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Author Topic: Interview with Frederica Matthews Greene  (Read 34032 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2007, 02:04:07 PM »

Regarding Dr. Cavarnos, I've read some of his stuff.  Quite representative of a traditionalist brand of Orthodoxy, which in itself makes him not a very good read for inquirers. 

So inquirers only want a watered down, non-traditional Orthodoxy?  I think it is important that inquirers are given the full range of information from various persons, both more traditional and less.  He is a much better author, though, than FM-G.

As far as Fr. Seraphim goes, what specifically do people find controversial about him?  Moderators, if this needs to go into another thread, I'll trust your judgment.
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« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2007, 02:24:56 PM »

Fr. Seraphim Rose focused too much on the theologumena of the toll houses. His literal and questionable interpretation of them would confuse the average non-Orthodox person who would have no reference point to understand. Too many people have elevated what he taught to the level of sacred dogma. Look, I visited Platina in the early 80s while both Fr. Seraphim and Fr. Herman were both there. Fr. Herman spouted many bizarro ideas and many strange people visited their skete. There was an unhealthy, cultic mind-set present at the place. Fr. Herman had a real problem with the authority of the bishops. He basically encouraged us to rebel against our bishops. Fr. Seraphim never reputed what Fr. Herman had to say. Fr. Seraphim's books are not a good place to start for most newbies.

As I said before, FMG is a good translator for those who know nothing about Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2007, 02:56:53 PM »

So inquirers only want a watered down, non-traditional Orthodoxy?  I think it is important that inquirers are given the full range of information from various persons, both more traditional and less.  He is a much better author, though, than FM-G.

As far as Fr. Seraphim goes, what specifically do people find controversial about him?  Moderators, if this needs to go into another thread, I'll trust your judgment.
Do you mean to imply that only traditionalist Orthodoxy is truly traditional (i.e., faithful to Tradition)?  Contrary to how many traditionalists paint us mainstream Orthodox as modernists unfaithful to Tradition, we consider faithfulness to Tradition very important--we just understand Tradition differently, as more the Holy Spirit's guiding presence within the Church than just a body of faith and praxis to be preserved.  To make such a hard distinction between traditional and "watered down, non-traditional" Orthodoxy, as you seem to do, is to some extent an artificial dichotomy, IMO.
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« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2007, 03:08:05 PM »

Do you mean to imply that only traditionalist Orthodoxy is truly traditional (i.e., faithful to Tradition)?  Contrary to how many traditionalists paint us mainstream Orthodox as modernists unfaithful to Tradition, we consider faithfulness to Tradition very important--we just understand Tradition differently, as more the Holy Spirit's guiding presence within the Church than just a body of faith and praxis to be preserved.  To make such a hard distinction between traditional and "watered down, non-traditional" Orthodoxy, as you seem to do, is to some extent an artificial dichotomy, IMO. 

Actually, I think he's just saying he doesn't think that FM-G is a good theologian.  That she produces baby formula, when (in the minds of some) the inquirers should be given steak.
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« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2007, 03:40:44 PM »

Fr. Seraphim Rose focused too much on the theologumena of the toll houses.

I wish you folks would come up with a different name. Every time I see that, I can't help but think of chocolate chip cookies.

But then, if THAT'S the EO purgatory, I'm 'doxing!  Wink
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« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2007, 03:54:46 PM »


Reading between the lines a little, I think Hahn had a very clear idea of what he was looking for in Orthodoxy: he was hoping to find a "happy medium" between Protestantism and Catholicism (you might say, another Episcopal Church but better). Is it any wonder that Orthodoxy wasn't what he was looking for?

You're right---going EO from Protestantism/Evangelicalism is not simply going North (where Catholicism is) but going Northeast.

I could not make the journey to Orthodoxy myself because in my journey out of the Southwest I felt called to end up due North, and it seemed to me that Catholicism staked out that position more fully than Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #51 on: August 28, 2007, 03:54:51 PM »

Do you mean to imply that only traditionalist Orthodoxy is truly traditional (i.e., faithful to Tradition)?  Contrary to how many traditionalists paint us mainstream Orthodox as modernists unfaithful to Tradition, we consider faithfulness to Tradition very important--we just understand Tradition differently, as more the Holy Spirit's guiding presence within the Church than just a body of faith and praxis to be preserved.  To make such a hard distinction between traditional and "watered down, non-traditional" Orthodoxy, as you seem to do, is to some extent an artificial dichotomy, IMO.

