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Author Topic: OO and EO difference (hurdles to Reunification)  (Read 29893 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #270 on: November 01, 2011, 12:54:05 AM »

Bumping this because I am still confused about how to describe 'what happened' at the Baptism.

Did Christ receive the Holy Spirit in His human nature?
Yes, I can't find the exact quote at the time, but it is in here "On the Unity of Christ"
http://books.google.com/books?id=x0Lnu_cm-GAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=On+the+Unity+of+christ+baptism&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Spirit&f=false

Okay. That's what I thought, and what the Patristic texts posted here seem to say. But I'd like to have a better grasp of what that means. Was His flesh lacking the Holy Spirit beforehand?
No (I want to find where Pope St. Cyril deals with this exactly, because he is of course going to say it better than I would).

St. Cyril speaks of His "emptiness" and "poverty" and says that "He is sanctified with us". What does all that mean if not that His flesh was somehow lacking sanctification prior to the Baptism?

Then on the other hand you have Chrysostom seeming to say that the descent of the Spirit was merely to make Christ known.

Not necessarily.  He established Chrismation in the Flesh, but His Flesh never lacked the Spirit.  The Holy Spirit works in Holy Orders on a priest or bishop, but that doesn't mean they never had the Spirit before.  I think that's the best way of looking at it.  It's just a different way in which the Holy Spirit is working for the sake of all humanity.  One can also look at it as a betrothal to the Church through the important sacraments of baptism and chrismation, with the Forerunner, being the "friend of the Bridegroom" as the Holy Priest who officiates the betrothal of the New Covenant.  But it is not a baptism and chrismation of Christ like we do.  For in Christ, He establishes it through His flesh, and for us, we receive it in our flesh, even though the act is the same.
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« Reply #271 on: November 01, 2011, 05:17:55 AM »

St Severus says in his hymns...

'By going down and being baptised in the river Jordan he hallowed the nature of water, and though he is the Son by nature he receives testimony by the voice of the Father which came from above, and though he is himself the giver of the Spirit, he received the descent of the Holy Spirit. For he that lacketh not, who appeared as one that lacketh and was named the Second Adam, became in all things a beginning to us'.

'..inasmuch he wished by his baptism to open before us an ascent leading up to heaven, and to lay in advance a sure foundation for the gift of adoption, and to bring the Holy Spirit upon flesh, and to crush the head of the evil one..'

'..he is baptised with the rest in the river Jordan like one guilty of sin, not because he needed cleansing, but that he might himself cleanse and hallow the water by his baptism, and illuminate the divine laver which shone with the rays of the triple and single light of the Trinity, through the goodwill of the Father, through the condescension of himself the Son, and through the descent of the Holy Sprit, which he received for our sake, when it flew like a dove and came upon him, though it is in him in essence'.
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« Reply #272 on: November 01, 2011, 07:22:23 AM »

St Severus says in his hymns...

'By going down and being baptised in the river Jordan he hallowed the nature of water, and though he is the Son by nature he receives testimony by the voice of the Father which came from above, and though he is himself the giver of the Spirit, he received the descent of the Holy Spirit. For he that lacketh not, who appeared as one that lacketh and was named the Second Adam, became in all things a beginning to us'.

'..inasmuch he wished by his baptism to open before us an ascent leading up to heaven, and to lay in advance a sure foundation for the gift of adoption, and to bring the Holy Spirit upon flesh, and to crush the head of the evil one..'

'..he is baptised with the rest in the river Jordan like one guilty of sin, not because he needed cleansing, but that he might himself cleanse and hallow the water by his baptism, and illuminate the divine laver which shone with the rays of the triple and single light of the Trinity, through the goodwill of the Father, through the condescension of himself the Son, and through the descent of the Holy Sprit, which he received for our sake, when it flew like a dove and came upon him, though it is in him in essence'.

Where can I find St Severus' hymns? I've only been able to find his letters. Smiley
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« Reply #273 on: November 01, 2011, 09:01:37 AM »

For in Christ, He establishes it through His flesh, and for us, we receive it in our flesh, even though the act is the same.

