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sohma_hatori
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« on: July 28, 2007, 10:46:13 AM »

Im a Catholic, still on the process of conversion to Orthodoxy...

I was wondering if you could help me.. Id like to learn more about Orthodoxy, so i think I should start with my prayers.
First, can you teach me how to do the Sign of the Cross the Orthodox way?
And secondly, can you introduce me to prayers, like everyday prayers or prayers before eating meals and stuff like those. Id be willing to change my daily prayers with those of the Orthodox..

Forgive my ignorance if those statements have something not right in them. Its just that, i cant find any person here in our place who can help me to learn more about Orthodoxy, although i am eager to convert. I humbly beg to the goodness of your heart, help me to pray in the Orthodox way of prayer.

Thanks..

In the Name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit..
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« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007, 11:32:56 AM »

Im a Catholic, still on the process of conversion to Orthodoxy...

I was wondering if you could help me.. Id like to learn more about Orthodoxy, so i think I should start with my prayers.
First, can you teach me how to do the Sign of the Cross the Orthodox way?
And secondly, can you introduce me to prayers, like everyday prayers or prayers before eating meals and stuff like those. Id be willing to change my daily prayers with those of the Orthodox..

Forgive my ignorance if those statements have something not right in them. Its just that, i cant find any person here in our place who can help me to learn more about Orthodoxy, although i am eager to convert. I humbly beg to the goodness of your heart, help me to pray in the Orthodox way of prayer.

Thanks..

In the Name of the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit..

God bless.  I am currently on the same path, from Roman Catholicism to Holy Orthodoxy.  Smiley

For the sign of the cross, you join your thumb, index finger and middle finger together (unity of the Holy Trinity), while your ring finger and little finger bend towards your palm (two natures of Christ).  You cross yourself from your foreheard, to your solar plexus (upper stomach, not your breast like RCs), then your right shoulder, and then left.  Some bow afterwards, some don't.

For prayers:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour of our souls.  (I say 150 of these daily)

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.


Here is also a site I found with some too  -->  http://home.it.com.au/~jgrapsas/pages/orth_prayer.html

Hope that gets you started.  Smiley

Lord, have mercy.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2007, 11:33:11 AM by Friul » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2007, 12:05:51 PM »

The Old Jordanville Prayer Book is considered, by many, to be one of the best prayer books offering spiritual guidance to the faithful or to those who wish to become part of Christ's most HOly Orthodox Church.  The link is:

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

You may want to give this a cursory glance and then decide what works for you.  I would also ask that you do this in consultation and under the guidance of a priest.  If that is not a possibility right now, then use the prayers as you see fit.  Many of the prayers may seem foreign if not in far left field.  Don't try to do too much at first.  Pace yourself.  There is so much content in these prayers and profundity that one can be frustrated if one does not understand what he/she is praying.  Such was the case with myself when I first started using Orthodox prayers.  But, as I said before, I would highly recommend that you pray with the help and guidance of an Orthodox priest, if one is available to you.

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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2007, 01:50:31 PM »

Dear Sohma_Hatori,

God bless your search for Truth!

The link that Scamandrius kindly provided contains, essentially, all of the prayers that are in my little "Molytovnyk" (a prayer book), printed by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA. I have acquired the habit of saying these prayers quickly (aloud, although not loudly, but also not quite whispering) in front of the Holy Icons of our Savior, the Most Holy Theotokos, and my patron saint (St. George the Dragon Slayer), every evening and morning.

Informal prayers - or improvised prayers, I am not sure which term is better - can certainly be added to these. My "Molytovnyk" says that in the morning, one possible time to add your own personal "informal" or "improvised" prayers is right after the Remenberance (i.e. after the part when you pray for the Church, for the civil authorities, for your spiritual Father, for your parents, friends, the old, the young, the poor, etc., and before you pray for the departed). In the evening, it's after the prayer to your patron saint and before the Kontakion to the Most Holy Theotokos.

Before meals, the Molytovnyk suggests "Our Father" and the following quick prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, you blessed the food of your disciples; bless also this food, for we believe in you, we have hope in you, we pray to you and we glorify you, to the ages of ages, amen."

Also, there is this simpliest and shortest and most wonderful of all prayers, the Jesus prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." The Orthodox are encouraged to learn to say this prayer continuously, and especially when you experience any difficulties, struggle, turmoil, anger, frustration, envy, or any of the so-called "passions."

All best,

George

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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2007, 08:59:34 PM »

Thanks so much!

Are there any words said when One makes the Sign of the Cross?

Now Im starting to pray the prayers you've given to me. I offer them unto you my brothers in Christ.

God bless...

