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Author Topic: Priest practices both Anglicanism and Islam  (Read 20846 times) Average Rating: 0
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scamandrius
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« on: June 06, 2007, 07:28:53 PM »

I suppose that this is the type of religious syncretism the secularists want us to practice so that we are loyal to the Church of our own selves rather than that of Christ.

Notice how she regards her profession of Islam as a maturation of her being in love with Christ.

http://www.ecww.org/publications/Voice/June2007.pdf 

A little more than a year ago, the Rev. Dr. Ann Holmes Redding [page 9] found herself
at the doorway of a new world, Islam, and wasn’t quite sure how she got there.
As she reflected on her journey, she realized Jesus was her guide. Now both a
practicing Muslim and an Episcopal priest, Redding shares her thoughts on how the
two faiths inform each other.

“The way I understand Jesus is compatible with Islam,” Redding explains, “and
although there are Christians and Muslims who think I must convert from one to
the other, the more I go down this path the more excited I am about both Christianity
and Islam.”

Redding credits her upbringing for early exposure to interfaith relationships. She was
baptized by an African Methodist Episcopal minister but the only Sunday school she
attended was Episcopal. She attended a Unitarian youth group in high school when
the Episcopal group disbanded. She was influenced by a cooperative community near
where she grew up that was comprised of mostly Quakers, Unitarians and Jews. Her
father was a prominent civil rights lawyer whose work brought him and the family into contact with people of many faith backgrounds.

After an introduction to a Muslim prayer practice in early 2006, Redding knew
she had been wrestling with a call to Islam. She approached a Muslim woman and
told her so, and the woman replied, “Christianity has been good to you and you to
it, and you don’t have to choose.” That made all the difference in Redding’s choice to
practice Islam.

“What Islam has done for me is shed this light on Christianity and shown for me
anew what a glorious way Christianity is,” she explains. “We Christians, in struggling to express the beauty and dignity of Jesus and the pattern of life he offers, describe him as the ‘only begotten son of God.’ That’s how wonderful he is to us. But that is not literal,” she continues. “When we say Jesus is the only begotten one, we are saying he’s unique in some way. Islam says the same thing. He’s the only human aside from Adam who is directly created by God, and
he’s different from Adam because he has a human mother. So there’s agreement—this
person is unique in his relationship to God.” Christianity also says that we are all part
of the household of God and in essence brothers and sisters of Jesus. Muslims take
the figurative language of “only begotten,” make it concrete and contradict it: God “neither begets nor is begotten.”

“I agree with both because I do want to say that Jesus is unique, and for me, Jesus
is my spiritual master,” Redding says. “Muslims say Mohammed is the most perfect.
Well, it depends on who you fall in love with. I fell in love with Jesus a long time ago
and I’m still in love with Jesus but I’d like to think my relationship with Jesus has
matured.”

She added that what Islam does is take Jesus out of the way of her relationship
with God, “but it doesn’t drop Jesus. I was following Jesus and he led me into Islam,
and he didn’t drop me off at the door. He’s there, too.”


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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2007, 08:02:38 PM »

Well, perhaps she could mature even more in her faith by going and living under sharia law...I'd give her about three months before she got her head lopped off.
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2007, 09:08:28 PM »


 LOL Cheesy. Ain't that the truth!
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2007, 11:33:48 PM »

By thinking she can be both Christian AND Muslim, Dr. Holmes ends up being neither.
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2007, 11:39:42 PM »

Sounds like something that should be part of a traveling circus... Grin
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2007, 11:49:33 PM »

Coo coo.
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2007, 11:54:44 PM »

At first I wondered if this is a case like the Revd David Hart who literally apostasised — formally converted — to Hinduism but somehow (probably by not telling them the whole truth) got his licence in the Diocese of Ely renewed, or if Dr Redding is simply doing what some liberals do, playing at another religion without actually joining.

Then I read the newsletter from the Diocese of Olympia. Yep, she's an apostate. Literally. And obviously she's not hiding it from the bishop - she's in the newsletter bragging about it!

In a way this is not news: since 1966 when James Pike was acquitted of heresy even though he repudiated the Trinity one can deny the teachings of the creeds and be a sitting bishop of the Episcopal Church even though on paper it is still a Christian church. A logical conclusion has been reached, and I wouldn't be surprised if Fr Richard John Neuhaus's point is played out, that when orthodoxy becomes optional it's only a matter of time before it’s banned. (Actually one can argue that this is happening right now.)