I like that. Thanks.

So, in Chrysostom's commentary, when he says,

Quote
For that which was wanting was the crowning blessing of all, that he who was baptized should be deemed worthy of the Spirit; this free gift then of the Spirit He added when He came.

Is part of what he's saying is that we needed a new Adam who was intrinsically worthy of the Spirit?
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« Reply #274 on: November 01, 2011, 09:30:29 AM »

Bumping this because I am still confused about how to describe 'what happened' at the Baptism.

Did Christ receive the Holy Spirit in His human nature?
Yes, I can't find the exact quote at the time, but it is in here "On the Unity of Christ"
http://books.google.com/books?id=x0Lnu_cm-GAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=On+the+Unity+of+christ+baptism&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Spirit&f=false

Okay. That's what I thought, and what the Patristic texts posted here seem to say. But I'd like to have a better grasp of what that means. Was His flesh lacking the Holy Spirit beforehand?
No (I want to find where Pope St. Cyril deals with this exactly, because he is of course going to say it better than I would).

St. Cyril speaks of His "emptiness" and "poverty" and says that "He is sanctified with us". What does all that mean if not that His flesh was somehow lacking sanctification prior to the Baptism?

Then on the other hand you have Chrysostom seeming to say that the descent of the Spirit was merely to make Christ known.

Not necessarily.  He established Chrismation in the Flesh, but His Flesh never lacked the Spirit.  The Holy Spirit works in Holy Orders on a priest or bishop, but that doesn't mean they never had the Spirit before.  I think that's the best way of looking at it.  It's just a different way in which the Holy Spirit is working for the sake of all humanity.  One can also look at it as a betrothal to the Church through the important sacraments of baptism and chrismation, with the Forerunner, being the "friend of the Bridegroom" as the Holy Priest who officiates the betrothal of the New Covenant.  But it is not a baptism and chrismation of Christ like we do.  For in Christ, He establishes it through His flesh, and for us, we receive it in our flesh, even though the act is the same.
The difference I think comes from the Spirit descended on the Flesh, rather than the Spirit being united to the Flesh via the Hypostatic Union.  Since the Holy Spirit was not incarnated, so it was not His Flesh. But Christ was "incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary," so the consubstantial Flesh did not lack the Spirit as the Theotokos did not fail to bear God.  As the Word was able to become sin for us and die and descend to Hell, so too was He able to receive the Spirit at the Jordan, as the Flesh did not cease to be finite, and the Spirit did not cease to be an infinite treasury of blessings.  Were it not for the danger of miscontruction as Adoptionism, I would say that at the Jordan Christ became by adoption what He was by nature.
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« Reply #275 on: November 01, 2011, 09:36:43 AM »

That's not what the Fathers seem to say though, I think.

They seem rather to say that he receives the Holy Spirit (who descends upon him who already gives the Spirit) for US, and for our sakes, and not for his own ministry. The humanity receives the Spirit so that we can receive the Spirit in union with his humanity. Just as he is baptised for US and not for himself, so that the waters are lifegiving when we are united with him in his humanity.
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« Reply #276 on: November 01, 2011, 10:12:53 AM »

Could we say something like, He became obedient unto death, and God raised Him from the dead; He identified with sinners in the Jordan, and God sent down the Holy Spirit? The idea of 'vindication'.

What are some ways to understand "πληρωσαι πασαν δικαιοσυνην"?
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« Reply #277 on: November 01, 2011, 10:52:06 AM »

That's not what the Fathers seem to say though, I think.

