Author Topic: Is it realistic every orthodox can find a orthodox to marry ?  (Read 224 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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I plan on dating all Christians. I will accept all Christians I will not force but I will try to make her and her family orthodox. I will however insist my children are baptised. She should be fine with that since she believes she is really a Christian. I think children should not be hindered from being baptised but I will not force something on a spouse she never wanted but I will make sure my children are baptised. I trust God if He wishes can draw them to the church as long as I don't try to tell them our beliefs don't make a difference which I don't know but maybe I don't even have to bring it up for they never cared for that and only God knows if it makes a difference . As my dad says I should never be on the offensive but on the defensive. I can defend the orthodox position

I don't believe it is my job to tell other denominations they are wrong

As one protestant on the Christian forum wisely said do not speak evil of one another brethren he who speaks evil of a brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. There is one lawgiver able to save and to destroy.
God is able to save people. I believe everyone who repents God will make sure they know the truth even if he has to send an angel as Thomas Aquinas said. Even if they can't live fully righteous as those in the church they work hard for their salvation within their ability. That is why I said God will show them the truth even if they are sinners by which I mean truly desiring to please God but not being able to live as only those in the church can

but if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I will say this is what I believe the bible teaches but God knows he may accept you according to the honesty of your beliefs and God will judge your sincerity to please Him and in general. My dad thinks he will accept them but it is not his job to say God accepts or not accepts

My dad told me to have this attitude not to be on the offensive but on the defensive . He thinks I don't even have to tell you I only plan to be on the defensive etc. Maybe that is being on the offensive to tell you that. But if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I can defend my belief in Jesus teachings that protestants don't believe in that we find essential.
But I am not sure I fully agree with his advice which is why I feel I have to make this post but I will follow his advice from now on
« Last Edit: Today at 04:34:16 AM by mikeforjesus »

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I plan on dating all Christians. I will accept all Christians I will not force but I will try to make her and her family orthodox. I will however insist my children are baptised. She should be fine with that since she believes she is really a Christian. I think children should not be hindered from being baptised but I will not force something on a spouse she never wanted but I will make sure my children are baptised. I trust God if He wishes can draw them to the church as long as I don't try to tell them our beliefs don't make a difference which I don't know but maybe I don't even have to bring it up for they never cared for that and only God knows if it makes a difference . As my dad says I should never be on the offensive but on the defensive. I can defend the orthodox position

I don't believe it is my job to tell other denominations they are wrong

As one protestant on the Christian forum wisely said do not speak evil of one another brethren he who speaks evil of a brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. There is one lawgiver able to save and to destroy.
God is able to save people. I believe everyone who repents God will make sure they know the truth even if he has to send an angel as Thomas Aquinas said. Even if they can't live fully righteous as those in the church they work hard for their salvation within their ability. That is why I said God will show them the truth even if they are sinners by which I mean truly desiring to please God but not being able to live as only those in the church can

but if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I will say this is what I believe the bible teaches but God knows he may accept you according to the honesty of your beliefs and God will judge your sincerity to please Him and in general. My dad thinks he will accept them but it is not his job to say God accepts or not accepts

My dad told me to have this attitude not to be on the offensive but on the defensive . He thinks I don't even have to tell you I only plan to be on the defensive etc. Maybe that is being on the offensive to tell you that. But if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I can defend my belief in Jesus teachings that protestants don't believe in that we find essential.
But I am not sure I fully agree with his advice which is why I feel I have to make this post but I will follow his advice from now on

Mike, while I think what you wrote above is quite reasonable, the core of the problem is something else.
It is not about bible teachings or offense vs. defense or which denomination is right or wrong.
Believe me, you will not discuss the Filioque, Papal Primacy, Sola Scriptura or whatnot with your future (possibly heterodox) wife on a daily basis.
While theology is of course important, it will likely just not play any bigger role in your everyday marital life.
These are some of the factors which have a much higher importance:

* personal compatibility: Can you tolerate each other a life time?
* influence of her family/friends on her: You do not just marry her, but also her family
* common (also non-religious) goals in life

With children entering the picture, another layer of complexity is added.
In my experience, different faiths are often not so much the reason but more the catalyst for disagreement.






