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Poll
Question: Which jurisdiction has the most converts ?
Antiochians - 14 (51.9%)
Greeks - 8 (29.6%)
OCA - 5 (18.5%)
Total Voters: 27

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Author Topic: "The Orthodox Church"  (Read 1306 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« on: May 12, 2003, 06:16:25 PM »

I'm sure I know which one will win but I wanted to open up a discussion about the various "intros" to Orthodoxy by this title.  I like Ware's revised edition the most, but I really enjoyed the clear presentation in Meyendorff's work (despite many, many typos!)

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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2003, 06:27:49 PM »

I'm reading Ware's revised version right now, but I'm only on the various events in church history. It seems like a good intro to Orthodoxy and very accessible to everyone. I believe a lot of people on this board have also commented on the book previously. How about an OC.net review?

Matt
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 01:35:23 PM »

I vote for The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to its History, Doctrine, and Spiritual Culture by Fr. John Anthony McGuckin.

Oh, and regarding the poll, I think the Antiochians have the highest percentage of converts, but that the GOA has the highest total number of converts (due to marriages more than anything else).

^..^
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 01:57:52 PM »

Are you bored? You could help me cleaning my apartment. There's some dishes that should be taken care of.
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 02:20:39 PM »

Qui ex Frobie Clintioque procedit...
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 02:21:54 PM »

Are you bored? You could help me cleaning my apartment. There's some dishes that should be taken care of.

Not bored at all Smiley I have a ton of stuff to do...

Though I'm glad you posted here, because I just noticed a mistake in my last post. It should have said: "I think the Antiochians have the highest percentage of converts as part of their total membership" or something along those lines.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2013, 02:28:36 PM »

Pretty sure the Greeks win by a mile.
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2013, 04:01:49 PM »

Kallistos Ware's latest version implicitly condones birth control and suggests that we're open to ordaining women in the future, so many have become uncomfortable with his writings in recent years.
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2013, 04:04:07 PM »

Kallistos Ware's latest version implicitly condones birth control

[source]
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2013, 04:17:57 PM »

I have not had the opportunity to read  Fr. McGuckin's work yet.  I did read Metropolitan Kallistos Ware's work a few years ago and liked it a lot.  I do not remember the birth control or ordination issues being in the work I read.    I have no clue which jurisdiction has the most converts.  The Church is not only about numbers.
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2013, 04:42:22 PM »

Kallistos Ware's latest version implicitly condones birth control

[source]
It's not a huge part of the discussion in the book, but somewhere toward the end he discusses how the pastoral approach to birth control has somewhat softened in recent years.

EDIT: Here's the quote:

Quote
The use of contraceptives and other devices for birth control is on the whole strongly discouraged in the Orthodox Church. Some bishops and theologians altogether condemn the employment of such methods. Others, however, have recently begun to adopt a less strict position, and urge that the question is best left to the discretion of each individual couple, in consultation with the spiritual father.
Source.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 04:43:25 PM by Agabus » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2013, 05:20:16 PM »

I've read that passage. It doesn't "condone" birth control. It suggests that it is discouraged or that you should talk to your priest about it. Nothing shocking there.
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2013, 11:20:52 PM »

I've read that passage. It doesn't "condone" birth control. It suggests that it is discouraged or that you should talk to your priest about it. Nothing shocking there.

It says that it is at the discretion of each individual couple, which suggests that they can personally decide to use birth control and consider consulting their priest about it. And I used the words "implicitly condones", which is exactly what it does. Read it again.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 11:21:55 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2013, 11:37:42 PM »

"consider consulting"
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 12:21:57 AM »

Kallistos Ware's latest version implicitly condones birth control and suggests that we're open to ordaining women in the future, so many have become uncomfortable with his writings in recent years.
Not sure where you got the information for birth control, but there were women deacons in the Church so I'm confused with the problem.  If he said they should be priests I could understand.
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2013, 12:23:58 AM »

I've read that passage. It doesn't "condone" birth control. It suggests that it is discouraged or that you should talk to your priest about it. Nothing shocking there.
It also places the greatest responsibility on the priest to provide proper guidance.  If they do, the end result will be the same.
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2013, 05:51:12 AM »

I've read that passage. It doesn't "condone" birth control. It suggests that it is discouraged or that you should talk to your priest about it. Nothing shocking there.

It says that it is at the discretion of each individual couple, which suggests that they can personally decide to use birth control and consider consulting their priest about it. And I used the words "implicitly condones", which is exactly what it does. Read it again.

Others, however, have recently begun to adopt a less strict position, and urge that the question is best left to the discretion of each individual couple, in consultation with the spiritual father.

Met. Ware doesn't suggests that the consulting of the spiritual father is optional. Quite the contrary, in fact. And even then
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 05:51:30 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

Odi profanum vulgus et arceo

"J'ai pour les institutions démocratiques un goût de tête, mais je suis aristocrate par instinct"
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2013, 09:43:17 AM »

While it's not at the absurd numbers it was when I resurrected the thread, I'm surprised the Antiochians are still well ahead in this poll. The Greeks have more sub deacons named Bill than the Antiochians have members.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 09:43:36 AM by Asteriktos » Logged

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