And now you are (unintentionally, I am sure) misrepresenting the traditionalist position. It's not all about rules and regulations; in fact, it is precisely because we believe that the Holy Spirit has a guiding presence in the Church over the centuries that we cannot change what you might think are so-called small-t traditions.
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« Reply #52 on: August 28, 2007, 03:56:19 PM »

When I was Catholic, I found FMG annoying and overly simplistic. Reading her books turned me off from her version of Orthodoxy and caused some people I know to never consider Orthodoxy. Just my two cents from a former Catholic perspective.
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« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2007, 04:26:31 PM »

I wish you folks would come up with a different name. Every time I see that, I can't help but think of chocolate chip cookies.

But then, if THAT'S the EO purgatory, I'm 'doxing!  Wink

Hee, hee....I wish it was all about cookies too... Wink
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« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2007, 04:32:33 PM »

Actually, I think he's just saying he doesn't think that FM-G is a good theologian.  That she produces baby formula, when (in the minds of some) the inquirers should be given steak.

Yeah...let's give them steak so they choke on it and get sick.... Roll Eyes
Constantine Cavarnos is too academic for the average inquirer. Most folks know next to nothing about Orthodoxy when they step through the doors of our parishes. We need a variety of literature to meet the needs of everyone....not just the needs of the intellectuals and professors who come for a visit.
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« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2007, 04:39:18 PM »

Yeah...let's give them steak so they choke on it and get sick.... Roll Eyes
Constantine Cavarnos is too academic for the average inquirer. Most folks know next to nothing about Orthodoxy when they step through the doors of our parishes. We need a variety of literature to meet the needs of everyone....not just the needs of the intellectuals and professors who come for a visit.

I tend to agree with you but I found Clark Carlton much more fair towards Catholics than FMG. As a Catholic, I really disagreed with her and didn't find her helpful, and I was not alone. Others might have a different take on her though. I think it's important to create inquierer literature that is not polemical; polemics has its place but shouldn't be ubiquitous.
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« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2007, 04:47:14 PM »

"much more fair"....is that proper grammar ?

Tsk tsk...now where is Sister Mary Catherine who will gently pinch a ear lobe to correct you...

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« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2007, 04:48:09 PM »

I tend to agree with you but I found Clark Carlton much more fair towards Catholics than FMG. As a Catholic, I really disagreed with her and didn't find her helpful, and I was not alone. Others might have a different take on her though. I think it's important to create inquierer literature that is not polemical; polemics has its place but shouldn't be ubiquitous.

Well, she is not for everyone but many people in my parish found her books very helpful in their journey toward the faith.
She is not a shallow person. When you hear her speak you can sense the prayer behind her presentation. I think she keeps it at a very basic level so everyone will understand and wish to learn more.
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« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2007, 05:36:52 PM »

I tend to agree with you but I found Clark Carlton much more fair towards Catholics than FMG. As a Catholic, I really disagreed with her and didn't find her helpful, and I was not alone.

I got that vibe too from what little I've read of her. I don't think she's very useful for most knowledgable Catholics, who are well trained at sniffing out digs at Catholicism.

I think Bishop Ware, on the other hand, is a wonderful source for inquirers.
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« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2007, 06:20:00 PM »

Yeah...let's give them steak so they choke on it and get sick.... Roll Eyes
Constantine Cavarnos is too academic for the average inquirer. Most folks know next to nothing about Orthodoxy when they step through the doors of our parishes. We need a variety of literature to meet the needs of everyone....not just the needs of the intellectuals and professors who come for a visit.

Oh, you'll get no disagreement from me about it - I think people need to read Metropolitan KALLISTOS or Fr Coniaris before hopping (voluntarily) into heavier stuff.  Inquirers don't need "Orthodoxy lite", but they do need a good "Orthodoxy 101".

