Poll

Do you support or oppose Euthanasia?

Support.
5 (17.2%)
Oppose.
20 (69%)
It is complicated.
4 (13.8%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Author Topic: Euthanasia  (Read 2302 times)

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2015, 03:01:48 AM »
Life and death has never as a general rule been up to God, it has always been up to the created things. That certainly didn't change with being expelled from Eden. Very rarely in the course of human history, if you believe the Bible anyway, has God stepped in to actively force someone to live or force them to die. These instances are exactly so notable and exceptional because they are odd and the exception. Usually it's up to humans, or other elements of creation, to both decide and bring about the ending of a life. Also, if it really were up to God, then there would be no justifiable reason for war, ever, under any circumstances; if it were up to God then any combat would be not only a lack of faith in God and his providence, but also an attempt to usurp his role--in essence, to 'play God' yourself because you don't trust him (or perhaps you just don't want to do what he wills).

All of this is simply absurd, unless perhaps we accept a tortured new definition of God that evidently makes him some kind of fairy of Mr. Kissel's construction. To avoid this fairy folly, I'll simply change the focus of the conversation enough to speak less of God and more of his handmaiden, Nature. From Nature life has always sprung forth and death has always come beckoning. Good men of all faiths have always been cautious about challenging Nature to whom we owe so much and whom we understand so humbly. Yet especially so if, to challenge her, we would have to raise a hand against the life of a fellow human being.

That doesn't make any sense. By that measure, euthanizing somebody who's dying of a disease is just doing Nature's will (unless you care about the premature deaths of viruses and bacteria). You might as well say that it's unnatural to prune a vine. After all, humans in a sense are part of Nature too.

If you're holding out for a medical miracle, then you why not also use extraordinary means and trust that God will guide the doctor's hand?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 03:03:28 AM by Volnutt »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2015, 03:08:49 AM »
Volnutt, I've spoken to you in another thread about what seems to be a tactic that might be termed the switcheroo. I'm not going to discourse with someone who either won't read my posts or who -- it begins to seem possible -- purposely gives them the opposite meaning they're intended to have. It's one thing to disagree, another to argue -- yet another to bait and confound, willfully or not.

No, it is not "just doing Nature's will" medically to intervene in nature.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2015, 03:26:38 AM »
Volnutt, I've spoken to you in another thread about what seems to be a tactic that might be termed the switcheroo. I'm not going to discourse with someone who either won't read my posts or who -- it begins to seem possible -- purposely gives them the opposite meaning they're intended to have. It's one thing to disagree, another to argue -- yet another to bait and confound, willfully or not.

No, it is not "just doing Nature's will" medically to intervene in nature.

I wasn't attributing that statement to you, I was doing a reductio ad absurdum.

Quote
From Nature life has always sprung forth and death has always come beckoning. Good men of all faiths have always been cautious about challenging Nature to whom we owe so much and whom we understand so humbly.

My gloss- Nature causes life, Nature causes death. Don't challenge Nature because we know little about it.

Nature is killing somebody, euthanasia expedites the process (ie. doing Nature's will). That's the very opposite of "challenging Nature."

If anything, it's not euthanasia that your reasoning works against, but almost all medical life saving measures since they're challenging the natural process of dying. And of course, similar reasoning like this gets employed by fundamentalist Protestants all the time.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2015, 03:37:11 AM »
Try to keep up. Start with Mr. Kissel's post, in which he piously explains God has no hand in life or death. Or, you know, leap to fill webpages with preconceived drivel when you think you notice a term or phrase that excuses you. Just don't expect my response, as such derailing offers no meaningful way to respond beyond perhaps a virtual pat on the head.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2015, 05:13:39 AM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.


It is not a "massive ... grey area." As someone who works in nursing, I can assure you that a care provider knows when she is invading a patient's body and prolonging a life artificially. While "euthanasia" is quite opposite, the invasion of a patient's body to poison it or otherwise shut it down. It's elementary. What is not elementary, of course, is always knowing if invasive care is really able to prolong a life in a meaningful way or not. However, this becomes scarily plain with time. About 85% of ICU patients will die there. Plainly their stay was unnecessary suffering.

