Author Topic: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s  (Read 3309 times)

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Offline TomS

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Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s

Posted June 23 2007
 
ATHENS Immigrant groups on Friday opened the first formal Islamic prayer site to operate in Athens since rule by the Turks of the Ottoman Empire ended more than 170 years ago.

Plans by Greece's government to build a mosque for tens of thousands of Muslim immigrants living in the capital have stalled, so businessmen in Arab countries financed the downtown cultural center.
 
"This is the first time in all the 35 years I've lived in Greece that we have a proper place to pray," said Naim El-Gandour, the Egyptian-born head of the Muslim Association of Greece. "It's hard for me to describe what's happening. I am overcome with emotion."

More than 1,000 mostly Arab immigrants gathered for the official opening of the cultural center and prayer site, with men in traditional Islamic dress kneeling beside laborers in overalls.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2007, 11:07:41 AM »
*Sigh*  You know what, I don't like it, but I'm not going to rage about it.  Islam is evil.  But if they want to set up a worship place, so be it.  If the people of Greece can't live out Christianity for these folks to see it better, then they're the ones who need help, not the Mohammedeans.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline TomS

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 11:19:31 AM »
The problem is that good does not conquer evil without the shedding of the blood of Christian Saints.

Islam is a cancer on society and must be controlled.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 11:19:48 AM by TomS »

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 11:37:24 AM »
The problem is that good does not conquer evil without the shedding of the blood of Christian Saints.

Islam is a cancer on society and must be controlled. 

And the only cure.... is more cowbell.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 12:20:05 PM »
*Sigh*  You know what, I don't like it, but I'm not going to rage about it.  Islam is evil.  But if they want to set up a worship place, so be it.  If the people of Greece can't live out Christianity for these folks to see it better, then they're the ones who need help, not the Mohammedeans.
I agree with most of what you said here. Maybe this will cause the Athenians and all of Greece to pause and reflect on their sincerity of being *Christian*.
The Fathers on the Holy Mountain, on the other hand, no doubt will be troubled by this announcement.
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Offline GiC

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 12:35:55 PM »
The Original Sin was letting Mohammedans into the country, allowing them a place of worship is quite insignificant in comparison. Greece, and the rest of Europe (as well as various other Western countries), need to take a real stand and prohibit the immigration of Mohammedans. Let them try to survive in the filth of the third world countries they created.
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline TomS

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 01:22:04 PM »
A Muslim is shown praying yesterday in the new Greek-Arabic educational and cultural center in Moschato, southern Athens, the capital’s first mosque. The mosque, based inside a disused factory measuring 800 square meters, has reportedly been funded by a Saudi Arabian donor. Last year, the Education Ministry said a mosque would be built on a large plot of land in Votanikos, central Athens, where Panathinaikos’s new soccer ground is to be built.

Offline Veniamin

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2007, 01:36:04 PM »
And the only cure.... is more cowbell.

Silly me; I thought a JDAM would fix that particular problem.
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Offline GiC

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 02:02:20 PM »
Silly me; I thought a JDAM would fix that particular problem.

Hear, Hear!
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline Jonas Suender

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 06:41:46 PM »
Plans by Greece's government to build a mosque for tens of thousands of Muslim immigrants living in the capital have stalled, so businessmen in Arab countries financed the downtown cultural center.
 
"This is the first time in all the 35 years I've lived in Greece that we have a proper place to pray," said Naim El-Gandour, the Egyptian-born head of the Muslim Association of Greece. "It's hard for me to describe what's happening. I am overcome with emotion."

More than 1,000 mostly Arab immigrants gathered for the official opening of the cultural center and prayer site, with men in traditional Islamic dress kneeling beside laborers in overalls.

A genuine if, perhaps, silly question:  Why doesn't Greece import cheap labor from Lation America?  At least the Latin Americans are Christian. 

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2007, 07:00:03 PM »
A genuine if, perhaps, silly question:  Why doesn't Greece import cheap labor from Lation America?  At least the Latin Americans are Christian. 

Because the Greek government would actually make them learn Greek for them to get a job and a driver's license unlike what los Estados Unidos requires for its immigrants.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 07:00:42 PM by scamandrius »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2007, 10:30:55 PM »
Hurrah for the Muslims! Crazy Greeks.

Now, give us back Halki and the Church of the Holy Wisdom please. Quid pro quo...
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2007, 08:12:23 AM »
The Original Sin was letting Mohammedans into the country, allowing them a place of worship is quite insignificant in comparison. Greece, and the rest of Europe (as well as various other Western countries), need to take a real stand and prohibit the immigration of Mohammedans. Let them try to survive in the filth of the third world countries they created. 

It's not like we didn't try to stop them 650+ years ago when they entered Greece (far before the capital fell).

A genuine if, perhaps, silly question:  Why doesn't Greece import cheap labor from Lation America?  At least the Latin Americans are Christian. 

I didn't see any references to who is building the mosque anywhere... I'm sure they're using cheap labor from Albania, Romania, Bulgaria, and Greece (since these 4 groups make up the major population of cheap laborers in Greece!).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2007, 08:33:28 AM »
I thought "cheap labor" in Greece meant "illegal Albanian immigrant" - the same sort that caused Kosovo's plague.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2007, 09:25:10 AM »
I thought "cheap labor" in Greece meant "illegal Albanian immigrant" - the same sort that caused Kosovo's plague. 