In the Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit...
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2007, 09:08:37 PM »

There is a book you might find helpful (I'm assuming you are going to a Byzantine rite parish) - "The Orthodox Companion" by Fr. David F. Abramtsov. It was first published in the 1950s, but the Antiochian Archdiocese still publishes it. It covers Prayer, the Sign of the Cross, Other External Signs of Worship, Holy Icons, has explanations of many Orthodox Prayers, Prayers for throughout the Day and other occasions, helps for Confession and preparation for Holy Communion, and helpful talks on living an Orthodox life. (Of course, most of it applies to Western rite as well... so, still a good book.)
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« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 02:32:02 PM »

Whenever I make the sign of the cross, I say, "Glory to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages, Amen."

I never knew about the solar plexus part...I still touch my sternum. Oh well.]

If you can get a copy of them, "The Orthodox Church" and "The Orthodox Way" are good Catechism books. They are both by Bishop Kalistos Ware, though "The Orthodox Church" was written before he became a bishop and is under his original name, Timothy.

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« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 04:56:33 PM »

Thanks so much!

Are there any words said when One makes the Sign of the Cross?

Now Im starting to pray the prayers you've given to me. I offer them unto you my brothers in Christ.

God bless...

In the Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit...

Some say "In the name of the Father, and the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen", some say the Jesus Prayer, and others say other things.

I never knew about the solar plexus part...I still touch my sternum. Oh well.

If you can get a copy of them, "The Orthodox Church" and "The Orthodox Way" are good Catechism books. They are both by Bishop Kalistos Ware, though "The Orthodox Church" was written before he became a bishop and is under his original name, Timothy.

Seems to depend on the Priest with the solar plexus/sternum thing.  Some say if you touch your sternum you are crossing yourself with an inverted cross, others say it is fine.   Undecided

And I agree with Simayan, the two books are ones you should try and pick up.  Amazon.com has international shipping to the Philippines I believe.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 04:56:44 PM by Friul » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 11:23:14 PM »

Seems to depend on the Priest with the solar plexus/sternum thing.  Some say if you touch your sternum you are crossing yourself with an inverted cross, others say it is fine.   Undecided
I have actually become more conscious of this myself, despite no one telling me this.  I just noticed one day that I was marking myself with either a plus sign or an inverted cross.  A + sign is okay, but I don't like inverted crosses--too much like what I've seen in some satan-rock.  This is all a personal thing, though, so I don't expect anyone else to see it.
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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2007, 09:57:10 AM »

About Inverted Crosses.. Wasnt St. Peter crucified on one?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 09:58:33 AM by sohma_hatori » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2007, 10:40:20 AM »

So the tradition goes. Said he wasn't worthy of being crucified in the same way as Jesus.
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 09:48:19 AM »

Ive learned from a Filipino, whose is Orthodox (thru e-mail), that there are other Church Worship services, mailnly the Divine Liturgy, the Matins and the Vespers...

He didnt explain to me though what the Matins and the Vespers are...

Kindly enlighten me...

God bless...
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 09:55:16 AM »

"Matins. (Gr. Orthos). The Morning Service, which is combined with the liturgy. It begins with the reading of six psalms (Exapsalmos), the reading of the Gospel, the chanting of the Canon, and the Great Doxology.

...Vespers. (Gr. Esperinos; Sl. Litiya). An important service of the Orthodox Church, held in the evening, which is mainly a Thanksgiving prayer for the closing day and a welcome of the new one to come the following morning. On the eve of an important holiday, the Vesper Service includes Artoclasia or the blessing of the five loaves (Gr. artos; Sl. Litiya) for health and the well-being of the faithful."

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article9152.asp
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 11:28:33 PM »

It is also during Vespers and Matins that we read/sing most of the hymns specific to the calendar date.

During Vespers of an important feast or of Lent we will read one or more lessons from the Old Testament, and for every Sunday Matins one of a rotation of eleven Gospel proclamations of the Resurrection will be read.
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2007, 01:52:57 PM »

I've always wanted to see a Vespers or Matins service. Our church is so small that when the priest does have one, only the choir and 2 older women would show up, so he stopped doing them.

I'm sure I've seen elements of the two during Christmas and Pascha, but they're so interwoven into the special services I can never quite tell.
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2007, 10:19:36 PM »

Thanks to all of you..
You were a great help..

Dont worry Simayan, thru God's grace perhaps you'll be able to attend one in your place if the flock of the faithful there shall grow in multitude..

God bless...
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2007, 10:54:55 PM »

I'm sure I've seen elements of the two during Christmas and Pascha, but they're so interwoven into the special services I can never quite tell.
In fact, the Vesperal Divine Liturgies of St. Basil celebrated on the eves of Christmas and Pascha (Holy Saturday morning) are built largely on the Vespers service.  You essentially start with the first half of Vespers and then, after the long list of OT readings, transition into the Epistle and Gospel readings and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2007, 09:09:48 AM »

  Recently, the Virgin Mary of Fatima vigil has come to our house,and they've sent a statue of here to stay with us in our house for a week or so.
My family has been offering prayers of the Rosary to her, of course I prayed a different set of prayers, those that Friul taught me.
But as I was reading more about the Orthodox belief of the Theotokos, it said it never really acknowledge to a high extent the apparitions of the theotokos to the Catholic Church like the one in Fatima and that of Lourdes.
So I was wondering, what excactly IS the stand of the Eastern Church concerning this apparitions.


