Cognomen
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2012, 02:19:20 AM » |
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Does anyone know of another Orthodox book approaching an introduction to Christianity via the Creed?
Another great idea. Hopefully someone will know of a good one. I'm disappointed that there aren't better Intro to Xtianity books, from an Orthodox perspective. Wouldn't this benefit evangelization efforts to non-Christians to have these? Mere Christianity seems to be a good suggestion for those looking for a basic intro that's easily digestible. Are there other suggestions, perhaps from other portions of Christianity (since we apparently don't have any/many). Additionally, any podcasts that would accomplish similar goals of introduction to the Christian faith in a basic but meaningful and accurate fashion?
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 02:20:26 AM by Cognomen »
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"Paint a bunch of icons of our Lord and the saints and then kiss them. Also, pray to Mary after she dies in the future."
~ The Epistle of St. Paul to the Antiochians, 46 AD.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2012, 02:53:37 AM » |
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While it is Coptic Orthodox, not Byzantine, Ibn Kabar's 14th century treatise "The Lamp that Lights the Darkness In Clarifying the Service" has an entire chapter that goes through the Creed line by line. I only have this text in a partial translation, with the first four chapters only (of 24 total), but it is still quite fascinating.
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Cognomen
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« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2012, 03:10:16 AM » |
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While it is Coptic Orthodox, not Byzantine, Ibn Kabar's 14th century treatise "The Lamp that Lights the Darkness In Clarifying the Service" has an entire chapter that goes through the Creed line by line. I only have this text in a partial translation, with the first four chapters only (of 24 total), but it is still quite fascinating.
Do you think this would serve well for a person with little background knowledge on Christianity? Sounds great to me, but do you think it would be accessible and easy to comprehend (remember, you are a linguist with an affinity for theology and arcane and archaic documents)? If so, what's the best way to get ahold of it?
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"Paint a bunch of icons of our Lord and the saints and then kiss them. Also, pray to Mary after she dies in the future."
~ The Epistle of St. Paul to the Antiochians, 46 AD.
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dzheremi
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« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 03:53:28 AM » |
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While it is Coptic Orthodox, not Byzantine, Ibn Kabar's 14th century treatise "The Lamp that Lights the Darkness In Clarifying the Service" has an entire chapter that goes through the Creed line by line. I only have this text in a partial translation, with the first four chapters only (of 24 total), but it is still quite fascinating.
Do you think this would serve well for a person with little background knowledge on Christianity? Sounds great to me, but do you think it would be accessible and easy to comprehend (remember, you are a linguist with an affinity for theology and arcane and archaic documents)? If so, what's the best way to get ahold of it? It might not be the first thing I would reach for, but if other options are exhausted, I don't see why it couldn't augment other books. I forgot to mention it, but it also includes a summary of Bishop Severus Ibn al-Muqaffaa's (a.k.a. Severus of Al-Ashmunein; d. 987) similar line-by-line exposition of the Creed, which goes into a bit more depth. I mainly mentioned this book because the poster had asked for such a line-by-line analysis, and in this work there are two. The text is not terribly difficult in itself (in terms of theological vocabulary used, which is not complicated), though the pdf I have is marked as a preliminary translation, and as such is somewhat rough. Much better than if I were to try to read it in Arabic, though! Unfortunately I don't remember exactly where I got it, but searching for Ibn Kabar and/or the title should bring it up. I'm sure it's available on Coptic sites. A sample (from ch. 2 "The Orthodox Creed", pg. 47): Our Saying: Begotten not made, Consubstantial with the Father:
Here the fathers (of the Church) showed the error of Arios in his saying: “The word of God is created, newly made, and had a lord?” And he also claimed that the it is not comprehensible that the word was born of the father unless he had to suffer the pain and symptoms associated with (human) birth. John Chrysostom said in his book the explanation of the creation: We do not deny- even if we knew with clear evidence and prior knowledge- that the Word of God is born of the essence of the Father. He is not created. for this we do not question how He was born of the Father, as we do not question how the creator created the creation.” But the fathers did emphasize (that He is of the same essence as the Father) by their saying: “Consubstantial with the Father” (of the same essence) since Arios states (differently) that the creator is of three different essences, an old essence that is the Father, and two newer ones, that is the Son and the Holy Spirit. The learned ones told us that: the Son is equal (one) with the Father in His essence.” He is equivalent to Him in Essence,” and that: “Through Him all creation was made,” as the Prophet David, said: “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.” (Psalms 119:89-90). The holy gospel said: “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3). And the Apostle said: “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;” (Colossians 1:16-19). And this is the response to Onamios and his followers who agrees with Arios and his corrupt sayings.