Um, illegal Albanian moslems....
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2007, 09:59:28 AM »
Um, illegal Albanian moslems....

But, of course you are correct. I have Albanian Orthodox in my family and tend to think that Greeks employ the "Romans" definition to them: "They're Christians like us", whereas for an Albanian Muslim they revert to the "Hellenic" mode: "Ξένος!"  :o
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 10:31:51 AM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline CCM08

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2007, 03:51:33 PM »
I wonder where the armory in the "prayer center" is located.
When man declares there is no God he establishes himself as God and man is a terrible god.

Offline Sophie

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2007, 05:56:32 AM »
Hello, everyone, I am new here.

I am Greek, born and bred and Christian Orthodox. I live abroad now.

I think it is both a constitutional right for everyone in Greece and a Christian attitude for those who claim to be Christian to allow and help people practise their religion if by doing it, they do not show disrespect for anyone outside they faith- and yes, there are Muslims who practise with respect. I have lived in two countries outside Greece so far and it is frustrating not being able to worship one´s own religion due to lack of venues.

Muslims are Muslims because they are not because they see Athenians practising their faith in a less than adequate way, so laying judgement on fellow Christians here is a bit besides the point.

I am not going to be quoting every single one of you. I will only say immigration is a far more complicated issue, one with politic,social and economic aspects and their historic counterparts; as you may know I am sure, the third world does not come third only because it can´t run faster. In the past First World Christian countries have done their best to exploit some of these countries´natural wealth and human resources and contributed somewhat to a nowadays well rooted corruption and decadence - not exclusively. As simplistic and naive as this may sound for some of you, I still wonder how you would feel if,for example, forced to leave your Christian homeland to seek a better life in a neighbouring rich Muslim one for lack of other option, you were forced to stay in your boat - wife and kids included - and get back to wherever you came from, simply for being Christian. Prohibition of Muslim immigration was something someone suggested, wasn´t it? Or is the practice of some Muslim countries - banning worship of other religions- so dear to some? If I had to live in a Muslim culture I would still like to practise my religion, I guess I have as much a right, why can´t Muslims do that in Ahens?

And as for Latin American immigrants, they are much closer in culture, religion and geographically to Spain and the U.S. As far as Spain is concerned, it happens to have a very strong economy and strong ties with Central and South America. So much since a lot of the returning immigrants´families came originally from Spain. I cannot imagine why these people would pick a country much smaller than their own or Spain, with a different language, culture and religion altogether that is also much farther and even more expensive to live in, such as Greece.

We do not choose to have immigrants in Greece for need of cheap labour although it does translate into this as well. It may have to do something with "Love thy neighbour", have you thought about this? I do not know what people have in their hearts when they worship, but Greeks apart from Christian, have been slaves, refugees and immigrants ( as well as in other, more prestigious conditions) so I hope to God,we will not be the one to turn people away when they seek refuge, irrespective of their personal condition.Thus,although some of us, may in the eyes of other Christian brothers, be lacking a Christian way of life, I hope that as humans, we preserve the Law of God in our hearts (a law that exist in most people´s hearts), that of doing to people what people want to do to us, that of loving our enemies, that of honour and the one I mentioned in the beginning.  I do not want to sound any more polemic or harsh than I may have already, it would undermine my Christian predisposition, so I´ll leave it at that. In God I trust that he may have mercy on me and show me the error of my ways where they exist.
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Offline Sophie

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2007, 06:27:06 AM »
Correcting myself: doing to people what we want people to do to us...:)
"Thoughts are like airplanes flying in the air. If you ignore them, there is no problem. If you pay attention to them, you create an airport inside your head and permit them to land!" (Priestmonk Christodoulos Aggeloglou, Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain Mount Athos, Greece, 1998,pp. 29-30, 48)

Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 06:54:59 AM »
Καλος ηρθατε (welcome) Sophie!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2007, 06:55:34 AM by ozgeorge »
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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2007, 12:02:26 PM »
"And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men...."
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Offline CCM08

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Re: Greece: Formal Muslim prayer site is Athens' first since 1830s
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2007, 09:53:54 PM »
Christians allow Muslims to seek better lives in the first world.  Muslims reduce people to dhimmi status at best, and at worst open perscution and murder.  The need to try and blame "colonialism" is unfounded in most cases as many of these countries were never western colonies, and it's becoming more than a little weak.  Prohibiting Muslim immigration is just sound policy, Muslims don't do well in minority situations.  Even when they aren't rioting and burning down their government paid for dwellings they refuse to learn native languages and do everything they can to remain both poor and detached from mainstream culture.  You're importing people that have a religion which teaches them non-Mulisms owe them a living.  There are many sources of immigrant labor in the world of people that are much better neighbors than Muslims.  The Chinese, for example, are positive additions to host cultures when they immigrate.
Muslims can practice their religion all they want, they just shouldn't have buildings in the west to do it (and occassionally act as armories and centers for extremist ideology).  If the uber-Muslims can do it to non-Muslims then what's good for the goose is good for the gander.  Muslims in the west should be repressed in the same manner that non-Muslims are in the Muslim world.
When man declares there is no God he establishes himself as God and man is a terrible god.