Dr R does sound ignorant of Christian theology but one wonders if at some point she had it all explained away leaving the mush she thinks is the Christian position.

Abuses have gone on in churches throughout history. I wonder if Olympia's new bishop will clean up this mess. I wouldn't hold my breath.

I understand the Episcopal ordinary of the Diocese of Utah, Kathryn Tanner Irish, born a Mormon, never really was baptised a Christian. (Mormons aren't Christians so their baptisms don't count according to classic Anglicanism.)
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2007, 12:34:10 AM »

This lady is neither a Christian nor a priest nor a Muslim.

This lady follows a faith never seen nor known on face of the earth before her.

Don't we Orthodox have a word for people who make their own choices regarding faith apart from The Church?
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2007, 09:14:07 AM »

Quote
Well, perhaps she could mature even more in her faith by going and living under sharia law...I'd give her about three months before she got her head lopped off.

I think greek makes an excellent point. Nacho also makes an excellent point. This is like another circus sideshow under the big tent of the episcopal church.
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2007, 09:40:40 AM »

“We Christians, in struggling to express the beauty and dignity of Jesus and the pattern of life he offers, describe him as the ‘only begotten son of God.’ That’s how wonderful he is to us. But that is not literal,” she continues. “When we say Jesus is the only begotten one, we are saying he’s unique in some way. Islam says the same thing. He’s the only human aside from Adam who is directly created by God, and
he’s different from Adam because he has a human mother.
Good one Reverend! What a great way to cover up the fact that one is a scholarly failure ... Rather than do any serious theology and look at what the Church actually said about Arianism, let's go for our 15 minutes of fame by saying the stupidest and most offensive thing we possibly can as a representative of our Church.
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2007, 09:45:35 AM »

"He's [Jesus] the only human aside from adam who is directly created by God..."

This statement sums up her whole screwed up belief system.  She's an Islamo-pseudo Christo, gnostico.  God help the congregation she serves or the spiritually gullible she feeds this stuff to.
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2007, 09:48:00 AM »

Oops sorry, I'm getting my heresies mixed up.  Her label should read Arian Islamo, pseudo Christo, nut case. 
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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2007, 10:31:35 AM »

Between this and the recent story of the two Episcopalian priests who got "married" (both men of course) it is clear that the Episcopalians aren't particular about who they admit to their "priesthood."

 Roll Eyes

Quote
“The way I understand Jesus is compatible with Islam,” Redding explains, “and although there are Christians and Muslims who think I must convert from one to the other, the more I go down this path the more excited I am about both Christianity and Islam.”

I hope she realizes that many (if not most) of those Muslims who think she must convert from one to the other would consider her offense as one justifiably punishable by death. 

What an idiot.
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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2007, 10:36:58 AM »

This reminds me of the Melnyk scandal of a couple years ago.
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2007, 10:44:59 AM »

This reminds me of the Melnyk scandal of a couple years ago.

It says he decided to renounce his Druid conversion within 24 hours - bet that's how long it took him to realize how much it was going to cost him to live on a Druid priest's salary.
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« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2007, 10:50:13 AM »

It says he decided to renounce his Druid conversion within 24 hours - bet that's how long it took him to realize how much it was going to cost him to live on a Druid priest's salary.

 Cheesy

Tina you're probably spot on!
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« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2007, 10:55:01 AM »

It is hard to discern if arrogance, stupidity, or wolfish deceitfulness apply to this individual.
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« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2007, 11:24:21 AM »

Between this and the recent story of the two Episcopalian priests who got "married" (both men of course) it is clear that the Episcopalians aren't particular about who they admit to their "priesthood."

Sigh.  Actually, the Diocese and Bishops can be quite particular about who is allowed in the "Process" and then there's no guarantee that it will lead to seminary and ordination.    What people do afterwards is still part of the Free Will thing.  This woman is not the definition of Anglicanism, she is one individual.

Quote
I hope she realizes that many (if not most) of those Muslims who think she must convert from one to the other would consider her offense as one justifiably punishable by death. 

What an idiot.

Possibly not.  Likely not. She lives in a situation where things are not controlled or stringent.  I suspect that she is not going to move to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.  This seems somewhat syncretist, but calling her names isn't going to convince her to change her mind.

Sigh.

Ebor
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« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2007, 11:26:03 AM »

It is hard to discern if arrogance, stupidity, or wolfish deceitfulness apply to this individual.

