Author Topic: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?  (Read 43809 times)

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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1170 on: May 22, 2015, 11:36:35 AM »
My personal opinion is that only Metropolitan Jonah can bring this soap opera to an end.

The sticking point was having a popular former Met living right next door to the OCA Cathedral.

He has just moved out... I am not sure what else he can do.

I doubt that Metropolitan Jonah can be considered popular. He is popular with an extremely small group of people. His die hard supporters have done him no favors.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 11:47:47 AM by ICXCNIKA »

Offline Marc1152

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1171 on: May 22, 2015, 09:29:00 PM »
First, he is supposed to move out of the DC area.

Correct?


As I understand it, once he complies with all of the instructions of his Synod, then he will be released.  Thus, the end of this aria of the American Orthodox Soap Opera, or what we like to call Opera Buffa Americano.

My personal opinion is that only Metropolitan Jonah can bring this soap opera to an end.

How do you propose he goes about this?
What are the instructions that he is not complying with?

He has now moved.
Not that is matters, but why didn't he do so earlier? If that was one of the things holding up his transfer, why stay in DC and complain that he isn't being transferred? That seems quite odd to me.

Not odd at all.

He tried to buy a place for new Monastery. Each property they looked at had problems so that project is delayed. He would have moved there had they found a suitable place. Since they have not yet, he moved to an apartment outside of the DC area. Once they find a spot for a Monastery, he will go there.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1172 on: May 23, 2015, 12:13:19 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 12:18:44 AM by Orual »
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1173 on: May 23, 2015, 08:25:56 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1174 on: May 23, 2015, 09:31:02 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

I think he has moved to Leesburg which is very far out.. I could be wrong..
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1175 on: May 23, 2015, 10:15:23 AM »
40 miles from the center of DC to the middle of Leesburg, according to Google Maps.

I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.


I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

I think he has moved to Leesburg which is very far out.. I could be wrong..
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Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1176 on: May 23, 2015, 11:22:27 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

Met. Jonah did not look for houses in Alexandria.  The opportunity to move to this house in Alexandria came up through friends.

If the OCA has a problem with where he moved, they have his phone number and they are welcome to call and discuss it.  From what I understand they really just wanted him out of the house next to St. Nicholas.  If Alexandria isn't good enough, this living situation is not necessarily permanent, either.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 11:23:47 AM by Orual »
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Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1177 on: May 23, 2015, 11:38:08 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

I think he has moved to Leesburg which is very far out.. I could be wrong..

Nope, Alexandria.  Still serving at St. John's Cathedral.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline Orest

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1178 on: May 25, 2015, 03:34:16 PM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC. If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.
Nope, Alexandria.  Still serving at St. John's Cathedral.

So he is the problem.

Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1179 on: May 25, 2015, 08:02:31 PM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC.
If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

Nope, Alexandria.  Still serving at St. John's Cathedral.

So he is the problem.

Please do your quote tags correctly.  You made it look like I said he was the problem.

Metropolitan Jonah is not the problem.  He serves where he is invited.  He is regularly invited to St. John's.  Sometimes he doesn't serve but that's where he is most of the time, along with serving in the apartment chapel of Bishop Basil (Rodzianko), and his OCA parish assignment (St. Mark's in Bethesda).

Also, I just read on FB that he was this year's commencement speaker at Jordanville and served the hierarchical services there.  The photo galleries are great.  It looks like a blessed weekend.

Metropolitan Jonah (OCA) presided at the hierarchical vigil and liturgy. During the 6th Hour, Metropolitan Jonah tonsured 4th year student Stanislav Matveev a reader.  At the end of the liturgy, Metropolitan Jonah delivered a homily about the experience of God. He said that everlasting life begins here and now by experiencing the love of God on earth. The only place to find our true self is to get beyond our ego and participate in the living experience of Grace.  Metropolitan Jonah charged the community to become vessels of the Holy Spirit and to spread that love that can only be found in the Orthodox Church. Following the homily, Metropolitan Jonah led the singing of Many Years for the names day of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and all Russia."
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline Marc1152

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1180 on: May 26, 2015, 11:46:40 AM »
I don't really have any opinion on Met Jonah, but the fact that it is taking this long to do a transfer is ridiculous.

That's from the OCA asking for a ton of conditions, including the move.  It's not that Met Jonah wants to be obstinate for whatever insane reason.  Some of the conditions are easier to fulfill than others. 

