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Author Topic: Prayer Corner Suggestions  (Read 15596 times) Average Rating: 0
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The young fogey
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« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2008, 12:50:00 PM »

It spread but came from the Ukraine.
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2008, 01:05:25 PM »

I see, thank you.  There appear to be several icons with these as part of the depiction.  The Mystical Supper icon I have has a type of clothe draped over the church where the Christ and Apostles are sitting.  Also, I have a few icons of St. Gabriel the ArchAngel in which he has what looks like a Jewish prayer shawl in his hair.  I just wonder if these two depictions are related to the rushnyky?  It does seem as though the covering of religious objects has it's beginnings in the Middle East.
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« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2008, 01:33:55 PM »

It spread but came from the Ukraine.
I don't think that there is any proof that this custom originated in Ukraine, as it is too widespread all throughout Eastern Europe to have originated in a specific area.
Every East European nation, whether Orthodox or Catholic knows of these ritual towels.
In Romania they are also handed out to the people present at a burial, either wrapped around a taper or bound around one's arm or bound to the crosses at the top of the banners or the processional Cross.
http://www.aacurrier.org/Ritual%20Towels.htm
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« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2008, 02:24:26 PM »

I don't think that there is any proof that this custom originated in Ukraine, as it is too widespread all throughout Eastern Europe to have originated in a specific area.
http://www.aacurrier.org/Ritual%20Towels.htm

I don't have anything other than informal observation to back this up, but I think that Augustin717 is right.  Slavic culture, generally, attached a ritual importance to linen and towels.  Towels are an important gift in Serbian culture, and folk songs of the area are full of references to the washing of linen.  Towels (now sashes) are worn by the best man (kum) and stari svat at a Serbian wedding.  It might be a pan-Slavic custom that then influenced neighboring peoples.  I know of Catholic Hungarian homes where towels were hung on pictures of the Sacred Heart, etc.

I see, thank you.  There appear to be several icons with these as part of the depiction.  The Mystical Supper icon I have has a type of clothe draped over the church where the Christ and Apostles are sitting.  Also, I have a few icons of St. Gabriel the ArchAngel in which he has what looks like a Jewish prayer shawl in his hair.  I just wonder if these two depictions are related to the rushnyky?  It does seem as though the covering of religious objects has it's beginnings in the Middle East.

The object you see in Gabriel's hair is a ribbon, which is also a standard element of the iconography of any Archangel.  It's upturned ends signify the spiritual hearing of the angel, always attentive to the commands of God.

The cloth that you see in the icon of the Mystical Supper has a different origin.  Such a motif has its origin in Roman decorative painting (do a Google image search on "Boscoreale" or "House of the Vettii" and you can see what I mean). Icon painting's "visual vocabulary" is most indebted to Late Antique style.  Drapery hung in the opening of windows and doorways is one such motif (if you are interested in the development and use of this, look through some of the fresco images from Pompeii, and then do a search on the illustrations of the "Vergilius Vaticanus" and "Vergilius Romanus" manuscripts.  Both are late Antique copies of Virgil's Aeneid.  Do a search then for the mosaics of San Apollinare Nuovo in Ravenna, the consular Diptych of Flavius Felix, the procession of Empress Theodora in the Basillica of San Vitale, and finally on the iconography of the four evangelists as they are writing their gospel.)

That's not to say it might not have a more "spiritual" meaning.  Depending on the prototype, one could also argue that it probably references the veil of the Jewish temple as well as the curtain in front of the altar.
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« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2008, 11:26:31 PM »

augustin717 and SiviSokol,

Thank you both for the very helpful and enlightening info.  I really appreciate it!! Wink
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« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2008, 12:30:15 AM »

I was fooling around with our (relatively) new camera and managed to take some snaps of my icon corners at home and at work.  I thought I'd share and maybe kickstart this thread so others can share theirs as well.

My icon corner at home, wedged in between the desk (which you can't see) and the bookshelf (of which you can see the corner).  Someday we'll have a larger place where things won't feel so crowded.  Outside of Lent, an icon of the Resurrection has pride of place on the shelf, but during Lent one of the Ladder of St. John Climacus is displayed.



