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Author Topic: Mixed Martial Arts  (Read 2922 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: July 22, 2007, 06:34:42 PM »

I've never really gotten into MMA, but I read this opinion piece today and thought it interesting (though way too sensationalistic). Anyone out there watch this stuff on TV/PPV?
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2007, 09:41:01 PM »

Any suggestions, My seven year old grandson is into faux martial arts.  I have told his parents that he is a danger to the other kids because he thinks he knows what he is doing (too many Karate Kid movies) but doesn't---no training .  Any suggestions where I can point his parents to for a martial arts training that is not at odds with orthodoxy?

Thomas
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2007, 09:52:40 PM »

Any suggestions, My seven year old grandson is into faux martial arts.  I have told his parents that he is a danger to the other kids because he thinks he knows what he is doing (too many Karate Kid movies) but doesn't---no training .  Any suggestions where I can point his parents to for a martial arts training that is not at odds with orthodoxy?

I'm not sure what you mean by "at odds with Orthodoxy" in this context.  However, if you're wanting to avoid martial arts that also mix in meditation, etc., that will most likely vary from school to school.  If you mean something defensive in nature, rather than offensive, almost any martial art can be used offensively.  If I recall correctly, however, aikido focuses primarily on using an opponent's force against him, so it's a fairly defensive art.  I think almost any good school, however, would train students to fight only in self-defense or defense of another.
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2007, 10:23:09 PM »

I watch UFC fights from time to time with my friends. We'll order one on PPV and spend the evening critiquing each fighter's moves, and root for our favorite fighters, sometimes in opposition to each other. The only one in my little group that knows anything substantial about MMA is my best friend. He had the opportunity to train briefly with Pat Miletich in Iowa (my friend gave up his fighting career and moved back to Alaska).

But, generally, we respect the fighters, and the amount of training and conditioning these guys put themselves through in order to compete in tier one fighting leagues.

I will admit, though, I really dislike the excessive displays of glory ever present in modern sports (particularly boxing and MMA). These days good sportsmanship is an antiquated concept deserving of mockery. Pity.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 10:24:07 PM by ctoe » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2007, 10:53:24 PM »

Well, our oldest boy has been taking Tae Kwon Do (a Korean form) for a bit over 2 years.  It has been a big help to him in getting him aware of his body now that he has gotten to be 6 feet tall and had some awkwardness  with arms and legs that were longer then he was used to. (This is common in children after a growth spurt.  Their proprioception, awareness of their body and the relative position of the parts, takes a while to catch up with the new height/length.)  It also has given him some internal control and discipline that came into play when a kid at his middle school punched him (thinking that he was unobserved by any teachers) and he did not strike back (which would have gotten *him* in trouble).   The attacker was collared by the teacher and taken to the principal's office. The TKD master was pleased.  

While not EO, there's a good chance that Korean-Americans are Christian. Our son has never been taught anything that could conflict with Christianity there.  

Ebor
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 10:56:58 PM by Ebor » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2007, 11:56:36 PM »

Any suggestions, My seven year old grandson is into faux martial arts.  I have told his parents that he is a danger to the other kids because he thinks he knows what he is doing (too many Karate Kid movies) but doesn't---no training .  Any suggestions where I can point his parents to for a martial arts training that is not at odds with orthodoxy?

 First, I've always maintained that everyone, no matter what age or sex, should be involved in martial arts. There are so many great reasons but I'll list only a few. 1) It promotes self-confidence. 2) It teaches agility and control. 3) It teaches responsibility, discipline and respect for others (if you know that you can hurt someone, you'll more than likely practice self-restraint). 4) It teaches balance etc...