« Last Edit: Today at 05:24:22 AM by Lepanto »

Offline mikeforjesus

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I plan on dating all Christians. I will accept all Christians I will not force but I will try to make her and her family orthodox. I will however insist my children are baptised. She should be fine with that since she believes she is really a Christian. I think children should not be hindered from being baptised but I will not force something on a spouse she never wanted but I will make sure my children are baptised. I trust God if He wishes can draw them to the church as long as I don't try to tell them our beliefs don't make a difference which I don't know but maybe I don't even have to bring it up for they never cared for that and only God knows if it makes a difference . As my dad says I should never be on the offensive but on the defensive. I can defend the orthodox position

I don't believe it is my job to tell other denominations they are wrong

As one protestant on the Christian forum wisely said do not speak evil of one another brethren he who speaks evil of a brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. There is one lawgiver able to save and to destroy.
God is able to save people. I believe everyone who repents God will make sure they know the truth even if he has to send an angel as Thomas Aquinas said. Even if they can't live fully righteous as those in the church they work hard for their salvation within their ability. That is why I said God will show them the truth even if they are sinners by which I mean truly desiring to please God but not being able to live as only those in the church can

but if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I will say this is what I believe the bible teaches but God knows he may accept you according to the honesty of your beliefs and God will judge your sincerity to please Him and in general. My dad thinks he will accept them but it is not his job to say God accepts or not accepts

My dad told me to have this attitude not to be on the offensive but on the defensive . He thinks I don't even have to tell you I only plan to be on the defensive etc. Maybe that is being on the offensive to tell you that. But if I am asked about my orthodox beliefs I can defend my belief in Jesus teachings that protestants don't believe in that we find essential.
But I am not sure I fully agree with his advice which is why I feel I have to make this post but I will follow his advice from now on

Mike, while I think what you wrote above is quite reasonable, the core of the problem is something else.
It is not about bible teachings or offense vs. defense or which denomination is right or wrong.
Believe me, you will not discuss the Filioque, Papal Primacy, Sola Scriptura or whatnot with your future (possibly heterodox) wife on a daily basis.
While theology is of course important, it will likely just not play any bigger role in your everyday marital life.
These are some of the factors which have a much higher importance:

* personal compatibility: Can you tolerate each other a life time?
* influence of her family/friends on her: You do not just marry her, but also her family
* common (also non-religious) goals in life

With children entering the picture, another layer of complexity is added.
In my experience, different faiths are often not so much the reason but more the catalyst for disagreement.


Thankyou Lepanto I appreciate your reply. I was realising some or all of them may be a problem also
My dad says some Christians think they are saved and so are orthodox so they won't be offended if I baptise my child. That is for the family side. So I have to avoid those with family who don't accept me

I think maybe now I will make my wife life hell I would tolerate but she would not because of lack of common interest and me not showing great independence and signs of successful future. I see good potential for success in my future but I have to show it first

I am finding common interests a problem. Because it seems I have to have a more interesting life even more than them and be more down to earth

I trust God if He wishes can draw them to the church as long as I don't try to tell them our beliefs don't make a difference which I don't know but maybe I don't even have to bring it up for they never cared for that and only God knows if it makes a difference .

I meant to say but it is too late to edit that it does not make a difference perhaps for God to draw them to Him
« Last Edit: Today at 05:58:19 AM by mikeforjesus »

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My dad says some Christians think they are saved and so are orthodox so they won't be offended if I baptise my child.
I do not really understand that part. Why should anyone be offended if you were to baptize your child?
The Orthodox are at an advantage here: Pretty much everyone recognizes their baptism - not necessarily so the other way round  ::)
It is more about deciding in which church to raise possible children.