This is my little prayer space at work.  The icons of our Lord and the Theotokos were my very first and the one of St. Joseph was commissioned after I landed this position which I've been at for nearly 4 years now.  The large Celtic cross hanging is actually a print made on a thin cloth like one would get as a souvenir in the '70s.  A coworker of my sister gave it to her knowing of my love of the artform and she then got it framed for me as a Christmas gift some years back.  I thought it worked well for my office considering all the other Irish/Scottish material I have scattered about the place.
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Wow Schultz, what a beautiful icon corner! I have tried using corner shelves in the past, but have always had trouble making them level.   I will post a picture of my prayer corner when I can figure how to edit the picture to the right size to upload.
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« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2008, 12:32:28 AM »

Schultz,

BTW, I noticed you have an icon of st. Seraphim. As an Eastern Catholic, do you recognize Orthodox saints?
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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2008, 10:19:23 AM »

As I wrote in another thread yesterday, at home you can venerate anyone including people on 'the other side'.

St Seraphim of Sarov and the other post-schism Orthodox saints aren't in the Ruthenian or Ukrainian Greek Catholic liturgical books so they're not commemmorated/venerated in church there.

But they are in the books of the tiny Russian Greek Catholic Church: Rome believes that born Orthodox are not personally guilty of schism and thus get the benefit of the doubt.

BTW the Russian Greek Catholic Church began in the late 1800s when a few Russian intellectuals converted on their own to Rome, which decided to pick it up and try and run with it. Essentially it was a plan to convert the Russian Orthodox that failed. (It had a tiny following in the intelligentsia and then the Communists killed it.) Today it's a handful of churches, some in Russia again made up of people who converted on their own (the Vatican does not allow proselytism of the Orthodox) and some in America - New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco - consisting of born Roman Catholics who love everything Russian Orthodox but don't want to leave Rome.
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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2008, 01:48:52 PM »

As I wrote in another thread yesterday, at home you can venerate anyone including people on 'the other side'.


Hey, I hope I don't derail the topic, but can you say something more about being able to venerate "people on 'the other side'" - including, as you wrote in that previous post, late protestant grandparents?  Because I've heard it explained that what you do to an icon is what you do to the person depicted, and it was explained to me by way of this example: that you would kiss the photograph of a person distant from you or who was passed away, and that is like what we do to icons.  By that logic I've placed a small drawing of my deceased mother's portrait near to my icon corner but not quite in it, and I do kiss it, but probably not with as much faith that it does anything like venerating an icon.  Am I wrong about that? 
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« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2008, 01:55:15 PM »

Sounds right to me.
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« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2008, 02:54:47 PM »

Hey, I hope I don't derail the topic, but can you say something more about being able to venerate "people on 'the other side'" - including, as you wrote in that previous post, late protestant grandparents?  Because I've heard it explained that what you do to an icon is what you do to the person depicted, and it was explained to me by way of this example: that you would kiss the photograph of a person distant from you or who was passed away, and that is like what we do to icons.  By that logic I've placed a small drawing of my deceased mother's portrait near to my icon corner but not quite in it, and I do kiss it, but probably not with as much faith that it does anything like venerating an icon.  Am I wrong about that? 
Actually, the best way to ask a question such as this--excellent question, BTW--without derailing an existing thread is to start a new thread with your question.
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« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2008, 04:27:01 PM »

Schultz,

BTW, I noticed you have an icon of st. Seraphim. As an Eastern Catholic, do you recognize Orthodox saints?

