Author Topic: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?  (Read 1781 times)

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Offline serb1389

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Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« on: June 02, 2007, 11:32:54 AM »
I heard somewhere, or read somewhere, that it is NOT OK for two bishops to be commemorated in the same service/breath. 

For example, the priest commemmorates the Patriarch and then the local bishop. 

Firstly, is the example OK? 

Second, why or why not? 

Thanks! 
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Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2007, 11:39:17 AM »
The text of the Litany of the Fathers according to the official Liturgical texts of the Coptic Church encourage so:

"That which you have purchased with the Honoured blood of Your Christ. Preserve her in peace, and all the Orthodox Bishops who are in her. Foremost, remember O Lord, our blessed Father, the honoured Archbishop and Patriarch [insert name] and his spiritual brothers [insert names of patriarchs of other Sees], and his partner in the Apostolic ministry, our Bishop Abba [insert name]."

Are your liturgical texts similar at all in that regard?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 11:42:27 AM by EkhristosAnesti »
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2007, 11:48:24 AM »
I'm not sure if this is where serb1389 read it, but you will find an article on the protocol for commemorating the prelate on the official website of the Ecumenical Patriarchate:
http://www.ec-patr.org/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=290&tla=en
« Last Edit: June 02, 2007, 11:48:48 AM by ozgeorge »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2007, 12:32:16 PM »
I'm not sure if this is where serb1389 read it, but you will find an article on the protocol for commemorating the prelate on the official website of the Ecumenical Patriarchate:
http://www.ec-patr.org/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=290&tla=en

Having read this article and recalled some of my ad hoc conversations with clergy where this subject came up, I do understand that only the local bishop is to be commemorated in the petitions of the standard non-hierarchical liturgy; however, the OCA has mandated that the Metropolitan also be commemorated in every liturgy.  Is this correct?  Probably not.  My priest doesn't seem to think so.  Maybe it's some vestige of synodal mentality from when the American Metropolia was under the jurisdiction of the Russian Synod and authority in the Russian Church was very centralized.
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Offline serb1389

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2007, 02:08:30 PM »
The text of the Litany of the Fathers according to the official Liturgical texts of the Coptic Church encourage so:

"That which you have purchased with the Honoured blood of Your Christ. Preserve her in peace, and all the Orthodox Bishops who are in her. Foremost, remember O Lord, our blessed Father, the honoured Archbishop and Patriarch [insert name] and his spiritual brothers [insert names of patriarchs of other Sees], and his partner in the Apostolic ministry, our Bishop Abba [insert name]."

Are your liturgical texts similar at all in that regard?

Without having the time to look up the EXACT text, I know for sure that we do not commemorate the middle part...random bishops.  The Patriarch and local bishop are for sure though.  They are definitely in the text...as I remember it. 

As a general note in the Slavic churches, which includes the OCA, we ALWAYS commemorate the higher bishop and the local bishop.  This is why I brought up the question. 

In the GOA they do not do this.  Only when a bishop is SERVING is the Patriarch and other bishops commemorated.  Otherwise its just 1 bishop at all times, by the priest. 

I'm just trying to figure out where this came from and why the difference exists.
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Offline Starlight

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2007, 11:41:03 PM »
Ukrainian tradition (sometimes changed for various reasons now):
All Hierarchy above (it means the Patriarch, the Exarch if applicable, the Local Bishop, the Auixliary Bishop, if applicable, for example when the latter is a president of a seminary or an abbot of a monastery).
Also, if other Hierarchs serve, concelebrate or even just present in a church during the service - they are commemorated as well. If these belong to another Local Orthodox Church (canonical, of course) that does not matter.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 12:14:51 PM »
however, the OCA has mandated that the Metropolitan also be commemorated in every liturgy.  Is this correct?  Probably not.  My priest doesn't seem to think so.  Maybe it's some vestige of synodal mentality from when the American Metropolia was under the jurisdiction of the Russian Synod and authority in the Russian Church was very centralized. 

In the "old days" the GOA commemorated the Archbishop and the local bishop; of course, at the time the local bishops were not seen as "ruling bishops," and thus the Archbishop was the only Bishop-in-place (the others were auxillary).  When the diocese were formed and bishops were set over them in 1977-79, the practice of commemorating the Archbishop remained (probably as a sign of national unity, who knows...).

Technically, there should only be one bishop commemorated in the liturgy, and two if that bishop is present.  If he's not present, then you only commemorate the diocesan bishop.  If he is, then you commemorate him, and he commemorates the president of the Synod that the diocese is directly part of.  Only the heads of the Autocephalous churches commemorate multiple bishops.

So your practice in the OCA (and our old practice in the GOA, which has been discontinued since the late 90's) is actually incorrect, but you're following the directions of your Synod, so it's o.k.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 12:33:38 PM »
Interesting. I have seen in ACROD that Met. Nicholas and the EP are commemorated every Divine Liturgy, but if an hierarchical Divine Liturgy is celebrated Archbishop Dimitrios and the EP are. Makes sense - sort of...

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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 01:50:26 PM »
It's a strange situation, indeed. 
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
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Offline Tamara

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 02:09:46 PM »
In the Antiochian Orthodox churches I attend, we always commemorate our diocesan bishop and our Metropolitan.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Is it OK for two bishops to be commemorated in Liturgy?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2007, 10:58:29 AM »
The text of the Litany of the Fathers according to the official Liturgical texts of the Coptic Church encourage so:

"That which you have purchased with the Honoured blood of Your Christ. Preserve her in peace, and all the Orthodox Bishops who are in her. Foremost, remember O Lord, our blessed Father, the honoured Archbishop and Patriarch [insert name] and his spiritual brothers [insert names of patriarchs of other Sees], and his partner in the Apostolic ministry, our Bishop Abba [insert name]."

Are your liturgical texts similar at all in that regard?

I believe the Patriarchs of other Sees are only commemorated if it is a Patriarchal liturgy (i.e. where the celebrant does not have a more senior bishop to commemorate).