Of course, I also think people need to wait a period of time before going to seminary (which some others disagree with, to disastrous results).
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« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2007, 07:01:28 PM »

And now you are (unintentionally, I am sure) misrepresenting the traditionalist position. It's not all about rules and regulations; in fact, it is precisely because we believe that the Holy Spirit has a guiding presence in the Church over the centuries that we cannot change what you might think are so-called small-t traditions.

Please note that I said many traditionalists.
Contrary to how many traditionalists paint us mainstream Orthodox as modernists unfaithful to Tradition, ...
I was careful to use such specific wording so as to avoid any accusation that I was misrepresenting the general traditionalist position.  I recognize that there is actually a broad spectrum of what passes as traditionalism, so I wanted to address the specific thread of traditionalism that I saw Scamandrius probably representing.  If I misrepresented anything or anyone, it was the specific position of the specific poster Scamandrius.  If I did this, then I apologize to Scamandrius for misunderstanding and misjudging his pov.
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« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2007, 08:11:57 PM »

Well, she is not for everyone but many people in my parish found her books very helpful in their journey toward the faith.
She is not a shallow person. When you hear her speak you can sense the prayer behind her presentation. I think she keeps it at a very basic level so everyone will understand and wish to learn more.

While her "over-simplifying" may irk some, I guess it doesn't irk me as much.  It is the misinformation like the relationship with OOs that does (as others have said).  Since her husband is a priest, she doesn't have any excuse and shouldn't let this happen.  Cleaning up some of these small things I think could go a long way (as in satisfy or just not piss off everyone).

All of this apologizing for her reminds me of one of my favorite "This Modern World" comics, where everyone who is accused of something just retorts, "but...but...at least I'm not as bad as Saddam Hussein!".
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« Reply #62 on: August 28, 2007, 08:24:08 PM »

Please note that I said many traditionalists.I was careful to use such specific wording so as to avoid any accusation that I was misrepresenting the general traditionalist position.  I recognize that there is actually a broad spectrum of what passes as traditionalism, so I wanted to address the specific thread of traditionalism that I saw Scamandrius probably representing.  If I misrepresented anything or anyone, it was the specific position of the specific poster Scamandrius.  If I did this, then I apologize to Scamandrius for misunderstanding and misjudging his pov.

Thanks for clarifying that. I could be wrong, but I am not sure that many or even any traditionalist would agree with your assessment; perhaps it could be said that among many advocating a traditionalist position, what emerges is an obsession with rules and regulations in practice or something of that nature.

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« Reply #63 on: August 28, 2007, 09:11:44 PM »

When I was Catholic, I found FMG annoying and overly simplistic. Reading her books turned me off from her version of Orthodoxy and caused some people I know to never consider Orthodoxy. Just my two cents from a former Catholic perspective.

She is not writing to Catholicsl her audience is protestants - burned out evangelicals, post-churched mainliners, and semi-agnostic secularists with a cultural veneer of religion.

You picked up the wrong writer at that point in your journey
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« Reply #64 on: August 28, 2007, 09:18:28 PM »

She is not writing to Catholicsl her audience is protestants - burned out evangelicals, post-churched mainliners, and semi-agnostic secularists with a cultural veneer of religion.

You picked up the wrong writer at that point in your journey

Her comments about Catholics were inaccurate and made her look like the typical anti-Catholic. It doesn't matter so much who her audience is, her comments were inaccurate and she should know that many different kinds of people would pick up her book. In fact, that her audience is primarily Protestant furthers my point I think because my complaint is she was helping to push further the anti-Catholic spirit among many Protestants that come over to Orthodoxy; a spirit which in turn turns many Roman Catholics off from Orthodoxy. I am not pro-Pope by any stretch but there is a difference between principled disagreement and Protestantesque stereotypes of Catholicism, and an Orthodox person directly catering to this sentiment to get them to go Orthodox.

