Author Topic: Fools call me a God hater!  (Read 2063 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline servant_wayne

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Fools call me a God hater!
« on: May 09, 2003, 03:48:20 PM »
Fools call me a God hater, not because I say hateful things about God, but because I question the validity of Biblical claims that say God commanded the butchery of men, women and children; that God endorsed the enslavement of the conquered; that God ordered the robbery of the treasuries of others and the theft of their lands. After all, with a god like that who needs a devil to blame?

Throughout history man's belief that there is a God has been universal, yet the fruit of what they have believed of God has been responsible for the persecution and slaughtering of one another in the name of God. Thus, in the end it matters little that men believe that there is a God, for what matters is what do they believe of God? For it is what one believes of God that determines what they shall sow, be it good or evil.

Although man's knowledge of God is an ever-evolving knowledge, the ways of God are fixed. His ways are perfect, and being perfect in His ways, His ways do not change. Yet the Bible portrays a deity who is an evolving deity, one of circumstances whose morality changes with the times.

Prophet: One who interprets the things of God

If one is said to be a prophet of God and evil is done as a result of what he has said is inspired of God, it is then self-evident that what he has said is not inspired of God, but of his own self. God inspires no evil. And evil cannot be the results of what is inspired of God. Whatsoever is inspired of God sows only good. Neither the New Testament nor the Old Testament can be truthfully said to be the inerrant word of God, for both Testaments have been used to justify evil in God's name. Common sense should tell one that God weighs and measures His words more carefully than a man; and thus, the words that He would inspire one to say could not be used for evil, for God would know the effect of His own words upon one generation to another.

I think any good and reasonable person would agree that butchering people is evil. Yet this evil is done in God's name throughout the Bible, and the irony is that many of these very same people unquestioningly believe that God commanded men to do that very evil. Having put all common sense aside they do not realize that if God had wanted the end of a people He would not need men to do the dirty work.

In my writings I often refer to 1 Samuel 15:2-3 as an example of what is perversely said of God. It is by no means the only vile thing the Bible claims of God, nor is it the vilest; but it serves my purpose. Any man who claims that God has personally told him that 1 Samuel 15:2-3 speaks truthfully of God is a liar! And anyone claiming to love one who would command such things is either a liar or is depraved himself.

Dung is dung regardless of where it is found; those who claim to be called of God yet preach that God commanded things such as 1 Samuel 15:2-3 are the self-called. They hinder the truth of God because of their vanity by foolishly thinking that if God had any new thing to say on this matter surely God would have told them first! Many of them know that it was not God who told them to feed the sheep, but would rather continue preaching such things than to have to admit that they have falsely claimed to be called of God.

I have found that the more religious one is the less likely they are to listen to sound reason, or to think logically in matters concerning their religion. Yet maybe through embarrassment or shame they'll be forced to honestly confront what 1 Samuel 15:2-3 is saying of God. For I am convinced that no child of God can truthfully claim to love that perverse one of 1 Samuel 15:2-3, nor can they truthfully claim that God Himself has personally affirmed to them that the things of 1 Samuel 15:2-3 were commanded by Him. The only truthful thing that they can say on this matter is that they have believed it because they are afraid not to, which is the bondage that I preach against.

Know this: It is through false claims made against the goodness of God that others have and are encouraged to justify their own evil in God's name. For those that will willingly believe that God commanded the Hitlerian-like atrocities in 1 Samuel 15:2-3 would do evil themselves.

1 SAMUEL 15:2-3 Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. (3) Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, CHILD AND INFANT, ox and sheep, camels and donkey, and stomp on the ants!

How can any sane person not see the utter depravity of saying God commanded the slaughter of men and women, which of itself is evil enough, but that He even commanded the slaughter of their children? What can be said of the mentality and spirituality of those who will say that mocking 1 Samuel 15:2-3 with my ants is a sin, yet consider it to be righteous of them to believe that God commanded the slaughter of children? What I have mocked and will mock throughout my writings has cried out for generation after generation to be mocked! For who but a fool or a servant of Satan would say that God commanded the butchery of defenseless defeated men, women and children.

