Poll

Should Pews be allowed in the Orthodox church

Yes, the straight lines help keep order in the church
No, you must stand for the whole liturgy
No, but benches or chairs for the old people are ok
Maybe, it depends on the parish
This is stupid!

Author Topic: Pews in the Orthodox Church  (Read 70405 times)

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Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #90 on: July 18, 2007, 03:14:48 PM »
Quote
I unlocked it until I find out why it was locked to begin with.  It may be re-locked again at a future time, as I do trust the moderators who make these decisions. - Cleveland, GM

There is nothing controversial, or profane about this topic. The previous poll was not clear so I posted a new one. If it was locked intentionally, I received no reason why it was locked.
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2007, 03:17:04 PM »
There is nothing controversial, or profane about this topic. The previous poll was not clear so I posted a new one. If it was locked intentionally, I received no reason why it was locked.

That's fine.  It was probably inadvertent, unless it was locked to prevent a duplicate topic from springing up!
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Offline narrowpathplease

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2007, 03:36:47 PM »
As long as there is somewhere to sit for those who need it (here there is a largely disproportionate percentage of elderly people in churches, and I myself, having asthma and often forgetting to breathe [really], cannot always stand indoors without feeling very faint within minutes) I don't think they're necessary for the main worship space. Especially in Western countries where converts are often initially interested by practices that are novel to them.

Offline Veniamin

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2007, 03:45:06 PM »
I think this may only be relevant on Pascha night.

Of course we do all these things in my parish with pews and there are no problems at all. I sense that straw men are being created here instead of real issues. Our parish STANDS for the whole Liturgy except for the homily and collection. The "problems" you speak of do not exist in our parish.

Cowboy

Okay, so you have pews, but for all practical purposes, don't sit in them.  What's the point of having them, then?
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Offline Cowboy

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2007, 04:11:18 PM »
Okay, so you have pews, but for all practical purposes, don't sit in them.  What's the point of having them, then?

We sit before Hours, Liturgy and other services begin, at the Homily and Collection and for the announcements. We sit for our annual meetings and for bible study classes and for special lecture events (we had 150 participants for a lecture given by Father Hopko this past Lent). Pews help keep things organized, hold prayer and liturgy books and allow elderly and infirm to sit at will without being banished to the outer walls of the Temple. They keep children in place and quiet. Babies sleep on them. We can lean against them
when the strain of standing is difficult to bear. Non-Orthodox visitors, not used to standing for long periods can enjoy respite---especially at weddings and baptisms.

Pews are not evil and do not prevent proper worship in any way.

Cowboy

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2007, 04:17:16 PM »
Pews are not evil and do not prevent proper worship in any way. 

I can agree they're not evil.  As for preventing proper worship - if your community is big on prostrations, then it's tough; if not, then it doesn't matter (no judgment either way).

I definitely use them when the floor is hard on my knees (especially the marble floors at Holy Cross.... sheesh!).  I guess I fall into some sort of moderate camp: I don't like them, but I don't think they're evil (etc.), and I know they can be useful.  I suppose my distaste is more aesthetic than anything else.

Your points, btw, are well put, and definitely very important to be stated in the context of this discussion!
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #96 on: July 18, 2007, 04:17:40 PM »
Why is the poll locked??? Whats up with that?

I unlocked it until I find out why it was locked to begin with.  It may be re-locked again at a future time, as I do trust the moderators who make these decisions. - Cleveland, GM

For the record your new mod did not lock the poll. I am weary of the topic but that's a result of years of internet forums debating the issue; so please enjoy.

I would be more curious with a polling of actual pewless temples among us. I'm 57 years old and have worshiped in or seen dozens of Orthodox parishes of almost every jurisdiction. I have only found in the USA two (2) pewless parishes (OCA & one of two ROCOR). Greece is a different story.
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Offline Cowboy

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2007, 04:24:04 PM »
I can agree they're not evil.  As for preventing proper worship - if your community is big on prostrations, then it's tough; if not, then it doesn't matter (no judgment either way).

Our Community does every prostration called for in the service books. This is done both in the pews (yes, there is plenty of space) ,in the aisles, and in the front and back of the Church. Not really a problem.