It had nothing to do with me picking it up at the wrong time--I still find what she wrote just as inaccurate as it was back then. I remember her comments about her friend that attended the Melkite parish in Facing East. That was one thing that bugged me specifically.
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« Reply #65 on: August 28, 2007, 10:54:18 PM »

Thanks for clarifying that. I could be wrong, but I am not sure that many or even any traditionalist would agree with your assessment; perhaps it could be said that among many advocating a traditionalist position, what emerges is an obsession with rules and regulations in practice or something of that nature.
Just like many of us "modernists" so-called bristle when we are called modernist and anti-traditional, because we just don't see ourselves that way.  Granted, some of us really do advocate modernism and change for the mere sake of change--we know of one regular here who does this unabashedly--but most of us pseudo-modernists have just as deep and profound a love for Tradition as you.
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« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2007, 09:58:11 AM »

Just like many of us "modernists" so-called bristle when we are called modernist and anti-traditional, because we just don't see ourselves that way.  Granted, some of us really do advocate modernism and change for the mere sake of change--we know of one regular here who does this unabashedly--but most of us pseudo-modernists have just as deep and profound a love for Tradition as you.

Right, which is why in discussions with my coreligionists I often issue the call to treat people fairly and not as a category.  There are certain times when even I will engage in polemics and perhaps have painted a broad stroke but I generally try to limit such instances as I know how it feels to have it applied to me.
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« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2007, 10:06:10 AM »

Quote
It is the misinformation like the relationship with OOs that does (as others have said).  Since her husband is a priest, she doesn't have any excuse and shouldn't let this happen

Or maybe she is following the same information that her husband has.  Isn't he in a jurisdiction that communes OO laity? 
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« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2007, 11:36:20 AM »

Or maybe she is following the same information that her husband has.  Isn't he in a jurisdiction that communes OO laity? 

Possibly.  I'm not sure of current practice in the AOA in the US. 
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« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2007, 12:00:08 PM »

Right, which is why in discussions with my coreligionists I often issue the call to treat people fairly and not as a category.  There are certain times when even I will engage in polemics and perhaps have painted a broad stroke but I generally try to limit such instances as I know how it feels to have it applied to me.

I agree with Peter. The first time I was called a 'modernist' was when I visited Platina.  It did not generate any warm, fuzzy feelings in my heart. It is divisive to use these types of descriptions.

Anyway, in the Antiochian Archdiocese we have mixture of folks (some are more traditional than others). I like the variety and the balance it provides.
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« Reply #70 on: August 29, 2007, 12:13:09 PM »

I agree with Peter. The first time I was called a 'modernist' was when I visited Platina.  It did not generate any warm, fuzzy feelings in my heart. It is divisive to use these types of descriptions.

I object to labeling people inaccurately, but if someone is a modernist, I would not hesitate to label them as such, because my concerns would not be with warm fuzzy feelings or being divisive; true modernism is a heresy and has destructive spiritual consequences, and anyone holding such an opinion should be corrected, and if they persist, rebuked. Sometimes, being divisive is a virtue, although our modern American ears do not wish to hear this.

Applying the label indiscriminately, however, cheapens the gravity of the situation and when applied to people who do not consider themselves to be what the label is and do not confess it, can be a rude, hurtful, and counter-productive experience for all, however.

Quote
Anyway, in the Antiochian Archdiocese we have mixture of folks (some are more traditional than others). I like the variety and the balance it provides.

I find the cleavage in modern American jurisdictions over "traditional" vs "less traditional" concerning as it could lead to further schisms down the road.
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« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2007, 01:27:49 PM »

I object to labeling people inaccurately, but if someone is a modernist, I would not hesitate to label them as such, because my concerns would not be with warm fuzzy feelings or being divisive; true modernism is a heresy and has destructive spiritual consequences, and anyone holding such an opinion should be corrected, and if they persist, rebuked. Sometimes, being divisive is a virtue, although our modern American ears do not wish to hear this.

Applying the label indiscriminately, however, cheapens the gravity of the situation and when applied to people who do not consider themselves to be what the label is and do not confess it, can be a rude, hurtful, and counter-productive experience for all, however.

I find the cleavage in modern American jurisdictions over "traditional" vs "less traditional" concerning as it could lead to further schisms down the road.