If you mean the woman in the article, possibly none of the above.  "wolfish deceitfulness"?  Whom would she be maliciously trying to deceive?  I'm afraid I don't follow.

Ebor
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« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2007, 11:38:58 AM »

It says he decided to renounce his Druid conversion within 24 hours - bet that's how long it took him to realize how much it was going to cost him to live on a Druid priest's salary.

I was there, following the whole unfortunate incident.  William Melnyk at my last knowledge is not an Episcopal Priest. The final renoucing of Orders was from what I know in the winter/spring of 2005.

There was a mess of attempts to cover tracks (hard to do on the 'Net thanks to cached sites) and erasures.  The Bishop of Pennsylvania could not ignore it, it made the papers, there were links and removals of links and ummm weak excuses on part of the ECUSA offical site. Mr. Melnyk stopped serving his parish, I would have to dig up the information, but it is in my mind that the Vestry asked him to step down. Some time later he went back to being a druid and has done some things like writing a novel with Druid and Christian themes.

And to counter such incidents and persons, I could give examples of Anglicans/Episcopalians who don't go that way and do things for the love of Our Lord and His Church. 

With Respect,

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 12:01:32 PM »

If you mean the woman in the article, possibly none of the above.  "wolfish deceitfulness"?  Whom would she be maliciously trying to deceive?  I'm afraid I don't follow.

Ebor
Since this article is proudly published in a segment of the Episcopal church that claims to be "Christian" but is actually anti Christ, I question their validity to claim themselves as "Christian." Whether their all star syncretist is an unwitting dupe I cannot fully determine.
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« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2007, 01:06:33 PM »

I had to reread this article a couple of times just to make sure it wasn't full of the shock I thought it had when I first read it.  Now, I think the article and this woman are just funny.  My personal favorite quote:

When we say Jesus is the only begotten one, we are saying he’s unique in some way.

Only-begotten is now synonymous with unique.  I can't wait to try that out on one of my students.  "Katie, you're an only-begotten student."   Cheesy

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« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2007, 01:09:03 PM »

I wasn't sure where poor Bill Melnyk ended up though I was fairly sure he was no longer an active Episcopal priest and suspected he'd reverted to paganism. Yes, that was apostasy. Seems more real, though, rightly or wrongly, when somebody converts to a large, recognised, centuries-old religion and not something as modern and made-up as neo-paganism.

Incidentally his wife, Glyn, who likewise was caught writing pagan things online (her posts on a message board and things she co-wrote with him), is still the rector of St Francis, Malvern. I think she recanted like him but unlike him she stuck with that, at least publicly, and of course didn't leave the ministry.

I wondered when I read the news of Dr Redding how well a woman preaching the gospel of gay weddings (I don't know if Dr R does that BTW) would go over in Riyadh or Kabul.  Tongue

But it's a good point - she seems to have undergone the conversion ceremony to Islam but in many ways is still more an apostate Christian playing at Islam than a sincere convert. Put another way she's both a bad Christian and a bad Muslim.

Fr Hart's case, in which he said he could still celebrate the Eucharist, makes more sense in his new faith, which is by nature syncretistic. His doing so after conversion would be blasphemous according to Christianity but perfectly sensible to a Hindu. (He also put his money where his mouth is and moved to India to become a real Hindu.)

Considering how Christianity and Islam are mutuallly exclusive - I understand there's some nasty stuff against the Trinity in the Koran - again I get the impression this is a thoroughly Western, First World dilettante playing games with religion.
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« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2007, 01:20:11 PM »

I believe Mr. Melnyk/Oakwyse got in to hot water more over some questionable use of parish finances than the Druidry.  As noted, his wife is still pastor of St. Francis in the Fields.
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« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2007, 03:36:05 PM »

It is impossible to practice both Chistianity and Islam, like serving two masters.  It's simple - a Christian who beomes a Muslim is no longer a Christian and is a Muslim, plain and simple.   Like the millions and millions of apostates since the rise of Islam.  Maybe "Anglicanism" has special rules!
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« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2007, 03:43:24 PM »

It's too bad she believes in discrimination. Why did she leave out the rest of the world's great religions?  Wink
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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2007, 03:55:28 PM »

I believe Mr. Melnyk/Oakwyse got in to hot water more over some questionable use of parish finances than the Druidry.  As noted, his wife is still pastor of St. Francis in the Fields.

The financial matter was nothing like robbing the poor box or embezzling. From what I recall it was a matter of taking donations to buy some land near/in Glastonbury for a druidic group/site and having the checks sent to his Discretionary Fund, an amount of money that Anglican parishs have for the priest to use for things like emergency charity and the like. Questionable, yes, but not the big reason people were upset from what I read.