Cowboy

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #98 on: July 18, 2007, 04:24:45 PM »
Quote
Pews are not evil and do not prevent proper worship in any way.

According to Father Peter Gillquist, to worship in the Greek literally means to bow down or prostrate. Pews dominating the main worship area makes this absolutely impossible. Pews get in the way of bowing after making the sign of the cross throughout the liturgy, you can forget the great processional and touching the priests garment, you can forget prostrating during forgiveness Sunday and the cannon of st. Andrew. I can give example after example. Pews prohibit the full expression of worship in the Orthodox liturgy. I can understand how pews are compatible in the Catholic and protestant services, but they are a great hindrance in Orthodox worship. Lining the walls with chairs or pews by no means makes the infirm second class citizens. It accommodates all. Just as the infirm and weak should be entitled to sit during the liturgy, the healthy should be able to worship in the fullest expression of the faith.
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline Veniamin

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2007, 04:35:51 PM »
Our Community does every prostration called for in the service books. This is done both in the pews (yes, there is plenty of space) ,in the aisles, and in the front and back of the Church. Not really a problem.

Cowboy

I suspect your parish is more the exception than the rule in terms of having enough space to do prostrations in pews.  In the (admittedly few) parishes I've visted with pews, they were sufficiently close together that even a metania was extremely hard to do. 
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2007, 04:39:57 PM »
I suspect your parish is more the exception than the rule in terms of having enough space to do prostrations in pews.  In the (admittedly few) parishes I've visted with pews, they were sufficiently close together that even a metania was extremely hard to do. 

Interestingly, I see more prostrations in my ACROD parish with pews than I witnessed in pewless parishes.

Is there a CANON on this issue?
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2007, 04:41:45 PM »
Is there a CANON on this issue? 

On pews?  Not that I've read.
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Offline Cowboy

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2007, 04:41:56 PM »
I suspect your parish is more the exception than the rule in terms of having enough space to do prostrations in pews.  In the (admittedly few) parishes I've visted with pews, they were sufficiently close together that even a metania was extremely hard to do. 

I suspect that our Church may be an exception, now that I think about it, because it was BUILT with the knowledge that prostrations would be done. This may be quite different from Orthodox churches that "inherited" their worship space, pews and all, from some other denomination. We have enough space between our pews that slim people can walk behind standing parishioners without disturbing them.

Cowboy

Offline Veniamin

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2007, 04:43:20 PM »
Interestingly, I see more prostrations in my ACROD parish with pews than I witnessed in pewless parishes.

Is there a CANON on this issue?

GiC would probably know; on the other hand, it would probably come out as a canon giving the EP the right to determine what type wood the pews will be made out of or some such...
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2007, 04:48:55 PM »
GiC would probably know; on the other hand, it would probably come out as a canon giving the EP the right to determine what type wood the pews will be made out of or some such...

If there were such a canon, no doubt that would be his opinion.  :D

but he's not here to have all the fun today. Probably bored with us hoi polloi  :o
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2007, 05:34:09 PM »
Our Community does every prostration called for in the service books. This is done both in the pews (yes, there is plenty of space) ,in the aisles, and in the front and back of the Church. Not really a problem.

Cowboy

What - are they spaced at least 4-5 feet apart?  Sounds awkward.  You must have a really big building then.

1) my parish, which has been around for 70 years does not have pews (st. seraphim/Pokrov in Santa Rosa, CA)
2) St. Nicholas in San Anselmo does not (been around about 50 years)
3) Christ the Savior on 12th Ave and Anza in SF does not
4) Holy Trinity on Green & Van Ness in SF does not
5) St. John the Baptist in Berkeley does not
6) St. Michael Archangel in Concord does not
7) Elevation of the Holy Cross in Sacramento does not
8 ) St. Athanasius in Elk Grove does not
9) Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral on Geary in SF does not

