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Author Topic: Who Has An "Irregular Status"?  (Read 1799 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: May 23, 2003, 10:44:23 PM »

Answer: I do.
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sinjinsmythe
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2003, 10:51:15 PM »

Why are you becoming so bold now? Has ROCOR ever issued a decree on the Antiochians communing the monophysites? If not, why are you so quick to start calling a spade a spade with the Antiochians?  Huh
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2003, 11:19:16 PM »

ROCOR hasn't issued a decree on the Antiochians. And I'm not really saying anything now that I didn't believe before (members of the various fora know my position on the monophysite dialogue/union): I'm just using more explicit language to articulate my position now. I suppose it might appear to be bold.

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Justin (Paradosis), my brother, try to settle down.  You don't find lifelong "cradle" Orthodox Christians, as a rule, taking to such extremist positions.  No, it seems to be a characteristic of certain recent zealous converts to Holy Orthodoxy who become addicted to what Blessed Father Seraphim Rose called the error of the "Super-Orthodox."  Without losing zeal, which is good (but not in and of itself), allow youself some time to rethink the matter.  I do *not* favor false ecumenism myself, but I try--and it is difficult at times, I must admit--not to rush into rash judgment.

Where you see the EO priest communing OO's, and you are certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is happening, have you politely inquired of the priest why he is doing this?  If you do not receive a  satisfactory answer, then write politely to this priest's bishop and explain your concern and wait for the bishop to investigate--he may not even know this is occurring.

Hypo-Ortho
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Nigula Qian Zishi
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2003, 11:31:13 PM »

INDEED HE IS RISEN!

Where you see the EO priest communing OO's, and you are certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is happening, have you politely inquired of the priest why he is doing this?  If you do not receive a  satisfactory answer, then write politely to this priest's bishop and explain your concern and wait for the bishop to investigate--he may not even know this is occurring.

It appears the bishops do, in fact, know and are telling their priests to do it!

Here is the document where Pat. Ignatius gives permission for his patriarchate to commune, and gives instructions on how to concelebrate with Non-Chalcedonians.

From another thread:
I have checked the accuracy at least of Pat. Ignatius IV's work and that letter appears in an offical publication of the dialogue between the two Churches.
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2003, 11:44:44 PM »

Where you see the EO priest communing OO's, and you are certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that this is happening, have you politely inquired of the priest why he is doing this?  If you do not receive a  satisfactory answer, then write politely to this priest's bishop and explain your concern and wait for the bishop to investigate--he may not even know this is occurring.

It appears the bishops do, in fact, know and are telling their priests to do it!

Here is the document where Pat. Ignatius gives permission for his patriarchate to commune, and gives instructions on how to concelebrate with Non-Chalcedonians. Thanks to Anastasios to pointing out this documenty and verifying the truth of it.

This is indeed disturbing, Nik.  But I don't see any formal response, positive or negative, from the Syriac Orthodox side.  Is further info available?  Is this liberalism being enacted only by the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch? Sometimes I get the impression that some OO's (e.g., the Copts) are far stricter than the EO's in the matters of "communicatio in sacris."

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Hypo-Ortho
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sinjinsmythe
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2003, 12:01:10 AM »

I don't think we should rush to judgement until we know all of the facts. ROCOR has not issued any condemnations of this in so far as I know.  This is a very serious matter and requires some cool headed thinking.
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Linus7
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2003, 11:37:08 AM »

The whole dispute over Chalcedon is enough to make one's head spin. I cannot pretend to have it all sorted out.

It seems that the OO believe and practice the same things we believe and practice, except with regard to the history of Councils 4-7. Sadly, a different perspective on the councils may be an insurmountable obstacle to Orthodox unity, since we have assembled our house of authority upon them.

How are we (whether EO or OO) then to admit that one of the councils we regard as foundational could have erred in some respect?

It might be different if it was possible to say that one side or the other in the whole Latrocinium-Chalcedon episode acted with utter simplicity and sincerity as followers of Christ. But there was intrigue and duplicity on both sides.

And people suffered and died as a result. It was shameful.

How many of us really understand the theological differences supposedly in dispute?

It seems to me that all the parties believed the same things but had difficulty in knowing how to express them.

I wish I had an answer to offer in this case; but I don't.

We should all pray for guidance and hope that Jesus will heal the breach as He sees fit.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2003, 05:46:27 PM by Linus7 » Logged

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Seraphim Reeves
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2003, 05:15:33 PM »

What can I say...Antioch has fallen?  I'm waiting to see what the reaction of the rest of "world Orthodoxy" is to this.  Rebuke?  Indifference?

Thanks for posting the link, Nicholas.

Seraphim
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2003, 05:27:59 PM »

Christos Anesti!

Seraphim,

The Athonites feel very strongly about this issue and have protested it with letters and writtings (and of course prayer.)  Grigoriou has published a pamplet about the topic which has some very good information.  Until there is a formal union with no vler renunciation of monophysitism I don't think there will be much more major measures taken.  

Nektarios
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Jonathan
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2003, 06:51:58 PM »

Many of our priests will communion Eastern Orthodox if they're properly disposed, and there is silent approval from the bishops.  I guess it makes a little more sense for us to do it since we offered to remove the anathamas.
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