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Author Topic: Dating the Flood & Egypt?  (Read 1830 times) Average Rating: 0
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Didymus
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« on: June 04, 2007, 09:32:44 AM »

Firstly, please forgive me if this is in the wrong forum but I wasn't sure where to put it.

Somebody said to me the other day that he did not believe in the Great Flood because archeology showed that the Egyptian kingdom would have been around before and after it.
From what I've found online, this is not the case when one refers to the Septuagint.

As we all know the Egyptians are the children's of Noah's grandson Mizraim the son of Ham, I was hoping that somebody might be able to give me more information regarding this.

May I please ask if any Copt (or anyone else) might have some ancient information regarding Egypt's early rulers?

Any other discussion on this topic would be appreciated also as I've seen little of it here and, as such, am not completely sure what everyone believe. (Although I'm fairly sure the Orthodox would be pretty consistant.)

Thank you and please pray for us, Didymus.
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2007, 06:58:38 PM »

I have read some who have hypothesized that the entire surface of the earth was covered by water some point prior to the development of Eukaryotic cellular organisms which was about 1.5 billion years ago...dont know how this fits with the development of the Egyptian kingdom though.

Reminds me of a biology question our administrator Fr. Chris once presented to me:

Create life. Estimate the differences in subsequent human culture if this form of life had developed 500 million years earlier, with special attention to its probable effect on the English Parliamentary System circa 1750. Prove your thesis.

Wink
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FrChris
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2007, 07:25:54 PM »

GiC,

Do you still have that quiz? I've lost my copy, and if you have it I'd love get it back especially since I'm preparing a class of catechumens in the fall---I'd love to start them out on this pre-test!

Didymus,

Unfortunately my information on early Egyptian rulers and their approximate dates of reign, along with comparisons of approximate dates for the Great Flood of Noah (along with the juxtaposition of other Middle Eastern Flood accounts such as are found among the Sumerians) are inconveniently located 650 miles from where I currently live.

However, I will enjoy following this debate!
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2007, 08:45:15 PM »

Click on the "flood" tag, below, to get a couple of other discussions on this topic.
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Didymus
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2007, 03:34:04 AM »

FrChris, when you just happen to be 650 miles from where you currently live, would you mind picking up that information for me please? Thank you.

Salpy, thanks for the link. As an Australian I understand that animals vary around the world but I see this as natural selection. If an animal can't survive somewhere then it dies out. Is it not true that kangaroo fossils have been found in South America for example? Yet there are none there now (except maybe imported ones in zoos).
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2007, 06:02:11 AM »

Firstly, please forgive me if this is in the wrong forum but I wasn't sure where to put it.

Somebody said to me the other day that he did not believe in the Great Flood because archeology showed that the Egyptian kingdom would have been around before and after it.
From what I've found online, this is not the case when one refers to the Septuagint.

As we all know the Egyptians are the children's of Noah's grandson Mizraim the son of Ham, I was hoping that somebody might be able to give me more information regarding this.

May I please ask if any Copt (or anyone else) might have some ancient information regarding Egypt's early rulers?

Any other discussion on this topic would be appreciated also as I've seen little of it here and, as such, am not completely sure what everyone believe. (Although I'm fairly sure the Orthodox would be pretty consistant.)

Thank you and please pray for us, Didymus.

http://knowledge.co.uk/sis/ancient.htm
Ancient History as taught today is a disaster area. Nothing fits convincingly together. The development of the arts, cultures and technologies from earliest times shows inexplicable incongruities. Art historians and archaeologists are in disarray. Why? Because the chronology of the first and second millennium BC is badly wrong.  How did this disaster happen? As accident investigators well know, the sequence of events leading up to major disasters is invariably a sequence of highly unlikely and unexpected happenings and coincidences. These conspire, often in chances of many millions to one against, to cause the disaster. Ancient historian revisionists believe the real disaster for ancient history is the conventional chronology of ancient Egypt, referred to as the CC throughout the rest of this paper. This has been assumed correct, and used directly or indirectly to date nearly all the other early civilisations throughout Europe and the Near East. Such is the measure of control exerted by today's academic establishment that they would not tolerate a revisionist movement from within. So interested outsiders, including some brilliant scholars and innovative thinkers, who call themselves ancient history revisionists, are having to act as the accident investigators for this disaster. They are investigating all the relevant evidence, with painstaking thoroughness, to discover and expose all the events and unlucky coincidences that led to the adoption of the CC.
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2007, 11:18:31 AM »

Not trying to be difficult here, but the link in the previous post and the quote from it are from a group that would seem to follow Immanuel Velikovsky.  I would not take it's opinions unquestioned or without finding out the qualifications of the writer and the historical documentation.

