OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 24, 2014, 09:29:21 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Re: Confession  (Read 16025 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« on: September 22, 2007, 01:49:25 AM »

This topic begain in the thread "Validity of Icons."
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,12788.0.html

- Cleveland, Global Moderator


Arrogance, correct. But there is alot of guilt in that religion:
1. you're not 100% sure you're one of the elect; arrogance thinking you probably are, but doubt in private moments wondering if you really are.
2. total depravity makes one think one is pretty scummy, and everyone else too
3. there is a certain legalism that when you don't live up, you feel guilty
4. theological arrogance because Calvinists are truly among evangelicalisms best scholars and thinkers; there can be some incipient guilt because it is such a cerebral faith and can be lacking in emotion, so guilt over not being more warm spritiually
5. guilt from feeling one doesn't measure up to the hard, cold rationalistic theology and doctrinal triumphalism of some the Calvinist vanguard
6. no sacrament of confession to know you are forgiven

At least that was my experience in that community; I didn't understand # 6 until I became Orthodox


Personally I still don't understand 6 having never participated in the sacrament (no priest around) but I can't wait till I do (next year). My father used to always say "don't confess your sins to a man confess them to God", My father is a great Orthodox Christian who has taught me a lot but has bad experiences with clergy (a lot of money issues) and because of this finds it hard to see the difference between the man and the sacrament.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 09:05:46 AM by cleveland » Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 03:50:04 AM »

Personally I still don't understand 6 having never participated in the sacrament (no priest around) but I can't wait till I do (next year). My father used to always say "don't confess your sins to a man confess them to God", My father is a great Orthodox Christian who has taught me a lot but has bad experiences with clergy (a lot of money issues) and because of this finds it hard to see the difference between the man and the sacrament.
Well, I think in the Orthodox confessional it really is to God that you confess your sins--the priest is just there as a witness.
Logged
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2007, 07:26:08 AM »

Well, I think in the Orthodox confessional it really is to God that you confess your sins--the priest is just there as a witness.

Yeah I tried to explain that to my dad but he still disagreed with the sacrament.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,404


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2007, 03:53:52 PM »

Well...if it were up to the human being (the priest) to "do" the sacrament...we'd all be in a lot worse place right now.  That's why the Donatist heresy of the 4th century was combated with the Incarnation and the theology of the Holy Spirit.  Its the HS that works through the priest, no matter how bad he is.  If it were up the validity of the priest...there would be no eucharist or anything else...

Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2007, 05:11:36 PM »

Weren't confessions a public thing originally?  I've read or heard somewhere that the person confessing stood in front of the church and told everyone his sins.
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2007, 12:11:56 AM »

Weren't confessions a public thing originally?  I've read or heard somewhere that the person confessing stood in front of the church and told everyone his sins.
The Russian church historian Nicholas Uspensky seems to indicate in his work Evening Worship in the Orthodox Church that public confession was the norm until Christianity was legalized in the Fourth Century.
Logged
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2007, 04:48:35 AM »

The Russian church historian Nicholas Uspensky seems to indicate in his work Evening Worship in the Orthodox Church that public confession was the norm until Christianity was legalized in the Fourth Century.

Ah, thank you.  That, for me, is a great motivator to go to confession where only one other person besides Christ is present.  I can't imagine telling the whole church my sins... eesh.  Going to confession is hard enough!
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 08:14:55 AM »

Ah, thank you.  That, for me, is a great motivator to go to confession where only one other person besides Christ is present.  I can't imagine telling the whole church my sins... eesh.  Going to confession is hard enough! 

