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Author Topic: The Matrix Reloaded...  (Read 2078 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robert
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« on: May 19, 2003, 08:50:13 AM »

Hi Friends,

I just saw the Matrix Reloaded last night and I am definitely WOWed.

As both Geek Orthodox, and as an all-around computer geek, I especially enjoyed the hacker-esque theme coupled with the intense action.

Something else struck me though, as the underlying Matrix Reloaded film contains something a bit more mysterious and rather dark. The Matrix Reloaded is littered with a dark philosophic mentality that intrigues me. I propose for discussion, to anyone interested, the philosophic models outlined in this movie, and the implications they have on humanity as a whole.

20th century thought, the way paved by Freud and Nietzsche, leads to our contemporary modernist thinking.

The question I pose is this, Is humanity as a whole progressing towards nihilism and annihilation? What is reality? Is it in the minds of man, or does reality exist in a dimension of its own. We live in a godless and selfish society, plagued by greed, lead by those in power and who possess massive wealth. Without God we are in fact nothing, are we not?

Bobby
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2003, 09:41:28 AM »

WARNING! Spoilers below!  Do not read if you don't want the surprises of the movie spoiled!!!

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I just saw the Matrix Reloaded last night and I am definitely WOWed.

Me too, my friend...me too.

Quote
As both Geek Orthodox, and as an all-around computer geek, I especially enjoyed the hacker-esque theme coupled with the intense action.

Did you notice that when Trinity hacked into the power company mainframe, she used Nmap?  The first accurate hack in movie history!

Quote
Something else struck me though, as the underlying Matrix Reloaded film contains something a bit more mysterious and rather dark. The Matrix Reloaded is littered with a dark philosophic mentality that intrigues me. I propose for discussion, to anyone interested, the philosophic models outlined in this movie, and the implications they have on humanity as a whole.

Sounds good, I'll discuss what you've mentioned below and then add in a few of my own!

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20th century thought, the way paved by Freud and Nietzsche, leads to our contemporary modernist thinking.
Quote

I'd say it goes back further than that. Certainly to Rosseau, Bacon, and Descartes.  Cognito ergo sum replacing(as Bp. Kallistos likes to say) Amour ergo sum and Amator ergo sum.  

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The question I pose is this, Is humanity as a whole progressing towards nihilism and annihilation?

Not humanity as a whole, but I would say that is the end conclusion for many secular people in the West.  And also there are many who see the fruits that scholasticism alone fails to achieve when dealing with humanity and have thus opened themselves up what Rudolph Otto would call "The Idea of the Holy."

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What is reality? Is it in the minds of man, or does reality exist in a dimension of its own.

Well, we of course would say that reality is a person. Smiley

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We live in a godless and selfish society, plagued by greed, lead by those in power and who possess massive wealth. Without God we are in fact nothing, are we not?
 

I would say that your last sentence sums up pretty well the situation many find themselves facing.  Being that your own personhood is tied up with being created in the Imago Dei a denial of God is a denial of yourself.  This artificial attempt at seperation can create for that person a "hell on earth" so to speak.

And now for a few thoughts of my own...

I think one of the keys in understanding the film is in Neo's conversation with the Architect of the Matrix, which I will post below.  Also, I think the conversation between Neo and the elder council member down at the engineering level of Zion sets up the "moral argument" of The Matrix - how the humans cannot exist without the machines and we must find a way for a symbiotic relationship(The Oracle also echoes this with her conversation with Neo).  Unfortunately, I don't have the text of those last two conversations to post.  
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2003, 09:43:09 AM »

Here's the conversation between Neo and the Architect:

"Hello Neo."

"Who are you?"

"I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it also the most irrelevant."

"Why am I here?"

"Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I've been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably... here."

"You haven't answered my question."

"Quite right. Interesting... that was quicker than the others."

Now Neo's other selves in the monitors start asking all sort of questions, like "Others? What others?", etc...

"The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version."

Now the others Neo's start cursing and calling him a liar as we zoom into one of the Neo's on the screen who says...

"There are either two possible explanations... either no one told me... or no one knows."

"Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomoly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations."

Now the other Neo's start screaming "You can't control me! I'm gonna smash you..." etc...

The camera again zooms into another Neo in the center screen...

"Choice. The problem is choice."

