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Author Topic: Church and Social Justice (split from "Female Priests" thread)  (Read 6291 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2007, 01:17:38 PM »

Western society is very much dependant on trampling upon human rights, human dignity and equality. In the era of globalisation what has happened is that these practices have been exported from the metropolitan homelands. People in their millions around the world work for less than dollar a day to produce goods and services consumed in the West by relatively free and affluent Westerners. What the Church should do is follow the example of the prophets and denounce the hypocrisy and injustice of societies that pretend concern about the dignity of man while trampling upon it all around the world. Not to mention abortion at home.

What you imply is exploitation is the introduction of technology and the improvement of life in these countries, we are taking these primitive agrarian societies and industrializing them, we are using our money and our wealth to help them acheive what we were forced to achieve on our own in the 19th Century. Would it be better if we could move them straight from backwards agrarian societies to modern western civilizations overnight? Of course, but this simply isn't possible, the infastructure alone takes decades, if not centuries, to develop; there is the economic infastructure, solid monetary unit, banks, stock markets, etc., etc., which take time to establish and build up; perhaps most importantly, a relatively ignorant people need to become educated, even after the schools are established and the luxury of attending them for several years is made economically viable, generations will be required to bring the society to an intellectual level where it can sustain itself as a western nation, creating wealth primarily through its creative class.

The problem at hand isn't hypocrisy, the problem is reality, as a nation that was primarily agrarian 70 years ago, and has only become truly post-industrial in the past 30-40 years, we simply don't have the means to change the world overnight. However, we have long recognized that it is in our best interest to upgrade the countries world to our current status, our best political think tanks have emphasized that this is essentially the way we must win the war on terrorism, and from an economic perspective, while cheap industrial labour is nice, we can build robots to do that for only a slightly higher upfront cost...what would be infinitely more benificial would be larger consumer markets, more people to buy ipods, music, and prescription drugs: and that market doesn't develop from people making a dollar a day.
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« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2007, 02:04:25 PM »

You assume that industrialisation and the consumer society are Good Things. That is not necessarily so. An industrialisation based on children working 60 hours a week for less money than you spend on a quart of milk is not good. A consumer society that seeks happiness in possessing more and more things is not a Christian friendly society. What you are talking about is colonialism. What the British Empire termed the White Man's burden about a hundred years ago when their empire covered 25% of the globe. They said then what you say now. We need to hold the whip hand because we are advanced and civilised and they are backward. Once we educate them up to our level then they can do what they like. Until then they will do what they are told. Or as Kipling put it

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go, bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait, in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain,
To seek another's profit
And work another's gain.


Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No iron rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go, make them with your living
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

You will note the bits I have bolded represent what the Empire then and the USA today says about itself. Sacrificing themselves selflessly for others freedom and benefit. Of course its really all about profit. Liberal Imperialism is just Imperialism. Its like the squirrels, just rats with good PR.
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« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2007, 09:58:46 PM »

You assume that industrialisation and the consumer society are Good Things. That is not necessarily so. An industrialisation based on children working 60 hours a week for less money than you spend on a quart of milk is not good. A consumer society that seeks happiness in possessing more and more things is not a Christian friendly society. What you are talking about is colonialism. What the British Empire termed the White Man's burden about a hundred years ago when their empire covered 25% of the globe. They said then what you say now. We need to hold the whip hand because we are advanced and civilised and they are backward. Once we educate them up to our level then they can do what they like. Until then they will do what they are told. Or as Kipling put it

Much credit must be given to the British Empire to bring civilization to peoples who had not previously known it. The glory of India before the comming of the empire paled in comparison to its state after the empire left, today much of India India stands on the verge of entering the first world, with the significance of industry diminishing and the creative class on the rise. Then of North America...of the US and Canada, surely no one could argue the progress seen in these places thanks to the imperial activities of the British. An entire continent, which before the British Empire came was as primitive and barbaric as any in the world has ever been, and today stands at the head of the civilized world. These things are very good, it is good for people to not have to worry about food, it is good for peoples of the world to live in luxury, and that is what civilization brings, standards of living unequaled in the history of the world to the extent that paupers in modern society enjoy luxuries and, in some manners, standards of living of which past princes and even emperors could not have dreamt. Behold the blessings of technology and of western civilization, why would we not give this gift to the world? Why should we be so cruel as to deny comfort to our neighbours? You would seem to suggest that we should keep the fruits of civilization to ourselves, while watching the struggles of others from afar...sure, it might make good documentaries, but it's hardly an appropriate foreign policy for a civilized and charitable people.

Or would you prefer we allow ignorance and extremism to reign in the rest of the world, ignoring the human suffering that results, while we simply turn in on ourselves?
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2007, 10:01:29 PM »

Does this mean you're now 'englishischristian'?  Cheesy
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« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2007, 10:19:32 PM »

LOL Cheesy
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"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
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