I use a different standard of measurement when meeting Orthodox clergy and laity. If someone is hospitable, kind-hearted, long-suffering, humble and devout then I really don't care about the superficials. My father-confessor (he is from Syria) looks like a 'modernist' (no beard, haircut, western suit) but he is a strict faster, he visits the sick, his hospitality is over the top, his humility is deep. Another priest (convert) who I love dearly has a long beard, wears the traditional frocks of a married Greek priest including the hat, and he has the same qualities as the above mentioned priest.  Even though they each come from different cultures and dress differently they were able to move beyond  the superficials because they recognized Christ in one another. I follow their example.
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« Reply #72 on: August 29, 2007, 01:43:43 PM »

I use a different standard of measurement when meeting Orthodox clergy and laity. If someone is hospitable, kind-hearted, long-suffering, humble and devout then I really don't care about the superficials. My father-confessor (he is from Syria) looks like a 'modernist' (no beard, haircut, western suit) but he is a strict faster, he visits the sick, his hospitality is over the top, his humility is deep. Another priest (convert) who I love dearly has a long beard, wears the traditional frocks of a married Greek priest including the hat, and he has the same qualities as the above mentioned priest.  Even though they each come from different cultures and dress differently they were able to move beyond  the superficials because they recognized Christ in one another. I follow their example.

I was not limiting my observations to clothing styles, nor did I express a "standard of measurement"--I do not apply some litmus test to people I meet, nor do I react negatively to those who disagree with me.  The majority of my friends are New Calendarist clergy.  I think it needs to be said though that  I know plenty of Roman Catholic clergy who fast, are kind-hearted, long-suffering, humble, and devout.  But that doesn't change the fact that they are not Orthodox.  Things like modernism may seem "superficial" but over time, they lead to cleavages.  Adherence to traditions are extremely important in maintaining a group cohesiveness.  While I was not limiting myself to externals, as modernist theological and ethical constructs are more concerning to me, I do believe that externals are part of the "total package deal" and by not allowing externals to become a part of personal preference, we free ourselves from focusing on them and allow ourselves to focus on the Church's mission.
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« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2007, 02:30:59 PM »

Sorry, Anastasios, but every time you write "cleavage", I think of well-endowed woman wearing a low cut top or dress.   Cheesy
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« Reply #74 on: August 29, 2007, 02:34:01 PM »

Sorry, Anastasios, but every time you write "cleavage", I think of well-endowed woman wearing a low cut top or dress.   Cheesy

I apologize for being a source of temptation for you  Wink
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« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2007, 04:59:41 PM »

The word cleavage is a detour of thought for most men...

james
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« Reply #76 on: August 29, 2007, 05:52:13 PM »

The word cleavage is a detour of thought for most men...
james


Based on that observation it must be awfully difficult for most of you men to get through a very basic conversation without detours.  Guess there are a lot of words that are verboten.  I try this with my hyper 5 yo.  I look him straight in the eyes and if his mind or eyes wander, I tap my forehead and keep telling him to pay attention and look at me.
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« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2007, 07:03:39 PM »

Based on that observation it must be awfully difficult for most of you men to get through a very basic conversation without detours.  Guess there are a lot of words that are verboten.  I try this with my hyper 5 yo.  I look him straight in the eyes and if his mind or eyes wander, I tap my forehead and keep telling him to pay attention and look at me.

My boys are older so mentioning certain food items seems to cut through the distraction.
Even if I quietly say,"chocolate chip cookies,"
everyone (including my husband) comes running and I then have their full attention.  Cheesy
I have to admit men, whether young or old, are not complicated creatures.
Thank heavens!
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« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »

Did someone say chocolate chip cookies?
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« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2007, 07:15:37 PM »

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Cookies.
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« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2007, 07:54:11 PM »

Mmmm....Cookies....Hey, wait, I had something to say:

Her comments about Catholics were inaccurate and made her look like the typical anti-Catholic. It doesn't matter so much who her audience is, her comments were inaccurate and she should know that many different kinds of people would pick up her book. In fact, that her audience is primarily Protestant furthers my point I think because my complaint is she was helping to push further the anti-Catholic spirit among many Protestants that come over to Orthodoxy; a spirit which in turn turns many Roman Catholics off from Orthodoxy. I am not pro-Pope by any stretch but there is a difference between principled disagreement and Protestantesque stereotypes of Catholicism, and an Orthodox person directly catering to this sentiment to get them to go Orthodox.

It had nothing to do with me picking it up at the wrong time--I still find what she wrote just as inaccurate as it was back then. I remember her comments about her friend that attended the Melkite parish in Facing East. That was one thing that bugged me specifically.