As tYF pointed out, there's no problem with an Eastern Catholic (or a Latin Catholic for that matter) venerating an Orthodox saint.  St. Seraphim of Sarov was the first Eastern saint, Orthodox or Catholic, I became interested in and through which I eventually found myself in in a Ruthenian parish, much like how St. Therese of Lisieux was instrumental in my coming back to the faith at all.  They both hold a special place in my heart and a special one in my corner.  Were I Ukie or Rusyn, I would have rusnyk on both of them!*

* yes, I know I still can, but it would feel like I was trying to be something I'm not as I see rusnyky as a cultural thing.  Us Kraut-Scot hybrids don't have anything like that.  All we have is an efficient frugality Wink
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« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2008, 04:29:08 PM »


Wow Schultz, what a beautiful icon corner! I have tried using corner shelves in the past, but have always had trouble making them level.   I will post a picture of my prayer corner when I can figure how to edit the picture to the right size to upload.

A cheap pocket level purchased at your local hardware store and a pencil are your friends Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2008, 04:29:05 PM »

I use this method, which only requires a measuring tape and a pencil. Hold your measuring tape so one end is perpendicular to the ceiling. Make a mark with your pencil where one corner of your icon will be, a certain number of inches from the ceiling. Then move the tape to the other corner (e.g. if you chose top left, go to the top right; if you chose bottom right, go to the bottom left). and mark the same number of inches from the ceiling. Hang your icon, and it will be level! You can use a level to verify, but I've never found this method to fail.
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« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2008, 04:35:44 PM »

Wow Schultz, what a beautiful icon corner! I have tried using corner shelves in the past, but have always had trouble making them level.   I will post a picture of my prayer corner when I can figure how to edit the picture to the right size to upload.
You may already be familiar with the site.

http://www.imageshack.us/

You can upload and resize images there.


Yours in Christ
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« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2008, 07:39:39 PM »

You may already be familiar with the site.

http://www.imageshack.us/

You can upload and resize images there.


Yours in Christ
Paisius

Thanks for the help.

OK, Here is my icon corner (you might want to click on it because it is kind of hard to see). The icons on the bottom are for my kids. This has been a great tool in teaching them how to pray. They look forward to venerating the icons the most when we do the prayers together.

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Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2008, 08:34:41 AM »

When our children were small we had laminated paper icons low enough in each of their rooms so they could venerte them and have a small icon corner of their own.  Now that they are adults they have mainatained them in their own homes much higher up, one of them now has some of those icons framed and in her own  icon corner today.

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« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2008, 11:01:26 AM »

The icons on the bottom are for my kids.



That is great!
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« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2008, 12:14:35 PM »

Here's my little corner.  I took this pic w/ my cell phone.
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« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2008, 12:21:42 PM »

I really like the little corner table.  I just have a little corner shelf with a square bedside table beneath it.  The drawers are convenient for storage but its squareness impedes access to the icons somewhat. 

Which icons would you all consider indispensible?  My first two were of the Theotokos and of Christ, and I now have one of my patron saint (but I keep her in the kitchen - I'm there a lot, and it's Saint Anna, so being as I lost my own mother recently it's nice to have a motherly presence in the kitchen where it feels like a mom belongs).  I also printed out a photograph of St. John of San Francisco (the smiling one - he was the first Orthodox saint I fell in love with).  I think I should get St. John the Forerunner and I also am drawn to St. Herman of Alaska.  I'm still only a catechumen, though, so the number is growing slowly.
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« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2008, 01:00:44 PM »

Here's my little corner.  I took this pic w/ my cell phone.

Did you and Nacho blow off the dust that has accumulated on it over the past year?  Cheesy

Just teasing ya!
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O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2008, 01:08:54 PM »


I now have one of my patron saint (but I keep her in the kitchen - I'm there a lot, and it's Saint Anna, so being as I lost my own mother recently it's nice to have a motherly presence in the kitchen where it feels like a mom belongs). 

That's a very nice thing to do!  I feel the same way about St. Anna, but more as an intercessor for mothers and their children.  I think she is a real comfort to me at least.