I'm sorry, but just because it's some Anglicans doesn't mean that money/finance is what is the most important thing. Faith and belief *do* matter.   Sad

Ebor
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2007, 04:16:28 PM »

I wasn't sure where poor Bill Melnyk ended up though I was fairly sure he was no longer an active Episcopal priest and suspected he'd reverted to paganism. Yes, that was apostasy. Seems more real, though, rightly or wrongly, when somebody converts to a large, recognised, centuries-old religion and not something as modern and made-up as neo-paganism.

He's still around, though one thing I've read indicates that he's stopped being the head of a Druid Group as well.  There is a reference to him going on a more solitary path.  In some ways and views the "Druidism" isn't modern, but harkening back to old pre-Christian/Celtic roots.  ymmv.

Quote
I wondered when I read the news of Dr Redding how well a woman preaching the gospel of gay weddings (I don't know if Dr R does that BTW) would go over in Riyadh or Kabul.  Tongue

I don't have to wonder.  I followed "The Religious Policeman" blog when the author was still putting up new material.  I have a good idea what the "Muttawa" or "Taliban" would do, but then again in such places women do not have much public liberty to begin with.   Undecided

Quote
Fr Hart's case, in which he said he could still celebrate the Eucharist, makes more sense in his new faith, which is by nature syncretistic. His doing so after conversion would be blasphemous according to Christianity but perfectly sensible to a Hindu. (He also put his money where his mouth is and moved to India to become a real Hindu.)

As I recall from the story last Fall, Mr. Hart had done this all on his own and when his Bishop found out, let's just say that he was not amused, nor supportive.

Quote
Considering how Christianity and Islam are mutuallly exclusive - I understand there's some nasty stuff against the Trinity in the Koran - again I get the impression this is a thoroughly Western, First World dilettante playing games with religion.

It's possible.  I'm not going to try to psychologically analyze a person I've never met.  I will say that I wonder if she would wear a hijab or niqab or burhka in this country (I doubt the latter two) or accept being a plural wife or some of the other circumstances that muslim women have imposed in some times and places.

Ebor
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2007, 04:20:03 PM »

Maybe "Anglicanism" has special rules!

 Roll Eyes  Sad

I'm sorry, but I'm tired and worn and pot-shots like this at a group over the words of one are wearisome. 

 "I thank thee that I am not like that Anglican over there...."
 Sad

Ebor
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2007, 04:29:07 PM »

Since this article is proudly published in a segment of the Episcopal church that claims to be "Christian" but is actually anti Christ, I question their validity to claim themselves as "Christian." Whether their all star syncretist is an unwitting dupe I cannot fully determine.

That is your reading that there is "pride" in the publishing. It is a diocesan publication.  It carries stories about peole in the diocese for a variety of reasons.  If that diocese is like any of the ones I know, there are going to be some people who are, shall we say, not in agreement with the lady's beliefs.  I do not think that the Bishop is going to be ordering Arabic lessons in all of his parishes.

Do you know any people personally in that diocese that you can with sureness declare them to be "anti Christ"?
 Undecided

Grimly,

Ebor
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« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2007, 04:40:40 PM »

If you mean the woman in the article, possibly none of the above.  "wolfish deceitfulness"?  Whom would she be maliciously trying to deceive?  I'm afraid I don't follow.

Ebor

Who is she trying to deceive?  Try everyone who reads that article and everyone to whom she preaches her "you can be a practicing Muslim and an Episcopal priest" mantra.  Clearly this woman is not stupid.  Thus I believe we are left with little choice but to believe that she is being willfully dishonest when she says that Christianity (which means you believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ the only Son of God) and Islam (which expressly denies the Divinity of Jesus Christ and states without doubt that He is not the Son of God) are compatible.

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« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2007, 05:26:21 PM »

From reading the article, not knowing the lady personally, it seems to me that she is not being "willfully dishonest", she really does believe what she says, however contradictory and illogical it seems to others.  Perhaps because I have known others such as some Unitarians who do not believe that Jesus is God, but a very special teacher/example/man I can understand her thoughts at least partially, even though I do not agree with them.

I would have to read it again, but I have my doubts that the lady had a cure/parish/mission of her own.