They seem rather to say that he receives the Holy Spirit (who descends upon him who already gives the Spirit) for US, and for our sakes, and not for his own ministry. The humanity receives the Spirit so that we can receive the Spirit in union with his humanity. Just as he is baptised for US and not for himself, so that the waters are lifegiving when we are united with him in his humanity.
Isn't His ministry nothing but "for our sakes," Father?  He, after all, was in no need of the Incarnation. After all, St. John was correct when he refused at first to baptize Christ, as he was in need of baptism from Him, but Christ was more correct in insisting on it so "all may be fulfilled in righteousness."
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« Reply #278 on: November 01, 2011, 10:57:54 AM »

Of course, but you raised the question of adoption.

I don't see that in the Fathers. Indeed St Cyril seems to reject that and insist, as I was trying to, that he received the Holy Spirit for our sakes so that we could receive the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #279 on: November 01, 2011, 11:21:53 AM »

For in Christ, He establishes it through His flesh, and for us, we receive it in our flesh, even though the act is the same.

I like that. Thanks.

So, in Chrysostom's commentary, when he says,

Quote
For that which was wanting was the crowning blessing of all, that he who was baptized should be deemed worthy of the Spirit; this free gift then of the Spirit He added when He came.

Is part of what he's saying is that we needed a new Adam who was intrinsically worthy of the Spirit?

Yes, I think so.  That's one way of looking at things.
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« Reply #280 on: November 01, 2011, 12:49:40 PM »

Bumping this because I am still confused about how to describe 'what happened' at the Baptism.

Did Christ receive the Holy Spirit in His human nature?
Yes, I can't find the exact quote at the time, but it is in here "On the Unity of Christ"
http://books.google.com/books?id=x0Lnu_cm-GAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=On+the+Unity+of+christ+baptism&hl=en#v=snippet&q=Spirit&f=false

Okay. That's what I thought, and what the Patristic texts posted here seem to say. But I'd like to have a better grasp of what that means. Was His flesh lacking the Holy Spirit beforehand?
No (I want to find where Pope St. Cyril deals with this exactly, because he is of course going to say it better than I would).

St. Cyril speaks of His "emptiness" and "poverty" and says that "He is sanctified with us". What does all that mean if not that His flesh was somehow lacking sanctification prior to the Baptism?

Then on the other hand you have Chrysostom seeming to say that the descent of the Spirit was merely to make Christ known.

Not necessarily.  He established Chrismation in the Flesh, but His Flesh never lacked the Spirit.  The Holy Spirit works in Holy Orders on a priest or bishop, but that doesn't mean they never had the Spirit before.  I think that's the best way of looking at it.  It's just a different way in which the Holy Spirit is working for the sake of all humanity.  One can also look at it as a betrothal to the Church through the important sacraments of baptism and chrismation, with the Forerunner, being the "friend of the Bridegroom" as the Holy Priest who officiates the betrothal of the New Covenant.  But it is not a baptism and chrismation of Christ like we do.  For in Christ, He establishes it through His flesh, and for us, we receive it in our flesh, even though the act is the same.
The difference I think comes from the Spirit descended on the Flesh, rather than the Spirit being united to the Flesh via the Hypostatic Union.  Since the Holy Spirit was not incarnated, so it was not His Flesh. But Christ was "incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary," so the consubstantial Flesh did not lack the Spirit as the Theotokos did not fail to bear God.  As the Word was able to become sin for us and die and descend to Hell, so too was He able to receive the Spirit at the Jordan, as the Flesh did not cease to be finite, and the Spirit did not cease to be an infinite treasury of blessings.

I don't see disagreement here, but I understand and agree with Fr. Peter's point here:


Quote
Were it not for the danger of miscontruction as Adoptionism, I would say that at the Jordan Christ became by adoption what He was by nature.
  I'd say it's better to just say Christ, the Eternal Anointer, became anointed in His humanity so that we may be anointed in Him.  But adoption implies being made "Son of God" at the Jordan.  Only the human race is adopted.  In fact, St. Cyril explains in the book "That Christ is One" that the reason of His incarnation of a Virgin is so that we may call the Father "Father," especially when the Holy Spirit is involved in the Incarnation, so is the Holy Spirit involved in our adoption.  In other words, Christ's incarnation itself elevates us from a state of being sons of Adam in earthly decay, to sons of the Father in heavenly life.
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« Reply #281 on: November 01, 2011, 02:05:05 PM »

Of course, but you raised the question of adoption.