I'd go slow on the icon collecting until you have a clear idea of what saints speak to you.  It's easy to want to have one of everything, but as someone else observed, your icon corner becomes too cluttered and you lose focus rather than gain it.  You will also find that most converts have an extra set of icons, usually the smaller size, that they acquired as catechumens, and that wind up in storage somewhere.  They later upgraded to bigger sizes (often when they felt more comfortable with icons as  a whole) or got hand written icons and their first icons are shelved.  It's a nice gesture to pass on those first icons to the newly chrismated  (no selling them on Ebay or at your church bookstore since they have probably been blessed and that would be simony), 
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« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2008, 01:57:47 PM »

(no selling them on Ebay or at your church bookstore since they have probably been blessed and that would be simony), 

Forgive me, but that seems a bit of a stretch from Webster, in which simony is defined as "the buying or selling of a church office" (i.e. episcopal authority).  Does Orthodoxy really prohibit the sale of blessed objects?  Huh  If so, I guess I'd better never sell my house.
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« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2008, 02:24:36 PM »

Forgive me, but that seems a bit of a stretch from Webster, in which simony is defined as "the buying or selling of a church office" (i.e. episcopal authority).  Does Orthodoxy really prohibit the sale of blessed objects?  Huh  If so, I guess I'd better never sell my house.

I certainly see what you mean by the house, but I'm going by what my first priest told me and it seemed to make sense at the time - giving away was fine, but selling was not.  Anyone out there - is the selling of blessed icons truly simony and where do you draw the line?
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« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2008, 06:37:12 PM »

Photos of deceased family members that are especially beloved can also be an important addition to a prayer corner. When I pray before the various icons there, I also pray for and to some special loved ones. It's a two-way street, you know, and a way to ease grief at the loss of a parent, etc. by continuing the connection.

Our corner also includes pussy-willows and palm fronds from the last Pascha.
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« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2011, 09:21:40 AM »

I am trying not to begin a new thread on a regular topic, i hope that's okay. I thought I'd resurrect this one to make my comment.

I have just put up a few icons in the corner of my room, nothing elaborate, plain white frames, three in total. I still don't feel entirely comfortable with having an icon corner but i do like to sit and ponder the images during times of reflection, it does help focus my thoughts.

Some of the snaps of icon corners posted above, are lovely.

Has anyone else originating from a protestant faith found this particularly difficult?

~ Dyhn
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« Reply #71 on: December 30, 2011, 12:16:41 PM »

we received icons of our patron saints when were Chrismated and my wife and I have been discussing setting up a prayer corner. I was thinking in the corner o our dining room but my wife wants to place it in the living room right over the fireplace mantel which is the most prominent wall in our house.

Does the height really matter & would this be too high? I had thought his would be good since we could use the mantel to place a standing vigil lamp on as well as prayer books and bible.
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« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2012, 11:07:51 PM »

I really like your home icon corner.  It doesn't look crowded to me.  I think the icon stands (?) with votives really make it.   Where'd you come by those if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks!  It feels crowded mostly because of the space surrounding it.

As for the icon frames, I made those after seeing one for sale on the internet a few years ago.  I can't seem to locate it now, but it was an Orthodox site that sold stands and whatnot in addition to icons.  The hardest part was getting the onion dome looking right but after fiddling with a compass and graph paper for about an hour I figured out a way to make it symmetrical without making the process too complicated.  They're both made of pine stained with a dark cherry finish.
Wow, you made those? Incredible. Smiley They're quite beautiful.
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« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2012, 12:21:51 AM »

Has anyone else originating from a protestant faith found this particularly difficult?

Not Protestant, other than cultural affiliation, but I did struggle with it for a time.  I felt that the prohibition on graven images/idols was pretty clear-cut and saw that the other two Abrahamic faiths largely follow this.

Among other things, St. John of Damascus' treatises, On the Divine Images helped me understand why iconography is acceptable and an appropriate form of worship. 
Reading the treatises simultaneously cemented my disdain for visually representing God the Father. It flies in the face of St. John's arguments (and those accepted by the Church). [Different subject though, not intended to derail].

Back to suggestions, along with many converts, I was pretty deliberate about my selections (as an affordable variety is available).  People can make fun of that all they want, but finding images that a. were not theologically iffy and b. resonated with me, was an important step towards incorporating them.
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