Not to drag this out too much longer, but ISTM that public confession ended when the community became less intimate and less committed as a whole - i.e. public confession was good when everyone who was in the Church really want to be and was willing to sacrifice even their life for it; that made the community very mature as a whole and deeply committed to helping one another.  When the Church became legalized (and then later the religion of the Empire) you had many people getting baptized who were not as committed, and not as mature, so public confession lost its community-assistance aspects (as well as accountability).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
sohma_hatori
Earthbending Novice
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
Posts: 526


The Blind Bandit


« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 08:52:58 AM »

Not to drag this out too much longer, but ISTM that public confession ended when the community became less intimate and less committed as a whole - i.e. public confession was good when everyone who was in the Church really want to be and was willing to sacrifice even their life for it; that made the community very mature as a whole and deeply committed to helping one another.  When the Church became legalized (and then later the religion of the Empire) you had many people getting baptized who were not as committed, and not as mature, so public confession lost its community-assistance aspects (as well as accountability).

Could we ever return to such times?
Logged

""Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it's source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.""
— Iroh- Avatar:The Last Airbender
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2007, 09:06:38 AM »

I am not so sure that one can draw a formal line dividing early confession and the sacrament as given now. My reading was that in the 'early' Church not only was Confession public - offered prior to Baptism- but was intended as a one-time event. Further sins were tantamount to being OUT of the Church. Such hard-nosed opinions were impossible to keep (we being human) and, like common property, this was modified to face the reality of human existence.
Of course, one could argue that the die-hard zeal of the early martyrs was a result of this all-or-nothing attitude.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2007, 09:10:16 AM »

Could we ever return to such times? 

Theoretically yes, but it would require a huge change in the people's understanding of Christianity, to wit:

- We need to remember that Christianity is supposed to be a transforming way of life, not another compartment.
- We need to remember that we are intimately interconnected with our worshiping community through the Body and Blood of Christ.  Thus, what we do (both good and bad) affects the community.  Also, when we are not participating in the Eucharist (when we don't receive for long periods of time, for example) we have separated ourselves from said community.
- We need to cast off the tendency to gossip and slander and destroy our fellow Christians.  The point of public confession is (a) Accountability to the community which you have been a part of, (b) Accountability to God with the community as a witness, (c) Community assistance in "turning around" from our sins - metanoia in Greek.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 09:51:44 AM by cleveland » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,354


metron ariston


« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2007, 10:14:44 AM »

I can't imagine telling the whole church my sins... eesh. 

Well, it's not like people got up in front of the Church every week and said: "I yelled at my wife on Tuesday." They got up if they committed a grave sin that threatened the fabric of the community of faith (e.g. denying Christ, handing over the sacred items of the Church to the pagans, committing adultery, etc.).
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,354


metron ariston


« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2007, 10:23:41 AM »

Could we ever return to such times?

We haven't moved that far away. When it became obvious that fully public confession of grievous sins did more harm than good (and it didn't actually fulfill its purpose), then the Church's elders started dealing with these issues as a more private council.

Even today, we have just such a "council" that deals with those sins that affect the fabric of the community of faith. We call it the Spiritual Court, a group of presbyters and, often, a Bishop, all of whom hear confessions and then act on behalf of the community in addressing the problems.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 10:25:23 AM by pensateomnia » Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2007, 03:27:57 PM »

Even today, we have just such a "council" that deals with those sins that affect the fabric of the community of faith. We call it the Spiritual Court, a group of presbyters and, often, a Bishop, all of whom hear confessions and then act on behalf of the community in addressing the problems. 

Where we have moved away is in (a) the public perception of said council of elders, (b) their willingness to seek them out, and (c) the awareness of how grievous sins affect one's neighbors - even those not directly or even secondarily involved.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 03:28:14 PM by cleveland » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2007, 07:04:32 PM »

I have never gone to confession before and would like to know first some opinions on how people feel afterwards but also what is the "process" of the confession (like how does it go about)?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2007, 08:48:03 PM »

I have never gone to confession before and would like to know first some opinions on how people feel afterwards but also what is the "process" of the confession (like how does it go about)?