 There are many schools that combine Buddhist/Taoist philosophy with martial arts, but there are just as many, if not more, that do not. When I became interested in martial arts, I wanted a teacher who had a minimum of 20 years as a martial arts instructor. I'm not talking about the assistant instructors, but the owner of the school itself. I sat down with several teachers and interviewed them. I asked for credentials, who taught them, and so on. I also wanted him/her/them to be hands on *even when* the assistants were teaching. I also looked for humbleness. I don't mind ceremony or giving respect where it's due, but I didn't want a teacher who insisted on being called 'master'. I expected to be pushed and pushed hard, but also for the teacher to jump in and show me where and why I was failing. Some teachers are into criticizing you in front of others to prove they're the 'master' so just be on the lookout for them. Also, be on the lookout for blackbelt schools. Many of the TKD schools in the area here award a blackbelt in as little as two years. This is logistically impossible. Also, be wary of schools that want you to pay for large blocks at a time. One teacher here became irritated when I told him I needed to talk things over with my then wife before I signed anything. When I saw his attitude, I didn't go back.
 What type of martial art are you looking for? Karate? Aikido? Kung Fu? Judo? Muay Thai? Tae Kwan Do? Karate and Tae Kwan Do are very similar with many different kicks and punches. They are both defensive and offensive. Aikido and Judo are also very similar with mostly joint locks, throwing and pinning. Muay Thai is something that I'm not too familiar with, but I believe it is a type of kick-boxing. At first, I began learning Aikido. Find a documentary on Aikido, or watch a local demonstration. It is absolutely beautiful to watch. I realize this may sound strange, but Aikido, while being extremely deadly, is based on using your opponents motion against him. It is very fluid and soft and can be studied by people of all ages. I tried it for 6 months and had to give it up because I suffer from vertigo. Next, I went to Kenpo/Chu'an Fa Tang Shou. It was mostly Japanese (the Karate part), but had a lot of Chinese as well (Kenpo in China is known as Chu'an Fa Tang Shou). I loved every grueling, painful, bruising moment of it. Really. I was actually grateful that I could no longer study Aikido, because I came to love Kenpo so much. When I became a Christian, I had to make a choice. Either go to church or go to Kenpo. With my non-traditional work schedule, sadly I could not do both.
 Just interview several teachers. Make sure you have a good report with them. Check their credentials. And have fun... 
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2007, 01:48:10 AM »

Any suggestions, My seven year old grandson is into faux martial arts.  I have told his parents that he is a danger to the other kids because he thinks he knows what he is doing (too many Karate Kid movies) but doesn't---no training .  Any suggestions where I can point his parents to for a martial arts training that is not at odds with orthodoxy?

Thomas

Most Tang Su Do or Tae Kwon Do schools are usually just concerned with the physical (not metaphysical) aspects of Korean marshall arts. Tang Su Do is the more extensive; Tae Kwon Do is sort of the readers digest version developed to teach the Korean military.

Kung Fu schools tend to be more metaphysical. With Japanese styles, it is a mixed bag. I took Shotakan, and there was no eastern philosophy. I took kung fu (Chinese) and it was heavily philosophical and metaphysical. I eventually left it for that reason. 

Probably just get him in a Tae Kwon Do school.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 01:49:26 AM by BrotherAidan » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2007, 01:53:46 AM »

 

While not EO, there's a good chance that Korean-Americans are Christian. Our son has never been taught anything that could conflict with Christianity there.  

Ebor

Yes, another good reason to go the Tae Kwan Do route
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2007, 03:14:25 AM »

Yes, another good reason to go the Tae Kwan Do route
If you're wanting to go Korean because they are most probably Christian, I would look into Hapkido rather than Tae Kwan Do. First, Hapkido utilizes much of Jujitsu as does it's Japanese counter part Aikido. This means lots of throwing, joint locks, and ground pins rather than punching and kicking of Tae Kwan Do. Hapkido also uses your opponents motion against him, which means minimal effort on your part. Think of it like this; a chair on four legs is well grounded and difficult to push over. Tilt it over on two legs and it's much easier to control. Now, tip it up on one leg and you have complete control of where you want it to go. Let's say an attacker is coming at you. In Karate and Tae Kwan Do, you will generally try and block him and then execute a punch or kick. All things considered, that's a good way of stopping him. Now let's take the Aikido/Hapkido approach. Because he's already moving towards me, I don't need to move him; I simply need to re-direct him out of my way- preferably with minimal intercession on my part.