"The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitablility of its doom as aparent to me now is a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus I redesigned it... based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I've since come to understand the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another... an intuitive program. Initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix... she would undoubtedly be its mother."

"The Oracle."

"Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While thid answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory... systemic anomoly... That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster."

"This is about Zion."

"You are here because Zion is about to the destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existance eradicated."

"Bull****"... the other Neo also say "Bull****."

"Denial is the most predicatable of all human responses. But rest assured... this will be the 6th time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

Now there's Trinity fighting the Agent.

"The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix, 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race."

"You wont let it happen, you can't. You need huamn beings to survive."

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world."

Architect clicks his pen and the screens change to various human beings.

"It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contigent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific... vis-a-vis... love."

"Trinity."

"She entered the Matrix to save your life, at the cost of her own."

"No."

"Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth, where the fundamental flaw is ulimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning... and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the Matrix, to her and to the end of your species. As you eloquently put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason, and emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is going to die and there's nothing you can do to stop it."

Neo takes the door to the left, but stops before leaving as Architect says...

"Hope... it is the quinisential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness."

"If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again."

"We wont."


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Robert
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2003, 10:57:21 AM »

David,

I have the whole script for the Matrix Reloaded on my home PC. I'll post it to the board later.

Bobby
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2003, 11:34:56 AM »

Action:  the car chase was the best.  I got a little sick of the Kung-Fu fighting with the multitude of Smiths.

Underlying:  I didn't like the dark, nihilistic and sexual aspects - disturbed me a little.

A coworker (several of us from work saw it together) thought Trinity should've died and was absolutely pissed that only the front speakers were working in our theater.  I liked the first one better, but definitely want to see the third.  I don't think the movie was good enough to get all of the box office fanfare though.
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Robert
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2003, 11:37:23 AM »

SPOILER ALERT

The best was when Morpheus took his sword, sliced the twins car, blasted a magazine into the underside, and BOOM!!!

BObby
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2003, 11:44:17 AM »

Maybe if we are going to continue talking about this movie and/or movies in general, we should add a spoiler box feature like at http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291428

Whaddaya think?  

SPOILER!!!

BTW, the best scene was with Neo flying so fast to catch Trinity that the buildings were shattering and he was attracting a cloud of debris like a comet.
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Robert
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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2003, 11:47:05 AM »

SPOILER!!! MADE U LOOK
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2003, 05:32:49 PM »

christ is risen!

Hello all, I would just like to point out that I do greatly enjoy the film, particularly the first one, and to aid in the interpretation of it, I would like to call to mind that the series is based upon Gnosticism. For proof of this, have a nice examination of Morpheus' two-pill conversation from the first one, ie "this is a dream world, pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth...". Also, have a looksee at the various names: Neo (new, symbolizing the demigod christ-figure of gnostic philosophy), Trinity (long considered part of the gnostic pantheon, integrated from christianity), I forget the rest of the explanations, but you get the jist.

One last thing: I believe the script was rewritten 14-16 times for the first movie, just something to contemplate in light of the aforementioned.

In Christ,
-Justin
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2003, 04:27:54 PM »

Beside from the special effects the Matrix re-loaded was rather boring. It was a disappointment like Star Trek Nemesis.  I am looking forward to Terminator 3 and Freddy vs. Jason.

The twins are an irritating couple that looks like a white milli vinili Smiley I was especially irritated how the one twin never ran out of bullets.

the best scene was with Neo flying so fast to catch Trinity that the buildings were shattering and he was attracting a cloud of debris like a comet.

Scenes of Neo flying make me anticipate the next installment of Superman all the more (still disappointed when the canceled ‘Superman Lives’ with Nicolas Cage.)
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2003, 12:45:50 PM »

I agree that the underpinnings of the Matrix series are gnostic, with some measure of new-agey Buddhism thrown in.

I actually liked "Star Trek Nemesis", but then again I'm a big fan of the Romulans.  :-)
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2003, 11:57:48 PM »

Quote
Scenes of Neo flying make me anticipate the next installment of Superman all the more (still disappointed when the canceled ‘Superman Lives’ with Nicolas Cage.)

I just can't picture Nicholas Cage as Superman.  Oh well, I enjoy watching Smallville, and hopefully it will be around for the next few years.
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