In my experience, it's like the old "dead man walking" feeling before confession.  I was baptized the same day as a good friend of mine and we both came to confession just before baptism.  She went first and I sat in the back of the church feeling like I was about to face the guillotine.  Once Father was ready for my confession I felt like I could barely walk toward the icon of Christ.  I think I would have felt a little better if I had crawled toward it.  Anyway, prior to confession, Father had given me a little booklet with questions about common sins to prepare me for the confession, just in case there were issues with which I didn't want to deal or of which I was ignorant.  Generally (at least for a first confession), you'll want to mention anything that would damage your soul or prevent God from working in you.  (Here's a similar guide to confession.)After the confession, I literally felt lighter.  You always hear people say it's like a huge weight off your shoulders, but it really does feel that way.  I also felt a little empty afterward, which is why it's important to fill those cleaned out spaces with the holy.  (It's always nice to take communion shortly afterwards or at least pray.)  It is indeed a mystery.
Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
EofK
Mrs. Y
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 3,976


lolcat addict


« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2007, 08:49:09 PM »

BTW, thank you to all for your insights on confession in the early church.  My knowledge of church history is so sparse right now.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 08:49:24 PM by EofK » Logged

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2007, 12:17:04 AM »

I have never gone to confession before and would like to know first some opinions on how people feel afterwards but also what is the "process" of the confession (like how does it go about)?

It feels like being forgiven having the words of absolution said over you as the priest places his stole above your head.
Process: just confess to the priest what is on your heart; don't go into great detail; just name the sin and confess it; use the 10 commandments or sermon on the mount as your guide






Logged
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2007, 02:02:23 AM »

This may seem like a tangent on my own thread but when a priest came to our house to bless it he put his stole on me. Is this for the same reason he does it in confession?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,404


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2007, 08:17:25 AM »

Depends on what he's using it for...

That's probably an answer in and of itself huh...
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2007, 07:13:49 PM »

Like I mean is there any other reason why a priest would put his stole over you?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2007, 07:19:53 PM »

If he read from the Gospel, yes.
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2007, 07:51:31 PM »

What purpose does this serve?
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,404


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2007, 10:04:36 PM »

The priest puts his stole over a person entering the church.  I was just at a chrismation this past weekend where a lady who was formerly RC got chrismated into the GOA.  The priest put his stole over her then. 

Also, the priest puts his stole over possesed people in the Excorcism service...

I think there are other usages also but they are not comming to me.  Most of them are Liturgical, but i'm sure people have stories of non-liturgical functions...which is an oxymoron because ANY use of the petrahili is a liturgical use, by virtue of it being the sign of the priest...

Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Antony
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2007, 03:36:00 AM »

Hello all I am new to the forum and new to Orthodoxy. I am a Catholic of the Roman persuasion and have been considering Orthodoxy for a few months now. Unfortunatly I live in Montana and the Greek OC in my town has been without a Priest since May.

Anyway my question is how often are Orthodox supposed to go to confession? I have read that OC's are not required to go to confession before every liturgy. Is this the case? In the RC we have to go if we have "Mortal Sin" before every Mass ( if we recieve communion). So here is the question Catholics have "Mortal" and "Venial" sins you dont have to confess the venial before communion. Since Orthodox dont catagorize sins this way how does one determine when one needs to go to confession? In the Church I used to attend (the Greek OC) confession was held before Christmas and during lent, but most people received communion every Sunday. Just curious how confessing works in the OC. Thanks and God Bless.
Logged
Sophie
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2007, 05:48:15 AM »

I hope this helps:

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8476.asp
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8493.asp
Logged

"Thoughts are like airplanes flying in the air. If you ignore them, there is no problem. If you pay attention to them, you create an airport inside your head and permit them to land!" (Priestmonk Christodoulos Aggeloglou, Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain Mount Athos, Greece, 1998,pp. 29-30, 48)
drewmeister2
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Hellenic Orthodox Traditionalist Church of America
Posts: 415