 The other reason that I personally chose not to learn Tae Kwan Do is because it teaches you to kick way above your head. Nothing wrong with that, except that it's simply not practical. My thought was 'Why expend the energy when I can achieve the same results with half the effort?'. No disrespect to all you TDK practioners!! Wink When I had to quit Aikido because of vertigo, I found that Kenpo uses a lot of the same joint locking techniques. I would much rather grab a man's hand and maneuver it in such a way that he *immediately* knows he will not be getting back up for awhile rather than punch or kick him, risking hurting myself in the process.

 You can youtube both Aikido and Tae Kwan Do and Joint Locking to see the differences...

 Gabriel 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 03:33:17 AM by Jibrail Almuhajir » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2007, 06:59:52 AM »

Jibrail Almuhajir or anyone else,

Quote
First, I've always maintained that everyone, no matter what age or sex, should be involved in martial arts.

This may seem like a strange question, but what would you suggest for someone with lower back problems?
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2007, 12:07:11 PM »

Jibrail Almuhajir or anyone else,

This may seem like a strange question, but what would you suggest for someone with lower back problems?
Asteriktos,

 First, I'd speak with your primary health care provider just as a precaution. Tell him/her what you're considering and then go from there. Second, whatever art you decide on, be sure to let your instructor know of any health problems before you sign up. A good instructor knows how to work with people's limitations. Most importantly, don't expect to be Bruce Lee or Steven Seagal in a short amount of time. The martial arts are, among many other things, an art. It takes years to master them and as we get older (I'm nearing <gasp> 40!), it takes longer to warm up. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it isn't necessary to kick way above your head. With lower back problems, you don't need to increase the risk of further injuring yourself by executing flashy high kicks. Lastly, if you have the money and time, I would suggest supplementing your training with yoga. Hope this helps.  Wink

 Gabriel
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 12:24:46 PM »

Thanks! Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2007, 12:37:13 PM »

Thanks! Smiley
Anytime.  Wink
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2007, 01:24:46 PM »

Jibrail Almuhajir or anyone else,

This may seem like a strange question, but what would you suggest for someone with lower back problems?

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in.  I've got a couple of bad discs in my lower back and partly for that reason I took up Kung Fu about 2 years ago.  I am not doing the hard/striking forms but the internal forms - pa kua, tai chi, Hsing-I and weapons.  I also have significant cervical disc problems so sparring is out of the question, unless quadripalegia sounds better.  That's why I chose this route.  And yes there is some meditation but we've discussed the taoist philosophies on other topics here and I haven't run into any conflicts I couldn't reconcile.  However, for overall flexibility, stamina, strength and conditioning, I can't say enough about kung fu.  People think tai chi is a pretty chinese ballet, but it is a serious martial art and my school teaches it as a martial art.  If you think it's easy, try doing a 10 minute form with a 2 1/2 pound sword in slow motion.  The other thing I'd say about kung fu is its wide variety of forms as compared to tae kwon do, for instance.  Boredom is a reason we've gotten many former tae kwon do students into our school.  There's only so many kick drills you can do.

Brother Aidan, I think I remember you've gone through a much different kung fu program than I'm in, so I think the emphasis on the metaphysical stuff depends on the school - martial arts vs. mind games.   
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2007, 07:03:45 PM »

Jibrail Almuhajir or anyone else,

This may seem like a strange question, but what would you suggest for someone with lower back problems?

Tina G may be right about the kung fu and tai chi forms being healthful. Also alot of these schools, if traditional, have no contact sparring. And the forms are very healthful. Beware of cult-like aspects of some kung fu schools!

Sparring is no good for you once you get past your 20's. While taking shotakan I constantly had to ward off the serious attacks of a psychotic ex-viet nam vet. He had a belly, so a good side kick to his gut was my best defense and he never learned to block it. Still, every now and again he would get through and punch me so hard as to almost knock me on my butt! One other time some of the higher belts were sparring with lower belts and were supposed to be taking it easy. This one kid (a brown belt) round kicked me right in the jaw. It was all I could do restrain myself because I am sure I could have charged him, tackled him and beat the crap out of him. I quit soon thereafter.