How does it serve God that men are taught to think that faith in God requires belief in the unbelievable? One's faith should be in God alone, rather than in what men have said of God. Faith in God does not require one to crucify their mind and deny what is before their very eyes. God is not the God of primitive mumbo jumbo, but of logic and reality. Any belief of God that must be upheld with demands and threats is unbelievable to begin with. And any religion that demands that one cast aside sound thinking in order to believe what they would otherwise consider to be ridiculous is not of God.

Although I am a former Bible-thumping Fundamentalist, I still have more respect for their view of the Bible than those who try and pretend it doesn't really mean what it is says. If one can't be truthful with the obvious they can't be trusted period!

The Bible says what is means and means what it says. In an age of superstition and ignorance what the Bible claims was taught and accepted as fact, not as allegory or metaphors. It is only due to embarrassment that in these latter times that the self-called try and rationalize irrational Biblical claims by calling them allegories or metaphors.

I've not come here to pander to those that have itching ears nor to play-paddy-cakes with the faint hearted, but to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may. For those of you who read these words shall no longer be able to stand before God and claim that no one has ever told you that God is not that wrathful one of bloody sacrifices; that one of primitive minds who is said to have commanded the butchery of children: that perverse one of 1 Samuel 15:2-3; who is the inspirer of things like and 9/11.

Harrington Sites - Revealing the Spiritual duality of the Bible.

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

  • Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
  • guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,837
  • 我美丽的妻子和我。
    • Orthodox Ecclesiology and The World
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Denver
Re:Fools call me a God hater!
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2003, 06:19:37 PM »
Servant Wayne! Party Time! Excellent! Where did Servant Garth go? Has anyone seen him? Bobby?  :smiliedisco1:

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Fools call me a God hater!
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2003, 08:06:36 PM »
Sounds a lot like the sorts of things Marcion said in the 2nd century.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,242
Re:Fools call me a God hater!
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2003, 08:15:58 PM »
I think any good and reasonable person would agree that butchering people is evil.

I think any good and reasonable person would see that the God seen in Scripture is the Lord of the universe, and would interpret the relevant passages with that in mind. Then again, few of us are both good and reasonable.

Offline Seraphim Reeves

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 450
    • An Orthodox Catechism
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2003, 01:48:44 AM »
I think any good and reasonable person would see that the God seen in Scripture is the Lord of the universe, and would interpret the relevant passages with that in mind. Then again, few of us are both good and reasonable.

Well said, Justin.

Part of "faith" is trust (as in "I have faith in him"...iow "I trust him.")  I trust, acknowledging that God's ways are infinitely higher and more complex than those of men, that whatever He does is in accord with His goodness.  Sometimes in Scripture, we get glimpses of this - for example, He commands Abraham to do the unthinkable (immolate his own son, Isaac), yet we are allowed in this case to see the matter through to the end (we see that provision was made, and Isaac did not in fact get killed.)

However, we do not always have things explained to us so clearly.  Such is the case of the "harder sayings" or "harder incidents" detailed in the Holy Scriptures (such as the ban placed upon Canaan, detailed in the book of Joshua.)  For all we know, the innocents who died in Canaan (indeed, irregardless of how, we will all die by God's leave at some time, good or evil) were amongst those given the incomparably greater gift (certainly greater than a few more years in this wretched world) of eternal life by Christ when He descendend into hades?  As for the wicked of Canaan, the Israelites were a judgement upon them (and sent them in a speedier fashion to where they were already headed.)  This is all speculation on my part.  I only bring it up to show that we have no idea of all that is involved in what happened.  The same can be said of the Great Deluge, or the fact that to this very day, bad things happen to good people (and if we believe in an omnipotent and omniscient Lord, these things at least happen by His leave, if not by His outright command.)

The best advice, was that Job received - trust God.  We cannot even begin to fathom the ways of our fellow men, let alone pretend to understand those of the Lord, Who we know to be good.