I don't see that in the Fathers. Indeed St Cyril seems to reject that and insist, as I was trying to, that he received the Holy Spirit for our sakes so that we could receive the Holy Spirit.

Maybe this is the wrong kind of question, but I'm still curious about the 'mechanism' here, so to speak. What is it about Christ's receiving that makes possible our receiving? How would you describe the 'effect' that Jesus Christ receiving the Spirit has on us men?
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« Reply #282 on: November 01, 2011, 02:19:04 PM »

Of course, but you raised the question of adoption.

I don't see that in the Fathers. Indeed St Cyril seems to reject that and insist, as I was trying to, that he received the Holy Spirit for our sakes so that we could receive the Holy Spirit.

Maybe this is the wrong kind of question, but I'm still curious about the 'mechanism' here, so to speak. What is it about Christ's receiving that makes possible our receiving? How would you describe the 'effect' that Jesus Christ receiving the Spirit has on us men?

In the Incarnation, we become Sons of the Father.  In the Jordan, we become stamped as Christians, as Christs.
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« Reply #283 on: November 01, 2011, 04:00:20 PM »

I would want to stress that Christ lacks nothing of the Holy Spirit BY NATURE, yet he submits to RECEIVING the Holy Spirit, as if he lacked, for our sake who do lack entirely the gift and grace of the Holy Spirit.

Because we are united with the renewed humanity of Christ is baptism we have also received the descent of the Holy Spirit , which is necessary for us because we do not possess the fulness of the Holy Spirit BY NATURE.

It is surely THE SAME descent which we participate in by union with Christ. This union is by grace and not by nature, but it is a real and effectual union by grace. It has meaning and substance beyond the symbolic. We go down into the waters with Christ, and recieve the testimony of the Father - this is my beloved son - and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not given to us because of Christ, or even by Christ, (as if it were something separate to our union with Christ) but the Spirit is given IN Christ, as we find ourselves in Christ by a union with his humanity. And so Christ receives the Holy Spirit which he never lacked so that we might also receive the same Spirit in coming up from the same waters.

I guess?
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« Reply #284 on: November 04, 2011, 03:42:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

That's not what the Fathers seem to say though, I think.

They seem rather to say that he receives the Holy Spirit (who descends upon him who already gives the Spirit) for US, and for our sakes, and not for his own ministry. The humanity receives the Spirit so that we can receive the Spirit in union with his humanity. Just as he is baptised for US and not for himself, so that the waters are lifegiving when we are united with him in his humanity.

Just a thought..

Couldn't also interpret Christ's receiving of the Holy Spirit as fellowship of the Word with the Holy Spirit?  After all, if through the Incarnation the Word is united with flesh and exists through the Divine-Human hypostasis, then couldn't Jesus Christ receiving the Holy Spirit, as to His humanity, be a mechanism of fellowship with the Holy Spirit?  The Word always exists in fellowship, in a Divine relationship, with the Father and Holy Spirit, expressing the power of God's love even among Himself.  However, if after the Incarnation, the Word exists through the Union and the Human-Divine hypostasis of the Person of Jesus Christ, then because of the Union with Human nature, does not the Word have to now fellowship with the Holy Spirit in both a Divine and Human way? So when Christ receives the Holy Spirit, could He not simply be in fellowship with Himself as God, as the Trinity always has been for eternity, and yet because the Incarnation includes a Human nature and form to God, does not God now have to adapt the mechanism of this fellowship to include Jesus Christ's humanity? That is to say, after the Incarnation, doesn't God have to adjust how He communicates with the Word because the Word is no longer purely Divine, but also Human, and therefore as to His Humanity must communicate in a Human way, just as we all humanly receive the Holy Spirit?
He, after all, was in no need of the Incarnation. After all, St. John was correct when he refused at first to baptize Christ, as he was in need of baptism from Him, but Christ was more correct in insisting on it so "all may be fulfilled in righteousness."