Christmas at St Markella's Cathedral, Astoria, NY


« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2007, 08:04:25 AM »

It actually depends.  The Russian Orthodox tend to require confession before every time you wish to receive Communion, the Greek Orthodox do not require it this often but they definately say it is good to do it often, just not necessarily every time before you receive. 
Logged

Orthodoxia i Thanatos

IC    XC      ...and in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC
    +                   and APOSTOLIC CHURCH...
NI    KA

www.hotca.org | www.YouTube.com/GreekOrthodoxTV
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2007, 09:43:09 AM »

I'm not sure what it was but when the priest did this I had an overwhelming feeling go over me and I started to cry like a little child for no reason what so ever!
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2007, 09:44:46 AM »

Is this for the same reason he does it in confession? 

Could be - I've never heard of a priest doing that at a house blessing.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 09:51:17 AM by cleveland » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
prodromas
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Under the Green Pope
Posts: 1,239

Greek Orthodox


« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2007, 09:49:06 AM »

Just to add the priest was unable to make the holy water prior to coming and did this at the house and this incident with the stole happened whilst he was blessing the water.
Logged

The sins I don't commit are largely due to the weakness of my limbs.

1915-1923 Հայոց Ցեղասպանութիւն ,never again,
ܩܛܠܐ ܕܥܡܐ ܐܬܘܪܝܐ 1920-1914, never again,
השואה  1933-1945, never again,
(1914-1923) Ελληνική Γενοκτονία, never again
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2007, 01:52:34 PM »

It was probably during the reading of the Gospel regarding our Lord's baptism.  During the Gospel, if a priest is reading it in the middle of the assembly (basically whenever it's not a Divine Liturgy outside of the Lenten Triodion) it is often the custom to place the stole over those who hear the Gospel on bended knee.  In my understanding it is because you are in this Gospel, in every Gospel, and this is a reminder.  These stories are written for you about our Lord.
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,093


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2007, 01:57:41 PM »

Wow.  Never seen or heard of that before now.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2007, 02:48:27 PM »

So nice to see discussions like this here.
I can only add that when my Greek Orthodox priest, when he found out I would be attending my wife's ACROD parish, only asked me to be certain that priest was wearing his to hear my confession, if I confessed there. I only confess to my Greek priest, however, and he does place the stole over me.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2007, 02:55:51 PM »

Yes the stole over the Gospel thing is something I encountered for the first time at the Romanian mission here in Seattle two years ago.  It was during a Lenten prayer service - I forget which one.
It reminded me of when Christ God said "the Kingdom of God is within you."


I have a question about the Greek practice of confession.  In the OCA Diocese of the West, priests are available after Saturday Vespers for confession, and usually the priest will pray the benediction then hear the confession, followed by the stole over the head as the Greek prayer of absolution is announced ("May God who pardoned the prophet Nathan...").  In every Greek parish I've attended (which is 3 of them), after Vespers everybody went home.  Why is that?  Also, do most of the EP priests pray the Great Litany or any of the other Confession prayers to prepare for hearing the confession?
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,354


metron ariston


« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2007, 03:38:04 PM »

Yes the stole over the Gospel thing is something I encountered for the first time at the Romanian mission here in Seattle two years ago.

This is pretty much a universal pious practice, as far as I can tell. I've seen it in EP parishes, in Greece, in Romania, in Bulgaria, in Ukraine. However, it seems to be the most common in the Romanian tradition, especially during the Gospel readings during the Euchelion.

Quote
In every Greek parish I've attended (which is 3 of them), after Vespers everybody went home.  Why is that?

Because no one wanted to go to confession.

Quote
Also, do most of the EP priests pray the Great Litany or any of the other Confession prayers to prepare for hearing the confession?

Most? Who can say? There are a variety of prayers, including the trisagion, a litany, psalms, etc., in every ieratikon. Most EP priests to whom I have confessed have followed what's in their particular copy.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2007, 03:49:21 PM »

Because no one wanted to go to confession.
Ah ok.