What is complicated is the present attitude of avoiding death at all costs. Curious, then, this reaction so extreme -- from prolonging a life by all means -- to ending it by artificial means. So the passions drive us poor sinners and leave us no rest.

This is just simply untrue.

The average mortality rate of an ICU is between 8 and 19 percent (http://healthpolicy.ucsf.edu/content/icu-outcomes).

Of course, the average may be slightly higher in some states (NJ and CA), though this data is drawn from those between 67 and 99 years of age, who likely have a slightly higher risk of death in the ICU: http://www.dartmouthatlas.org/data/table.aspx?ind=14

But certainly, it's nowhere near 85%, or even 50%.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2015, 05:50:28 AM »
Try to keep up. Start with Mr. Kissel's post, in which he piously explains God has no hand in life or death. Or, you know, leap to fill webpages with preconceived drivel when you think you notice a term or phrase that excuses you. Just don't expect my response, as such derailing offers no meaningful way to respond beyond perhaps a virtual pat on the head.

That's not what Justin is doing, as far as I understand him. He's saying that God set up nature to operate on its own and that He rarely intervenes. So, God's hand in life and death is indirect. I tend to agree with this understanding, but I recognize it has problems.

It's really neither hear nor there, though. Either way, I say that arguing about what is "natural" is unhelpful in these kinds of discussions because:

1. To the extent that human activity is a part of nature, we weren't really "altering" it anyway and

2. Whatever happens, life or death, could just be said to be what God willed all along.

When we devise surgeries and antibiotics to treat the dying, aren't we altering nature's course--giving the body's healing capabilities a helping hand that would not otherwise be there (I'll admit, it was clumsy of me to say "nature's will")? Wouldn't it be more natural to let the sick die and just say that it was their time to go (or let God miraculously heal them if they're meant to live)? Why is medicine ok, but giving a painless end to somebody who is dying anyway the height of hubris? This is not "raise[ing] a hand against the life of a fellow human being" because we aren't the ones making them terminally ill in the first place, nature is. We're just making the process go more humanely. You said yourself that life and death are both a part of nature.

Or if you have a problem with that, then you shouldn't have a problem with extraordinary life saving measures. You said yourself that there comes a point at which a medical procedure will not prolong life "in a meaningful way." But who are we to dictate to God what is meaningful? Maybe some hitherto unknown natural phenomenon will bring them back from the brink. Maybe God will miraculously heal them. You don't know. Don't challenge nature.
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Offline stella1990

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2015, 08:14:06 AM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.

Regarding Terri Schiavo's case... we are not talking about of a terminally ill cancer patient who can say "OK, i WANT TO END MY LIFE". This woman couldnt talk. She was concience all the time. But in a semi vegetal state. And husband wanted to get rid of her, parents not... IMHO.

One thing is hearing some terminally ill petition's and another ending the life of those unable to say anything.

I fear this. My little brother was born with a very serious health problem. Doctors believed he would not survive.. if we have followed some things that have been said in this thread... he would have been put to death ... "the nature takes its course stuff"... without making an effort with surgery, medicines...etc... now my brother is 32 , has some physical issues but he is intelectually brilliant.... He went to a special needs school and I saw a lot of kids very near to Terri's state... not semi vegetal... but in wheel chairs, unable to speak... they have to be feeded, cleaned... all stuff... they deserve to be killed???????? where is the line to "nature takes its course with people who cannot explicitly say that they want to die"??????'
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 08:35:28 AM by stella1990 »

Offline stella1990

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2015, 08:21:38 AM »
Its a very complex thing.

Before I returned to Christ I saw euthanasia with some "simpathy". I cannot tolerate physical pain. When I feel stomach pain I feel like i'm going to die. And I believed that some person with cancer had the right to end his/her life.

Now I believe that only God can give and take away life. I would not support euthanasia.

But I'm no fool and I know that terminally ill people suffer a lot, I had an aunt with cancer and she died almost sedated with morphine. It was very painful. I have my opinion but I will not throw stones to others...

