Author Topic: Western Rite Communion???  (Read 3226 times)

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Offline prodromas

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Western Rite Communion???
« on: August 05, 2007, 02:34:53 AM »
I recently saw a video for Saint Paul Antiochian Orthodox church in Houston. Not being very educated in the Western rite churches I was a bit confused at the way that communion is administered in this church. It was administered with a wafer like the Catholics? Is this the way that all Western rite churches administer communion? Sorry if this question offends or confuses as I am Greek Orthodox and All I have ever seen is with bread and wine.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2007, 09:28:15 AM »
They are actually using leaven bread which has been flattened and baked to look like wafers.
Basically it's leavened bread made to look like the unleavened bread that Anglicans and Catholics would be familiar with.
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2007, 01:39:11 PM »
In my church (Milan Synod, Western Rite Orthodox), it's bread, no wafers. Leavened bread, cut into pieces during the Proskomede (i.e. the service preceding the Divine Liturgy, when the faithful are still gathering), and soaked in the chalice filled with red wine and warm water.
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Offline prodromas

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2007, 06:54:01 PM »
Heorhij that is the form of communion I am most aware of. I was just curious as it looked disturbingly close to the Catholic rite of communion.
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Offline Thomas

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2007, 07:02:57 PM »
Milan Synod, is actually much closer to Eastern Practices than most western rite congregations.I have seen some western rite parishes using levened bread that has been pressed flatwith seal on it looking like a Latin Church Host, likewise I have seen small loaves similar to a slavic style prophora being used in communion with  small cut pieces being given during the commmunion. Most , but not all, western rite congegrations seperate the bread and wine, some cradling the bread (Body) reverently in their hand than then taking it to their mouth (most like Orthdoox Clergy do when they commune) and others have it placed on the tongue directly by the priest.

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« Last Edit: August 05, 2007, 09:10:31 PM by Thomas »
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Offline Aristibule

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2007, 09:15:37 PM »
Milan Synod, is actually much closer to Eastern Practices than most western rite congregations.I have seen some western rite parishes using levened bread that has been pressed flatwith seal on it being, likewise I have seen small loaves similar to a slavic style prophora being used in communion with  small cut pieces being given during the commmunion. Most , but not all, western rite congegrations seperate the bread and wine, some cradling the bread (Body) reverently in their hand than then taking it to their mouth (most like Orthdoox Clergy do when they commune) and others have it placed on the tongue directly by the priest.

Exactly - in ROCOR WRITE, we normally use small leavened loaves after the ancient Western manner - strangely enough similar to what some Anglicans have used over the past few centuries. They follow the early canons of the Western local councils of Braganza and Braga - they are small, white, whole, round, wheaten, and leavened. Normally they are marked with a cross, and at the preparation are cut  into small cubes (three cuts with the formula 'Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last'). The small portions are arranged on the paten in the form of a wheeled cross (which one can see in the Stowe Missal, in fact, so it is quite old.)

We also have some variation on how people receive, like the AWRV. Some kneel, some stand - normally we receive at the chancel arch/rood screen, with the white houselling cloth held beneath our chins. A throne is made with our hands for receiving the body, and we drink from the chalice, just as the rubrics for the liturgy of St. James share with our rite  - infirm can be intincted, IIRC. (Though I haven't seen it done.)
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Offline Ebor

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2007, 09:43:46 AM »
They are actually using leaven bread which has been flattened and baked to look like wafers.
Basically it's leavened bread made to look like the unleavened bread that Anglicans and Catholics would be familiar with.

Well, I don't know how things are done in Australia, but here in the US, Anglicans are not umm bound to any particular kind of bread.  As long as it is a baked grain product it can be used.  I've seen leavened loaves, pita type breads, the little wafers ("angelic fish food" as Fr. Robert Capon referred to them once) Oat cakes (for St. Andrew's Day, the Fraction of which made for an amazing quantity of crumbs.) It's got to be some kind of *bread* and there are myriad forms of that on this planet.  :) 

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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2007, 11:17:13 AM »
Well, I don't know how things are done in Australia, but here in the US, Anglicans are not umm bound to any particular kind of bread.  As long as it is a baked grain product it can be used.  I've seen leavened loaves, pita type breads, the little wafers ("angelic fish food" as Fr. Robert Capon referred to them once) Oat cakes (for St. Andrew's Day, the Fraction of which made for an amazing quantity of crumbs.) It's got to be some kind of *bread* and there are myriad forms of that on this planet.  :) 
Is this a recent practice Ebor?
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Offline Aristibule

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2007, 10:25:20 PM »
Well, I know from that passed down that leavened bread was being used by Anglicans (and Methodists still in the Anglican Church) in the 18th c. Normally just leavened bread one could get at the bakers was used - nothing specially prepared. The use of leavened bread (artos) is one of those odd things where the Protestants actually went back towards Orthodoxy, rather than further away. I think Pita became popular due to scholarship (which isn't always correct). Wafers would have been more from the influence of the Anglo-Catholic movement.
"We must begin at once to "build again the tabernacle which is fallen down, and to build again the ruins thereof, and to set it up;" for HE WHO GAVE THE THOUGHT IN OUR HEART HE LAID ALSO THE RESPONSIBILITY ON US THAT THIS THOUGHT SHOULD NOT REMAIN BARREN." - J.J. Overbeck, 1866

Offline Ebor

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2007, 11:46:32 AM »
Is this a recent practice Ebor?

I would have to do a bit if research if you would like some documentation, but from what I have seen in over 30 years as an Anglican, and read about, my Church tended to used whatever bread was available.  Pita has been used as it became more available.  Wafers may be kept in stock because they keep well and are good for small groups/week-day Eucharists and the like.  I once heard of a noontime college Eucharist in which the sacristy was found to be out of wafers, so they used some bread from a worshiper's lunch bag (not a sandwich, it was just bread). 

I hope that you are careful and also have fun skiing.  :)

Ebor
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Online ialmisry

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Re: Western Rite Communion???
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2007, 10:24:21 AM »
Exactly - in ROCOR WRITE, we normally use small leavened loaves after the ancient Western manner - strangely enough similar to what some Anglicans have used over the past few centuries. They follow the early canons of the Western local councils of Braganza and Braga - they are small, white, whole, round, wheaten, and leavened. Normally they are marked with a cross, and at the preparation are cut  into small cubes (three cuts with the formula 'Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last'). The small portions are arranged on the paten in the form of a wheeled cross (which one can see in the Stowe Missal, in fact, so it is quite old.)

We also have some variation on how people receive, like the AWRV. Some kneel, some stand - normally we receive at the chancel arch/rood screen, with the white houselling cloth held beneath our chins. A throne is made with our hands for receiving the body, and we drink from the chalice, just as the rubrics for the liturgy of St. James share with our rite  - infirm can be intincted, IIRC. (Though I haven't seen it done.)

The last point is important: the rubrics of St. James, undoubtedly Eastern, also has the same manner of receiving the Eucharist as the WRO.
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