The first 7 are OCA, 8 ) is AOA and 9) is ROCOR.  Everyone actually does have some benches/pews/chairs on the sides or back for those to use as needed, but the main worship space of the nave is largely free from pews.  I believe there are indeed pews in the 3 Serbian parishes and all the GOA parishes I've visited in NorCal.  Again, they definitely DO inhibit proper worship.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 05:35:15 PM by Elisha »

Offline James2

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2007, 05:35:47 PM »
Our Western rite parish has had chairs, pews, and now chairs again.  The chairs are lined up like pews, with aisles made for processions.  This works well with our liturgy, and not only during those times when the congregation is seated.  Kneeling is also facilitated when you can place your arms on the pew or chair in front of you.  We rarely do prostrations in the Western rite, but we do genuflect a fair amount, and this is easily done with pews or chairs.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2007, 05:42:51 PM »
What - are they spaced at least 4-5 feet apart?  Sounds awkward.  You must have a really big building then.

1) my parish, which has been around for 70 years does not have pews (st. seraphim/Pokrov in Santa Rosa, CA)
2) St. Nicholas in San Anselmo does not (been around about 50 years)
3) Christ the Savior on 12th Ave and Anza in SF does not
4) Holy Trinity on Green & Van Ness in SF does not
5) St. John the Baptist in Berkeley does not
6) St. Michael Archangel in Concord does not
7) Elevation of the Holy Cross in Sacramento does not
8 ) St. Athanasius in Elk Grove does not
9) Holy Virgin Mary Cathedral on Geary in SF does not

The first 7 are OCA, 8 ) is AOA and 9) is ROCOR.  Everyone actually does have some benches/pews/chairs on the sides or back for those to use as needed, but the main worship space of the nave is largely free from pews.  I believe there are indeed pews in the 3 Serbian parishes and all the GOA parishes I've visited in NorCal.  Again, they definitely DO inhibit proper worship.

Very good. Now there are about 60 parishes within a 50 mile radius of SF....
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2007, 05:50:44 PM »
Is there a CANON on this issue?

No. The only slightly related one that I can think of is Canon 20 of the First Ecumenical Council, which strictly forbids one to kneel during prayer on all Sundays and during the Paschal season. Of course, many churches ignore this, regardless of whether or not they have pews (e.g. Romanians kneel multiple times during the Divine Liturgy).

That said, there are various references in the spiritual and patristic literature that reveal there have been seating options in Orthodox Churches since at least the fourth century. In reality, we know very little about Church architecture before that time and have no real way of determining whether or not there were seats or pews in the earliest houses of Christian worship. All of the earliest church structures we can examine derive their strongest architectural inspiration from the Imperial basilica -- which, of course, did not have pews because it was a place of business, law and court ceremony.
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2007, 05:53:02 PM »
Makes sense. And of course 23,000 in the Church of the Holy Wisdom would seem a mess with pews.  ;)
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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2007, 05:56:17 PM »
Pensateomnia beat me to it, but I did a quick search of the canons of the Ecumenical Councils, Local Councils, Church Fathers, and Psuedo-Apostles, and the only thing I saw was a half dozen canons describing things like when various clergymen could and could not sit.

Offline Elisha

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2007, 06:35:20 PM »
Very good. Now there are about 60 parishes within a 50 mile radius of SF....

Sorry, I haven't visited them all yet, but I can scrape up at least a few more pew-less ones if you'd like. ;)

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2007, 06:43:18 PM »
Why not? It's only gasoline.  ;)
I wonder that so many OCA here have pews. Must be original parishes to come from the <Insert Proscribed Word here>.

But this thread's got me thinking (always dangerous): At next month's parish board meeting I might suggest we not re-install all our pews (which have been there 101 years) when we put new carpet in, and sell the excess to Asteriktos's former (ROCOR) parish down the street which has budgeted them and is now shopping.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2007, 06:50:30 PM »
Why not? It's only gasoline.  ;)
I wonder that so many OCA here have pews. Must be original parishes to come from the <Insert Proscribed Word here>.

But this thread's got me thinking (always dangerous): At next month's parish board meeting I might suggest we not re-install all our pews (which have been there 101 years) when we put new carpet in, and sell the excess to Asteriktos's former (ROCOR) parish down the street which has budgeted them and is now shopping.