This is exactly where I stand.  I honestly don't know what I would do in that kind of end of life terminal suffering, so I don't judge.  I hope I would not cave in but I don't know.  I have actually prayed for death for those I've watched in their final suffering....I think that is fairly common (and not "unChristian").  Besides, the RCC says no extreme artificial measures to maintain life in the case of terminal illness, other than that it is up to you.   This is a tough one - mercy is appropriate.

+1

I will not judge a person who is suffering a lot and ends his or her life.

(But I believe we have to be very carefully about those who cannot say a word ... because third parts making decisions about life can lead to horrible things...)

I don't care about RC stuff related to this... Im RC as Im not converted to OC... And Im sick of all RC views about suffering. I will not say to a terminally ill person: "Oh, you have tu suffer as Our Lord suffered... offer this to God... this is a way to get closer to God... etc"... In no way. I would do anything to alleviate his or her physical suffering. If I have to buy illegal drugs I would do it, believe me. I would not make my old parents or other dear person suffer just to "make them closer to God".

IMHO.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2015, 09:55:09 AM »
If I was terminally ill and in alot of pain that could not be numbed by medication then yes I would want to be euthanized. There is no point in suffering needlessly. It should be between me and my doctor.

God gave you this life, so you get to determine when it ends?  Yeah, that's compatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.  Sure, do what you will, but don't expect to be given plaudits.

Is the terminal cancer patient who opts for a couple of weeks of palliative care, rather than a couple of months of aggressive treatment, determining when their life ends? If that's trying to escape suffering, then guilty as charged.

There is a difference between palliative care and active full-on Euthanasia.  I have no qualms about terminally ill people seeking palliative care; I do object to them being intentionally killed.

Palliative care is intentional and results in a quicker death of the patient.
There is a major difference between stopping treatment that may extend someone's life and actively working to shorten someone's life. I see no problem with the first. The second is evil.
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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2015, 09:57:04 AM »
If I was terminally ill and in alot of pain that could not be numbed by medication then yes I would want to be euthanized. There is no point in suffering needlessly. It should be between me and my doctor.

God gave you this life, so you get to determine when it ends?  Yeah, that's compatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.  Sure, do what you will, but don't expect to be given plaudits.

God gave me life, a brain, and a conscience.Sorry he only gave you a life. I guess it is better than nothing. The Church doesn't belong in my bedroom or my hospital room. My health decisions don't involve you so don't worry about it.

St. Basil the Great would disagree, I think, based on his invention of the hospital and his known positions on human sexuality.  I think the Church has a duty of care to criticize society when society proposes to end the lives of vulnerable people.

He might but I didn't ask him for his opinion. He can surely have one but it will not have any power over my medical decisions nor will it deter my doctor from doing his job. And society has a duty to circumscribe the activities of churches. They need to be taxed and well regulated.
How do you proposed well-regulating a church? Does this include the state telling the church what it can and cannot say?
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2015, 12:06:16 PM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.


It is not a "massive ... grey area." As someone who works in nursing, I can assure you that a care provider knows when she is invading a patient's body and prolonging a life artificially. While "euthanasia" is quite opposite, the invasion of a patient's body to poison it or otherwise shut it down. It's elementary. What is not elementary, of course, is always knowing if invasive care is really able to prolong a life in a meaningful way or not. However, this becomes scarily plain with time. About 85% of ICU patients will die there. Plainly their stay was unnecessary suffering.

What is complicated is the present attitude of avoiding death at all costs. Curious, then, this reaction so extreme -- from prolonging a life by all means -- to ending it by artificial means. So the passions drive us poor sinners and leave us no rest.

This is just simply untrue.

The average mortality rate of an ICU is between 8 and 19 percent (http://healthpolicy.ucsf.edu/content/icu-outcomes).

Of course, the average may be slightly higher in some states (NJ and CA), though this data is drawn from those between 67 and 99 years of age, who likely have a slightly higher risk of death in the ICU: http://www.dartmouthatlas.org/data/table.aspx?ind=14

But certainly, it's nowhere near 85%, or even 50%.

Your data is including "step down" unit data.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2015, 04:46:06 PM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.