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« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2007, 05:50:21 PM »

I would have to read it again, but I have my doubts that the lady had a cure/parish/mission of her own.
Dr. Ann Holmes Redding claims she is the Director of Faith Formation and Renewal at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral in Seattle, Washington. (http://www.zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=431650996)

This title of hers appears on a Cathedral Bulletin:
See www.saintmarks.org/Publications/Bulletins/2007%20Bulletins/020407.pdf p19

I think that a letter to her Bishop is in order, and would probably be best coming from one of the Episcopalian Faithful [glances at Ebor] Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2007, 06:26:12 PM »

Ah, thank you OzGeorge.  It is as I was suspecting.  She has a diocesan office, not a parish. 

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« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2007, 06:32:41 PM »

Ah, thank you OzGeorge.  It is as I was suspecting.  She has a diocesan office, not a parish. 

Somehow knowing that she is the director of faith formation for her diocese rather than a parish priest isn't much of a comfort.  She is engaging in heretical behaviour and her church is allowing it to happen.  Sorry.  I just can't see this as a good thing.  And I realize that one cannot judge the entire ECUSA by the actions of one or two people.  But between Bishop Spong, the two priests who got "married" and now the priest who also happens to be a practicing Muslim ... I think the ECUSA has some serious problems.
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« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2007, 06:45:02 PM »

Somehow knowing that she is the director of faith formation for her diocese rather than a parish priest isn't much of a comfort.
Oh, I don't know. People tend to get those phoney boloney types of "positions" because they get kicked up there by their peers, none of whom can work with them. People become "directors" because no one can trust them to even be in charge of a chicken coup.
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« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2007, 09:19:02 PM »

Oh, I don't know. People tend to get those phoney boloney types of "positions" because they get kicked up there by their peers, none of whom can work with them. People become "directors" because no one can trust them to even be in charge of a chicken coup.

Indeed, that can often be the case.. the "Peter Principle" in action, maybe. Smiley

"in a hierarchically structured administration, people tend to be promoted up to their "level of incompetence" "
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/PETERPR.html


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« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2007, 10:29:55 PM »

Oh, I don't know. People tend to get those phoney boloney types of "positions" because they get kicked up there by their peers, none of whom can work with them. People become "directors" because no one can trust them to even be in charge of a chicken coup.

Isn't this the Dilbert Principle of Middle Management?  Cheesy  A business can't have an incompetent salesman driving customers away, yet they can't fire this person, and this person would destroy the company if promoted to upper-level management.  So they make this incompetent bozo (think pointy-haired boss) a mid-level manager.  (Thank you, Scott Adams.)
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« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2007, 10:35:34 PM »

Does anyone remember the Black activist of the 60's/70's - he might have been a black panther and he converted to Christianity during the Jesus Movement of the early 70's but by the mid-70's added some Nation of Islam and was promoting a new religion he coined Chrislam?

I read an interview with him in the old Spiritual Counterfeits Project newsletter (anyone remember them? - they were a real good cult exposing ministry out of Berkley, Cali)

It wasn't Stokley Carmichael, maybe Huey Newton? (or, am I getting that confused in my memory with Huey Lewis? - who became neither a Jesus Freak nor Muslim, merely a has-been, albeit a rich one)   Undecided
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« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2007, 03:38:19 AM »

Coming from an organization (I would have to hold my breath to call it an actual christian denomination at this point) that has gone from ordaining women priest to active homosexuals, is any of this buffoonery any surprise anymore? Maybe one of the U2 masses inspired her enough to venture out and try new things. Maybe she was inspired by one of the gay priest who gave an arousing (sorry, couldn't resist  Lips Sealed ) homily on the virtues of the Islamic faith. Maybe she was reading one of Spong's books and had an epiphany....or maybe, just maybe... haha  Cheesy
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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2007, 08:10:29 AM »

I did a google search - it was Eldridge Cleaver. He fled the US because of federal charges against him, then abruptly returned to the US in 1975, turned himself in, the charges were dropped. Life as an ex-patriot changed him - he became outspokenly anti-communist (from having lived in some communist countries while on the run) and became a born again Christian.

It was after this that he flirted with Chrislam* (he didn't invent this syncretism, some guy in Nigeria did). Later he fell into drugs, had alot of problems in the 80's. In the early 90's got clean and returned to Christianity and died in 1998.

* almost positive it was him that did this - how many radical black panthers had evangelical turn-arounds at the time, that would have received widespread attention in evangelical publications

I think that Chrislam, although entirely heretical and apostaticized from both religions' perspective, is a more well thought out and serious attempt than the mushy fluff this chick is presenting. Both are whacko, but this is just so stupid and trendy as to be laughable if not for the fact that the upper middle class yuppies she likely "ministers" to (who also are pseudo-intellectual, polically liberal and all too PC) probably eat this crap up like flies on horse-   .