Quote
Most? Who can say? There are a variety of prayers, including the trisagion, a litany, psalms, etc., in every ieratikon. Most EP priests to whom I have confessed have followed what's in their particular copy.
Copy of what?
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,354


metron ariston


« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2007, 03:56:18 PM »

Copy of what?

Of the aforementioned ieratikon (the priestly service book).
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2007, 06:13:45 PM »

Of the aforementioned ieratikon (the priestly service book).

The Book of Needs?
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
ytterbiumanalyst
Professor Emeritus, CSA
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the Midwest
Posts: 8,790



« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2007, 06:57:10 PM »

My priest generally sets a one-year limit before revoking communion. That said, he starts nagging after about six weeks or so.
Logged

"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2007, 11:19:58 PM »

My priest generally sets a one-year limit before revoking communion. That said, he starts nagging after about six weeks or so.
The general practice to which I'm accustomed is that one cannot be given Communion at Pascha if one hasn't gone to confession during Great Lent, and, likewise, one cannot be given Communion at Christmas if one hasn't gone to confession during Advent.  However, this is only the enforceable minimum; most any devoutly Orthodox person will tell you that twice per year is nowhere near enough.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2007, 11:33:26 PM »

I have a question about the Greek practice of confession.  In the OCA Diocese of the West, priests are available after Saturday Vespers for confession, and usually the priest will pray the benediction then hear the confession, followed by the stole over the head as the Greek prayer of absolution is announced ("May God who pardoned the prophet Nathan...").  In every Greek parish I've attended (which is 3 of them), after Vespers everybody went home.  Why is that?
I wonder if this might be in some way connected to the fact that the Saturday evening Vigil, a distinctively monastic practice AFAIK, is practiced much more widely in parishes of the Slavic traditions (e.g., the OCA, a formerly Russian jurisdiction), influenced much more by monastic practices as they are, than it is in the Greek traditions.  You also have to take into account that the requirement that one go to confession before every Sunday Communion is also more of a Russian practice.  I wouldn't assume that Greeks don't go to confession; they probably just practice the sacrament within a different liturgical context.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 11:33:41 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2007, 11:47:25 PM »

Quote
You also have to take into account that the requirement that one go to confession before every Sunday Communion is also more of a Russian practice.
That's not just a Russian practice. It is the Romanian practice too. I would guess it is the Serbian also. And I would say that this is the 18th, 19 and early 20th practice of the most part of the OC, Greeks included. Some churches practice it to this day, some, as the Greek Church, if I understand correctly, returned to an even older practice.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2007, 11:49:52 PM »

That's not just a Russian practice. It is the Romanian practice too. I would guess it is the Serbian also. And I would say that this is the 18th, 19 and early 20th practice of the most part of the OC, Greeks included. Some churches practice it to this day, some, as the Greek Church, if I understand correctly, returned to an even older practice.
I guess you just shot down my idea of expanding Russian to the more widespread term Slavic, considering that Romania isn't even that.
Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2007, 11:59:53 PM »

With the specification that weekly communion is almost completely unknown to the laity of these countries, being reserved to the priesthood.
My experience as a Romanian is that most Orthodox of my country don't even receive the Eucharist annually. Those that  do are considered quite pious.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,667


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2007, 12:38:15 AM »

With the specification that weekly communion is almost completely unknown to the laity of these countries, being reserved to the priesthood.
My experience as a Romanian is that most Orthodox of my country don't even receive the Eucharist annually. Those that  do are considered quite pious.
In which case, Confession before Communion should absolutely be required.  However, the norm of weekly Communion establishes a totally different context.  I guess I'm thinking in my posts here of those churches that have almost continued the requirement of confession before Communion even after they've made weekly Communion normative.
Logged
Tags: confession sin salvation 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 71 queries.