Regarding Terri Schiavo's case... we are not talking about of a terminally ill cancer patient who can say "OK, i WANT TO END MY LIFE". This woman couldnt talk. She was concience all the time. But in a semi vegetal state. And husband wanted to get rid of her, parents not... IMHO.

One thing is hearing some terminally ill petition's and another ending the life of those unable to say anything.

I fear this. My little brother was born with a very serious health problem. Doctors believed he would not survive.. if we have followed some things that have been said in this thread... he would have been put to death ... "the nature takes its course stuff"... without making an effort with surgery, medicines...etc... now my brother is 32 , has some physical issues but he is intelectually brilliant.... He went to a special needs school and I saw a lot of kids very near to Terri's state... not semi vegetal... but in wheel chairs, unable to speak... they have to be feeded, cleaned... all stuff... they deserve to be killed???????? where is the line to "nature takes its course with people who cannot explicitly say that they want to die"??????'

I quite agree (not necessarily about Terri Schiavo specifically, but in general). I wouldn't wish having to make a personal determination like that on my worst enemy. Which is probably the main reason I think blanket determinations of "its always right" or "its always wrong" are not helpful.

I'm really glad that your brother pulled through and has thrived and I would never say that your parents did the wrong thing in advocating for him and I'm so sorry if I gave that impression. :-[ It's easy for generalized discussions to run rough shod over the heartbreaking nature of individual cases.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 04:50:44 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline stella1990

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2015, 04:59:57 PM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.

Regarding Terri Schiavo's case... we are not talking about of a terminally ill cancer patient who can say "OK, i WANT TO END MY LIFE". This woman couldnt talk. She was concience all the time. But in a semi vegetal state. And husband wanted to get rid of her, parents not... IMHO.

One thing is hearing some terminally ill petition's and another ending the life of those unable to say anything.

I fear this. My little brother was born with a very serious health problem. Doctors believed he would not survive.. if we have followed some things that have been said in this thread... he would have been put to death ... "the nature takes its course stuff"... without making an effort with surgery, medicines...etc... now my brother is 32 , has some physical issues but he is intelectually brilliant.... He went to a special needs school and I saw a lot of kids very near to Terri's state... not semi vegetal... but in wheel chairs, unable to speak... they have to be feeded, cleaned... all stuff... they deserve to be killed???????? where is the line to "nature takes its course with people who cannot explicitly say that they want to die"??????'

I quite agree (not necessarily about Terri Schiavo specifically, but in general). I wouldn't wish having to make a personal determination like that on my worst enemy. Which is probably the main reason I think blanket determinations of "its always right" or "its always wrong" are not helpful.

I'm really glad that your brother pulled through and has thrived and I would never say that your parents did the wrong thing in advocating for him and I'm so sorry if I gave that impression. :-[ It's easy for generalized discussions to run rough shod over the heartbreaking nature of individual cases.

Don't worry you didn't gave that impression to me :) ...

This is very complex and maybe a priest could give better advice.

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2015, 09:09:03 PM »
There's a difference between euthanasia (which is artificially ending one's life earlier than it naturally would) and simply letting nature take its course. The latter is not euthanasia; Pope John Paul II was allowed to die naturally (IIRC) even when medical intervention could theoretically have prolonged his life.

I never understood the whole Terri Schiavo fiasco either. Removing her feeding tube was not euthanasia. I think the RC church might have overstepped its bounds on that one, especially given their approach to Pope John Paul II.

That's exactly where the grey area lies, and it's a massive one. We're increasingly obsessed with the idea of prolonging life, even beyond the point where such life loses the ability to sustain itself, and refusing such a prolongation is considered tantamount to suicide, assisted or not. (I agree with you on Schiavo, BTW.) If you want to see knee-jerk reactions, just bring up DNR orders - which are not euthanasia either.


It is not a "massive ... grey area." As someone who works in nursing, I can assure you that a care provider knows when she is invading a patient's body and prolonging a life artificially. While "euthanasia" is quite opposite, the invasion of a patient's body to poison it or otherwise shut it down. It's elementary. What is not elementary, of course, is always knowing if invasive care is really able to prolong a life in a meaningful way or not. However, this becomes scarily plain with time. About 85% of ICU patients will die there. Plainly their stay was unnecessary suffering.