Met Jonah started looking for a new place to live rather soon after the resignation, but some of his needs and interests changed over time, forcing him to start his search from scratch with each change in parameters.  The first time he was considering properties with his sister's needs in mind (09/2012), which sadly no longer were necessary a few months later (11/2012).  Then the OCA agreed to permit him to remain living in DC as a "retired" bishop (05/2013).  He still wanted to find a cheaper place to live and nearly bought one (10/2013).  Then he found out about ROCOR's plan to request him from the OCA, so he decided not to move just yet (12/2013-01/2014) to keep ROCOR's options open for him.  Then the OCA made moving out of DC a condition for release (03/2014).  He thought of buying a property to be used in the foundation of a monastery (03/2014-03/2015).   This little house in Alexandria is an opportunity that came through some friends of his (04/2015).  From there, he can work on finding permanent property and future plans with ROCOR once the OCA lets him go (Future date, God willing).

Are you are talking about Alexandria, Virginia? I suppose that is technically not in the District, but most folks would consider it to be part of the capitol city, just like McLean, VA and Bethesda, Maryland to mention a few. It really looks like Metropolitan Jonah wants to remain within a short commuting distance of DC.
If I had a vote, I would not agree that he is making a serious effort to adhere to the conditions of his release.

Nope, Alexandria.  Still serving at St. John's Cathedral.

So he is the problem.

Please do your quote tags correctly.  You made it look like I said he was the problem.

Metropolitan Jonah is not the problem.  He serves where he is invited.  He is regularly invited to St. John's.  Sometimes he doesn't serve but that's where he is most of the time, along with serving in the apartment chapel of Bishop Basil (Rodzianko), and his OCA parish assignment (St. Mark's in Bethesda).

Also, I just read on FB that he was this year's commencement speaker at Jordanville and served the hierarchical services there.  The photo galleries are great.  It looks like a blessed weekend.

Metropolitan Jonah (OCA) presided at the hierarchical vigil and liturgy. During the 6th Hour, Metropolitan Jonah tonsured 4th year student Stanislav Matveev a reader.  At the end of the liturgy, Metropolitan Jonah delivered a homily about the experience of God. He said that everlasting life begins here and now by experiencing the love of God on earth. The only place to find our true self is to get beyond our ego and participate in the living experience of Grace.  Metropolitan Jonah charged the community to become vessels of the Holy Spirit and to spread that love that can only be found in the Orthodox Church. Following the homily, Metropolitan Jonah led the singing of Many Years for the names day of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and all Russia."

And he serves at our Mission Church in Beltsville MD regularly.. I'd say every two months or so..
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1181 on: Yesterday at 12:26:47 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
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Offline Orest

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1182 on: Yesterday at 08:34:22 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1183 on: Yesterday at 11:44:09 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1184 on: Yesterday at 11:57:09 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline mike

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1185 on: Yesterday at 02:04:26 PM »
That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.[/size][/font]

Maybe Jordanville doesn't want retired bishop with a group of cultists wandering around, messing into things and gaining new cultists among seminarians? Maybe it's ROCOR leaders that'd like to have him out of the radar as well? I don't think they are that stupid to want have same problems with him OCA had.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1186 on: Yesterday at 02:05:08 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 02:14:27 PM by FatherGiryus »
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Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1187 on: Yesterday at 03:24:15 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery..

Long story short, years ago, the OCA floated the idea of putting Metropolitan Jonah in St. Tikhon's.  This was declined for a number of reasons.

Quote
Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

Apart from the OCA's tiny stipend, Metropolitan Jonah's living is based on freewill donations of the faithful, so obviously he has enough followers to maintain himself.

Quote
He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

He was forced out.  Fortunately for Metropolitan Jonah, the possibility of laying charges on him for that is non-existent.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline Marc1152

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1188 on: Yesterday at 03:29:13 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Orest

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1189 on: Yesterday at 03:42:02 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.

I don't understand the aversion either or the fighting about money: a monk lives in a monastery; he doesn't need a pension from the OCA etc.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1190 on: Yesterday at 04:46:51 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook

I'm not on FB.

I'm sure he has a clear idea for himself.  As for the rest of the Church, that's a different story.
http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
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Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1191 on: Yesterday at 10:02:22 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook

I'm not on FB.

I'm sure he has a clear idea for himself.  As for the rest of the Church, that's a different story.


Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1192 on: Yesterday at 10:12:12 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.
Since he isn't in ROCOR right now, perhaps it would be wiser to follow the directives handed down to him by his own jurisdiction? That would seem to make the most sense to me.
Will we all have to prove our Orthodoxy by adopting St Nicholas avatars now?

Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1193 on: Yesterday at 11:08:55 PM »

Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.
Since he isn't in ROCOR right now, perhaps it would be wiser to follow the directives handed down to him by his own jurisdiction? That would seem to make the most sense to me.

ROCOR invites him to serve in their churches, and requested his transfer.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
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Offline Jeffrey

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1194 on: Yesterday at 11:23:55 PM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook

I'm not on FB.

