1 Cor. 14:33b-36, Epistles to Timothy and Titus

[minasoliman]

The title indicates the question of St. Paul's authorship to the passage and the "pastoral epistles".

The connection is the question on women being silent, as something that St. Paul never believed, and was only added due to some women who were teaching heterodoxy.

I'd like to hear some views.

[ozgeorge]

The connection is the question on women being silent

Here's my own little theory.
Corinth was a major port city. The equivalent in Greece today would be the port of Piraeus. Like port cities the world over, one of the most thriving professions in Piraeus is the world's oldest profession- prostitution; and the same was true of Corinth.
Have you ever seen the film "Never On Sunday"? It's a story about an American academic called "Homer" who journeys to Greece in order to find out why the ancient glories and wisdom of Greece are lost. He travels to Piraeus, and takes it upon himself to educate a Piraeus prostitute "Ilya" about her cultural heritage. Despite all his "Pygmalion" type attempts to teach Ilya, her practical, down-to-earth wisdom foils him every time, and eventually shows him up as being subject to violating the very high moral standards he himself sets. Ilya is a very powerful character on a philosophical level.
Now, my theory is this: Corinth, being a port city with a flourishing trade in prostitution may have brought many prostitutes into the Church. We know from the rest of Corinthians that sexual immorality was one of the things which Paul rebuked in his letters to the Corinthians. Could it be that his instruction to the Corinthians which forbad women to speak was actually directed at these very powerful prostitute converts? Not only did they have a powerful, earthy philosophy (like Ilya) which may have influenced the Church in Corinth to accept sexual immorality, they may also have served some of the male converts to the Church in the past and knew their "little secrets", putting them in an even more powerful position.......

[minasoliman]

Dear George,

That could be a one good reason.  I do understand that Corinth as the Vegas (even worse) of their times.

Here's a quote from another forum describing the reasons for these verses, which might not be far off from what you said, considering the heresies associated:

The Pastoral Epistles (1 and 2 Tim. and Titus) were written in the generation after St. Paul, when churches were being established. They respond to problems that face the Church after the life of the Apostles. The parts about women, and the authority of the male bishops, priests and deacons were asserted, because of the (made-up) stories and prophecies that some women were making that led to heterodox teachings and threatend Christianity (e.g. the Montanists, the Nicolaitans, the Orphites). For that reason, women were commanded to remain silent in the context of making-up prophecies and telling fables and tales that are false.

I guess the question can be is how one can interpret these verses in today's society.

God bless.

[ozgeorge]

Women are not forbidden to prophesy in the Corinthian Church, the only proviso is that they prophesy "with their head covered" (I Corinthians 11: 5). The Epistle makes a distinction between women who cover their head, and women who do not cover their head in Corinth (I Corinthians 11: 5-10). I think the key verse to understanding this is the tenth verse (I Corinthians 11: 10 )  :

"δια τουτο οφειλει η γυνη εξουσιαν εχειν επι της κεφαλης δια τους αγγελους"

This is most often translated English as:

"For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels."

Which, of course, raises two questons:
1) Why are women instructed to cover their head 'because of the Angels'?
2) What type of woman in Corinth would not have a 'symbol of authority' on her head?

Firstly, why "for the sake of the Angels"? In many Orthodox Churches even today, and especially in monastery Churches, women stand separate to the men, even if they are married to them. The Divine Liturgy is the point where Heaven meets Earth, and Eternity breaks into Time and Space, therefore, the Assembly of the Church reflects the Life which to come. Our Lord Jesus Christ said:
"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven." (Mark 12:25). Could Paul be saying to the Corinthians that when they assemble in Church, they must similarly be "like the Angels"? If so, then why would a woman with her head uncovered not be "like the Angels"? The ones who would have their heads uncovered would be the prostitutes, which, as I pointed out in my previous post, would have had a very powerful position in Corinthian society. By ordering prostitutes to cover their heads, Paul would have been curbing their power. They had to prophesy without any appeal to their position of power in Corinthian society.

[falafel333]

How could they be permitted to prophecy and yet be ordered to keep silent?

[Nigula Qian Zishi]

I like that explanantion, but most Church Fathers I have read say it is due to fallen angels, not the angels of God.

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