Also you wrote:
I am finding common interests a problem. Because it seems I have to have a more interesting life even more than them and be more down to earth

What do you mean by "interesting life"?
Having a lot of (extravagant) hobbies is not important in my opinion, quite to the contrary:
After all, you are looking for a spouse who in turn desires to build a family and get ever close to HIM together with you throughout her life.
This does not really that much correlate with "interesting life" in the common meaning of the words.


« Last Edit: Today at 07:31:46 AM by Lepanto »

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« Last Edit: Today at 07:30:27 AM by Lepanto »

Offline mikeforjesus

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When I say hobbies it is because some hobbies can make you money which is needed to give to the poor and/or provide ministries or can help you make friends so some people see you as a good Christian by being able to do them with other people which is what they really like and are attracted to. They are also attracted to ministries. Maybe because they care for image. But ministry is a good thing but we don't wait till we become rich or get puffed up by our works
You know we were not only given spiritual talents but natural talents also.
For example my parents think I should live in the real world and watch the news and be someone who has other interests so I don't just always talk about the bible
St. Paul says the married person cares how they may please their spouse. That is the way to serve God as a married person. It is more about engaging with the culture for a married person perhaps
« Last Edit: Today at 08:05:48 AM by mikeforjesus »

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When I say hobbies it is because some hobbies can make you money which is needed to give to the poor and/or provide ministries or can help you make friends so some people see you as a good Christian by being able to do them with other people which is what they really like and are attracted to. They are also attracted to ministries. Maybe because they care for image. But ministry is a good thing but we don't wait till we become rich or get puffed up by our works
You know we were not only given spiritual talents but natural talents also.
For example my parents think I should live in the real world and watch the news and be someone who has other interests so I don't just always talk about the bible
St. Paul says the married person cares how they may please their spouse. That is the way to serve God as a married person. It is more about engaging with the culture for a married person perhaps

Maybe you should listen to your parents then!

Offline Porter ODoran

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society. Consider the companionship of a monastery.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline Dominika

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That's a problem for Orthodox Christians that live in non-Orthodox countries, or countries with tiny Orthodox minority.

The answer for thread question in my opinion is: No, it's not.
So, what can be the purpose of such marriage? Well, there are many stories, from our times and from the past, that due to Orthodox spouse the non-Orthodox husband/wife has embraced Orthodoxy. So, it may be really a great thing: bring one person (or even the whole family) to Christ, to the Salvation.

Yeah, it does not happen always.

I understand you since I have this problem, living in non-Orthodox country, despite the fact that our Church is autocephalus. Morevoer, as one of my friends says "I'm minority in minority" - I'm of Polish Orthodox minority, but this minority constis mainly of Podlachians and Lemkos, I'm none of these ones. I think that at least here in Poland is very difficult "task" to find an Orthodox man that's not already engaged/married, being in (more or less) my age. I know at least a few Polish Orthodox single women over 30 and 40.
I hope taht if I don't meet a male being already Orthodox, maybe there will be one truly itnerested in Orthodoxy.

Because marriage from the Orthodox perspective is the common Eucharistical Chalice and the common path to the Salvation (prayers, fasting, feasts, the way of life in general). So it's highly recommendable to marry an Orthodox person. So, I don't agree with Lepanto, that it's not a big deal since you won't discuss with your wife in the everyday life such thigns as Filioque. You won't discuss, yes. But you will be supposed (from the Church perspective) live with your wife in the Orthodox manner.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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That's a problem for Orthodox Christians that live in non-Orthodox countries, or countries with tiny Orthodox minority.

The answer for thread question in my opinion is: No, it's not.
So, what can be the purpose of such marriage? Well, there are many stories, from our times and from the past, that due to Orthodox spouse the non-Orthodox husband/wife has embraced Orthodoxy. So, it may be really a great thing: bring one person (or even the whole family) to Christ, to the Salvation.

Yeah, it does not happen always.