What is complicated is the present attitude of avoiding death at all costs. Curious, then, this reaction so extreme -- from prolonging a life by all means -- to ending it by artificial means. So the passions drive us poor sinners and leave us no rest.

This is just simply untrue.

The average mortality rate of an ICU is between 8 and 19 percent (http://healthpolicy.ucsf.edu/content/icu-outcomes).

Of course, the average may be slightly higher in some states (NJ and CA), though this data is drawn from those between 67 and 99 years of age, who likely have a slightly higher risk of death in the ICU: http://www.dartmouthatlas.org/data/table.aspx?ind=14

But certainly, it's nowhere near 85%, or even 50%.

Your data is including "step down" unit data.

And do you have a citation for your absurd claim?
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2015, 09:09:34 PM »
If I was terminally ill and in alot of pain that could not be numbed by medication then yes I would want to be euthanized. There is no point in suffering needlessly. It should be between me and my doctor.

God gave you this life, so you get to determine when it ends?  Yeah, that's compatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.  Sure, do what you will, but don't expect to be given plaudits.

Is the terminal cancer patient who opts for a couple of weeks of palliative care, rather than a couple of months of aggressive treatment, determining when their life ends? If that's trying to escape suffering, then guilty as charged.

There is a difference between palliative care and active full-on Euthanasia.  I have no qualms about terminally ill people seeking palliative care; I do object to them being intentionally killed.

Palliative care is intentional and results in a quicker death of the patient.
There is a major difference between stopping treatment that may extend someone's life and actively working to shorten someone's life. I see no problem with the first. The second is evil.

There's actually not a major difference.

Both lead to a sooner death
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2015, 10:03:15 PM »
That isn't why suicide is condemned in Christianity. There is no commandment that says thou shalt live as long as you possibly can.
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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2015, 07:40:17 AM »
If I was terminally ill and in alot of pain that could not be numbed by medication then yes I would want to be euthanized. There is no point in suffering needlessly. It should be between me and my doctor.

God gave you this life, so you get to determine when it ends?  Yeah, that's compatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.  Sure, do what you will, but don't expect to be given plaudits.

Is the terminal cancer patient who opts for a couple of weeks of palliative care, rather than a couple of months of aggressive treatment, determining when their life ends? If that's trying to escape suffering, then guilty as charged.

There is a difference between palliative care and active full-on Euthanasia.  I have no qualms about terminally ill people seeking palliative care; I do object to them being intentionally killed.

Palliative care is intentional and results in a quicker death of the patient.
There is a major difference between stopping treatment that may extend someone's life and actively working to shorten someone's life. I see no problem with the first. The second is evil.

There's actually not a major difference.

Both lead to a sooner death

This.
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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2017, 01:20:49 PM »
I think it is personal choice.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 01:27:10 PM by Indocern »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2017, 03:57:02 PM »
If I was terminally ill and in alot of pain that could not be numbed by medication then yes I would want to be euthanized. There is no point in suffering needlessly. It should be between me and my doctor.

God gave you this life, so you get to determine when it ends?  Yeah, that's compatible with the teachings of the Orthodox Church.  Sure, do what you will, but don't expect to be given plaudits.

Is the terminal cancer patient who opts for a couple of weeks of palliative care, rather than a couple of months of aggressive treatment, determining when their life ends? If that's trying to escape suffering, then guilty as charged.

There is a difference between palliative care and active full-on Euthanasia.  I have no qualms about terminally ill people seeking palliative care; I do object to them being intentionally killed.

Palliative care is intentional and results in a quicker death of the patient.
There is a major difference between stopping treatment that may extend someone's life and actively working to shorten someone's life. I see no problem with the first. The second is evil.

There's actually not a major difference.

Both lead to a sooner death

Gosh.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2017, 03:58:03 PM »
Wait, who revived this thread? Let it die a natural death please without medical intervention.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Euthanasia
« Reply #65 on: Today at 02:43:19 AM »
Press 2 for morphine.
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