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Cognomen
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« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 04:32:59 AM » |
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Thanks for the response and information, dzheremi.
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"Paint a bunch of icons of our Lord and the saints and then kiss them. Also, pray to Mary after she dies in the future."
~ The Epistle of St. Paul to the Antiochians, 46 AD.
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izrima
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« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2012, 04:33:48 AM » |
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Does anyone know of another Orthodox book approaching an introduction to Christianity via the Creed?
Another great idea. Hopefully someone will know of a good one. I'm disappointed that there aren't better Intro to Xtianity books, from an Orthodox perspective. Wouldn't this benefit evangelization efforts to non-Christians to have these? Mere Christianity seems to be a good suggestion for those looking for a basic intro that's easily digestible. Are there other suggestions, perhaps from other portions of Christianity (since we apparently don't have any/many). Additionally, any podcasts that would accomplish similar goals of introduction to the Christian faith in a basic but meaningful and accurate fashion? For sure evangelization would benefit from better books and resources. I hope we can do more. Ancient Faith Radio, for example, is a very effective tool. Speaking of which, podcast-wise, you might check out Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy lecture series on AFR. There is a fair amount of terminology, but in one of the first podcasts in the series, he tries to define some of the key terms and ideas. Then, if you are dealing with people from religious backgrounds of a non-Christian type, he does treat the world's major faith traditions. If the person is entirely faithless or atheist, that would probably be the greatest shortcoming. It is a great series, though. He is a talented lecturer. I must say, I am right now halfway through this book called "The Faith: Understanding Orthodox Christianity, An Orthodox Catechism" by Clark Carlton. It is great! I think it could be a good resource even for the total newcomer. I was worried it would be super complex since it is a catechism, but it is actually very readable. Each chapter treats a major topic concisely, then has a paragraph or two of patristic writings on that topic, then drills down with some sort of topical application, and is followed by review questions. Carlton walks through fundamental teachings like the Incarnation in ways that are interesting to me as someone familiar with them but I think would also be approachable for the uninitiated. Lastly, if you want to go beyond Orthodoxy, the single best conversion memoir I've ever read is "The Seven Storey Mountain" by Thomas Merton. It was that book that shook me awake from the most faithless, debauched year of my life--indeed, maybe it even saved my life. It is not really an introduction to Christianity doctrinally, but I would call it an introduction to Christian life and conversion.
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asdamick
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« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2012, 04:17:50 PM » |
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For sure evangelization would benefit from better books and resources. I hope we can do more. Ancient Faith Radio, for example, is a very effective tool. Speaking of which, podcast-wise, you might check out Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy lecture series on AFR. There is a fair amount of terminology, but in one of the first podcasts in the series, he tries to define some of the key terms and ideas. Then, if you are dealing with people from religious backgrounds of a non-Christian type, he does treat the world's major faith traditions. If the person is entirely faithless or atheist, that would probably be the greatest shortcoming. It is a great series, though. He is a talented lecturer.
Thanks for your kind words. Regarding your last comment about atheism, it's worth noting that I put an appendix on atheism and agnosticism in the book version of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, which is considerably revised and expanded in comparison to the podcast. It can be purchased in both paperback and as an e-book at the following sites: http://www.conciliarpress.com/products/Orthodoxy-and-Heterodoxy.htmlhttp://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Heterodoxy-Andrew-Stephen-Damick/dp/1936270137http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/orthodoxy-and-heterodoxy-fr-andrew-damick/1113639532?ean=2940013515208
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Buy Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy: Exploring Belief Systems Through the Lens of the Ancient Christian Faith via Conciliar Press or Amazon.com!
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choy
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« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2012, 04:29:41 PM » |
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For sure evangelization would benefit from better books and resources. I hope we can do more. Ancient Faith Radio, for example, is a very effective tool. Speaking of which, podcast-wise, you might check out Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy lecture series on AFR. There is a fair amount of terminology, but in one of the first podcasts in the series, he tries to define some of the key terms and ideas. Then, if you are dealing with people from religious backgrounds of a non-Christian type, he does treat the world's major faith traditions. If the person is entirely faithless or atheist, that would probably be the greatest shortcoming. It is a great series, though. He is a talented lecturer.