I think I know what you mean by this anti-Catholic spirit among Protestant converts.  I've seen plenty of it on the Internet.  After a while, you start to think this is the Orthodox way.  It was easy for me to fall into it because of my fundamentalist upbringing.  Dear Dad is very anti-Catholic.  Of course, I've also read accounts of anti-Catholicism among cradle Orthodox and monastics.  But when I talk to my priest, he sees the Schism as a great tragedy, and ecumenism as our way of going after our (what we consider to be) erring brother and trying to bring him back.  I start to feel that there's nothing wrong with the EP trying to build bridges with Pope Benedict.  I read articles about convertitis, and start looking at the things Catholics and the Orhodox have in common.  Heck, I've even been watching a lot of EWTN lately.  Cheesy
 
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« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2007, 10:08:11 PM »

Did someone say chocolate chip cookies?

Yeah, the EO kind!
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Peter J
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« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2007, 10:26:46 PM »

I object to labeling people inaccurately, but if someone is a modernist, I would not hesitate to label them as such, because my concerns would not be with warm fuzzy feelings or being divisive; true modernism is a heresy and has destructive spiritual consequences, and anyone holding such an opinion should be corrected, and if they persist, rebuked. Sometimes, being divisive is a virtue, although our modern American ears do not wish to hear this.

Applying the label indiscriminately, however, cheapens the gravity of the situation and when applied to people who do not consider themselves to be what the label is and do not confess it, can be a rude, hurtful, and counter-productive experience for all, however.

Well said. And if I may chime in, I think that the label "divisive" can be be mis-applied just as easily as the label "modernist" can.

God bless,
Peter.
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« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2007, 10:28:58 PM »

I remember her comments about her friend that attended the Melkite parish in Facing East. That was one thing that bugged me specifically.

Well now you've got me curious.
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« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2007, 11:39:23 PM »

Yeah, the EO kind!

At least I am not the only one to think of pastry when toll houses are discussed.   Cheesy
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« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2007, 01:45:04 AM »

Yeah, the EO kind!

Lubeltri,

I had such severe nightmares about toll house devils that I can no longer bake cookies using the Nestle Toll House brand Shocked
I have since switched brands to Guittard (a local Bay Area Co.) that makes the finest chocolate in the world. Additionally, the owner of Guittard is on the forefront to fight the evil demons who are trying to change the definition of chocolate in American food products. Angry Nestle, Hershey, and all the other major chocolate makers have sold their soul to devil and will be making us endure the toll house of phoney chocolate if we let them win this battle.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 01:48:53 AM by Tamara » Logged
PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2007, 01:51:13 AM »

Lubeltri,

I had such severe nightmares about toll house devils that I can no longer bake cookies using the Nestle Toll House brand Shocked
I have since switched brands to Guittard (a local Bay Area Co.) that makes the finest chocolate in the world. Additionally, the owner of Guittard is on the forefront to fight the evil demons who are trying to change the definition of chocolate in American food products. Angry Nestles, Hersheys, and all the other major chocolate makers have sold their soul to devil and will be making us endure the toll house of phoney chocolate if we let them win this battle.


Hey!  You can even eat dark chocolate during a fast, though one might question the spirit of doing so.

I digress.  "We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming."
« Last Edit: August 30, 2007, 01:51:58 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2007, 02:29:08 AM »

...
I have since switched brands to Guittard (a local Bay Area Co.) that makes the finest chocolate in the world.
...

While I like to support local companies too, I think you need to make a better case that Guittard makes a better product than the following companies to start with:

Godiva
Lindt & Sprüngli
Ritter Sport
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2007, 02:38:27 AM »

"We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming."
IOW, please get back on topic.  Thank you.
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Peter J
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« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2007, 09:42:55 AM »

I think I know what you mean by this anti-Catholic spirit among Protestant converts.
Addison Hart wrote a Touchstone article about that (and the reverse, i.e. converts to Catholicism who are anti-Orthodox): Convert Provocateurs

-Peter.

P.S. That same Touchstone issue also had book reviews of Clark Carlton, Michael Whelton, and Stephen K. Ray which may be of interest: Paths & Polemics
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