I'm sure he has a clear idea for himself.  As for the rest of the Church, that's a different story.


Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.

I think Fr G was responding to the information that Met Jonah and his followers have posted here:  it doesn't add up.

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1195 on: Today at 12:10:16 AM »
He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

How many monasteries has he founded?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

No longer pasting here.

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Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1196 on: Today at 12:35:41 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook

I'm not on FB.

I'm sure he has a clear idea for himself.  As for the rest of the Church, that's a different story.


Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.

I know what people who are his friends say, which is what I respond to.  Is there more information you are privy to?  Are there some other mitigating circumstances that prevent him from being in an established and venerable monastery? 

Please, do tell.
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Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1197 on: Today at 12:59:52 AM »
I still think it would be far more efficient for him to join an existing monastery.[/size][/font]

It would be.
I don't understand why he doesn't just go to Holy Trinity in Jordonville and live out his days as a humble monk?  In the days of the old Russian empire this is what retired bishops did: so what is the problem with him?

That's the tradition, though I would add that retired bishops in monasteries weren't considered 'humble monks,' but rather esteemed members of the community.  A historic and well-established community like Jordanville would be an ideal place.  He could write, give talks, etc. with a proper facility to host guests.

I don't understand the aversion.


He is young

He was forced out of his position

He has a large following

He has much experience setting up both mission churches and monasteries

Rocor is more than happy to have him work with their flock and keep moving forward

There isnt a good reason why he cant still be an active Bishop. We have found him to be extremely useful for our Rocor Parrish. He fills a need.

I really don't see how any of these points precludes him from living a fruitful life in Jordanville.  He can be active there, and use his 'considerable talents' to help keep the community going during a tough time for the monastery.  If he is good for an established parish, then I'd think he'd be good for an established monastery. 

Of course, we don't really know what the ROCOR Synod has in mind for him.  A missionary bishop founding parishes?  Interesting thought, but speculation unless they issue a formal statement.

I would not exactly call this a huge following: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/oca-investigation/signatures.html and http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/metropolitan-jonah/.  I am sure he has a few followers, but the OCA has gone on without him as well as can be expected.

He was not forced out of his position.  That would be a violation of the canons for which he could be forcibly deposed from the episcopate.  His consecration oath forbids his to be compelled to do anything against his will.  Be careful with this charge.

 


I think he has a very clear idea about what he should be doing.. If you have suggestions for him, you can send him a note. He is accessible on FaceBook

I'm not on FB.

I'm sure he has a clear idea for himself.  As for the rest of the Church, that's a different story.


Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.

I know what people who are his friends say, which is what I respond to.  Is there more information you are privy to?  Are there some other mitigating circumstances that prevent him from being in an established and venerable monastery? 

Please, do tell.


ROCOR wants to use Metropolitan Jonah to his full potential.  There is no reason to limit him to an existing monastery.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:06:29 AM by Orual »
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1198 on: Today at 01:01:22 AM »

Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.
Since he isn't in ROCOR right now, perhaps it would be wiser to follow the directives handed down to him by his own jurisdiction? That would seem to make the most sense to me.

ROCOR invites him to serve in their churches, and requested his transfer.
Yes, but he isn't there yet. He should follow the directives of the OCA until his transfer is complete. Then, he should do whatever ROCOR would have him do. If I have a boss and I'm told that at some point, I will be transferring to work under a new supervisor, I don't just ignore my current boss, I do what he tells me until I'm transferred. How is this any different?
Will we all have to prove our Orthodoxy by adopting St Nicholas avatars now?

Offline Orual

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Re: OCA and Metropolitan Jonah Reached an Understanding?
« Reply #1199 on: Today at 01:50:40 AM »

Metropolitan Jonah does not have "an idea for himself" in opposition to the "rest of the Church."  Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation.

For someone who thinks he knows what's best for Metropolitan Jonah, you sure don't know very much about his situation.
Since he isn't in ROCOR right now, perhaps it would be wiser to follow the directives handed down to him by his own jurisdiction? That would seem to make the most sense to me.

ROCOR invites him to serve in their churches, and requested his transfer.
Yes, but he isn't there yet. He should follow the directives of the OCA until his transfer is complete. Then, he should do whatever ROCOR would have him do. If I have a boss and I'm told that at some point, I will be transferring to work under a new supervisor, I don't just ignore my current boss, I do what he tells me until I'm transferred. How is this any different?

Who said he wasn't following the OCA while he is in that jurisdiction?  I said "Everything he is doing is at ROCOR's invitation" to make it clear he serves in ROCOR because they want him, not to suggest that he was being disobedient to the OCA. 
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a