We should be careful about these kind of implications.  We know that God's Will is His Own, beyond our comprehension.  Further we know that God does nothing aside from His own Will, He is not forced into the wills of others.  So if God chose to become Incarnate, we must assume that he needed or wanted such, because God only acts according to His own needs, and is not therefore limited by the needs of others.  We can't say God became Man just for ourselves, because we would be subjugating God under our human needs, fears, and desires.  God must have become Man out of His own desire to do such, or it simply would not have happened.  Futher, if God ever acts in any way, we can only assume that He is acting on His own Divine needs which we can't understand, otherwise why would He act in the first place if not to fulfill some kind of need of His own?  Just because God is perfect, does not mean He does not have His own uniquely perfect needs, which by His perfection He can easily fulfill, however He still must have them, otherwise why would He have done all this to begin with? If God needed nothing, then nothing is all there would be like before Genesis 1:1



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« Reply #285 on: November 05, 2011, 02:59:24 AM »

Selam all
I thought I might add a bit on this one, please correct me where I get it wrong. I think I am in agreement with Father peter, but if I am not please let me know I like to know the right information on this as well.my recolection of this teaching is very vague.

Genesis 6:3 “My Spirit shall not remain with these people forever, for they are flesh. So their days shall be one hundred and twenty years”

In our fall from grace we lost the grace of the Holy Spirit, although it remained available from outside of us, because of our lack of his grace we continued to succumb to the will of the flesh the world and the devil. Our will power to resist temptation was weakened thus we kept rejecting God’s grace. One might call it a vicious cycle of failure.
 Galatians4:6-7 “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Romans 8:9- 17 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall quicken also your mortal bodies through his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh: 13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the spirit ye mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.


The Logos Incarnate received the Holy Spirit in the flesh for our sakes, to make us receive the Holy Spirit in union with his humanity. The Holy Spirit did not come upon his divinity as if one is empty of the other or inferior than the other, it is not that the divine Logos by nature needed the help of the spirit, rather because of his incarnation it is fit that his humanity receive the Spirit for our sakes. However it is not in separation but in the hypostatic union that all this is done it is the Son that receives the Spirit in his humanity for us. For this reason both St. Cyril and St. Severus teach: we hear the testimony of the Father as scriptures say “the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”Luke 3:21-22, He did not say here is my Son dwelling upon this man.” For the Father to say My Son, he was referring not in flesh but in referring to his Sonship by nature of his divinity that from all eternity was begotten from Him (the Father). Thus we are not talking about the Son by nature being lacking somehow thus needing the Spirit to assist him for his work God forbid we would say such a thing! But rather the Son of God while one with the Spirit Himself, received the Spirit in his humanity for our sakes, that we also may be able to receive the spirit in our union with him. We get baptized with sanctified life giving water, so we might be revivified and transfigured in union with him in death and in life. The First Adam became a living soul; the Last Adam became a life giving spirit.
As the spirit descended on the son in baptism the Spirit also descends on us and makes us by adoption sons of the Father in our union with the Son.

Why water was used for his baptism?

As St. Cyril and St. Severus teach it is to make the waters of this world holy. And To fulfill the words of scriptures that say” I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols” Ezekiel 36:25, as water is needed by all and given for all, be it the king that sits on his throne or the poor man on the street in the same manner baptism is established for all.  As water purifies baptism also purifies. As that which is taken away by water does not leave track/ trace in the same manner the sin that is forgiven and washed away by baptism will not be used for judgment as it is washed without a trace. As water acts like mirror and also revitalizes the flesh, baptism also shows the condition of the soul and revitalizes her. A cloth that is washed with water is heavy and strong in the same manner in baptism the faithful find the grace to increase in glory and be strong in virtue. As the potter whose pot gets cracked while working at it will break and remake it by mixing it the clay with water. In the same manner baptism is the giver of regeneration. Water was used by God to execute his judgment upon those who rebelled against him for this reason many have called water as an instrument of destruction; however our Lord being baptized in water showed us that water manifests God’s Mercy.