I understand you since I have this problem, living in non-Orthodox country, despite the fact that our Church is autocephalus. Morevoer, as one of my friends says "I'm minority in minority" - I'm of Polish Orthodox minority, but this minority constis mainly of Podlachians and Lemkos, I'm none of these ones. I think that at least here in Poland is very difficult "task" to find an Orthodox man that's not already engaged/married, being in (more or less) my age. I know at least a few Polish Orthodox single women over 30 and 40.
I hope taht if I don't meet a male being already Orthodox, maybe there will be one truly itnerested in Orthodoxy.

Because marriage from the Orthodox perspective is the common Eucharistical Chalice and the common path to the Salvation (prayers, fasting, feasts, the way of life in general). So it's highly recommendable to marry an Orthodox person. So, I don't agree with Lepanto, that it's not a big deal since you won't discuss with your wife in the everyday life such thigns as Filioque. You won't discuss, yes. But you will be supposed (from the Church perspective) live with your wife in the Orthodox manner.

There are two ironies here. One, that I hear women say they cannot meet men, and, just as often or more often, I hear men say they can't find women. Two, that non-Orthodox and even completely secular people are notorious for complaining they cannot find a match.

I do not deny the logistical difficulties of being a small minority community. On the other hand, growing up in a group with only a few thousand members, none of my friends failed to marry. Orthodox Jews find each other to marry. Conservative Hindus, the same. These are all tiny minorities in the U.S.

Taking that anecdote and comparing it to the seemingly continual stream of complaint I hear from majority, Protestant or secular, Americans that they can find nobody suitable, I begin to question what the real reasons are.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are

Offline NicholasMyra

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society.
Dude, this is embarrassing. Stop.
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On the other hand, growing up in a group with only a few thousand members, none of my friends failed to marry. Orthodox Jews find each other to marry. Conservative Hindus, the same. These are all tiny minorities in the U.S.

But these groups are so conservative, that probably they marry their cousings and/or there are arranged marriages; so, no need for looking for, but also no choice.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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On the other hand, growing up in a group with only a few thousand members, none of my friends failed to marry. Orthodox Jews find each other to marry. Conservative Hindus, the same. These are all tiny minorities in the U.S.

But these groups are so conservative, that probably they marry their cousings and/or there are arranged marriages; so, no need for looking for, but also no choice.

Haha.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are

Offline Porter ODoran

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society.
Dude, this is embarrassing. Stop.

How's that wedded life going?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society. Consider the companionship of a monastery.

Every black cloud [not marrying] has a silver lining [not ending up divorced or in an lifeless marriage to a nasty hag].

The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society.
Dude, this is embarrassing. Stop.

How's that wedded life going?
Why are you blaming your failed marriage on society?
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Offline rakovsky

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Well, you really can find an Orthodox wife to marry, you just probably have to travel considering how few parishes and youth there are in the West.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Porter ODoran

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For the present distress, it may be better not to marry. Most factors that allowed marriages to succeed smoothly in the past have been purged from society.
Dude, this is embarrassing. Stop.

How's that wedded life going?
Why are you blaming your failed marriage on society?

Gallant of you to come to Nicholas's defense, but it doesn't make his post any more logical. Scoffing at an observation that one's own life bears out is not very useful or rational.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are

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Ironically, I found an Orthodox wife when I was not looking for one. Nobody in my family ever married a non-Catholic. Interfaith marriages are never ideal, take it from me.
For all minorities, finding a spouse of the same faith is luxury. And same faith will do no good if you hate your wife deeply after three months of marriage - yet another divorce it will mean. So personal compatibility is a non-negotiable must. A common life in the faith as Dominika described is of course very desirable, but it is not granted even with same-faith couples: Lots are non-practising or become so over time. What I am trying to say:
Marriage has very worldly aspects: If you come home after a hard day of work and are dead tired and the little one does not stop crying and your wife complains that you still did not repair the leaking kitchen sink and ...
It has a lot to do with endurance and patience.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:01:01 PM by Lepanto »