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Author Topic: "I CONFESS ONE BAPTISM"(e-book) by Fr. G. Metallinos  (Read 3217 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: September 15, 2007, 03:42:15 PM »

’I CONFESS ONE BAPTISM…’’

 

By Protopresbyter George D. Metallinos, D. Th., Ph. D.

Dean of the University of Athens, School of Theology


 

Interpretation and Application Of Canon VII of the Second Ecumenical Council by the Kollyvades and Constantine Oikonomos (A contribution to the historico-canonical evaluation of the problem of the validity of  Western baptism)



Translated by: Priestmonk Seraphim



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« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2007, 06:41:34 PM »

thank you, thank you, thank you. Been looking for this book everywhere but it's outta print.
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2007, 06:27:21 PM »

Yes, what a read. I got caught on it last night for hours.
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 08:54:40 AM »

Isn't this the same book that caused such divisive problems in the early 90's, leading at least one OCA monastery into schism, causig converts to question the validity of their reception into the faith, and making others doubt the "orthodoxy" of their own bishops?
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 08:56:50 AM »

This is a fantastic book. It does not analyze variant customs in other national Churches such as the Russian one in great detail (you can find that in other articles online) but that is not the point of the book. I am so pleased to see it online!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 08:58:38 AM by Anastasios » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 08:57:22 AM »

Isn't this the same book that caused such divisive problems in the early 90's, leading at least one OCA monastery into schism, causig converts to question the validity of their reception into the faith, and making others doubt the "orthodoxy" of their own bishops?

If that is what the result was, that is not the fault of the author, who is a renowned theologian in the State Church of Greece.
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 09:11:09 AM »

I concur. Great book.
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 10:41:59 AM »

There have been at least two published refutations, as well. None in English that I know of, although there has been one thesis written on the matter recently. Perhaps that should get some ink.
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 10:49:43 AM »

There have been at least two published refutations, as well. None in English that I know of, although there has been one thesis written on the matter recently. Perhaps that should get some ink.

It would be nice if people would translate them. I have read the Dragas article and the Pagodin article that give a more comprehensive outline of reception practices and enjoyed them as well. Professor Erickson's review of this book is poor though.

Speaking personally, I am very glad I was baptized when I became Orthodox. It was amazing.
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2007, 12:09:41 PM »

Where did Erickson publish his review? I've only read his article on the general topic in St. Vladimir's Theological Quarterly, vol. 41, no. 1, 1997.
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 02:25:01 PM »

Where did Erickson publish his review? I've only read his article on the general topic in St. Vladimir's Theological Quarterly, vol. 41, no. 1, 1997.

I think that is what I am referring to. He uses the argument that the Church in Dura Europis didn't have a deep baptismal font, so hence it could not have been universal practice. I think the shortcomings of this argument are apparent (how do we know it was an Orthodox Church, was infant baptism universal in this area by this point, how do we know that it was not an aberrant practice, how do we know they weren't using a body of water nearby and this font was for some other purpose, etc etc etc etc).
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 03:03:59 PM »

There are many places in the Orthodox world where baptism by immersion has been the exception rather than the rule for several centuries.
I was baptized by pouring as all of my kin.
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 03:11:47 PM »

Interestingly the priest at my GOA parish did not like that I read this book (which was suggested by my spiritual father).  Our priest is quite close with Metropolitan Isaiah of Denver and was told that the author is somewhat controversial.  He would of rather had me received into the Orthodox Church via chrismation.  Sad

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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 04:17:36 PM »

There are many places in the Orthodox world where baptism by immersion has been the exception rather than the rule for several centuries.
I was baptized by pouring as all of my kin.

That is rather unfortunate, I hate to say. The problem appeared in Greece during the time of St Makarios of Corinth, but he corrected it at that time. It reappeared from time to time later in certain villages in the 1900's. I hope that the Romanian Church will return universally to the correct practice of baptizing by triple immersion.
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 05:34:08 PM »

That is rather unfortunate, I hate to say. The problem appeared in Greece during the time of St Makarios of Corinth, but he corrected it at that time. It reappeared from time to time later in certain villages in the 1900's. I hope that the Romanian Church will return universally to the correct practice of baptizing by triple immersion.

We have a man who was baptised by effusion (pouring) recently.  Well, he is close to 300 pounds, bound to a wheelchair (barely walks except from car to wheelchair) and was essentially deluged.  We had a giant bucket that we poured on him 3 times.
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 06:49:03 PM »

We have a man who was baptised by effusion (pouring) recently.  Well, he is close to 300 pounds, bound to a wheelchair (barely walks except from car to wheelchair) and was essentially deluged.  We had a giant bucket that we poured on him 3 times.

No one is arguing against using economy in clear cases where it is warranted. An Old Calendarist priest I know baptized a man by sponging him on his deathbed. I certainly believe this was a baptism. To use exceptions to prove rules though is not an approach I believe is found in the Orthodox canonical tradition.

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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 06:55:23 PM »

No one is arguing against using economy in clear cases where it is warranted. An Old Calendarist priest I know baptized a man by sponging him on his deathbed. I certainly believe this was a baptism. To use exceptions to prove rules though is not an approach I believe is found in the Orthodox canonical tradition.