The Scripture says then the havens opened unto him (John).  We know that there is no opening or closing for the skies by their nature. However it is to say that the mystery is now revealed as a gate is opened to show what is inside it, now a mystery that was unrevealed before is now revealed. The mystery of the Holy Trinity! Thus we call it Epiphany.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him; 17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:16-17

Here we see the Holy Spirit as a dove, because dove is meek and forgiving, The Holy Spirit is forgiving. As in the time of Noah the dove brought the good news of the passing of the destruction the beginning of new life by brining the olive branch, the Holy Spirit proclaims the hope of the Cross. As a dove other than as a result of the destruction of her nest will not abandon her nest even if they crash her eggs, hit her wings, the Holy Spirit too will not abandon a person for sinning unless completely rejected and denied.


I guess I should stop here .

In christ,
Hiwot.
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #286 on: November 05, 2011, 06:44:01 PM »

I do not wish to speak on his behalf, but I think Nicholas is saying that Christ, through his Divine energy, uses his human energy to perform all his own acts "by nature", that is, by virtue of the natural and hypostatic union. Whereas, in the case of a Saint, God's Divine energy operates through them "by grace", that is by virtue of an external unity.
Why can't Christ do both?

The hypostatic union is of a different character than the union of God with a saint by Grace. So, while He, I suppose, could do something through His humanity by Grace, it would sort of be superfluous (for lack of a more accurate term).
Did the Holy Spirit descend upon Christ as a demo, or truly?

But what does the descent of the Holy Spirit mean? (I ask this sincerely from you and anyone else. I would be interested to know.)

From the Incarnation, He was fully God.
God knows all things.

The Incarnate God grew in Wisdom and Stature and probably thought that mustard seeds were the smallest seeds in the world.

But thou sayest that the growth was unto wisdom, albeit how is not this without learning? for we believe that out of the very belly and womb of the Virgin, Emmanuel being God proceeded forth Man, full surely of the wisdom and grace that are inherent of Nature. What sort of growth then will He admit of, in Whom are all the treasures of wisdom, Who is with God the Father Co-giver of the grace from above? how then is He said to advance? it is, I deem, by God the Word co-measuring with the increase and stature of His own Body, the manifestation of the most God-befitting goods that are in Him. - St Cyril of Alexandria, Against Nestorius, Tome Three

Source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/cyril_against_nestorius_03_book3.htm
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 06:45:30 PM by zekarja » Logged

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« Reply #287 on: November 05, 2011, 06:48:07 PM »

^Thank you for providing this quote, Zekarja. So the God-Logos imparts His own wisdom into His human nous by virtue of the (en-)Hypostatic union. The humanity is not the source of His omiscience, but rather the Divinity is. He is said only to be omniscient in His humanity only by the humanity's unity to the Divinity.
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In solidarity with the "Nasara" (i.e. Christians) of Iraq & Syria

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NOTE: Some of my older posts may not reflect my current views
zekarja
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O Holy Prophet Zechariah, intercede to God for us!


« Reply #288 on: November 05, 2011, 06:53:32 PM »

You are welcome! Smiley Also...

And He was somewhere rebuking the holy Apostles themselves that they should not make Him, known. Hence a thing unwonted and strange and worthy of looking into, would have been shewn, if being yet a babe, He had made a God-befitting demonstration of wisdom: but He little and little and proportionably to bodily stature, extending it and making it manifest to all, will be said to advance and that with reason. - St Cyril of Alexandria, Against Nestorius, Tome Three

Source: http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/cyril_against_nestorius_03_book3.htm
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 06:54:35 PM by zekarja » Logged

Tags: Incarnation Chalcedon Hypostatic union Aphthartodocetism Christology Julianism Crypto-Nestorianism St. Severus Crypto-reverse Eutychian 
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