piece.  I am fine with kids dressing up in non-evil costumes (and yes, I think satan is evil) and having some fun.

However, I will not approve of all the blood and gore.

You may all continue on your journey of celebrating and applauding Halloween for something it isn't.




I'm with you Liza.


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Offline katherine 2001

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #711 on: November 02, 2011, 09:10:07 PM »
My favorite is the Milky Way bars.  Heath Bars and Reese's Peanut Butter cups follow right behind Milky Way, though.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #712 on: November 02, 2011, 09:15:42 PM »
I'm sorry, this has to stop. This thread is becoming way too calorific!  :police:
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #713 on: November 02, 2011, 10:52:32 PM »
There was no deity called Samhain who was the Lord of Death. Both His Grace Bishop Kyrill (in his own article) and Bishop Alexander have picked up this canard from who knows where. 
 
Let's not take up arms against the resurgence of paganism by equipping our people with false "truths".  There is quite a lot of misinformation in this article and in the name of truth it ought to be rewritten. If we are to fight neo-paganism we shan't do it by offering people false information. The neo-pagans will just laugh at us, and rightly so.


Samhain is pronounced "sow-in" (where "ow" rhymes with "cow").  Samhain is simply Irish Gaelic for the month of November. 
 
The god Samhain myth first appears in the year 1770 when Col. Charles Vallency wrote a 6 volume set of books which attempted to prove that the Irish people once came from Armenia!!    Geoffrey Higgins then  promoted this error of a supposed god Samhain in a book in 1827 when  he attempted to prove that the Druids originally came from India. The error might have originated in confusion over the name of Samana, an ancient Vedic/Hindu deity.

I have located a website which may not be everyone's favourite but it will provide a resource if anybody has the interest in dealing with this modern myth of a god named Samhain

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_sa.htm


On reflection I think that what irritates me is that the modern practice of Halloween is an *American* creation, but the blasphemy of it all is being unfairly laid upon my poor Irish ancestors!

In pre-Christian Ireland the feast of Samhain was nothing as wicked as what the bishop's article speaks of with the modern America celebration of this day.

In Ireland it provided the occasion for the great Feis (Parliament) at Tara where all the kings and druidic scholars (olamhs) gathered for a week to revise the laws and make new laws and to oversee the writing of another section into the Annals of Ireland.

Admittedly there were animal sacrifices at this time, but they were no worse than the animal sacrifices being offered in Jerusalem during this same pre-christian period.

There was no cowering at home in the dark, afraid of ghosts and ghoulies. Instead there were great bonfires (bone-fires) in all the villages and farms which people lit to dispose of the bones and carcases of the animals they had killed and salted away to provide their food for the coming winter. There was celebrations and happiness around these bone-fires as they celebrated the end of all the hard work of summer and autumn.

In fact the Irish (whose ability to create mythology is irrepressible) believed that the High King Ollamh Fodla who started these Samhain gatherings was none other than the great Psalmist King David come from Israel. Of course they also believe that the Prophet Jeremiah ended his days in Ireland, together with his daughters, and they can show you his grave today at Loughcrew, as well as Jacob's Pillow, the Stone of Destiny, which Jeremiah brought to Ireland!

And did I mention the Ark of the Covenant which every Irish child knows rests under the ruined chapel on the hill of Cashel? :-)

Fr Ambrose


Offline Ebor

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #714 on: November 03, 2011, 11:28:40 AM »
Thank you for this, Irish Hermit.  MargaretS. has written that there is no such 'god' as Samhain.  I wrote that there was never any kind of deity called Samhain did another person earlier in this thread.  Maybe with enough repetitions it will be remembered.

No, I hadn't heard about the Ark being under the hill of Cashel... I'll have to look that up.   :)

Ebor
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #715 on: November 03, 2011, 11:33:04 AM »
So was Samhein a god or what?  :P ;D
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #716 on: November 03, 2011, 11:37:18 AM »
So was Samhein a god or what?  :P ;D

Are you trying to be a troublemaker?   ;D :D

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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Halloween should be anathema to Orthodox Christians
« Reply #717 on: November 03, 2011, 11:39:01 AM »
Geoffrey Higgins then  promoted this error of a supposed god Samhain in a book in 1827 when  he attempted to prove that the Druids originally came from India. The error might have originated in confusion over the name of Samana, an ancient Vedic/Hindu deity.
"Samana" (Pali; from the Sanskrit "Shramana") was a wandering ascetic of ancient India. The Buddha is perhaps the most famous of the ancient samanas.

Some have proposed a connection between "shaman" and "samana", but that is very unlikely.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #718 on: November 03, 2011, 11:39:23 AM »
So was Samhein a god or what?  :P ;D

Are you trying to be a troublemaker?   ;D :D



 :angel:
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Re: Is it OK for Orthodox Christians to celebrate Halloween?
« Reply #719 on: November 03, 2011, 11:41:43 AM »
SAMUEL HAIN was born at Somerset, England, on the 14th September, 1834. He arrived in Sydney with his parents at the age of 16, and accompanied them to Goulburn. When they moved on to Rock Flat some two years later he went with them, and was engaged in shepherding for a period of about two years. He came to Cooma with his father, James Hain, when the latter built and conducted the Lord Raglan Hotel; in 1855. In 1860 he removed with his father to the Royal Hotel, his father opening a store, which was carried on under the name of Hain & Son. After his father's death he carried on the business under the name of S. Hain for a considerable number of years. In 1889 he met with a buggy accident consequent upon a horse bolting, and was never in good health after. He died on the 18th May, 1890, leaving a wife, four sons, and four daughters. The business is carried on today by two of his sons, Albert and George, under the name of Hain & Co. The other two sons, Thomas and Edward, followed grazing pursuits.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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