When talking to a priest at HVC (ROCOR) in SF, I mentioned that I had the feeling that on the West Coast, things seemed more conservative overall across all the jurisdictions.  He said definitely across all jurisdictions, but modified my statement to say "traditional" not "conservative".  As much as you guys out east want to make fun of us and call us the "left coast", we do things "right" (i.e. we're more Orthodox than thou  :P).

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2007, 06:54:26 PM »
Point not contested.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 06:54:43 PM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline Tamara

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2007, 08:12:24 PM »
Ah, but here's the real test of his Orthodoxy: What are his views on pews?

 :D  :D  :D

His church, along with the pews, were burned down by arsonists who hated Arabs (ATF figured it was 9/11 aftershock due to those who blamed all Arabs for the catastrophe)...and yet the man never showed an ounce of hate or judgement against anyone. In fact, when the local new stations came to tell this story, he used the fire as an opportunity to share Orthodoxy with the greater bay area. I think he has a different perspective about life entirely...

« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 08:22:47 PM by Tamara »

Offline Tamara

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2007, 08:21:05 PM »
Remember, participation in the Liturgy isn't always verbal/cognitive (infants can/are participating).

I believe this statement with all my heart.
One of the sweetest sounds in the whole world is to hear a little one sing,"Ahwaywooya!'"
The angels must rejoice when they hear their soft little voices join in!

« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 08:21:39 PM by Tamara »

Offline Starlight

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2007, 09:44:21 PM »
With all the respect to points of view of others persons, as well as to the right to have a different opinion, personally, I am absolutely for pews. They are an appropriate and needed part of a church.

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2007, 09:56:29 PM »
Quote
When talking to a priest at HVC (ROCOR) in SF, I mentioned that I had the feeling that on the West Coast, things seemed more conservative overall across all the jurisdictions.  He said definitely across all jurisdictions, but modified my statement to say "traditional" not "conservative".  As much as you guys out east want to make fun of us and call us the "left coast", we do things "right" (i.e. we're more Orthodox than thou  Tongue)

The 2 Orthodox churces in Southwest Missouri are without pews. Our philosophy is that pews make good kindling.  ;D
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline BrotherAidan

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #119 on: July 18, 2007, 11:27:18 PM »
Well - it isn't nonsense. Assuming Byzantine rite for the moment: one has to move around to light candles, venerate icons, touch the hem of the priest's garment during the Great Entrance, receive Holy Communion, the Antidoron, etc. Pews, however, are literally a pain in the posterior - they hurt the back as well, and the knees (for us long legged folk), and can rack up a good score of dings for those reaching for children (never mind the children, clumsy as they are, banging their heads and crying out in pain.) Orthodox in the past didn't have these problems - as they didn't have pews. I'm Western rite, and I find pews a distraction and bother - physically, socially, and liturgically. But, since we've got folk insisting we sit - I want to put in my vote for La-z-boy recliners. Those would be real comfortable in church, just like watching a movie...

Some of the seeker friendly contemporary worship churches probably have lazy boys, along with their on-site Starbucks style coffee shops. I mean who can really worship without kicking back with their cup of joe?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:28:00 PM by BrotherAidan »

Offline Tamara

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #120 on: July 18, 2007, 11:55:21 PM »
Very good. Now there are about 60 parishes within a 50 mile radius of SF....

Antiochian

St. Nicholas in SF  has pews
St. John in Orinda has pews
Church of the Redeemer in Los Altos hills has pews
Sts. Peter and Paul in Ben Lomond is half and half (pews in the front and empty space in the back)
St. Stephen in Campbell my parish does not (we have chairs on the sides and five rows of them in the back)

Greek

All the ones in the South bay have them Holy Cross in Belmont, St. Nick's in San Jose, St. Basil's in Almaden

OCA

St. Nicholas in Saratoga no pews

ROCOR

St. Herman of Alaska no pews


You know chairs are a good option because they can be moved around into any configuration depending on the feast day or if your parish is having a choir concert or nativity play in the sanctuary. And as the needs of a parish change chairs can be added or removed. Just another idea.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 12:01:37 AM by Tamara »

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #121 on: July 19, 2007, 12:13:17 AM »
Quote
With all the respect to points of view of others persons, as well as to the right to have a different opinion, personally, I am absolutely for pews. They are an appropriate and needed part of a church.