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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2007, 09:50:45 AM »

That is your reading that there is "pride" in the publishing. It is a diocesan publication.  It carries stories about peole in the diocese for a variety of reasons.  If that diocese is like any of the ones I know, there are going to be some people who are, shall we say, not in agreement with the lady's beliefs.  I do not think that the Bishop is going to be ordering Arabic lessons in all of his parishes.

Do you know any people personally in that diocese that you can with sureness declare them to be "anti Christ"?
 :-\Didn't say that any of the people of the diocese are anti Christ but that the diocese itself is anti Christ to endorse apostacy. Any Christian communion calling itself such should have any minister defrocked for embracing an anti Christian faith; is this not just common sense? I have communicated to an anguished Episcopalian blogger (and I should talk to more) offering the Western rite of the Orthodoxy under the Antiochian archdiocese as an option; he declined and said the same problems will probably come to the Orthodox church too (look at the move to alter the Divine Liturgy on another thread). This woman is under severe delusion but so were Arius and Cerinthus and she needs to be prayed for. Sorry the consequences of what she is doing and its publication is dhimmitude which is unhealthy for Orthodox, Catholic, or Protestant Christians.

Grimly,

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« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2007, 10:59:40 AM »

Somehow knowing that she is the director of faith formation for her diocese rather than a parish priest isn't much of a comfort.  She is engaging in heretical behaviour and her church is allowing it to happen.  Sorry.  I just can't see this as a good thing. 

I never said that it was a good thing.  I don't have any contacts with that diocese, so I know little about it and it's working.  However, I think it quite likely that this story could lead to the lady in question not holding her post for a long time or for there to be some furor or at least questioning from some of the people in it.  I haven't checked the Episcopal/Anglican Blogosphere on it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's already being looked at.

Quote
And I realize that one cannot judge the entire ECUSA by the actions of one or two people.  But between Bishop Spong, the two priests who got "married" and now the priest who also happens to be a practicing Muslim ... I think the ECUSA has some serious problems.

But those stories get the press.  Human beings often enjoy other's misfortunes and pointing at them. It's easier then examining one's own self/group/etc  maybe.

Other Churches have serious problems as well, as may be read about in the papers, on the 'Net and on the sites of organizations of people in those Churches who are calling for oversight of funds, honestly in dealing with abuses and other matters.  One might hope that those who are not members of them could try to avoid pointing them out with much schadenfreude.
 Undecided

I hope that it is not out of line, nor against forum rules to offer another Anglican as a counter example from 1965, not as the only example but the first one that came to my head.

Jonathan Myrick Daniels, Seminarian, who went down to Alabama for the Civil Rights Movement because he belived that God called him to go and serve other human beings as well.  Eventually he pushed a young black woman out of the way of a white man's gun and took the shot himself.  He died instantly to save another Human Being.  He was Faithful to the end.
http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/228.html

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« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2007, 11:11:04 AM »

I did a google search - it was Eldridge Cleaver. He fled the US because of federal charges against him, then abruptly returned to the US in 1975, turned himself in, the charges were dropped. Life as an ex-patriot changed him - he became outspokenly anti-communist (from having lived in some communist countries while on the run) and became a born again Christian.

Interesting information.  I didn't know about that.  Thank you for posting it.

Quote
....this chick....

While the woman's views are contradictory, illogical and not in line with creedal Christianity, is it helpful to show disdain by referring an adult woman as a "chick"?  I'm sorry, but that is a personal epithet which does not deal with the lady's actual words, actions and ideas.  Sad

Quote
but this is just so stupid and trendy as to be laughable if not for the fact that the upper middle class yuppies she likely "ministers" to (who also are pseudo-intellectual, polically liberal and all too PC) probably eat this crap up like flies on horse-   .

You do not know the people involved nor what the lady in question actually does?  Would someone from that diocese coming here find such scornful words be liable to listen to other opinions?  They are still Human Beings made by God in His image; you do not know them yet label them in highly negative ways.  Would you call people that to their faces, one wonders.

I'm sorry, I'm tired.

Ebor
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« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2007, 11:17:09 AM »

This is just starting to hit some of the Blogosphere.

Even on the 'Net it takes a bit of time for news to travel.

Ebor
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