TKD can be boring, I have been told, I will agree on that. But for kids, especially a 7 year old it could be great. I also do not like the straight leg kicks of TKW. The bent knee kicks of shotakan are much prettier. In fact shotokan katas rival kung fu forms in beauty.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 07:04:10 PM by BrotherAidan » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2007, 09:43:43 PM »

Asteriktos

Man, I wrote a really good reply in defence of MMA (not that I'm a huge fan), but I accidently logged out before posting.  Oh well, I'm not going to retype that. 

However, concerning your lower back, I would suggest the Russian Kettlebell.  I'm not a doctor, and I'm still rather young and don't suffer from lower-back pain.  However, I have found the ballistic movements of the kettlebell to really strengthen my lower back.  I purchased two 20kg kettlebells from here:
https://www.lifeline-usa.com/products.cfm?cd=361&categoryid=4&productid=129
Yes, the bells are a bit expensive, but well worth the money.  In addition to the bell, you will get 3 e-books each about 100 pages each teaching correct form.  For me, they have helped strengthen my back very much.  Now my deadlift max is 262 pounds (nothing to be too proud of, but hey...) and I think by the end of this year I'll be at 300 (granted, I only use my 2 kettlebells and bodyweight isometrics and calisthenics.  Two or three times a year I deadlift my max).  I'm not sure how fit you are, but I would suggest maybe starting with a 16kg kettlebell and focus on swings, cleans, and snatches.

Shawn

p.s.
Here are a few videos on kettlebells from youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp9rrvbXJps&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI37d_1gZVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGdK5PuikY0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mZ2I39HzWE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO61k3EODY4&mode=related&search=
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« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2007, 02:15:51 PM »

I just came across this text on Tae Kwon Do and Orthodoxy.

http://www.oodegr.com/english/anatolikes/pol_texn/tae_kwon_do1.htm#2
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« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 05:38:29 PM »

Try a Western Martial Art. There are schools in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK, Germany, France, Finland, Russia, etc. Sambo or R.O.S.S. is the Russian martial art. Assyrians and Armenians have their own form of wrestling as well. There is also German/Dutch Ringen, Icelandic Glima, French/Basque Savate Danse Le Rue (there is a school in Texas. There is also the old-school Boxing and Wrestling that the sports originated with. The original forms were banned from sports competitions, but still have some that practice in those forms (I know many Law Enforcement officers who do Bare Knuckle Boxing and Catch Wrestling - I used to, but I have no one to practice with now.)  There is also that Pankration of Mr. Arvinitis - but I'm not sure at all what to think about that.
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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2007, 04:04:03 PM »

I just came across this text on Tae Kwon Do and Orthodoxy.
http://www.oodegr.com/english/anatolikes/pol_texn/tae_kwon_do1.htm#2

I can respect some of the points this author makes, but he doesn't seem too discerning and it also sounds like he's got more issues than just TKD. 
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« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2007, 11:14:28 PM »

I'll second you on that, TinaG.

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2007, 01:37:33 AM »

I'm with you guys!
From that article's perspective, any repetitive activity will make one demon possessed.
Shoot a puck at the dryer 500 times a day; shoot 500 free throws a day; run laps at the track; practice scales with the metronome; do your math tables.

I don't doubt  that some (not all) martial arts schools and practitioners are tapping into demonic power. I don't doubt that the various eastern religions based on monism have a propensity toward the demonic. But that does not mean every martial arts practitioner, every Bhudist, Taoist, Zen, or Hindu is demon possessed.

There may be more of the demonic in certain warped forms of Christianity.
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2007, 07:40:49 AM »

I found the article, I did not read it all, though.  I would not have gone that far as think of something as demonic - my superficial attitude towards sports of any kind as well as other pastimes has prevented me from studying them in depth and I guess, I only imagined oriental martial arts connected to oriental philosophies to some degree, but not really that influenced. I was surprised to find out there was an article viewing the subject in this light and I thought it was relevant to the discussion, but to be honest, I do not care enough about martial arts to study the points of the article in depth. From a limited personal experience, the people I know took classes of martial arts as a way of exercise and to learn self-defence.
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