Just not in the main worship space.  ;)
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #122 on: July 19, 2007, 12:23:00 AM »
These are among the weirdest, most absurd and least true generalizations I have ever heard regarding pews. Our Parish has always had pews (20+ years) and on most Sundays there is not any standing room left. Everyone but a few very elderly or infirm parishioners STAND for the whole liturgy except the Homily. In fact anyone who sits is assumed to be having a physical problem and is queried at coffee hour.

Our Parish is dynamic and constantly growing. We welcome all newcomers with open arms. We love children. We dress modestly. We could care less about facial hair present or lacking. We give alms. We serve the poor and needy. We love Christ.

Finally it has been my experience in every church I have ever visited that does not have pews (including two in monastic settings) that EVERY SINGLE SEAT AVAILABLE ALONG THE WALLS IS SPOKEN FOR. Only those who come late and realize there are no more seats stand in the open spaces.

I further fail to see how venerating icons and lighting candles DURING liturgy, instead of participating in the liturgy is a reason to have a pewless church.

Our communion and blessing lines are very orderly starting on alternating Sundays with either the last or first rows. We don't have children running around playing with cars, trucks and dolls as I have constantly seen in pewless churches. The pews have holders for prayer books, liturgy books and candles. You can lean against them when you tire. They are spaced wide enough apart so that prostrations could be made inside the pews. There is also ample space outside the pews for prostrations also.

Please, if you don't like pews for personal reasons just say so. But don't characterize every church with pews as second class Orthodox citizens!

Cowboy
The same can be said for the opposite.  Please don't characterize every church without pews as second class Orthodox citizens, as you seem to be doing (unintentionally, I hope).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 12:25:40 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #123 on: July 19, 2007, 12:33:21 AM »
I am with Tamara on the chairs
Twenty-some years ago, when I was a Presbyterian, I was on a presbyterian church history tour to Scotland. On the way back down the English coast to London we stopped in a town - might have been Lincoln or Durham. There was a cool center area of shops in a sort of walled in courtyard type space, although quite big (I made a brass rubbing at one of the shops). Anyway, the Anglican church at the corner had had all the pews removed and the congregation did just what Tamara said - they re-configured them for whatever was going on. When I was inside most of the interior space was not only pewless, but not many chairs were up. I remember being so impressed by the beauty of the interior space without the pews and also impressed by the functionality of the chairs. From talking to a girl at the church I learned it was open seven days a week and had numerous ministries going on. I thought of that church immediately when I was discovering Orthodoxy.

Of course, here in western PA, all of the Orthodox churches I have been able to visit for various occassions have pews. I have only been to one pewless Orthodox church in NYC (and one pewless Anglican church). I prefer pewless.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 12:35:44 AM by BrotherAidan »

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #124 on: July 19, 2007, 01:38:29 AM »
You know chairs are a good option because they can be moved around into any configuration...
How 'bout a circular configuraton so the Priest can play 'duck, duck, goose' with us? Oh wait. My capuccino might spill.  :D Just a little good natured teasing, Tamara.  ;) I've been up since 6:30 with a compressor, hopper gun, and a case of energy drinks tyring to get a stucco look in my bathroom. I might be just a little loopy right about now.
"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

Offline Tamara

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #125 on: July 19, 2007, 02:16:04 AM »
Gabriel,

I really enjoy your southern charm and sense of humor....your loopiness is never offensive.  :D

Sabah al khair, Tumrah

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #126 on: July 19, 2007, 02:34:33 AM »
How 'bout a circular configuraton so the Priest can play 'duck, duck, goose' with us? Oh wait. My capuccino might spill.  :D Just a little good natured teasing, Tamara.  ;) I've been up since 6:30 with a compressor, hopper gun, and a case of energy drinks tyring to get a stucco look in my bathroom. I might be just a little loopy right about now.
Just watch how many of them energy drinks you consume.  I ended up going to the emergency room six months ago with heart palpitations from overdosing on those drinks.  Not fun. :P
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #127 on: July 19, 2007, 03:11:32 AM »
Sabah al khair, Tumrah
Sabah an-nur, sadiqati. Fi aman Allah.  :)