 Undecided

Ebor
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2007, 11:27:43 PM »

Not trying to be difficult here, but the link in the previous post and the quote from it are from a group that would seem to follow Immanuel Velikovsky.  I would not take it's opinions unquestioned or without finding out the qualifications of the writer and the historical documentation.

There is no shame in accepting some of Velikovsky's ideas (I for one believe that the universe is governed by electricity, not gravity.  See http://www.holoscience.com/synopsis.php?page=2).

http://knowledge.co.uk/sis/ancient.htm:
The ruthless and shameful attempts by leading Harvard academics to condemn the book as heretical and to ridicule its author only heightened worldwide public interest in the book. It was this interest, and a recognition that the many brilliant ideas postulated by Velikovsky were of sufficient importance to deserve further study and debate, which in the UK led eventually in 1974 to the formation of the SIS.

Especially if these ideas restore the credibility of ancient records, i.e. the Old Testament.

By accepting that the theoretical foundation of today's Egyptian chronology is wrong, and by accepting instead the incontrovertible evidence of archaeology, all the problems of the Dark Ages could be resolved at a stroke. Millions of pounds of taxpayer's money could then be saved, along with the countless hours of talented scholars who waste their time and talents trying to resolve the irresolvable. The truth about ancient history and the development of culture and technologies could then at last be properly understood. The credibility of many of the wonderful records of ancient times, including those contained within the Old Testament, would also start to be restored.

In addition, the article mentions many modern-day revisionists from David Rohl to Jesse Lasken.

So it's not just Velikovsky, you see.  Wink
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2007, 10:42:35 AM »

David Rohl rejects Velikovsky's chronology, according to one article I found.  So there isn't a common agreement on that even amoung those who think that the present time-lines are not accurate.

Velikovsky was trained as a medical doctor and psychiatrist.  His ideas about the planets in our solar system and their moving close to each other then away, as opposed to keeping to their orbits, as well as that Earth was once orbiting Saturn when it was a sort of star are highly questionable from a physics/celestial mechanics angle.  Then there's his idea that Pharoah Akhenaten was also Oedipus. 

I merely want to point out that this source you provided is not 1) the only answer or 2) even the more widely accepted/scholarly/historical one.

Ebor
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2007, 11:00:48 AM »

Twenty-some years ago I devoured Velikovsky (Demetri sheepishly admits) and only found value in his last work - Mankind in Amnesia (I think) which dealt with his real argument of a collective amnesia. This seemed more in the line of his discipline to me. The early works were fun reading, but...hardly "science". Although 'Peoples of the Sea' was an interesting view.

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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2007, 11:21:56 AM »

Twenty-some years ago I devoured Velikovsky (Demetri sheepishly admits) and only found value in his last work - Mankind in Amnesia (I think) which dealt with his real argument of a collective amnesia. This seemed more in the line of his discipline to me. The early works were fun reading, but...hardly "science". Although 'Peoples of the Sea' was an interesting view.

Αριστοκλής

Oh, you don't have to be sheepish about it.  It's good to learn about things, even if some of the things are umm odd.  Then you 1) know about other ideas even if they're wrong and 2) it can sharpen your understanding of good information, ideas and data.   

Could "Mankind in Amnesia" be more soundly based since he was trained in medicine and psychology/psychiatry while he wasn't in Physics and archeology?

Ebor
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2007, 12:39:54 PM »

David Rohl rejects Velikovsky's chronology, according to one article I found.  So there isn't a common agreement on that even amoung those who think that the present time-lines are not accurate.

I merely want to point out that this source you provided is not 1) the only answer or 2) even the more widely accepted/scholarly/historical one.

You're presenting a false dichotomy.  The article does not state that Velikovsky's chronology is the correct one; it merely points out that the conventional chronology of ancient Egypt is wrong.  That is to say, rejecting the conventional chronology does not mean acceptance of Velikovsky's chronology.
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Didymus
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« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2007, 12:50:53 PM »

Thanks for the info. but it is rather long.

Could anybody summerise it in a few paragraphs please?
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 09:13:20 AM »

Maybe it would be helpful in figuring things out, if you could please post when roughly you think the Flood happened re what century/years BC.  Then information and different people's ideas of the Egyptian chronology could be looked at. 

Ebor
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Tags: Septuagint  Noah Flood  Egypt 
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