Thanks for your kind words. Regarding your last comment about atheism, it's worth noting that I put an appendix on atheism and agnosticism in the book version of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, which is considerably revised and expanded in comparison to the podcast. It can be purchased in both paperback and as an e-book at the following sites: http://www.conciliarpress.com/products/Orthodoxy-and-Heterodoxy.htmlhttp://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Heterodoxy-Andrew-Stephen-Damick/dp/1936270137http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/orthodoxy-and-heterodoxy-fr-andrew-damick/1113639532?ean=2940013515208I just want to say I love your work, Father.
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izrima
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« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2012, 04:43:58 PM » |
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For sure evangelization would benefit from better books and resources. I hope we can do more. Ancient Faith Radio, for example, is a very effective tool. Speaking of which, podcast-wise, you might check out Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick's Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy lecture series on AFR. There is a fair amount of terminology, but in one of the first podcasts in the series, he tries to define some of the key terms and ideas. Then, if you are dealing with people from religious backgrounds of a non-Christian type, he does treat the world's major faith traditions. If the person is entirely faithless or atheist, that would probably be the greatest shortcoming. It is a great series, though. He is a talented lecturer.
Thanks for your kind words. Regarding your last comment about atheism, it's worth noting that I put an appendix on atheism and agnosticism in the book version of Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy, which is considerably revised and expanded in comparison to the podcast. It can be purchased in both paperback and as an e-book at the following sites: http://www.conciliarpress.com/products/Orthodoxy-and-Heterodoxy.htmlhttp://www.amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Heterodoxy-Andrew-Stephen-Damick/dp/1936270137http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/orthodoxy-and-heterodoxy-fr-andrew-damick/1113639532?ean=2940013515208Wow, this reminds me of the first time a comedian tweeted back at me on Twitter! Father, I'd heard rumors you posted here. I am glad to see them confirmed. I got through your lecture series faster than any podcast archive I've yet to encounter--Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is whatever the audio equivalent of a pageturner would be. I have a big stack of Orthodox books to get through at the moment, but I intend to include your book in the next batch I order. Thank you for your hard work!
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asdamick
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« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2012, 05:04:51 PM » |
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Wow, this reminds me of the first time a comedian tweeted back at me on Twitter! Father, I'd heard rumors you posted here. I am glad to see them confirmed. I got through your lecture series faster than any podcast archive I've yet to encounter--Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy is whatever the audio equivalent of a pageturner would be. I have a big stack of Orthodox books to get through at the moment, but I intend to include your book in the next batch I order. Thank you for your hard work!
You're welcome! Thanks for listening and reading!
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Buy Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy: Exploring Belief Systems Through the Lens of the Ancient Christian Faith via Conciliar Press or Amazon.com!
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2012, 05:40:30 PM » |
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Clare G.
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2012, 06:39:35 PM » |
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Apologies for not returning here earlier. Many thanks to all for your suggestions.
I'm reluctant to recommend podcasts because I don't listen to any myself (I have a hearing problem). I prefer to offer a book that I have personally read and can, if appropriate, suggest sections to start on or to skip.
I especially like the sound of Fr Papavassiliou's book (and have ordered a copy; thank you Orthodox 11). Both these enquirers are already coming to our Sunday services; we are a small mission church with a monastic pattern of weekday and Sunday services, with Liturgy only once a month. I would not call them atheists or even agnostics: they simply have no knowledge of Christianity. This makes most of the books that explain Orthodoxy to the heterodox inappropriate. Yet it is wonderful (and a great responsibility) that in the new country to which they have come, they have been introduced to Orthodoxy first.
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LenInSebastopol
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« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2013, 03:24:44 PM » |
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The Mountain of Silence by Kyriacos Markides is a book that helped me a lot. It's about the Athonite tradition of Christian spirituality and prayer of the heart.
The only thing to be aware of is that sometimes the author expresses views that don't quite agree with "orthodox" Orthodoxy, but it's fairly easy to tell when he is giving his own interpretation instead of the interpretation of the Church. He is an academically trained sociologist, which at least partially accounts for some of his non-traditional interpretations of things. But on the whole it is a good book.
Our priest read page 85 to us catechumens and it was AWESOME. Gave us true insight into suffering and the meaning of, why, etc. Praise God.
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Mark 14: 36
God is with us, understand O' ye nations, and submit yourselves, for God is with us
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