Just watch how many of them energy drinks you consume.  I ended up going to the emergency room six months ago with heart palpitations from overdosing on those drinks.  Not fun. :P
Yea, I read somewhere that the British singer Robbie Williams checked himself into rehab not long ago because he was becomming addicted to Red Bull. I think he was drinking around 20-26 cans a day. You read that right.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 03:14:03 AM by Jibrail Almuhajir »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #128 on: July 19, 2007, 03:20:05 AM »
Sabah an-nur, sadiqati. Fi aman Allah.  :)
Yea, I read somewhere that the British singer Robbie Williams checked himself into rehab not long ago because he was becomming addicted to Red Bull. I think he was drinking around 20-26 cans a day. You read that right.
D**N!!!  I went to the ER after drinking only three 20-oz cans of Sobe No Fear in 16 hours--the last time I'll ever drink more than one of those in a week!
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 03:29:07 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #129 on: July 19, 2007, 03:22:16 AM »
Quote
...Red Bull. I think he was drinking around 20-26 cans a day.

Darn! And I thought I used to be really bad drinking 15-18 cans of Mt. Dew a day.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #130 on: July 19, 2007, 03:35:48 AM »
Darn! And I thought I used to be really bad drinking 15-18 cans of Mt. Dew a day.
Moses smell the roses! That's a lotta Dew, boy!
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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #131 on: July 19, 2007, 03:38:59 AM »
Thankfully I don't drink it anymore. :) As to Red Bull... I don't really get it's appeal? I tried it once plain, and once in a mixed drink, and couldn't stand either. I must be missing something?

Offline narrowpathplease

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #132 on: July 19, 2007, 04:01:31 AM »
Just watch how many of them energy drinks you consume.  I ended up going to the emergency room six months ago with heart palpitations from overdosing on those drinks.  Not fun. :P

A lot of them contain aspartame. The FDA, which officially labels it 'safe', admits that one in every million people will actually die of aspartame poisoning. That's what 'safe' means to them. Many, many more are likely to suffer diagnosed mental, neurological and physical conditions due to that stuff without the cause ever being discovered, and everyone will probably be affected to some extent often while coming to think their symptoms are just inevitable aspects of being human, like headaches or mild depressive symptoms.

Documentary about it:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTw0l_X-Vs

« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 04:14:34 AM by narrowpathplease »

Offline Cowboy

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #133 on: July 19, 2007, 11:24:33 AM »
The same can be said for the opposite.  Please don't characterize every church without pews as second class Orthodox citizens, as you seem to be doing (unintentionally, I hope).

Please forgive me if I have given that impression. Those parishes without pews have every right to be so, just as do those with pews. I was reacting to views expressed that seemed to imply that one way was superior to the other. Co-existence is just fine with me. When I know I will be attending services at a church with no pews, I make it a priority to arrive one half hour earlier to make sure I get a seat. Those who want to stand continuously or sit on the floor have my humble blessing.

Cowboy

Offline Tamara

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Re: Pews in the Orthodox Church
« Reply #134 on: July 19, 2007, 11:36:31 AM »
Please forgive me if I have given that impression. Those parishes without pews have every right to be so, just as do those with pews. I was reacting to views expressed that seemed to imply that one way was superior to the other. Co-existence is just fine with me. When I know I will be attending services at a church with no pews, I make it a priority to arrive one half hour earlier to make sure I get a seat. Those who want to stand continuously or sit on the floor have my humble blessing.

Cowboy

While I don't mind the standing during the service, I hate sitting on the floor in a dress or skirt  :-[. It feels so unladylike because I must carefully sit down and arrange my skirt or dress. Then I must do the same thing again when I stand up. For this reason alone I wish I could wear pants to church. Anyway, I try to quickly find a seat during the sermon to avoid this problem.