  Secondly, I was watching a tv broadcast of "Iglesia ni Kristo", a popular protestant movement here in the country. Its discussion at that time was about Idolatry, saying that Catholics as well as those of the "Eastern Church" are staunch worshippers of idols. He qouted from a Catholic priest that "we Catholics do NOT worship idols we only venerate the images of Christ, the saints and the like". But the pastor defended himself saying that, "isnt venerating images and worshipping them on the same lines, so still the two churches I mentioned are idolatious". he also added, "Kissing and bowing before this images and Statues are a clear proof of Catholic worship of Idols".

It may seem weird though but what excactly differentiates veneration from worship is what confused me while listening. What he said made me uneasy while i was praying before my Crucifix yesterday..
kindly enlighten me.

God bless....




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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2007, 12:16:09 PM »

  Recently, the Virgin Mary of Fatima vigil has come to our house,and they've sent a statue of here to stay with us in our house for a week or so.
My family has been offering prayers of the Rosary to her, of course I prayed a different set of prayers, those that Friul taught me.
But as I was reading more about the Orthodox belief of the Theotokos, it said it never really acknowledge to a high extent the apparitions of the theotokos to the Catholic Church like the one in Fatima and that of Lourdes.
So I was wondering, what excactly IS the stand of the Eastern Church concerning this apparitions.
The Eastern Orthodox Church does not really take a stance concerning these apparitions as a whole.  Some clergy will, and many Orthodox Christians believe in the apparitions, but the Church tends to distance itself from these occurrences.  You will encounter people from all over the board, including those who believe it is the Mother of God, those who believe it is actually a demon and those who just don't wish to pass any judgement.


Quote
  Secondly, I was watching a tv broadcast of "Iglesia ni Kristo", a popular protestant movement here in the country. Its discussion at that time was about Idolatry, saying that Catholics as well as those of the "Eastern Church" are staunch worshippers of idols. He qouted from a Catholic priest that "we Catholics do NOT worship idols we only venerate the images of Christ, the saints and the like". But the pastor defended himself saying that, "isnt venerating images and worshipping them on the same lines, so still the two churches I mentioned are idolatious". he also added, "Kissing and bowing before this images and Statues are a clear proof of Catholic worship of Idols".

It may seem weird though but what excactly differentiates veneration from worship is what confused me while listening. What he said made me uneasy while i was praying before my Crucifix yesterday..
kindly enlighten me.

Worship and veneration, I have found, is always a tough topic to discuss with Protestants since most refuse to believe there is a difference.  Worship is our reverence towards God and Him alone, and our acknowledgment of His absolute perfection, dominion (infinite nature), and knowledge.  Veneration on the other hand is honour given not to the icon itself, but to the person it represents.  We do not worship this person, but ask them for their prayers before the Almighty.  When you venerate an icon, you are honouring the saint, martyr, etc who it represents and in turn are honour God, since we were all made in His image.  Kissing and bowing are again, signs of honour and respect.  If you kiss a picture of a relative, are you doing it as a sign of love and respect, or are you worshiping them?

Hope this helps a bit, I tend to ramble a bit.   Tongue
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2007, 08:55:23 PM »

  If you kiss a picture of a relative, are you doing it as a sign of love and respect, or are you worshiping them?



We'll I definitely do NOT "worship my parents HAHAHA!

   What you said is true, about how difficult it is to differentiate worship and veneration, especially to convince protestants that there IS a difference.
   Its surprising that the people I heard of that time, believed that there founder was the Christ in His second coming. They claim to know the scriptures so well, I bet they havent read about Jesus telling His disciples excactly how He will come on His second triumphant return. To claim that Catholics and those of the Eastern CHurch are Idolatious.. What about them? They've seem to venerate that "Manalo" person, but "worshiping him' HAHA! Riduculous, they prayed to a living man who claimed to be Christ in His second coming.

   Can you recommend me a Saint in times of examinations, or at least a prayer to a saint who can help me at times of tests and examinations,im still a high school student you know. Hehe..

God bless...


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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2007, 09:43:15 PM »

Can you recommend me a Saint in times of examinations, or at least a prayer to a saint who can help me at times of tests and examinations,im still a high school student you know.
Well, I don't know of a particular saint, but I can offer a prayer from our prayer book:

"O Most-good Lord! Send down upon us the grace of Thy Holy Spirit, Who granteth gifts and strengtheneth the powers of our souls, so that by attending to the teaching given us, we may grow to the glory of Thee, our Creator, to the comfort of our parents, and to the service of the Church and our native land."

And after class:

"We thank thee, O Creator, that Thou hast vouchsafed us Thy grace to attend instruction. Bless our leaders, parents, and instructors who are leading us to an awareness of good, and grant us power and strength to continue this study."
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