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Btw, is there a link to the Fr. John Erickson critique?  I wonder if his position is as weak as Patrick Barnes points out in "The Non-Orthodox".  I have that book and it is very well written.
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« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2007, 01:56:35 AM »

This is a fantastic book. It does not analyze variant customs in other national Churches such as the Russian one in great detail (you can find that in other articles online) but that is not the point of the book. I am so pleased to see it online!

I own this book (it was given to me by a visitor to Holy Archangels Monastery in Kendalia, TX), and it's a good read.  I do, as I've said, wish SCOBA bishops were much stricter in whom they baptize and why, though it's not a reason, imo, to separate from them, since the understanding of where the Holy Spirit is in His fullness--namely, Orthodoxy--is not (again, imo) impeded by this unfortunate laxity.  Regardless, the OCA itself, of which I am a member, has moved away drastically from its stated past policy (cited from here):

Quote from: Guidelines for the Orthodox in Ecumenical Relations, 1966, pp. 8-13
The Orthodox Church in America (the former "American Metropolia"), founded by Russian missionaries and later forming a diocese of the Russian Orthodox Church with its center first in San Francisco and then in New York, and which for a time had as her diocesan bishop the future [Saint] Patriarch Tikhon, inherited the traditions of the Russian Church with respect to the rite for the reception of the non-Orthodox converting to the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church in America receives non-Orthodox by three rites:

    * Those converting from Judaism, paganism, and Islam, as well as those who distort or do not accept the dogma of the Holy Trinity, or where the baptism is performed by a single immersion, by means of baptism.

    * Those whose baptism was valid but who either do not have sacrament of chrismation or who lack a hierarchy with apostolic succession (or if it is questionable), by means of chrismation. This group includes Lutherans, Calvinists and Episcopalians (Anglicans).

    * Those whose hierarchy has apostolic succession and whose baptism and chrismation (or confirmation) was performed in their church, by means of repentance and repudiation of heresy, following instruction in Orthodoxy. This group includes persons of the Roman Catholic and Armenian confessions. If it happens that they were not chrismated or confirmed in their churches or if there is any question about this, they are anointed with the Holy Chrism.

(See here for the example of said difference in practice)

I think you've made an important point against the book, Anastasios, by saying that "It does not analyze variant customs in other national Churches such as the Russian one in great detail."  I've read here about how the Russian church has had a long history of understanding those baptized by triple immersion or pouring as being those who've received a baptism like that of the Church and therefore worthy of chrismation -- and this includes Roman Catholics and most confessional Protestants!

I do think the application of the Second Ecumenical Council's canon needs to be reviewed, perhaps even on a yearly basis, based on the wildly different landscape in which we find ourselves, where blanket statements of "Trinitarian Protestants are chrismated" are reviewed and more nuanced--after all, there are even some charismatic groups who use triple-immersion, trinitarian baptism in this day and age, and I think that needs to be taken into account. 

YET -- I'm not a bishop, so my opinion on the application of this canon is worth a little less than what I'm charging you for it...  Wink

That is rather unfortunate, I hate to say. The problem appeared in Greece during the time of St Makarios of Corinth, but he corrected it at that time. It reappeared from time to time later in certain villages in the 1900's. I hope that the Romanian Church will return universally to the correct practice of baptizing by triple immersion.

Don't the Serbians pour?  Help me out, here...
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2007, 02:15:44 AM »

And I should add that although a great part of the Romanian Church baptize by pouring, namely in Transylvania and Banat , the same church would receive Baptists, Pentecostals or Adventists mostly by  baptism, because the form of their baptism is greatly deficient, not having been performed by threefold immersion or pouring.
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« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2007, 02:41:30 AM »

I'm OCA in the DoW and at my parish most people are baptized.  I think I've only seen a couple Chrismations other than the older Eritreans.  (All the babies have been baptized of course).  I think my priest finds any excuse to baptize due to his more traditional upbringing (former spiritual father left for HOCNA).
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« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2007, 03:33:46 AM »

Quote
I've read here about how the Russian church has had a long history of understanding those baptized by triple immersion or pouring as being those who've received a baptism like that of the Church and therefore worthy of chrismation -- and this includes Roman Catholics and most confessional Protestants!

I believe that Catherine II was received into the Orthodox with a mere confession of faith.  St. Elizabeth the new martyr was also not received via re-baptism. 

I think it is hard to escape the fact that both modes of reception have long existed and each has a long history of official approval.
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« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2007, 04:11:43 PM »

I think it is hard to escape the fact that both modes of reception have long existed and each has a long history of official approval.

Absolutely...

Official approval, long histories pre-dating the Council in question, the recognition as saints of those received through "mere chrismation" -- these should give us pause.
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« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2007, 05:39:41 PM »

Quote
Official approval, long histories pre-dating the Council in question, the recognition as saints of those received through "mere chrismation" -- these should give us pause.

There are extremists on the other side that will say those who re-baptize converts from Western Christendom are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit for some reason or another. 
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